double barreled black powder derringer


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Leon DeGamme
October 20, 2007, 02:53 AM
I am wondering if any of you know where I could find one of these. I love the idea of a small black powder .45/.451 that can actually shoot birdshot and thats not regulated by the crappy state of California. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any of them online. I remember they used to be all over the place. Any help would be appreciated.

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BigBlock
October 20, 2007, 03:06 AM
http://www.firequest.com/catalog/FJ651moreinfo.html

;)

elephant_man
October 21, 2007, 12:24 AM
Hmmm, interesting. I've never heard of these. Anyone own one or shot one? How is it?

I just googled this and found out they're made by Cobray :uhoh:

Still, the idea of a double barreled BP pistol is intriguing.

Leon DeGamme
October 21, 2007, 08:05 PM
Double barreled B/P pistols that are not antiques are pretty rare. I especailly like the fact that this pistol is smooth bore and can be loaded with shot. As you know, short barreled shotguns that take modern cartridges are a big NO-NO. This is the next best thing.

Donny
October 21, 2007, 08:53 PM
I have one of these pistols. The good is they can shoot a lead ball although I don't shoot the .451 ball they recommend. Instead I shoot a patched .433 ball on top of 25 to 28 grains of powder. The bad is the safety doesn't work and for some reason the first hammer fall on the first barrel shot doesn't fire reliably but the second barrel does, go figure. The ugly, well look at it. I can hit a paper plate with it at about 15 to 20 feet away. Not my favorite black powder derringer and I have several.

Don

Leon DeGamme
October 21, 2007, 08:55 PM
is it smoothbore and can shoot birdshot?

Donny
October 21, 2007, 09:26 PM
Yes it is smooth bored.

Son of Sam
October 22, 2007, 02:26 AM
Here's an alternate supplier:

ET CETERA
P.O. Box 929
Copperhill, TN 37317

(800) 642-1600

I spoke with the owner a few times about a year or so ago and he's an extremely nice old man. He doesn't have a website and probably never will, but when I'm ready to buy one of those double barrel .45s I'll defintitely give him my business, just because he's such a great guy.

Write him and he'll send you a hand-printed catalog with all his wares. He has alot of different derringer kits and interesting things you don't find just anywhere anymore... :)

Leon DeGamme
October 29, 2007, 10:32 PM
Ok, I just got mine in the mail today. It's alot better quality than I expected, very solid little piece. Anyways, im a little disappointed that it can't shoot both barrels at the same time (not that I really intended to). Does anyone know if and how I can shoot some shot (bb size or smaller?) through this? I have no idea how a black powder shotguns works or if this is even capable through this.

mykeal
October 29, 2007, 11:18 PM
BP shotguns are loaded thus:

90 (or so) gr ffg black powder, a 1/8" thick overpowder or nitro card, a 1/2" thick cushion or fiber wad, 1 1/4 ozs (or so) #4 (or so) lead shot and finally a 0.025" thick overshot card.

You can certainly do the same with a smoothbore pistol, but you will have difficulty finding .45 cal cards and wads. .45 cal revolver Wonder Wads are neither thick enough to act as cushion wads nor stiff enough to act as overpowder/overshot wads. You can make your own but it's tedious.

If you should decide to try, I'd suggest using 1 oz of #6 or 7 lead shot with fffg, not ffg, powder, probably about 40 gr to start. And be prepared for the pattern to spread rapidly, so that the charge will be ineffective past about 20 feet.

Leon DeGamme
October 30, 2007, 04:34 PM
I know it's not that unusual to load black powder smoothbore pistols with "snakeshot". I am just a little confused about the loading process and what I need. I can't imagine that there are no resources for this type of load. I have seen how people have loaded BP revolvers with snakeshot but being that the pistol I have doesnt have a loadable cylinder, I wonder how it can be accolplished.

sundance44s
October 30, 2007, 06:19 PM
Loading a smooth bore black powder gun can be as easy as ..drop your powder charge in then ram a piece of wasp nest in and pack ..then add your shot ..take another piece of the wasp nest and ram on top of the shot to hold it in place ....cap her up and let it fly .....or spend money and buy a bag of over powder cards , wads and over shot cards ...which you can find at DixieGunWorks...and some other stores . I only use the store bought stuff when I load black powder shotgun shells.

