Process of making CCW permitees info private


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jeepmor
October 18, 2007, 12:33 PM
Okay folks, how do we go about this? We keep getting our noses bent out of shape when some local rag calls CCW lists public record and takes the liberty of publishing them in their rag. What steps can we take to move these towards private documents where the media cannot access them. I can do work on the local level and contact the people needed, but who do we talk to on the state level? where do we start?

jeepmor

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jeepmor
November 5, 2007, 06:10 AM
Still Nothing but it's got a lot of views. I asked this because Southern Oregon is dealing with the issue now and the local paper is attempting to get the CCW list from the Sheriff, Mike Winters, and make a story by revealing which teachers have CCW permits. Mr. Winters has declined the request by the newspaper for the list.

I sent Sheriff Winters a note of appreciation for standing up for his citizens' privacy. He replied and said it simply would not give it up. I don't think he'd risk his liveliehood over it, but he's fighting the fight. Good man.

I posted another thread in regards to this issue, but really didn't get anywhere besides sending the sheriff a letter of appreciation. All contact with the newspaper required me to submit all but my SSN, no thanks.

jeepmor

Old Fuff
November 5, 2007, 07:02 AM
One of the best ways to get a newspaper's attention is to sit down with a copy and make a list of advertisers. Then contact them by telephone, FAX or e-mail. In some cases a personal visit may be in order if you do business with the advertiser.

Newspapers and other media live on the bucks they get from advertising, not subscriptions. Advertisers spend big money trying to attract customers, not make people mad. Canceled subscriptions don't make the paper's prospects better either. So hit them where it hurts... :evil:

For the most part, those back-east papers that have posted CCW holders' names and addresses have come to regret it.

skidmark
November 5, 2007, 07:45 AM
Sorry I'm late to the party.

I'm amazed that nothing has yet been said about lobbying the state legislature to amend the Freedom of Information law to exempt CCW-holder information.

Virginia went through the episode of the Roanoke Times publishing the full state list (do your own search - I'm too lazy to look for it & post the link). Not only did the State Police - custodians of the list - do an administrative change because they found out they were violating the law by providing the information to the newspaper, but the furor set activists into high gear seeking sponsors for bills to add CHPs to the list of information exempt from FOIA.

Writing letters to the editor may get support from those who never before considered the issue, but it will not change anything. Asking your legislator to sponsor a bill to exempt the information from FOIA release is the way to see things get changed.

Call your local state House or Senate person and schedule a face-to-face sitdown with them. Better yet, get suport from your state's gun-rights organizations and bring representatives along to show support - but YOU be the spokesperson. Have 5 copies of no more than 2 pages of bulleted points supporting your position you give to him/her. Ask them directly to sponsor a bill to exempt the information from FOIA release - and offer to help write/edit/review it before it is submitted.

Sorry for being Captain Obvious regarding this, but someone had to do it and I elected myself.

stay safe.

skidmark

AirForceShooter
November 5, 2007, 09:09 AM
In Florida we got the information catagorized as confidential and not open to the public. That was after a newspaper published our names and addresses.

It can be done. The biggest arguement to use is that of a woman with an order of protection trying to hide from her abuser and now the paper wants to make her address public?

AFS

RoadkingLarry
November 5, 2007, 09:29 AM
Lobby to get it written into the law like Oklahoma did right the first time around.

EXCERPT FROM
TITLE 21 1290.13

The Bureau shall also maintain for each applicant the original application or a copy of the original application form and any subsequent renewal application forms together with the photographs, fingerprints and other pertinent information on the applicant which shall be confidential, except to law enforcement officers or law enforcement agencies in the performance of their duties.

Hawk
November 5, 2007, 10:24 AM
I just snagged this from TSRA's '07 "to do list".

Shouldn't be too hard to get the text of HB-991 then get one of your legislators to introduce the thing. Then the fun starts.


CHL Confidentiality~HB 991 by Rep. Patrick Rose (D-Dripping Springs)/Sen. Bob Deuell (R-Greenville)

Bill would prohibit access to information regarding CHL applicants and licenseholders, except by federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies and their employees. A majority of states with similar laws have enacted confidentiality provisions as part of their concealed carry statutes.

Passed (5/9/07)
Signed by Governor Perry (5/23/07) Effective immediately

enfield
November 5, 2007, 10:45 AM
Start with your state-level gun rights organizations. Get them to visit the appropriate legislators and lobby for a state law requiring privacy.

jeepmor
November 5, 2007, 05:52 PM
Okay, I know where to start now. I was not sure if it was local or state level. Thanks for the examples of laws elsewhere. Time to make some contacts. Any Oregonians interested in joining the cause?

I have quite a bit of homework to do now.

Okay, I know where to start now. I was not sure if it was local or state level. Thanks for the examples of laws elsewhere. Time to make some contacts. Any Oregonians interested in joining the cause?

