Non-lead bullets in 1:48" twist?


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ArmedBear
October 15, 2007, 06:55 PM
California has now passed a law -- previously a DFG request and a forthcoming DFG regulation anyway -- requiring non-lead bullets in part of the state.

Anyone ever use a copper hunting bullet of any kind that worked in a 1:48" barrel?

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Misfire99
October 15, 2007, 11:45 PM
I think you should do what I did. Move out of the peoples republic of california.

Zangetsu
October 15, 2007, 11:55 PM
Can anyone name some redeeming qualities that California has? I'm having trouble finding reasons why I should pray that it doesn't sink into the pacific...

AntiqueCollector
October 16, 2007, 07:38 AM
Maybe try casting bismuth bullets?

mykeal
October 16, 2007, 07:43 AM
To answer your question (as opposed to ranting against California, which is a tempting but unhelpful response):

There is no readily available substitute material for lead to use in making bullets, round or otherwise. Solid copper or copper jacketed bullets will destroy the rifling in a black powder gun in very short order.

jeep-2
October 16, 2007, 08:55 AM
Can anyone name some redeeming qualities that California has? I'm having trouble finding reasons why I should pray that it doesn't sink into the pacific...

eventually it will probably be taken by a quake, it's to bad all the people that screwed it up won't be on the leading edge.

Marlin 45 carbine
October 16, 2007, 09:04 AM
you might consider a sabot with a copper pistol bullet (I think Barnes makes). I shot some sabots out of my .50 1-48 and they do well, but I prefer the Lee REAL slug as I'm working on dialling it in for hog hunting.

ArmedBear
October 16, 2007, 11:15 AM
Solid copper or copper jacketed bullets will destroy the rifling in a black powder gun in very short order.

What about jacketed PowerBelts? Does only the plastic base engage the rifling?

I shot some sabots out of my .50 1-48 and they do well

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Barnes and Knight sell sabot rounds with solid copper bullets. I just haven't shot anything like that in my 1:48 twist .50.

What weight bullet were you shooting?

Also, I've seen guys wrestling with sabots in a muzzleloader. Is there a trick to loading them, apart from using a hydraulic press?

mykeal
October 16, 2007, 06:16 PM
Yes, the sabot engages the rifling with the jacketed Powerbelt; the bullet does not.

And that, of course, is the answer - a saboted copper jacketed bullet.

I have to admit to a lapse in conciousness here - I jumped immediately to a copper ball or mini that would engage the rifling.

What day is it? How long was I out?

ArmedBear
October 16, 2007, 07:20 PM
There's no sabot on a Powerbelt.

There is a plastic base that (I think) functions like the base of a Minie Ball. The Whole bullet does contact the barrel, but I'm guessing only the lands.

K.A.T.
October 16, 2007, 08:13 PM
The plastic base on the powerbelt acts as a gas seal,and holds the powerbelt in place untill the gun is fired.The powerbelt then expands and makes contact on both the lands and grooves of the barrel.I have found two powerbelts in deer I have shot and it is easy to see what happens.

I don't know how many copper plated bullets it takes to destroy a barrel, I've fired at least 200 in a TC Hawkins with a Green Mountain barrel and it looks the same.

ArmedBear you can find a lot of info. on sabots at this site: Rand Wakeman on Inline Muzzleloading.

ArmedBear
October 17, 2007, 12:00 AM
You have the Green Mountain 1:28" or a 1:48"?

K.A.T.
October 17, 2007, 08:08 PM
I have a Green Mountain 1-28 barrel,they make one that comes with sights,ramrod ready to go,just pull the wedge out of the TC Hawkins,drop the GM barrel in,start shooting.No fitting or changes to be made.

The TC 1-48 original barrel shot 15'' to the left at 100yds.The rear sight was almost falling off the barrel to correct it.Tried different loads nothing worked.I guess I could have sent it back to TC,anyway no problems now.

GunTech
October 17, 2007, 11:06 PM
The length of the bullet will determine the required twist. Stick with a short, blunt bullet and you should be OK. As mentioned, a saboted sub caliber copper should do the trick, if allowed by regulation.

ArmedBear
October 18, 2007, 02:09 PM
GunTech-

I'd thought it was the weight that determined the required twist. I guess that's true within a certain cartridge (e.g. .223) where the weight determines the length, but I wasn't thinking that through.

Anyway, you say "blunt", but what about, say the Barnes MZ, which has the center of gravity and weight distribution of a blunt bullet, but a plastic spitzer tip.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/21/61/46/i216146sq01.jpg

Do the aerodynamics of a bullet influence optimal twist, or is it just the weight distribution?

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