7.62 x 51 Carbine Platform for HD


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Timradcliffe345
October 15, 2007, 07:17 PM
I've settled on 7.62 x 51 as a the optimum carbine caliber fitting my needs. Now I just need to figure out what platform to launch it from...:rolleyes:

I need advice on a suitable carbine chambered in 308/7.62 NATO and that is utterly reliable. Magazine capacity should be no less than 20 rds and barrel length should be between 16 and 20 inches. Again, reliability is the most important factor for me. Feel free to share your experiences, positive and negative, with carbines in 7.62 NATO. Thank you.

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cameron.personal
October 15, 2007, 07:25 PM
DSA SA58 PARA Tactical Carbine
.308 Win Chamber
16.25" barrel
Magpul CTR LOP adjustable side folding stock
Optic is an IOR 1.1-4 illuminated CQB reticle and I have an EOTech for it too...

It weighs about the same as my 14.5" AR15

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb25/tacticallyspeaking/Rifles/DSA%20SA58%20Para/DSASA58IORCTR01.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb25/tacticallyspeaking/Rifles/DSA%20SA58%20Para/DSASA58IORCTR02.jpg

Kentucky
October 15, 2007, 07:26 PM
I'll probably be the only one in this post to suggest this, but if money is a concern get a CETME. Less than $500, reliable, mags are dirt cheap. Matter of fact, you can have two of them and a bunch of mags for less than a FAL.

Edit: If money is NOT an object the post above would be awesome, and a DSA FAL is the way I would go to :)

cameron.personal
October 15, 2007, 07:31 PM
You get what you pay for... while the DSA above is relatively more money than other rifles, I have a friend that picked up a decent FAL shortie for $600.

Cameron

HorseSoldier
October 15, 2007, 07:33 PM
+1 on the DSA Para idea if 7.62x51 is the caliber of choice.

FR Baseball
October 15, 2007, 07:48 PM
DPMS LAR-308T

http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=17

Timradcliffe345
October 15, 2007, 08:04 PM
DPMS LAR-308T


FR Baseball: What about the Panther LR-308AP4?

Timradcliffe345
October 15, 2007, 08:05 PM
DSA SA58 PARA Tactical Carbine
.308 Win Chamber
16.25" barrel
Magpul CTR LOP adjustable side folding stock
Optic is an IOR 1.1-4 illuminated CQB reticle and I have an EOTech for it too...

It weighs about the same as my 14.5" AR15

cameron.personal: How reliable are the FN/FAL models? Any countries that use them as their primary service weapon? Thanks.

El Tejon
October 15, 2007, 08:16 PM
At one time, over 90 nations used the FAL as their service weapon.

My DSAs have been outstanding. When they get dirty I adjust the gas and I have no problems (not that one would be firing 100s of rounds in a HD situation).

If you choose a .308 (where I live it is less than optimal for HD), ensure you have backstop and the training to manipulate the weapon.

jagdpanzer347
October 15, 2007, 09:08 PM
In my estimation a DSA FAL with a sixteen or eighteen inch barrel is the ideal platform for a 7.62 carbine. It's an awfully powerful round for HD though.

-jagd

DMK
October 15, 2007, 09:15 PM
I like the FAL mainly for it's ergonomics and it's reliability. Then again I also really like my 7.62x51 Garand for its accuracy and great sights. I'd suspect a M1A carbine would be a very nice weapon.

Whatever you get, here's the ammo you want for it:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/docgkr/myhomepage/308_TAP_comparison.jpg

DMK
October 15, 2007, 09:16 PM
Oops :o

DMK
October 15, 2007, 09:18 PM
%#@!* :rolleyes:

cameron.personal
October 15, 2007, 09:44 PM
cameron.personal: How reliable are the FN/FAL models? Any countries that use them as their primary service weapon? Thanks.

An FAL is probably one of the most reliable small arms in the world, it is known as "the right arm of the free world" and was used by more than 90 countries when the NATO small arms caliber was 7.62.

Hop over to www.falfiles.com (http://www.falfiles.com)and do a search for Ol' Dirty. A photographed study of an FAL in Texas that has 13,000+ rounds through it without being cleaned, except for being thrown in a pond occasionally.

The FAL's ergonomics, legendary reliability and power make it one of the best rifles available.

It was used by Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and on and on...

My DSA above has been 100% reliable with all types of ammo, regardless if I clean it or not (the gas system short stroke piston is adjustable, if it gets dirty or dusty, crank it up). It will also produce groups regularly below 1.5MOA with the right ammo. Mine lives on Federal America Eagle 150gr and Black Hills Match for groups.

The exhaust principle gas system and short stroke piston means the FAL is one of the softest shooting .308 carbines.