I have quite a bit of homework to do now.

I'm contacting my regional NRA folks now in hopes getting a contact list for the proper doors to knock on.

jeepmor

Cougfan2
November 5, 2007, 06:06 PM
Jeepmor Who were the original sponsors of the CCW law in Oregon? Are any of them still serving in Salem? I would think that might be a good place to start. I'm willing to do a little research myself.

foghornl
November 7, 2007, 10:50 AM
Some of the big-city fishwraps [" Newspapers "] do that same foolishness here in Ohio.

So, we usually fight back by publishing the info on newspaper editors, reporters, etc. Also letting the advertisers know that we won't be spending our $$$ with them.

Look back in the archives a few months about how "we" (the gun guys-n-gals) foguht back agains the Roanoke, VA "Times"

stevemis
November 7, 2007, 05:33 PM
On first glance, it appears North Carolina *may* be safe. I say that because I believe the records are maintained by the SBI (State Bureau of Investigation) and, by reviewing caselaw, have determined that the SBI records do not fall under our open records laws.

However, even if the above incoherent speculation is indeed correct, the individual sheriff departments within the state also have their hands in the process (you apply for and pick up your permit at the sheriff's office) and the information may be subject to disclosure through that avenue.

Edit: I just faxed a request for CHP licensee information to the Sheriff's department here in Wake County. I'll update this thread when I hear back.

FYI, I am requesting this information just to see if it's possible to get it. I have no intended use for the information itself and actually hope it's not publicly available..

jeepmor
November 12, 2007, 07:59 AM
I started with my regional NRA reps and they put me in touch with Rod Harder, Oregon's NRA lobbyist. I hope to be told this is already happening and I just need to join the party, but if not, I'll try and start my own.

I'm no politician, but this cause is worthy of stepping out of my comfort zone to attempt to do the right thing in pushing for legislation to the effect. I suspect this process will illustrate the pro and anti legislators in my state.

jeepmor

stevemis
November 19, 2007, 09:26 AM
Update to my post (#12). As you see, I requested CCW licensee information from my local sheriff's office (Wake County, NC) on November 7th. I just received a telephone call informing me that the information is indeed available, although they "don't like to give out DOB's". I was also asked if I was "looking for someone in particular". I could tell the caller was somewhat alarmed regarding my request.

I explained this was merely an experiment to find out how available this information was. I told the gentleman that several newspapers throughout the country have obtained and published these lists, and there are several states making this information private. My request was merely to document the entire process.

I was told to expect somewhere in the neighborhood of 7,000 to 10,000 records. I am expecting a telephone call from the person who will be running the database query to discuss the data format.

Scary.

RoadkingLarry
November 19, 2007, 10:16 AM
Lobbying your state reps is not all that big a deal.
As mentioned above if the legislator that put up the original CCW bill is still in office they are the one to start with. If not then your rep or a known gun friendly rep. Contact them with your concern, provide current state law with appropriate statute numbers if applicable and also provide suggested wording to fix the problem (see example from Oklahoma above). It can also be helpful to offer several examples of other states with CW info being confidential/restricted to LE organizations.
Once you have a rep to work with have everybody you can and all there friends and all their friends , contact that rep to politely request they support the measure. –> “Hi representative Smith’s Office this is Joe Gunguy and I live in XYZville in his district/sate and It is my understanding that rep Smith is working on legislation to make CCW info confidential. I think that is a good idea and I really hope he supports and pushes this legislation.”
Once you have a rep pushing legislation then everyone needs to call their own rep and urge them to support that piece of legislation.

It has been my experience that there are a lot of State level representatives that are just empty headed little do-gooders waiting for the chance make a name for themselves with make-happy legislation. Using the example of a woman with a RO trying to hide from bad ex-boyfriend gets her name and address published might work.

stevemis
November 19, 2007, 10:20 AM
We should put some effort into compiling a list of instances where this information has been published, and the consequences (if known). Since history does indeed repeat itself, it could be compelling.

Here's a first shot.

Ohio:
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2007/06/10/viewpoints/register_viewpoints/307039.txt - Taking aim at the public record - June 10, 2007
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3816.html - Sandusky Register Editor Matt Westerhold Declares War on Gun Owner Privacy - June 25, 2007
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3852.html - Sandusky Register's error-filled list of CHL-holders' private info - July 17, 2007

Oregon:
http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/11.13.07%20alert.html - MEDFORD NEWSPAPER SUES TO GET NAMES OF GUN OWNERS - Undated

Tennessee:
http://www.wbir.com/news/maps/handguns.aspx - Maps: Handgun Carry Permits, WBIR TV


Virginia:
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160 - Roanoke Times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN4smdjU1e8 - Roanoke Times CCW database published, CNN April 2nd, 2007
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0704/02/pzn.01.html - Transcript of above
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/112135 - State police close list of gun permits - Roanoke Times

jeepmor
November 19, 2007, 11:19 PM
So far the NRA rep has not gotten back to me. I wanted to chime in since it's been a week or so with no movement. I have not forgotten. I did find Oregon's Firearm activist website. Oregon Firearms Federation which is appears to be the key activist organization in regards to Oregonians gun rights.

