[azar]

I've done a search through old posts but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. I've heard people talk about some of the differences between primers. Some say that Winchesters are "a little on the hot side", Federals are "a bit softer", and CCI are "a bit harder". Most of this just seems to be common knowledge among the reloading crowd.

This got me wondering what are the major differences that people believe exist between (large rifle) primers? What are the characteristics of each and what advantages/disadvantages is each one recognized to posses? I.e. If Winchester primers are commonly recognized as being "hotter" than other primers, what advantages or disadvantages does that entail? Etc...

In this case, I'm primarly concerned about large rifle primers, but if you feel the need to pipe in about small rifle or pistol primers feel free.

How would you classify and what advantages and disadvantages would you assign to:

Federal 210 Large Rifle
CCI #200 Large Rifle
Winchester WLR Large Rifle
Remington 9 1/2 Large Rifle
Magtech Large Rifle
Wolf Large Rifle

Thanks for any input/opinions you can give.

[USSR]

azar,

Below is the generally accepted order of "hotness" (hot to cool) of the primers you listed (with the exception of the MagTech, which I have never used):

Winchester WLR Large Rifle - Wolf Large Rifle
Federal 210 Large Rifle
CCI #200 Large Rifle - Remington 9 1/2 Large Rifle

Don

[azar]

USSR,

Thanks that's good to know. Could you tell me when is a "hotter" primer better?

[strat81]

Could you tell me when is a "hotter" primer better?
Generally, you'll use a hotter primer for stubborn to ignite powders (often ball) or in extreme cold. (i.e., sub-zero). However, I've used CCI Small Pistol in 20 degree Nebraska weather and did not have any noticeable problems. I've also used small rifle with ball powders (AA1680, H335) and had no problems either.

That being said, for the average reloader and shooter, the difference in "hotness" is academic and all large rifle (except magnum) primers are interchangeable.

If you're a benchrest shooter, this all goes out the window. If you're shooting a semi-auto, then primer cup hardness is more important.

[halvey]

The highpower guys have said the Magtech primers are harder. Not sure if they're hot or cool though.

[Walkalong]

The mildest primer that gives good ignition generally will give the best accuracy in rifles.

[Big Boomer]

HEY! Hit that "what primer has the harder cup" thing again!

This is actually important to me!

Please let me know, Winchester, CCI, Federal who?

[halvey]

HEY! Hit that "what primer has the harder cup" thing again!

This is actually important to me!

Please let me know, Winchester, CCI, Federal who?
Of these 3
CCI - hardest
Winchester
Federal

[mjrodney]

Grant Cunningham, a prominent revolver smith on the West Coast, suggested to me that Federals were the softest, Winchester was slightly harder and CCI the hardest.

He confirmed this, in part, by test firing revolvers that have had their hammer/trigger springs lightened by customer request, like one of my bride's range guns.

Some lightened spring combos would reliably touch off the Federal or Winchester primers, but become ify with the CCI primers.

I reload using Winchester and all is well in that handgun.

[Linear Thinker]

From personal experience: Federal primer cups are softer than other makes. Switching from CCI to Federal resulted in one of my semi-auto rifles with a floating firing pin to go full-auto on a public range. This got me all kinds of attention, not of the kind I like to get. I switched to CCI #34 immediately afterwards.
LT

[azar]

I was getting low on primers and the stores around here that carry them have been sold old. I finally found someone within 30 miles that had some large rifle primers (Winchester) in stock and drove down to get a box yesterday. I now have 1000 Winchester WLR primers, so loading can continue. :)

However, I did a quick perusal through the Loadbook U.S.A. for 6.5x55 SE and it appears as if the majority of the loads favor the Remington 9 1/2 primer, followed by Federal and CCI, and finally Winchester. But I haven't noticed a lot of people here who talk about using the Remington 9 1/2. What are peoples opinions of them? Do they seat easily? Are they reliable? Are the considered harder or softer? And are they, as USSR said, commonly believed to be "cooler" much like CCI?

Anything you can tell me about them I'd appreciate.

[mc223]

There are mixed photos of large and small primers on this link. Interesting when discussing "hottness" of primers.

http://usera.imagecave.com/PCSNaples/Primers/

[azar]

Thanks mc223, that is quite interesting. From those photos the Remington 9 1/2 doesn't look to "cool" to me! But maybe the picture is misleading.

Anyone able to answer the questions about the Remington 9 1/2?

