Sniper Log Book


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steverjo
October 13, 2007, 03:14 AM
I am tossing around the idea of getting a sniper log book, but I am not sure if it would really help me or not. I am shooting a Tikka T3 Tactical, 24" barrel .308 caliber. Burris Xtreme Tactical 3-12x50mm scope. I usually do not check the tempurature, humidity or altitude when shooting. I use this rifle for target shooting, I have a .30-'06 for hunting and target. Any ideas? Should i get one? What would I record in it?

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possum
October 13, 2007, 03:20 AM
the tactical tailor log book is a good one. i don't worry about humidity and altitude much either as i am at the same range when i shoot it, if it was a question that could be found out real quick on line. but i do believe that it is important to right down, ammo used, grains, bulllet type, lot number, poi and poa in regards to the original zero if using different ammo than what you zeroed with. i also like to record group sizes and dates. and round count of course.

Sunray
October 13, 2007, 04:11 AM
It won't be a 'sniper' anything. It'll just be a log book with the load data, distances, weather conditions('hot and humid' or 'cold and dry' is enough), number of rounds fired, etc. Serious target shooters do this all the time.

possum
October 13, 2007, 05:23 AM
i can't believ that i left out range!
i suck again!

nwilliams
October 13, 2007, 05:06 PM
It won't be a 'sniper' anything.

I agree....

Be careful how you through around the term "sniper" I've heard all the anti's heads pop up at once and they begin snifing the air whenever civilians utter that word. Even on this forum I've seen a lot of people take flack for calling their guns "sniper rifles", "tactical" seems to be more politically correct apparently.


Anyway, what you will have is a shooters log book, very common, I have one.

xd45gaper
October 13, 2007, 05:17 PM
It won't be a 'sniper' anything. It'll just be a log book with the load data, distances, weather conditions('hot and humid' or 'cold and dry' is enough), number of rounds fired, etc. Serious target shooters do this all the time.


+1

lol you are not a sniper, why would you need a "SNIPER" log book? now if you where a marine sniper and you had a log book whatever you will prolly need a "SNIPER" log book, but if you are just shooting targets you dont really need a "SNIPER" log book since you are not a SNIPER, you might want a LOG BOOK, but i see no use for a "SNIPER" log book.

what would you put in a sniper log book btw?
"Sniper log 103"
Shoot at the target again today hit it 4 out of 5 times, wind 3mph @170 time of day 1336, temp 23c, range 100 yards, from bench....

ive never understood why people think they have a "SNIPER" this or that unless you are police or military or a rogue villian shooting people you are not a freaking sniper give it up. whats wrong with the term bench rest shooter or target shooter????

RLsnow
October 13, 2007, 05:23 PM
holy macarony, you guys are harsh!!

but a log book is always good, i need to get one for my going to the gym :P

MechAg94
October 13, 2007, 06:28 PM
Not so harsh. I get a little tired of the over-use of popular military terms. A long range shooter is not a sniper. A scoped rifle is not a sniper rifle. There is a whole lot more that goes into a military sniper.

I don't care for tactical either. Anything non-traditional or with a synthetic stock is called tactical. It is overused. :)

Clipper
October 13, 2007, 06:59 PM
'Sniper' and 'Tactical' are terms for wannabes. Go join up and become a real one. You're a marksman if you're a good shot with your target rifle that has an all-weather stock and/or finish...

USSR
October 13, 2007, 07:31 PM
Guys,

Take a pill. We knew what he meant and wanted. If you've got info to give him, then fine, but there's no sense in getting all bent out of shape over semantics.

Don

JW74
October 13, 2007, 07:44 PM
Why not call it a "range log" or range journal". That's what I call mine as that is exactly what it is for me.

Tully M. Pick
October 13, 2007, 07:45 PM
Can someone answer his question, or not? I'd like to find a good log book, too.

nwilliams
October 13, 2007, 09:50 PM
I have to agree, before this gets out of hand lets forgive the poor guy for using the word sniper and try to give him some solid advice.