Leon DeGamme
October 30, 2007, 06:39 PM
I just noticed that the pistol has rifling in each barrel. I guess that is not very helpful in shooting shot. :( what is Wasp nest?

Selfdfenz
October 30, 2007, 10:31 PM
Cobray actually marketed kits for both the pistol and a shotgun version of this a couple of year back. They were advertised in Shotgun News on a regular basis.

A wasp nest is that many celled birth place of evil barb-a--ed flying stinging machines. Often found hanging from the eves (sp?) of houses complete with ill tempered occupants. Winter time collection much advised.

I would make very sure what the manufacturer recommends in the way of powder charge & shot load weight before I started testing one of these pistols.

Best,

S-

AntiqueCollector
October 30, 2007, 10:36 PM
90 grains of powder would be too much in such a pistol. Start using the same as for a roundball.

Leon DeGamme
October 30, 2007, 10:37 PM
The manufacturer is out of business as far as i know. You know, I like this little derringer but its not exactly what I want. Rifled barrels are not good for shooting any kind of shot. I have always liked the idea of a short barreled doulble barreled shotgun. Of course, federal law prohibits them unless they are in black powder muzzloading form. I have never seen them online (probably because they are only custom jobs?). If anyone knows of a retailer, please let me know.

AntiqueCollector
October 30, 2007, 10:42 PM
You could sand it smooth. Wrap sand paper (for metal) around a dowel about the size of the bore and sand it down or use a thin drum sander on a drill or drill press or whatever. Classic Arms makes a kit they call their "snake eyes" which is smoothbore but .36 caliber, not sure if that's big enough for you. Their kits are rough though and take some work to get together. Here's one place that has it: http://possibleshop.com/classic-arms.htm

Leon DeGamme
October 30, 2007, 10:59 PM
a little small for me, im thinking bigger bore diameter. I actually found something I like http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/PDBC.SHTML

Browning
October 31, 2007, 01:34 PM
Leon DeGamme : Double barreled B/P pistols that are not antiques are pretty rare. I especailly like the fact that this pistol is smooth bore and can be loaded with shot. As you know, short barreled shotguns that take modern cartridges are a big NO-NO. This is the next best thing.

That's not exactly true.

I used to think the same thing until I saw these.

Bond Arms makes a couple of .410/.45 Long Colt Models that doesn't require any kind of tax stamp.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/24590ef828d5a4.jpg


You can find them here.

http://www.bondarms.com/ifirearms.htm

Leon DeGamme
October 31, 2007, 03:19 PM
You forget, I live in the crappy state of ************. These little pistols are not on the "approved" list and very hard to get if not impossible. Thats why I am sticking with black powder. At this point in time, the "powers that be" dont care about black powder weapons but I am sure that will change soon.

Browning
October 31, 2007, 05:20 PM
Does not being on "the approved list" mean that they're illegal in **********?

Leon DeGamme
October 31, 2007, 05:38 PM
From what I understand, if a pistol is not an "approved" firearm then it cant be sold new at a gun store. I believe that it can be transfered via a FFL from a private party however.

BigBlock
November 1, 2007, 06:10 AM
That's not exactly true.

I used to think the same thing until I saw these.

Bond Arms makes a couple of .410/.45 Long Colt Models that doesn't require any kind of tax stamp.

That's because it's rifled, which makes for a crappy shotgun. The BP derringer being discussed here can also be had in .410/45, but only if it's rifled, otherwise you'd be in big big trouble.

Selfdfenz
November 1, 2007, 09:14 AM
Sorry guys these comments are not BP-related:

Check out the Taurus 4410 revolver. It's a handgun that fires 410 shells and 45 Colt rounds. Reports are pretty good given that any firearm that compromises to the extent it can fire both shot and slugs usually gives up something performance-wise with both. Not cheap.

I think they have a version that handles 3" in the works.

Best

S-

Browning
November 1, 2007, 10:30 AM
Leon DeGamme : From what I understand, if a pistol is not an "approved" firearm then it cant be sold new at a gun store. I believe that it can be transfered via a FFL from a private party however.

Well that kinda sucks.

I'm glad I moved out of California several years ago, not because of this gun, but because it seems like the entire state just has a bunch of senseless rules and regulations concerning just about everything.

DixieTexian
November 1, 2007, 12:38 PM
You might also look at the howdah pistol from Dixie

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=14020&osCsid=481a1f2d45f7286aaba9b0032153c19c

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