[azar]

No one? No one at all? Nobody uses or has used the Remington 9 1/2? If so, what can you tell me about it?

[RustyFN]

From hard to soft I have always heard CCI, Win, Rem then Fed. Check out this http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html link, I think you will find it interesting.
Rusty

[rbernie]

I found this a while back; I can't recall where.

Small Rifle

Cup Thickness Diameter Height
CCI 400 . .020" .1753" .109"
CCI 450 . .025" .1750" .113"
CCI BR4 .025" .1755" .109"
Federal 200 .019" .1757" .111"
Federal 205M .0225" .1744" .1075"
Remington 6 ½ .020" .1753" .109"
Remington 7 1/2 .025" .1752" .110"
Winchester SR .021" .1750" .109"

Large Rifle
Cup Thickness Diameter Height
CCI 200 .027" .2112" .118"
CCI 250 .027" .2113" .118"
Federal 210 .027" .2120" .117"
Remington 9 1/2 .027" .2100" .119"
Winchester LR .027" .2114" .121"

Brand/type Power Average Range Std. Dev
1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12 5.23-6.8 .351
2 Federal 215 LRM 5.69 5.2-6.5 .4437
3 CCI 250 LRM 5.66 4.5-7.4 .4832
4 Winchester WLRM 5.45 5.1-6.0 .2046
5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM 5.09 3.5-6.75 .6641
6 Winchester WLR 4.8 4.1-6.0 .4300
7 Remington 9 1/2 LR 4.75 3.7-6.25 .5679
8 Fed Match GM210M 4.64 4.0-5.6 .3296
9 Federal 210 LR 4.62 3.7-5.5 .3997
10 CCI BR2 4.37 4.0-5.0 .2460
11 CCI 200 LR 4.28 3.8-4.8 .3218
12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27 3.8-4.8 .2213
13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old) 4.16 3.8-4.8 .3427
14 Rem LP 4.47 3.2-5.6 .5171
15 KVB 45 LP Russian 3.89 3.3-4.2 .2232
16 CCI 300 LP 3.18 2.7-3.5 .2406
17 Federal 150 LP 3.11 2.6-3.5 .2090
18 Fed Match GM150M 3.05 2.6-3.7 .2299

[azar]

Rusty and Rbernie,

Thank you both for the information! Both posts were very helpful.

Have any of you used Remington 9 1/2? Do you prefer them (or avoid them) for any particular reason? I was just a bit surprised when I noticed that they are the baseline primer for a lot of loads for the 6.5x55 when I don't hear much talk about them here.

[USSR]

azar,

I use the Russian KVB-7 primer for my 6.5x55 LR loads. The low SD's on rbernie's chart tell the story.

Don

[azar]

Where can you find the Russian KVB-7 primers?

Oh, and I googled for that information that rbernie provided. I found some of it (or at least something similar) here:

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm*

(*I will not be held responsible for information provided by a 3rd party).

[azar]

And this is probably the other location where got the information on primer thickness.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

Maybe I should have started with google! :D

[ArchAngelCD]

azar,
I use, and have used Winchester, CCI and Federal primers in the past. I really haven't found a difference between the three when shooting but I'm sure there is a difference. Like everyone else I've found Federal primers hard to find in large quantities lately. CCI primers can be a little tough to seat in some brass. I've found Winchester primers easy to seat without having a problem of them being too loose. I've never had one fail to fire either. I find myself buying only Winchester primers lately and will do so in the future. As a matter of fact, I also like to use Winchester brass. When I load Winchester Brass and use a Winchester primer I seem to get my most accurate ammo. (especially .38 Special using W231 powder) I don't really care for Remington Brass either.

BTW, you can add me to the list of people who have never used a Remington primer.

[USSR]

Where can you find the Russian KVB-7 primers?


azar,

The Russian company that made the KVB-7 primers is now making Wolf brand primers.

Don

[azar]

USSR - Thanks I was going to ask that. That's good to know. Too bad I've only ever seen them online. I don't order in large enough quantities to make the hazmat fees worth it.

What about Magtech's? Does Magtech contract out to a 3rd party to make them (say CCI) and just slap their name on them or do they make them themselves? And how do they compare to the others?

[USSR]

What about Magtech's? Does Magtech contract out to a 3rd party to make them (say CCI) and just slap their name on them or do they make them themselves? And how do they compare to the others?

I believe MagTech ammo and components are made by CBC, a Brazilian company. I have never used them.

Don