Here is the FAL above (weighing in at approx. 8.25lbs) fired for speed with 150gr FMJ .308 so you can see what I mean about the recoil.
Click the pictures they are videos.
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb25/tacticallyspeaking/Videos/Shooting/th_FALDoubleTaps.jpg (http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb25/tacticallyspeaking/Videos/Shooting/?action=view&current=FALDoubleTaps.flv)

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb25/tacticallyspeaking/Videos/Shooting/th_FALQuads.jpg (http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb25/tacticallyspeaking/Videos/Shooting/?action=view&current=FALQuads.flv)

Cameron

rbernie
October 15, 2007, 09:57 PM
Saiga in 308 converted back to AK configuration. The FBMG magazines aren't as cheap as FAL mags, but it's as accurate, likely no less reliable (considering its lineage) and I actually prefer it's handling/balance over that of the FAL.

strangelittleman
October 15, 2007, 10:05 PM
Cameron.Personal, that is a great set-up! I've not seen that stock on FAL TYPE folder before.....thanks buddy, now I've got DSA on the brain.....But seriously, how does the short gas piston perform compared to the Standard/ Para/Congo's gas system? Any concerns of accelerated parts wear, etc? I ask, because I'm thinking of getting the Congo or one of the other side folder compact types. thanks

EdLaver
October 15, 2007, 10:05 PM
DPMS AP4 gets my vote, its a couple hundred bucks cheaper than the DSA stuff and just as good.

LoadedDrum
October 15, 2007, 10:08 PM
I have both a FAL and a converted Saiga. I prefer the FAL because it kicks less.

Deer Hunter
October 15, 2007, 10:11 PM
If you're thinking about going the DSA route, but are afraide of the money involved, check out DSAs STG58 FN FALs. I bought mine around a year ago for just under $900, shipped.

RockyMtnTactical
October 15, 2007, 10:13 PM
It's hard to beat a Para FAL

cameron.personal
October 15, 2007, 10:41 PM
Ooops

everallm
October 15, 2007, 11:12 PM
I loved my old L1A1, now I would be tempted by JLD Enterprise PTR91, GŁ clone, very nice, built hard and available with the usual fixed, collapible etc stock.

Atlantic Arms have them in, but I'm sure GunBroker has them cheaper.

For cheap and reliable I'm told the Saiga AK in 7.62 NATO is good.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=1

Timradcliffe345
October 16, 2007, 12:38 AM
Thank you for all the great advice!

It seems as if the FAL, AR10, G3 and the DPMS AP4 are the main contenders in this race. Lots of hard choices coming up. :confused:

elmerfudd
October 16, 2007, 12:42 AM
I've had an FAL and a converted Saiga and I have to give the edge to the Saiga, but not by much. Accuracy wise they're about the same. The ergonomics of the FAL and it's sights are much better. Recoil doesn't seem that much different, but then I do have a brake on my Saiga and many people skip that part as it's the hardest part of the conversion. FAL's have much cheaper mags. There's really no contest there; $5 vs. $45. The initial cost of the FAL is much greater though. You can get into a Saiga for around $350 and you're probably going to shell out $650 for the cheapest FAL and over $1000 for a DSA. Converting the Saiga can be done for under $100 and I spent about $300 on mine. For reliability I give the edge to the Saiga. It is an AK after all. I also think the FAL has better optics mounting options, but the AK siderail mounts really aren't that bad. I've often wished there were some way to mount a siderail to some of my milsurps without damaging them.

The deciding factor for me is just the way the Saiga points and handles. It is a smaller rifle. The AK receiver is about an 1" shorter than an FAL receiver and the barrel sits about 1/2" farther back in the receiver. It's also easy and affordable to fit a folder to.

Honestly, I don't think any of the 7.62x51 battle rifles out there are perfect. If you want a really state of the art battle rifle you might want to wait for the XCR, Keltech or SCAR.

jagdpanzer347
October 16, 2007, 12:56 AM
Elmer brought up a good point about magazines. The cost. HK/CETME wins hands down there. I bought a bunch of aluminum HK mags for a 1.20 apiece last year. They may be as much as 3.00 now! The second place winner is the FAL. DSA has good condition mags for 7.00. The M14 mags come in third. Checkmate mags are about 24.00 bucks at .44mag.com. The SAIGA and AR10 mags are, what, 35.00-40.00 apiece?

This may or may not play much of a factor in your decision. Some people are quite content with two or three mags. Others may want tens, or even hundreds of mags. Remember the effects of the 94 AWB on mag prices and availability? One more thing to ponder in your decision.

-jagd

MechAg94
October 16, 2007, 01:03 AM
A friend has a DPMS AR-10 rifle. It shoots great, but tends to choke on surplus ammo. It seems to do okay with nice clean new ammo though. I think his reloads worked okay as well.

crazed_ss
October 16, 2007, 03:18 AM
I've settled on 7.62 x 51 as a the optimum carbine caliber fitting my needs. Now I just need to figure out what platform to launch it from...

I need advice on a suitable carbine chambered in 308/7.62 NATO and that is utterly reliable. Magazine capacity should be no less than 20 rds and barrel length should be between 16 and 20 inches. Again, reliability is the most important factor for me. Feel free to share your experiences, positive and negative, with carbines in 7.62 NATO. Thank you.

Hmm no one mentioned a M1A Scout Squad or SA SOCOM 16?
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=19
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=22

Andrewsky
October 16, 2007, 05:06 AM
I've got a SOCOM 16 with an aimpoint on an ultimak rail. I've also got some 110 gr TAP for it.:evil:

If you're a burglar, you do not want to run into that bad boy.

All I need now is to get a light for it...I can always buy that post-Hillary though.:o

If you enjoyed reading about "7.62 x 51 Carbine Platform for HD" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!