My apologies for nitpicking you sir....back to topic

nbkky71
October 13, 2007, 10:25 PM
Don't confuse a data book and a log book. A log book is used to keep track of the weapon's history, such as the number of rounds fired, weapon maintenance, etc.

A data book is used to keep an accurate log of shooting conditions for future reference. It's used to track light conditions, wind conditions, temp, mirage, bullet impact, ammunition fired, shot values, etc. . In short, a data book contains all the information required to allow a rifleman to get a first-round hit in almost all conditions.

Having a good data book requires that you put good data into it to begin with. The more meticulous you are, the better off you are in the long run.

possum
October 13, 2007, 10:50 PM
Can someone answer his question, or not? I'd like to find a good log book, too.
did you see my reply? i answered as a matter of fact i was the first to respond, don't worry about the name calling bs i knew what you needed and there it is.

steverjo
October 14, 2007, 01:00 AM
Possum, thanks for the info. The rest of you guys are worse than me. I "may" have misused a term (but that is how the books are advertised so i used the same term for clarity), but you guys have gone over the edge. Are all gun owners as snobby and unforgiving as you are? If so, maybe I should sell my firearms and start some other hobby.

Sunray
October 14, 2007, 01:17 AM
"...like to find a good log book, too..." Office Depot or any office supply place will have lots of notebooks. Cheap. So will Walmart. Anything made specifically for shooting or any other hobby will be the same thing, but cost more.
"...terms for wannabes...." The term 'tactical' is a marketing buzz word. The old one is 'Police'. We sold all kinds of Winchester Model 70A Police .308 rifles in the shop I worked in long ago. Not a bad rifle either. Black phosphated steel with an oil finished stock.

Tully M. Pick
October 14, 2007, 01:28 AM
did you see my reply? i answered as a matter of fact i was the first to respond, don't worry about the name calling bs i knew what you needed and there it is.

Thanks, possum. I didn't mean to ignore that, I was just wondering if there were other alternatives. I'll look into it and see if it's something I could use.

ChadCD
October 14, 2007, 01:31 AM
Sniper Central has their sniperstore with the Sniper Central Logbook (http://www.snipercentral.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28) that may meet your needs.

Chad

Logan5
October 14, 2007, 01:57 AM
Well, basically you're talking about what we called a "shooter's diary" back when "tactical" was just another snake cult? No need to shell out. What you need is your basic small spiral notebook, and a pen. The trick is to always have it when you go to the range. (the notebook dosen't matter, it's your consistency in entering data) Probably it should live in your glove box.
Back in my day, you'd enter something like "R-12 was checked out, pulled R-14, came 3 clicks right and 5 clicks up to bull, 180/200. Conditions: Rain of frogs, mild brimstone. Note: Hate this POS, want R-14 back. Come earlier next week."
Logging performance and conditions is a good thing, but you don't need a tactical notebook. Whatever is on sale at CVS and pocket sized is going to be perfectly fine.

Kimber1911_06238
October 14, 2007, 10:45 AM
how about a notebook? You could write anything you want in there.

Seancass
October 14, 2007, 01:25 PM
go buy a regular small notebook. go to a gun store and look at a Shooters log book. write down all the catagories that it has on the inside cover of the notebook. then you can write down the stuff in the same order on every page and not pay for an over priced notebook from the gun store.

garrett1955
October 14, 2007, 03:59 PM
I put everything on a note book while I'm at the range, when I get home all my data goes into an excel spread sheet where I can manipulate it there. doing it this way also makes it real easy to see what is going on and it's organized.

cpttango30
October 14, 2007, 04:01 PM
I use a mead sprial note book. I have one for each rifle I shoot. I take it when I take that rifle. I note Bullet, bullet weight, powder and weight, case, primer, and speed if I am shooting over the chrony for every shot taken I will also note weather condition day and time I was shooting. I do not worry about writing down when how and what I do to clean my rifles.

