[MCgunner]

Anyone try American Pioneer Powder? I'm wondering if it is really clean enough for "endless shooting?"

[Old No7]

How about...

45 shots (without swabbing) from a T/C Cherokee in .45 caliber, and it looked like it had only fired 3 shots of Pyrodex... Now THAT'S clean!!!

Cleans up really easy too!

After that extended range session, I used T/C bore cleaner only-- first time ever without Murphy's oil soap & hot water -- and it was as easy as cleaning a .22 with Shooter's Choice!

Just not sure if it smokes as much, but I have heard some concerns that it's not repeatable from jug to jug. For plinking that's probably OK, but you might want to recheck your load/accuracy for hunting purposes.

Tight groups!

Old No7

[ruger_martin_mastermag]

I use the powder all te time. Works wonderful

[alsaqr]

Last fall i killed a deer at 160 yards with 90 grains of JSG and the 250 grain SST with my Encore. Later i killed a 125 pound sow at over 190 yards with the same load. Works for me.

[MCgunner]

I guess I'm going to have to wait until I'm in Katy to try it. I notice it's sold in Bay City at a gun shop there, about 50 miles away, and at the Bass Pro at Katy Mills Mall about 120 miles away, but I get over to Katy more often than I do Bay City. But, I'm definitely going to get a pound to play with. I'm sure it's expensive, most of that magic BP substitute other than Pyrodex, is. But, I'll play with my hawkin more if I ain't gotta scrub the bore with soapy water every three shots. :banghead:

[Mark whiz]

I shot quite a bit of the old Clean Shot version of the stuff with good success. What I found with it was:
1. It IS very clean - firing up to 50rds at the range without anything more than a spit patch - and up to 12 rds with nothing in between.
2. It is a little weaker than Black or Pyrodex - needing about 10gr more powder to be equivalent.
3. It is a LOT weaker than Triple Se7en powder needing about 20gr more powder for an equivalent shot.
4. It has a Bad tendency to absorb moisture from the air - literally going bad overnight one time on me.


#4 is what caused me to switch to Triple Se7en - I just won't take a chance when I only have 1 shot to make it count.

[Kimber1911_06238]

It shoots ok at the range, but wouldn't trust it hunting. The packages of powder and sticks come with dessicant packs in them. This stuff absorbs water like crazy. I loaded a charge in my muzzleloader and left it in my basement overnight (which i frequently do before hunting. Brought it outside into 20 degree weather....the condensation was enough to require 3 209 primers to fire and the shot was only strong enough to shoot the bullet about 50 yards. I can't trust that when muzzleloader season in CT frequently has freezing rain, sleet, and snow.

Back to old reliable pyrodex pellets.

[TexasRifleman]

I have used it at the range in FFFG in my revolvers. It's cleaner but a lot less powerful.

I like it though.

[MCgunner]

Hmm, well, sounds like I'll stick with Pyrodex for hunting, but this stuff might be okay for range work. I don't know, though. It's VERY humid down here most of the year. If I lived in New Mexico or something, I might be a little less worried about it. Sounds like it wouldn't have a lot of shelf life even if kept inside down here in the gulf coast soup. I just get real tired of the cleaning routine with pyrodex.

Thanks for the info!

[Burt Blade]

I have burned at least a case of American Pioneer Powder in my cap-n-ball revolvers. It works.

[dwave]

Weak stuff, but accuracy seemed alright in my 1851 Navy. I didn't like it in my Pedersoli Frontier rifle, it seemed to get real hard at the end of the barrel.

[MCgunner]

So, as an alternative, is triple 7 any cleaner burning than pyrodex? I've heard it's real touch about how you pack it down and can give wild gyrations in pressure. Beyond that, I don't know much about it. I'm thinkin' it's just another sulfur containing substitute, though, and as such, would be just as dirty and corrosive. Anyone set me straight on this stuff?????

[alsaqr]

"So, as an alternative, is triple 7 any cleaner burning than pyrodex?"
"Anyone set me straight on this stuff?????"

Gunner, my experience with 777 in two guns shows it to be much dirtier than Pyrodex RS. My guns are harder to clean after firing 777. The crud that is left in the bore is very hard to get out: i often have to use a bronze bore brush. The crud that is left in the receiver of my CVA gun is caked and very hard to get out.

[Mark whiz]

I can't I've really noticed 777 being noticeably dirtier than pyro, just that the residue may be a little harder possibly - but that is more with my rifle than with my 1858.

It can be a little sensitive to loading pressure in a revolver. I've chronographed several cylinders worth and found over 100fps difference in shots if I wasn't real careful while loading. In my rifle this really hasn't been an issue as I've gotten very nice consistent groups and velocity readings.

I have heard tale of the issue alsaqr mentioned - often times this is associated with 209 primers and 100+gr powder loads in rifles - which is why a couple manufacturers are now marketing a 209 primer specifically for use with 777 powder.

[mykeal]

So, as an alternative, is triple 7 any cleaner burning than pyrodex? I've heard it's real touch about how you pack it down and can give wild gyrations in pressure. Beyond that, I don't know much about it. I'm thinkin' it's just another sulfur containing substitute, though, and as such, would be just as dirty and corrosive. Anyone set me straight on this stuff?????

'Real touch(y)' and 'wild gyrations in pressure'? No. Complete exaggerations. A more accurate statement might be, 'a little more sensitive to inconsistent packing technique than regular black powder'.

And frankly, I found it very easy to clean with no residual fouling in either my in-line or my cap & ball muzzleloaders. Of course, I don't shoot 100+ grain loads - I shoot the most accurate load for each gun. So I probably can't speak to the issue when using heavy loads.

[alsaqr]

"which is why a couple manufacturers are now marketing a 209 primer specifically for use with 777 powder."

I've fired 100, Winchester 777 primers and 100, Remington 777 primers in my muzzleloaders and IMO they create a worse crud problem than regular shotgun problems.

[MCgunner]

Mmm, well, I'm going to pick up some of that American Pioneer powder I guess and keep it in my shooting box and maybe buy some desiccant for the box. I keep the box inside the AC, so maybe it'll last me a while like that. I'll just use it for range shooting and load pyrodex for serious work.

Thanks for all the replies. Seems like the perfect substitute hasn't been invented, yet. Pyrodes works and is cheap. It's just the scrubbing routine at the range that bothers me. Hunting, one shot, maybe two at most in a day, no big deal, come home or back to camp and clean it up.

[Mark whiz]

MCgunner,

Another alternative for keeping the powder dry is to get one of those vacuum sealers used for leftovers, freezing, etc. I've heard tale of several people doing that with their American Pioneer with good results. They would split a pound of powder 5 or 6 ways and bag them seperately so you only had to open what you needed at the time.
I never went to such extremes to buy one of those sealers - but if I had already owned one, I would have tried it in a heartbeat.

[alsaqr]

Gunner, i'm going to put a big dessicant bag in the next can of JSG i buy: Will also put the powder can inside a .50 caliber can with dessicant. That should do it.

[MCgunner]

The vacuum seal thing is an interesting idea. I don't have one, though. Wonder if they sell 'em at Walmart? I could use one anyway when it comes time to butcher a deer or hog this season. I usually wrap with freezer paper and it works fine, but the vacuum seal might keep the meat longer, keep it from freezer burning, though I'm cooking my next to last venison roast from last year today, LOL. I mean, ain't like I'd be buying it just for powder. :D