Here's a link http://oregonfirearms.org/

This is the event that spawned this thread.
Oregon:
http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage...7%20alert.html - MEDFORD NEWSPAPER SUES TO GET NAMES OF GUN OWNERS - Undated

Please send an e-mail offering Sheriff Michael Winters your support.

WinterMS-AT-jacksoncounty.org
replace the -AT- with the @ symbol

stevemis
November 20, 2007, 12:25 AM
Please send an e-mail offering Sheriff Michael Winters your support.

Done!

jeepmor
November 20, 2007, 12:40 AM
Okay the balls rolling. It's more like a cube at the moment, but the more we turn it over, the more rounded the corners become and the easier to roll it becomes.

Robert Hairless
November 20, 2007, 02:44 AM
I suspect that your job would be easy if you got the list, and that it contained the names of state officials such as legislators, and you contacted them asking that they sponsor such a law.

You might also contact that sheriff again and ask for his suggestions about how to go about what you are trying to do. He presumably knows more about the specific situation than the NRA any of us, and he might even suggest names of legislators you could contact to get the ball rolling.

jeepmor
November 20, 2007, 08:09 AM
Here's a website to find your Oregon Legislators. Oregonians, please take the time to support the privatization of these CHL permit holders lists.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/findlegsltr/

I am drafting a letter to all my Republican state Senators now. I'll be doing more work on this matter, but that's where I'm starting at the moment until I get a decent draft that I can use like a form letter on the matter. Once I get some responses, I'll pursue it further as well as hit up the state representatives.

cpaspr
November 20, 2007, 10:03 PM
Sheriff Winters contacted.

stevemis
November 20, 2007, 11:07 PM
I got an email reply from Sheriff Winters thanking me for my support.

NASCAR_MAN
November 21, 2007, 12:22 AM
Okay folks, how do we go about this? We keep getting our noses bent out of shape when some local rag calls CCW lists public record and takes the liberty of publishing them in their rag. What steps can we take to move these towards private documents where the media cannot access them. I can do work on the local level and contact the people needed, but who do we talk to on the state level? where do we start?

jeepmor

===========================================

Well...let's make a move to get rid of a "CCW Permission List" - gun registration by any other name.

Jesus H Christ folks... doesn't the 2nd Amendment mean anything?

jeepmor
November 21, 2007, 05:10 AM
Well...let's make a move to get rid of a "CCW Permission List" - gun registration by any other name.

Jesus H Christ folks... doesn't the 2nd Amendment mean anything?

Are you an Oregonian? If so, send some letters and join the cause. One voice is ignored, many are not.

Also, anyone know who the legislators were that drove the shall issue CCW process for Oregon. I'm coming up empty thus far.

stevemis
November 21, 2007, 03:23 PM
Update:

I got the Concealed List from the Sheriff's department today. They only gave name, issue date and type (new, renewal, duplicate). They said the other information I requested (address, date of birth, etc) was not available publicly but declined to identify the statute which excludes that from public record.

I have 6,112 records in total for the county. Of those, 3305 are "NEW", 2196 are "RENEWAL" and 606 are "DUPLICATE" (replaced a lost license).

The list was provided as a PDF (which I then converted to text and imported into a database). The list was emailed to me, and provided at no charge.

I have found an individual I believe is a member of the state legislature on this list. I will continue pressing the sheriff's office for the rest of the data, at which point I will be able to be certain this person is a lawmaker and will contact the individual regarding the availability of this list.

I will not share the contents of this list. If you'd like a copy, the county Sheriff's office will (unfortunately) gladly provide one.

jeepmor
November 22, 2007, 04:40 AM
Are you in Oregon Stevemis? I can't tell.

stevemis
November 22, 2007, 08:36 AM
I'm in Raleigh, NC. My profile used to say that... not sure where it went!

mrreynolds
November 22, 2007, 12:35 PM
We all use the 2nd Amendment as a tool to protect our families but don't forget about Identity Theft protection as well. We divulge a lot of data when filing for an in state or out of state CCW permit. Now we have some newspapers releasing information about all permit holders in their state which adds the risk of possible robbery & home invasion. Please take a moment to protect you & your loved one's Business-1st.info (http://business-1st.info)

stevemis
December 7, 2007, 05:04 PM
I am now in possession of the entire Wake County, NC permit history database. It contains names as well as addresses, and includes all permits issued, expired and current.

There are almost 14,000 names and addresses.

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