When I get home I then enter all the data collected into a MC Excel spread sheat that I made up to do the conversions of SD, Extream Spread, High speed, Low speed. Then I print that out and tape it to the page I used. I will also note group size for each different load fired.

If you want a Sniper log book then by all means go and get one. If you want a log book tailored to what data you are going to enter then make them in MS Word. If you are cheap and want to spend more money on bullets and powder then by all means go with the 97 cent sprial note book like a few of us did.

Will Learn
October 14, 2007, 05:24 PM
I use a spiral note book to record/calculate all the variables.
Bullet BC:
Bullet weight:
Powder weight:
Case:
Primer:
# of shots in group:
Wind drift:
Range:
Altitude:
Barrel length:
Slope up/down:
Coriolis effect(haha yeah right):

Did I miss anything?

rodregier
October 14, 2007, 05:47 PM
If you're cheap, a small "Rite in the Rain" spiral notebook is a good choice.
(Darling #935)

http://www.constructionbook.com/rite-in-rain-tactical-shirt-pocket-pad-935/land-surveying/

Uniball pen is a nice complement, gives a writing system that won't "bleed" if it gets wet.

http://www.uniball-na.com/main.taf?p=9

js1983p
August 7, 2008, 12:57 PM
Most of those replies were ridiculous. I never have posted a thread in my life. But seeing how big of jerks most people were to your reply, I had to.

I second the guy above me. Rite in the Rain is perfect. It is very popular among snipers because if you're out in the field and the weather gets bad, your log book won't get ruined. I like their's best as the basis for a Sniper Marksmanship Record Book.

http://www.riteintherain.com/

I order the spiral bound notebook 5x7 in cammo with blank desert tan pages to go in it.

Now, you have blank pages to print on them exactly what you want. Since you're asking, I assume you don't know what you want/need on the pages. Here are some good templates:

http://www.oregonshooter.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_5

I personally custom make my own based on the design Major Plaster produced for his landmark sniper textbook The Ultimate Sniper. I scan his templates in then use Photoshop to change them to what I really want.

Custom is better than one you would buy already put together. That way my template fits my shooting for that day: be it target, a hostage drill, a moving target, or some other crazy concoction. It's more professional than having one basic template you have to mark up for each different situation.

Hope this helps. Don't let jerks get you down.

dmazur
August 8, 2008, 04:14 AM
I do everything with 3x5 cards.

While I use them for other things, they also work as a range log, to keep track of loads, group size, etc. and I generally use one card per rifle.

When I get back home I transfer the data to an Excel spreadsheet, then toss the cards.

wideym
August 8, 2008, 07:29 AM
How is keeping a logbook going to help the average joe who doesn't custom load rounds or has a used rifle with who knows how many rounds through it?

If you load your own then it would be an invaluable resource to perfect the best load for your rifle. If on the other hand you use commercial ammo, it would probably be a waste of time unless you want to keep a round count.

For me a logbook will just be something else I forgot to pack to the range.

taliv
August 8, 2008, 10:21 AM
log books aren't just for keeping round counts.

they store data like, last winter, when it was 30* and I took a bunch of shots at a target 600yrds away in bright sun, what dope did i use? and then when i shoot at that target in the spring, and then the summer, what dope?

and how does your POI change when you put the suppressor on, or what's your dope when you have to take the optics off and go to BUIS?

and what was the dope on those cheap surplus rounds, and how different was it from your handloads, or from winchester whitebox?

at some point, having a log book will help you get first round hits without needing a ton of sighters and wasting your friends' time spotting for you

EShell
August 8, 2008, 06:04 PM
Information
Most of those replies were ridiculous. I never have posted a thread in my life. But seeing how big of jerks most people were to your reply, I had to.

