Questions about Carbines


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Arsyx
October 12, 2007, 06:39 PM
Just recently I made a post asking about the FNH Five-SeveN that raised another question for me. Within the post I was given links which proved the 5.7 performed better in the PS90 than the Five-SeveN pistol. Which made me think, would this be true with other calibers such as the 9mm and 45ACP? Would there be any advantage to keeping a carbine for home defense purposes?

By the way, if this is in the wrong forum I apologize in advance. Just move it where ever it needs to be.

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strat81
October 12, 2007, 06:45 PM
Yes, generally, the longer the barrel, the better velocity you get from a cartridge, given everything else is the same.

IMO, if you're going to use a carbine for HD, use a rifle caliber. However, they are more expensive, as is the ammo. There are other considerations such as availability, legality, capacity, etc.

PercyShelley
October 12, 2007, 06:49 PM
This is probably going to get moved to the rifle forum, but no big deal.

Yes, pistol calibers do perform better in rifle-length barrels. Specifically, the longer barrel provides more distance over which the hot gases from the gunpowder can accelerate the bullet.

At the KTOG forums, people were showing 100 FPS gains in velocity with the longer barrels of their SUB2000 carbines versus pistols shooting the same ammunition. With special handloaded ammunition using longer-burning powders, some people were pushing towards 200 FPS gains IIRC.

I have yet to chrono my Cx4 storm carbine versus a 1911, but I suspect that it flings the lead a good 90 FPS faster, if not more.

As for home defense, it's unlikely that you'll ever get more disagreement on any topic. There is, in short, no universally accepted ideal home defense gun.

That said, the pistol caliber carbine does have some things going for it:

1) Low recoil

2) Quiet, for an unsuppressed firearm

3) Light

4) Short

GRIZ22
October 12, 2007, 06:52 PM
You're going to pick up 100-200 fps in either caliber going to a carbine length barrel. The only round I know of that loses velocity is the 147gr subsonic 9mm. It actually lost 30-75 fps in a carbine barrel depending on which carbine it was fired in.

Arsyx
October 12, 2007, 06:55 PM
Wow, fast responses thanks guys. Yeah the sub-sonic thing makes sense. When I played paintball as a kid lengthy barrels adding "drag" to the ball was always a large concern due to their already low velocity. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume it's the same case with the sub sonic rounds?

PercyShelley
October 12, 2007, 07:00 PM
Presumably, yes. If you've ever had to get a stuck bullet out of a barrel, you surely will notice the enormous amount of friction between the bore and the bullet.

The reduced powder charge of a subsonic round doesn't produce enough pressure to get a net velocity gain out of the additional barrel length.

The same thing happens with .22 rimfire rounds past a certain barrel length.

Arsyx
October 12, 2007, 07:04 PM
Funny you mention that. A few years ago I tried to fire some Remington sub-sonic HP .22LR's through a rifle and the rounds would fail to eject every shot. Not only that but the trajectory was pretty terrible compared to my high power rounds.

zinj
October 12, 2007, 07:13 PM
Funny you mention that. A few years ago I tried to fire some Remington sub-sonic HP .22LR's through a rifle and the rounds would fail to eject every shot.

That was probably due to the crummy quality of most Remington rimfire ammo than shooting it in a rifle.

revjen45
October 12, 2007, 07:45 PM
A carbine in a pistol caliber is just a handgun you can't conceal.

Thain
October 12, 2007, 07:59 PM
Here's my stupid question about carbines... How is it pronounced?

I've always said car-byne, sounds like with "nine" or kinda like the first part of "bind." But I've also heard car-bean, sounds like, well, "bean."

TexasRifleman
October 12, 2007, 08:04 PM
I always say carbine car-bean

But on the farm I used to drive a combine com-byne so who the heck knows...

Arsyx
October 12, 2007, 08:06 PM
With a look at dictionary.com both ways seem acceptable however I think Kahr-Been sounds totally ridiculous.

JamisJockey
October 12, 2007, 08:19 PM
The other issue is the three-points-of-contact. A properly held rifle or carbine will be more accurate than a pistol even at shorter range. Also takes a caliber like .357 or .45 and makes it more useful out to about 50-100 yards. Pistol caliber carbines are fine defensive weapons.

gyp_c2
October 12, 2007, 08:22 PM
...if you're gonna' use a carbean, 5.56 is a very versatile round...:evil:
http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

hamourkiller
October 12, 2007, 08:34 PM
The 9mm and 45ACP class rounds do not gain much in performance from a carbine bbl length. This is due to the types of powder they use, it burns to fast to make full use of the extra bbl length.
The .357 Mag-.41 Mag-.44 Mag class of cartridge gains considerably from the extra bbl length, due to the slower burning powders used. My experience has been that these pistol rounds out of an 18" rifle bbl will average between 1750 to 1850 FPS with 158gr/210gr/240gr bullets. The lighter ones will average even higher. Out of a revolver they average between 1250 & 1350 FPS.
A Marlin 1894 in .357 or larger caliber will make a devestating defensive rifle for the house.
Since the days of the Wild West, a common cartridge for your rifle and pistol has been a great idea and still is.

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