[WhiteKnight]

"Concealed carry permits are the government's way having us register our guns (fingerprint and all) and paying them to do it while we walk out the door and loudly swear we'll never register anything because we're free Americans."


Agree?

[romma]

Well they at least know who probably has guns depending on what State you live in...

[bhk]

In most states they are registering you, not you guns. My sheriff has no idea what guns I may carry or how many I may have.

[fletcher]

I disagree, as guns are not being registered. The owner is, in a way, but not guns. They have no clue what you do/do not have just from the information obtained via the CCW application process (at least in NC).

[El Tejon]

Depends on the state. I believe in California you put your guns on the license. In Indiana we do not and may pack any pistol we legally possess.

[springmom]

No. In Texas the CHL is for the PERSON, not any particular gun. Unless I buy a class III gun (hopefully, eventually) local LEO won't have a clue WHAT I own; but if I get stopped for a traffic violation, they will know that I have the license and may be carrying.

It's an alarmist argument. You can perhaps argue that the state has no compelling interest in making certain that people have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the firearms and the pertinent laws regarding their carry; but it's not gun registration, no.

Springmom

[jefnvk]

I would say that 4473's are a much better backdoor registration.....

All a CCW does, is say you can carry, at least in MI. I know a person who has a CCW, and who doesn't own a gun. Nothing about what guns you own.

[poet]

I know California and Nevada actually list the firearms that you qualified with on the license. Other states do not have this information listed.

[joab]

They may not know exactly what you have, in some states, but they do know you have something, and which doors to knock, or possibly no-knock, when the time comes

[brickeyee]

Virginia knows nothing about what guns you carry or own.

[scurtis_34471]

Florida has no gun registration. The Concealed Weapons License process does not include any listing of weapons. They only know that you probably own at least one handgun. They have no idea where or how many.

[Daemon688]

In Minnesota there is no fingerprinting. There is no registration of firearms for your license. If the government really wanted to see who had guns in this country they would simply have to collect all the form 4473s. Really the 4473 form IS registration.

[springmom]

Actually, they do NOT know you have a gun. You can rent one to qualify with. Lots of folks have not yet picked out their handgun when they test, so they rent one from the range. Not a good idea, of course, unless you've already shot with the gun a few times. I wouldn't have thought people COULD miss at those ranges, but apparently it is possible....

Springmom

[ServiceSoon]

I don't think the intention of 4473's or carrying permits is to create a "confiscation list." My problem is that it could be used that way one day. Politicians, lobbyist, the NRA and the opposition know this. That is why there are requirements such as deleting back ground check information, the Tiahrt amendment & etc.

Until you can prove that these rules don’t keep the general public safe we are stuck with them.

[Bacchus]

I agree with springmom. In states where specific firearm data is not collected, getting a carry license does not even mean that you own a gun. Just gives you the ability to carry one in case you do...

[RKBABob]

Florida has no gun registration. The Concealed Weapons License process does not include any listing of weapons. They only know that you probably own at least one handgun. They have no idea where or how many. Ditto for Pennsylvania. There's also no required courses or pistol qualification... In other words, you can apply without having ever handled a firearm in your entire life. If anyone asks, and it bothers you for some reason, just tell 'em you're thinking of getting a gun.

Here's a link to the application form used by every county sheriff in Pennsylvania... if anyone is interested in seeng what info is required.
http://www.co.beaver.pa.us/sheriff/GunPermit_renew_asof013107.pdf

Purchasing a firearm is another matter, though. I have heard that the PA State Police were keeping some sort of registry of gun purchases... but I don't know how they were doing this, or if the situation has since been resolved.

[CajunBass]

As someone else said not in Virginia. They really have no more information than they have from my drivers license or a fishing license. I may or may not have a gun. I may or may not have an automobile. I may or may not have a fishing rod.

[XavierBreath]

Years ago in Louisiana, when I got my first CHL, Louisiana was not a shall issue state. I had to list the serial number of my carry gun with the Sheriff's office and genuflect to recieve my license. My license was tied to the specific handgun.

Now, Louisiana is a shall issue state. A specific handgun is not tied to my license. I do not even have to own a gun to have the license.

I fail to see how that is registration.

[Caimlas]

Ah, so what I hear you folks saying is that CCW permits are more like the stars that Nazis gave the Jews after the guns were all confiscated, not the actual registration which led to the confiscation...