I second the guy above me. Rite in the Rain is perfect. It is very popular among snipers because if you're out in the field and the weather gets bad, your log book won't get ruined. I like their's best as the basis for a Sniper Marksmanship Record Book.

http://www.riteintherain.com/

I order the spiral bound notebook 5x7 in cammo with blank desert tan pages to go in it.

Now, you have blank pages to print on them exactly what you want. Since you're asking, I assume you don't know what you want/need on the pages. Here are some good templates:

http://www.oregonshooter.com/cart/in...ndex&cPath=1_5

I personally custom make my own based on the design Major Plaster produced for his landmark sniper textbook The Ultimate Sniper. I scan his templates in then use Photoshop to change them to what I really want.

Custom is better than one you would buy already put together. That way my template fits my shooting for that day: be it target, a hostage drill, a moving target, or some other crazy concoction. It's more professional than having one basic template you have to mark up for each different situation.

Hope this helps. Don't let jerks get you down.
Dammit man, I'm right there with you on that. . . (and good first post, BTW).

Let 2,000 mall ninjas ask every f'n day about "what if" or "how can I" in any context of HD, SD, CCW, ammo lethality, "what the best zombie bullet" or "how do I Bubba my SKS" and 200 people fall all over themselves to answer, based on personal experience . . .

This guy just wants to know about tracking precision rifle data and we're all of a sudden worried about semantics and qualifications and who might be looking on . . . talk about submitting to "divide and conquer". More like eating our own.

Let whoever might be looking on realize that what we are doing and talking about is perfectly legal, morally justifiable and a challenging and fascinating aspect of the shooting sports.

I shoot with military people and police all the time, and my daughter (OMG!!!) and I are heading to a tactical match next weekend, the Allegheny Sniper Challenge. This one is a benefit match for the WoundedWarriors.Org and AmericanSniper.Org and we're pleased to be a part of it. We're putting our money where our mouth is when it comes to actually supporting our troops, with real money and real service and not just trendy slogans and flag bumper stickers. We're carrying back packs, using mil dot reticles, our scopes have dials, our rifles are VERY scary looking and some of our targets look like torsos - so what?

How about we calm down and try not to forget that our second amendment rights don't cover duck hunting? Remember and understand that civilian tactical shooting is a viable and valuable method of keeping our country secure, probably more so than fantasy based suppressive fire by an SKS with a duckbill magazine and folding stock, or a vest full of AK mags, or a hi-cap CCW with 2 extra mags on our weak hip. Nobody whines about IPSC, or cowboy action shooting, but how much more "wannabe" does it get?

Just for spite:

http://www.pillicustomhomes.com/eshell/213/PrecisionHerd01s.jpg

And this one will really scare hell out of some of "us", my little girl:

http://www.pillicustomhomes.com/eshell/213/Rooftop1.jpg


[Sigh] . . . anyway . . . to the OP's question, the actual subject of the much shat-upon thread . . .

Rite-In-The-Rain rocks, and I use their products quite a bit. Most data books use RITR paper printed in their own format. I use their 3x5 spiral notebook to keep quickly accessible drop & drift data in my tac rifle's stock pack:

http://www.pillicustomhomes.com/eshell/213/Stock-Book-06sc.jpg

I use the Tactical Tailor modular data books and a more obscure, but more comprehensive, product by Flea/RebHawk. I just saw a VERY nice data book by a Canadian outfit, V-Bull, that I'd like to try as well: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=696284&gonew=1#UNREAD

use a spiral note book to record/calculate all the variables.
Bullet BC:
Bullet weight:
Powder weight:
Case:
Primer:
# of shots in group:
Wind drift:
Range:
Altitude:
Barrel length:
Slope up/down:
Coriolis effect(haha yeah right):
You've right, a spiral notebook WILL do it all, just needs to be weatherproof. You've got it all and then some . . .

For tracking field data, I'd suggest leaving the technical data out of it, and keeping that in a binder at home with the reloading gear & data.

What you really need are several groups of information.

