Military leaders who carried "other than standard issue" sidearms?


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strangelittleman
October 16, 2007, 11:37 AM
The thread about the German WW2 revolver got me thinking. What are some of the historic military figures that carried personally owned, non-standard sidearms and what have they carried?
Some of you mentioned Goering carrying a S&W .38 snubbie and I read some where of Otto Skorzeny purportedly carrying a .38 snubbie in his jump jacket, as a hideout piece, I assume. Most of us know of Gen.Patton's love of his personal pistols, as well as young Winston Churchill's fondness of the Mauser M-96 Broomhandle.
What are some of the other ones you all have noticed either in print or picture? With as varied a background that many of The High Road people have and as many history enthusiasts are here I'll bet you all can really bring to light some interesting revelations on this subject. Yeah, I really like obscure history like this.....Thanks!

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rcmodel
October 16, 2007, 02:09 PM
Gen. Custer comes to mind.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Hoppy590
October 16, 2007, 02:10 PM
hitler had 2 engraved Walthers PP's i belive.
i want to say iv seen pictures of stalin with a non nagant revolver, but i cant back that up.

What are some of the historic military figures that carried personally owned, non-standard sidearms and what have they carried?


The Rough Riders of Teddy Rosevelt fame had privatly purchesed colt M1895 "Potato Diggers" during the war.

Jimmie
October 16, 2007, 02:14 PM
I haven't seen any other than issue models, but I did handle a one-star's M9. The slide was high-gloss mirror polished, heavily engraved with gold inlays, and stored in a padded case. There wasn't a scratch or scuff on that thing; my jaw dropped when he holstered it like it was a Glock.

plexreticle
October 16, 2007, 02:21 PM
Too many to mention really.

Timthinker
October 16, 2007, 02:52 PM
General MacArthur carried a pocket pistol, presumably a .32 acp, during the siege of the Philippines during 1942. He vowed that he would die rather than surrender to the Japanese forces. Not long afterward, he was evacuated to Australia to head the Allied counteroffensive from there. Whether he continued to carry from that time forward is unknown to me.


Timthinker

Dr.Rob
October 16, 2007, 04:25 PM
Patton also slept with a carbine. Patton carried a lot of unusual arms but the .32 and .380 Colts were issued to general officers. My great aunt kept a .38 SW revolver her husband "took off a dead german" the markings were illegible but it looked like a S&W, only it wasn't.

Vern Humphrey
October 16, 2007, 04:32 PM
General MacArthur carried a pocket pistol, presumably a .32 acp, during the siege of the Philippines during 1942.
MacAurthur carried a Remington .41 rimfire Derringer -- he mentions it specifically in his memoirs and tells how one of his aides scrounged up ammunition for him.

Magnum.35744
October 16, 2007, 05:28 PM
With his Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum 3" and his fully engraved Colt Peacemaker .45 Colt 4 3-4" both stocked with Custom Ivory Grips. Both beautiful guns!!!

-Tre

Chuhhuniban
October 16, 2007, 05:52 PM
I haven't seen any other than issue models, but I did handle a one-star's M9. The slide was high-gloss mirror polished, heavily engraved with gold inlays, and stored in a padded case. There wasn't a scratch or scuff on that thing; my jaw dropped when he holstered it like it was a Glock.

Because of interest and staff assignments, I got to see a number of general officers' pistols back in the 1960s and 1970s. Most were standard M1911s, some were Officers Models or Commanders, but almost all of them had been either polished and reblued or were really commercial models (blued, not SS). Most had been accurized by one Ordnance Depot or another. The niftiest was a M1911 brought up to National Match standards by the shop at Rock Island Arsenal (then still part of the Army's system), reblued (high polish), serrated front strap, a Millett rear sight (I think) and then boxed in a beautiful mahogany box (name on a brass plate on the top) with a sub-caliber set right in with the pistol (the flag ranker was an Ordnance general, commander of the Arsenal). I saw it again a few years ago, his son has it now. Absolutely beautiful.

I have to say, I carried a commercial Colt Government Model throughout my fourteen years of service (including Viet Nam). It was blued, not Parkerized, but nobody every said anything about it. Sadly, it was stolen in the 1980s.

strangelittleman
October 16, 2007, 06:04 PM
Wow! This is great info! I'm new here( only been a member for about a week or so) and have never been part of a forum before. All this internet stuff is quite new to me (a yr or so) I know I definitely picked the right forum! Thanks! Keep it coming!
I remember reading that Col.Bull Simmons carried a .357 mag on the Son Tay raid and used it on a couple of the oppo....has anybody heard the same?