[Sage of Seattle]

My own personal experience in Seattle this past year: I had several firearms that were "held for safekeeping" by the SPD. When I called the detective in charge of my items, she wanted to make sure they had my pistols and that none were missing/stolen or for whatever reason and she read off to me every pistol I had ever purchased through a dealership, including (for example) a Beretta Cheetah I had gotten and sold to my BIL over six years ago. I was rather surprised, but just simply said I no longer owned those particular items that I no longer owned and she may have made a notation on that.

So, in my case, it apparently was a simple matter for the police to research and come up with every FFL purchase I had made.

Sounds like de facto gun registration to me, though I don't think it was tied either directly or indirectly to my CHP.

[XavierBreath]

Ah, so what I hear you folks saying is that CCW permits are more like the stars that Nazis gave the Jews after the guns were all confiscated, not the actual registration which led to the confiscation...
I do not understand your point. Please elaborate on this relationship.

Please explain how citizens voting and gaining the right to carry a concealed handgun is equivalent to a dictator labeling people to be gathered up and placed in concentration camps.

1. You do not have to own a gun to have a CHL, a CHP or a CCW.
2. You do not have to have a CHL, a CHP, or a CCW to own a gun.
3. No guns have been confiscated as a result of concealed carry legislation.
4. Concealed carry legislation was not passed at the behest of the government, but often in spite of the government.

Is this simply another example of Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)?

[jwr_747]

don't know why anyone worries about "them" knowing you have weapons.if you CCW you have a "on the books" permit,if you don't CCW you have a house load of weapons.when door kicking in time comes it's every door.I would think "the kickers" would worry more about the folks they didn't know about. jwr

[ranger58]

my county or state does not know what i carry, the two of the county's I have lived in know what I own for pistols, and probably the state, the current county i'm in right now does not charge to register a hand gun.


R58

[amper]

Perhaps the door kickers might in fact be more worried about the guns and/or gun owners they don't already know about, but you can be 100% certain that they're going to start the kicking with the households known to possess weapons, and you can also be 100% sure that anyone with a CCW permit is going to get the same treatment, regardless of whether or not the government knows exactly what you possess or not.

In fact, I would be willing to bet that they'd start with the CCW holders, since there is probably a greater likelihood that those who have already demonstrated the willingness to go armed among the sheep are more willing to stand up against all forms of tyranny...

[GEM]

If confiscation starts - guess what posters - it will take a few seconds to find out who you are. Also, ever buy a gun item with a credit card, subscribe to a gun rag, etc. How about the membership to an organization - think those lists won't be seized under the Anti-gun-terrorist Patriot Act?

You are free to carry without a license. Don't complain though if you go to jail. So what's the problem. Be the Rosa Parks of the Gun World and open carry on your visit to the Governor (if it isn't legal) in your state.

See you on CourtTV or Nancy Grace.

[Old Dog]

After reading Amper's statement, I'm left wondering ... where'd I put my tinfoil hat?

[cnorman18]

In Texas, I am registered, not my gun.

BTW, I would think that executing a 'no-knock' warrant on a CHL holder would be a VERY high-risk endeavor...

A few thoughts:
4473s are not updated. There are probably 50 or more out there with my name on them from the purchase of guns that I no longer own. There are uncountable millions of 4473s on file with gun dealers in the US, and probably more than half would lead nowhere for similar reasons (many gunnies like to swap, upgrade, and change their collections a LOT). Good luck to any bureaucrat who tries to use 4473s to track down anything or anybody. He'll need a few thousand subordinates and a few decades to devote to following false leads--not to mention the millions of guns that have been obtained in private sales or trades that never saw a Federal form at all.

I'm a Jew, by the way. You be sure and let me know when they make you sew a yellow CHL badge on every garment you own.

[Juna]

"Concealed carry permits are the government's way having us register our guns (fingerprint and all) and paying them to do it while we walk out the door and loudly swear we'll never register anything because we're free Americans."

I couldn't agree more. I hate it. In my state (MI), I had to be fingerprinted. We also have to bring our pistols to the police station for a "safety inspection," which entails writing down the serial number, make, model, barrel length, and magazine capacity. It's 100% registration of both firearms and firearm owners. :fire:

[AK103K]

I believe WhiteKnight is right, and it is defacto registration. The fact that they dont, or no longer do(PA used to require the make and serial number of the guns you were planning on carrying) require the guns you carry to be listed, its just the fact that you went to the trouble of getting one that pretty much singles you out. Why would you bother if you didnt have, or have access to, a gun? Why would you bother getting a drivers license (a whole other issue :) ) if you didnt plan on driving a car?