First is a way to identify the rifle, optics and ammo used, to prevent confusing that with different loads or outfits:
1) The caliber & last four digits will identify the rifle.
2) The scope model/serial will do for optics.
Note: The scope S/N may seem overboard, but optics problems can surface and I have several scope that are similar that might be moved form gun to gun and if one of them tracks funny, I need a way to isolate it.
3) The load info. Simple reference/lot number & bullet weight is good, as long as you know exactly what that references back to at the reloading room.

Next, we need to track local and atmospheric info:
1) Location.
Oddly enough, sight setting will be affected by location, whether it be by anomalous winds, terrain induced thermals, whatever. I know (now) that my data from Quantico's Range 4 will never agree with data form the several other places I shoot to and beyond 1k, so knowing the data was shot at Quantico allows me to disregard it from the average.
2) Light direction & intensity.
3) Wind direction and speed.
Note: Both of these parameters should be tracked for every shot. Light affect long range POI and changes throughout the day. Wind changes constantly.
Record ALL identifiable winds. At long ranges, we will often have one wind at the firing point, one wind at midrange, and yet another, different wind at the target. They ALL matter.
4) Temperature.
Temperature affects muzzle velocity and air density. Trajectories will be flatter at higher temps for both of these reasons.
5) Air density.
Air density is a product of temperature, altitude, barometric pressure, and to a much lesser extent, humidity. Tracking each individually, and trying to relate that to the actual air density that the bullet sees in flight can become tedious and confusing. The expression "density altitude" combines these relevant factors and renders a value equal to the altitude you'd be under "standard conditions". I use a kestrel 4000 to monitor density altitude and forget everything else but temperature.

Then we need to preface and record our results.
1) Range
2) Departure angle
3) Call (where the crosshairs were when the shot broke)
4) Predicted elevation required
5) Actual elevation needed
6) Predicted windage required
7) Windage actually needed

By creating a convenient format, or using a pre-formatted data book, and carefully tracking this information, we build "DOPE" (data of previous engagements). This dope will allow us to make real time corrections. We can use the records to prove that our ballistic data is affected by certain conditions.

I generate ballistic charts with Sierra Infinity, transcribe it to my 3x5 notepad , and mark results in my data book. Later, I review my data book, and change my notepad as required. I have often been able to fine tune ballistic coefficients to very closely match my actual trajectory and rely less on published data and/or computer generated predictions.

Karl Hungus
August 8, 2008, 09:29 PM
Wow. Threads like this are a perfect example of PC Thought Control. "Don't you gun nuts dare offend me by using scary words like 'sniper'!". If we cave in to every whim of anti-freaks, they've won.

I keep a log book for my long-range rifle. If somebody wants to call it a "sniper log" that's ok. Date, time, location, ammo specs, temp, humidity, cloud cover, wind, range, angle, topography, shooting position, groups, count, sometimes a bird's eye sketch, and anything else I feel like writing down.

I also have two ghillie suits and often shoot at human silhouette targets, so I guess I'm a horrible person.:rolleyes:

MIL-DOT
August 9, 2008, 09:28 AM
Back when i was into playing with my SNIPER rifle ( a Remington 700 PSS with Leupold M4 mil-dot & Harris bi-pod.......like i said,SNIPER rifle) I would log info in my SNIPER data book ( I know it's a SNIPER data book because, well, it says " Sniper Data Book" right there on the cover!). I got it from U.S. Tactical Supply,Inc. It's exactly what you're looking for, I believe. It has all that nifty SNIPER info you're looking for on several reference pages,including conversion tables,range estimation,angle fire,deviations from zero,windage formulas,angle of movement,etc.( all that dreaded sniper knowledge) ) and tons of data sheets for recording your shots, all in a handy, user freindly, water-resistant spiral bound format.
Hope this helped. :D
oh wait !! Here it is now !!!! http://www.ustacticalsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=211

Zak Smith
August 15, 2008, 07:12 PM
I recommend the generic Rite in the Rain notebooks.

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