Timthinker
October 16, 2007, 06:44 PM
Yes, MacArthur did carry a .41 derringer, but I am referring to the days before he left the Philippines. As I understand the story, the general carried a small semi-auto to prevent himself or his family from falling into Japanese hands. In addition, "Mac" fancied the 1911 pistol and was instrumental in adopting the vaunted Garand rifle for the army.

Another little known fact is that Eisenhower was issued a .38 revolver by the army, but he is never seen carrying it. Whether he carried it concealed is something I do not know.


Timthinker

pogo2
October 16, 2007, 07:36 PM
Here is a picture of General Patton's Colt Single Action Army, which is silver plated and engraved. Notice his initials on the ivory grips. This gun is in a military museum in Kentucky.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/PATTONCOLT.jpg

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/fileadmin/historyLearningSite/george1.jpg

MikePGS
October 16, 2007, 08:02 PM
Very nice looking revolver Patton had. As an extra tidbit (which i'm sure many of you already know) his SAA had two notches carved into the handle, which were allegedly to mark Patton's dispatching of two of Pancho Villa's lieutenants. In spite of this he referred to the .357 mag as his "killing gun".

wideym
October 16, 2007, 08:09 PM
General Officers are allowed pretty much any uniform or weapon they want. They only have to worry about looking better than the next higher general.

White Horseradish
October 16, 2007, 11:11 PM
Stalin reportedly was fond of pocket guns like 1910/1914 Mausers and small Brownings.

Geronimo45
October 17, 2007, 12:00 AM
General Officers are allowed pretty much any uniform or weapon they want.
Really?

I have a hard time imagining Ike dressing up in an Elvis jumpsuit.



Would definitely boost morale, though.

Dr.Rob
October 17, 2007, 05:08 AM
The days of guys like Patton 'designing his own uniform' (he did) are over. Flashy generals making bizzaro demands (like neckties in combat zones) were put in check by Truman, and belive it or not, Ike. I can't think of a single time I saw a photo of Ike with a sidearm.

Back on topic until Vietnam officers could carry a personal sidearm IF it was chambered in 45ACP. Inside combat zones, many troops in Iraq are carrying scrounged weapons.

Deanimator
October 17, 2007, 10:31 AM
Back on topic until Vietnam officers could carry a personal sidearm IF it was chambered in 45ACP. Inside combat zones, many troops in Iraq are carrying scrounged weapons.

I carried my personally owned Series 70 Colt on the DMZ in '81.

One of the previous commanders of the 2nd Infantry Division, nicknamed "the gunfighter" carried a stag(?) handled nickeled Model 36. There were pictures of him all over Division HQ, if I recall. I think he was 2ID commander when they cut down the tree in Panmunjom.

Vern Humphrey
October 17, 2007, 10:38 AM
I was in Korea in '80 and '81 -- I was the Deputy Operations officer.

I remember Hank Emerson, "The Gunfighter" from Viet Nam. He did indeed carry two .45s.

Grunt
October 17, 2007, 07:16 PM
Earlier this spring I had a 1-star come through my firing line I had to shoot that had his own M9. I don't know if you would call it a "non-standard" issue pistol but General grade officers have the option of being issued (and l even buying) a General-grade M9. The only difference is that they are polished blue rather than the typical matte finish and have wood grips (in this case, the General had his initials engravd on them) but other than that, it's nothing really that different. Oh, and the belt and holster rig were a padded black leather rather than the green pistol belt and suicide holster.

Hoppy590
October 18, 2007, 03:11 AM
http://www.pattonhq.com/unknown/chap05.html

ktd
October 18, 2007, 10:13 PM
when I was in Iraq a couple of years ago, I saw only one pistol that was obviously personally owned by an officer. He was a brigadier and of all things he was carrying a Taurus PT92!.

BADSBSNF81
October 19, 2007, 01:15 AM
I stored a BG's M9 that he purchased from the Army in the mid-90's in a safe. Other than the GO SN, it looked like a rack grade M9. The belt and holster were very nice black padded leather.

koja48
October 19, 2007, 12:42 PM
And once again I pause to clean beverage spray off the computer monitor . . . I seem to recall Ike accepting the nomination with "Thank you, thank you very much . . . " Since actively perusing THR forums, a container of wet wipes & a roll of paper towels have become standard-issue computer station items & I thank you ladies & gents sincerely.