We are no longer, and havent been for a very long while now, "free Americans". If we were, we wouldnt need permits, or background checks, or have money forcefully taken out of our pay checks, etc, etc, and on and on. One thing is for certain, we have learned nothing from history, and Herr Goebbels would be proud and honored of what those in power here have learned from him and how they have taken it to new and loftier heights.

Oh well, all will be fine, just get me another beer, and put the game on there, will ya? :)

[Quiet]

Out of all the states that issue CCW permits, CA and NV are the only ones that I know of that list what firearms you can carry.

CA lists make, model, caliber and serial number.
Also, CA has handgun registration. Any handgun bought from a CA FFL or processed by a CA FFL is registered with the CA DOJ.

NV lists make, model, caliber and date placed on permit.
Also, due to the new changes in NV CCW, revolvers are just listed as a general category. Once you get approved for one, you ca carry any. New permits after 10-01-07, lists Revolver - yes or no.

[Robert Hairless]

Be careful of the fingerprint requirement. I heard a rumor that when they press your fingers against the pad a small microchip is implanted in each finger. If it turns out the microchip isn't working they tell you to come back so they can do it again.

I hadn't heard about the yellow badge for permit holders. Any idea where to get one? It would look good with my gold concealed carry permit holder badge, 5-11 tactical pants, and so on. Do they come in other colors? There's no point in carrying concealed unless other people know it.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Here in WA no licence or permit is required to carry a gun. That is unless you want to CONCEAL it! Open carry is 100% legal and one does NOT need to ask permission from our overlords to do it!

[BobMcG]

"Concealed carry permits are the government's way having us register our guns (fingerprint and all) and paying them to do it while we walk out the door and loudly swear we'll never register anything because we're free Americans."

Well, it's the nature of the beast where I live but it's not like it's a big, dark secret and you get blindsided by it. You know it going into it. You either like handguns and wish to own and carry them or you don't.

I never swore to any such thing.

[Sistema1927]

I'm buying more Alcoa stock.

[230RN]

Robert Hairless explained:

Be careful of the fingerprint requirement. I heard a rumor that when they press your fingers against the pad a small microchip is implanted in each finger. If it turns out the microchip isn't working they tell you to come back so they can do it again.

So that's why my right index finger itches until I get to the range !

[JohnBT]

Why isn't anybody worried about hunting licenses?

[davepool]

I don't understand the fuss about gun registration, it's been here for a long time. If you purchase a gun legally you must show I.D and fill out a BATF form4473 with all of your personal information on it. If the wacked out gun haters decide to take our guns we've already supplied them with the info they need....what, do you think they throw those things away when you walk out of the gun shop? believe me somewhere in some rathole bureacracy "they" have your name,address,gun serial #,gun type and caliber,and date of purchase....all we can do now is unite and fight

[Rey B]

I thought my black belt in sarcasm was something but Sensei Hairless I wish to study under you. :evil: That was truly masterful.

[The Lone Haranguer]

I disagree that it is gun registration, although it does depend on the state. For example, Nevada requires you to list every gun you wish to carry on your permit, right down to a description and serial number, and you have to live-fire-qualify with each one. (I lived in Vegas briefly and thoroughly detested it, BTW.) That would certainly be gun registration. Arizona has no such requirement, nor do most other states.

I would like to see all the states adopt the Vermont and Alaska model, but unfortunately that is just a pipe dream. In a "shall-issue" state like Arizona with relatively loose requirements, I can live with the permit system.

[Guitargod1985]

I don't understand the fuss about gun registration, it's been here for a long time. If you purchase a gun legally you must show I.D and fill out a BATF form4473 with all of your personal information on it. If the wacked out gun haters decide to take our guns we've already supplied them with the info they need....what, do you think they throw those things away when you walk out of the gun shop? believe me somewhere in some rathole bureacracy "they" have your name,address,gun serial #,gun type and caliber,and date of purchase....all we can do now is unite and fight

That's why it's always a good idea to get acquire many firearms as possible throught private sales. Uncle Sam hasn't a clue how many firearms I have.

PS: For the record, in threads titled "what guns do you own?" I only list guns obtained through an FFL. Yes, I AM paranoid.

[cnorman18]

The proper question has always been, not "Are you paranoid?" but "Are you paranoid ENOUGH?"

[Guitargod1985]

I couldn't agree more.

After all, if I'm "too paranoid" I haven't lost a thing, but if I'm not paranoid enough, I'm in trouble.

[cnorman18]

The other famous saying on the subject is, "You aren't paranoid if they really are out to get you."

They are. And we aren't.