GRIZ22
October 19, 2007, 01:36 PM
General Officers are allowed pretty much any uniform or weapon they want.

If I remember correctly the AR governing uniforms starts off saying "does not apply to General Officers". Don't know if it still says this but it pretty well let's a General wear whatever he wants as a uniform. General Officers in the Army are also issued their pistols and don't have to turn them in to an arms room. They're just "responsible" for securing it.

The days of guys like Patton 'designing his own uniform' (he did) are over.

Even if the AR I mentioned above is still in effect I agree. I remember seeing a letter to Army Times where some PFC noticed a photo of a General with his ribbons on his green shirt. That was not authorized at the time although it was later. Army Times responded quoting the AR I mentioned saying the General could wear whatever he wants.

Checkman
October 19, 2007, 05:46 PM
I've read that Ike carried a 1911 in a shoulder holster under his uniform jacket. In his autobiography Crusade in Europe he mentions carrying a 1911 when tooling around Algeria and Tunisia during the North African campaign. He wasn't flashy and preferred a low key image. Cocealed carry would have suited Ike.

He would practce frequently, partially as a stress reliever I would imagine. He is also reported to have been a pretty fair shot with both handguns and shotguns and supposedly owned a fair number of guns.

tegemu
October 20, 2007, 10:55 AM
Hermann Goering (spelling) had a revolver when he surrendered.

Don357
October 22, 2007, 10:50 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mac Arthur carry a nickle or chrome Colt 1917 .45 acp??

MTS Cop
October 23, 2007, 01:17 AM
Goering was carrying a S&W Military and Police when he surrendered. It's currently on display at the West Point Museum.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/rfrancis1984/DSCF1157.jpg

Elm Creek Smith
October 24, 2007, 11:09 PM
In Cuba, Teddy Roosevelt carried a Colt DA Navy .38 that was recovered from the blown up USS Maine.

ECS

pete f
October 25, 2007, 12:22 AM
Ike was quite the shotgunner, and was known to love hunting quail.

I help take care of an older man who has pics of him and Ike riding on the front bumper of some jeep in a couple of chairs rigged up, each with an A-5. My friend says it was common for hunting when it was hot to ride in the chairs while waiting and watching for the dogs to go on point.

As far a CINC's to have odd guns, rumors fly that "W" sleeps with a 1911 from gunsite or Cooper on the nightstand.

Of course, Nancy Reagan carried a little .32 for years, and spoke of it during her life in the Whitehouse.

Nixon the Quaker was known to have a pistol handy a lot. usually a S&W, but after getting a 1911a1 from Elvis, he kept that loaded in oval office.

camper
October 25, 2007, 09:21 PM
LTG Emerson, upon retirement from his last job as Commander, XVIII Airborne Corps wore those two 45s at his retirement ceremony. I seem to recall he gave one of them away that day as well.

Glock4good
October 26, 2007, 09:24 AM
I had read that at Corregidor MacArthur carried a colt model 1903 in 32ACP in his back pocket. Custer is supposed to have carried two nickel plated Webley British Bulldog revolvers in .450 caliber at the Little Big Horn. I visited the battle site this past summer. 207 spread out men would not have had a chance.

Timthinker
October 26, 2007, 12:16 PM
Glock4good, thanks for the confirmation about Mac's pistol during the seige of the Philippines. I also recall reports that he carried a small semi-auto to prevent himself and his family from falling into Japanese hands. By the way, welcome to THR.


Timthinker

Glock4good
October 26, 2007, 12:26 PM
Thank you. Nice to be here.:)

strangelittleman
October 26, 2007, 12:30 PM
Col. David Hackworth talked about carrying a .38spl revolver in his book,"Steel my soldiers' hearts." He also talked of carrying an m-79 blooper,while surveying the battle area from a helo, quite an unusual weapon for a battalion commander.
Timthinker, I had the opportunity to tour Corregidor back 1990, and remember the guide talking about MacArthur carrying a .32 pistol in order to keep from being taken alive. Even as late as 1990, the wonderful Fillippino people still had a great love for MacArthur!

Neo-Luddite
October 26, 2007, 01:16 PM
Oh why not--Saddam had some varriety of pocket Browning on him when found out in his 'spider' hole. Pres. Bush now has this weapon on his wall in the White House.

Glock4good
October 26, 2007, 03:33 PM
Well if Hillary gets in that will be melted down for sure. Tragic.:mad:

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