[VARifleman]

Virginia knows nothing about what guns you carry or own.
They know about every gun you buy in VA though. One copy of the VA form you fill out in addition to the 4473 gets sent to the state police.

[Jorg]

That's why it's always a good idea to get acquire many firearms as possible throught private sales. Uncle Sam hasn't a clue how many firearms I have.
PS: For the record, in threads titled "what guns do you own?" I only list guns obtained through an FFL.


This mindset fascinates me. While it's certainly your perogative to buy things as you see fit, I don't understand the benefit of the secrecy. The only thing I can guess is that for some reason you think that if then come for your guns, they'll only take the ones they know about and you can keep the other ones since they'll be none the wiser.

So, assuming that they come around and take the ones they know about or you go turn them in, then what? You then illegally own several guns which you can't use without going to jail. What good do they do you? Do you pull them out at night with the curtains drawn and stroke them lovingly, reminiscing about all those good times at the range? Do you sneak them out to the middle of the desert or a forest, risking imprisonment to hone your skills? Do you use them in self-defense, knowing that you'll go to jail but keep your life? Do you bury them in the backyard, secure in the knowledge that if the law changes, you'll be able to dig them up and have them again? That seems unlikely since if things went all the way to confiscation, the law wouldn't be easily overturned. To get to that point where consfications actually occured, the laws would have to be passed, injunctions filed, cases heard and decided, and all the other red tape. Perhaps you are expecting to use them in some armed uprising? That seems unlikely as most gun owners can't even be bothered to stand up for their rights now, let alone under the threat of imprisonment or death. Maybe you think that it will be the straw the breaks the camel's back and gun owners will suddenly band together, but I suspect it will be very much what we see now. A lot of talk, infighting and no action.

What exactly are you going to do with these privately-purchased guns if the day comes? You can't shoot them, the law won't likely be reprealed later, and you aren't going to start a revolution. Aside from the smug satisfaction that you have guns you aren't supposed to that you will never use again, I don't see what the benefit is. So, what am I missing?

[Guitargod1985]

Do you use them in self-defense, knowing that you'll go to jail but keep your life?

That's really what it's all about. Whether or not a government tells me I have a right to defend myself, I know I do.

As far as stroking them lovingly - well, I haven't done that in a while. I suppose it's time. If you will excuse me...

While you're analyzing my "fascinating" mindset, tell me that my passion for finely tuned mechanical devices means that I want to have relations with my mother, Mr. Freud.:neener:

[Jorg]

Thanks for the response, Guitargod1985. I do appreciate the insight into your position. As far as the options I mentioned, self-defense seems to be the only tenable position in my mind.

Just remember, if you are stroking them lovingly with an oily rag, you're simply performing maintenance.

As far as Freudian analysis, you can sleep soundly knowing that Siggy has been widely discredited and any interest you have in your mother is most likely not related to your interest in guns.

[jetman]

I have an Ohio CCW and their are no records of the guns you carry. They do fingerprint though.... as for the 4473, believe me they DO keep them as a record of ALL firearms purchased. I have a friend with an FFL and while he was getting his records audited the ATF agent had copies of every firearm I ever purchased from him. They asked him why I had so many firearms purchased since '93 ??? He explained I was a collector, and were purchased for my own personal collection. He also inquired about another customer of his who bought several AR lowers over the years, and what he was doing with those.

Don't believe for a minute they aren't tracking every firearm sale made.

[Robert Hairless]

I thought my black belt in sarcasm was something but Sensei Hairless I wish to study under you. That was truly masterful.

You laugh upon me? Calling me a Sen Sen leaves me breathless.

That rumor about implanting chips in fingers is absolutely true. Look closely at your fingertips and you will see the little ridges that conceal the wiring. I never start a rumor that isn't true. Have I ever lied to you before? Can you prove it?

[davepool]

" Maybe you think that it will be the straw the breaks the camel's back and gun owners will suddenly band together, but I suspect it will be very much what we see now. A lot of talk, infighting and no action."

JORG
I certainly hope it doesn't come down to the "last straw" and your right ,by that time it will be too late to do anything about it, we need to get together now, do what ever you can to support the cause, join and help fund the NRA,CCRKBA, GOA and all other organizations that defend our Constitutional rights. above all we need to behave in a rational (and legal) manner, because once they manage to convine the "sheeple" that the second amendment has been misinterpreted all these years, the first amendedment is right next door, and you kiss forums like this goodbye. I do agree with guitargod though, my right to defend myself ,by whatever means it takes, was not and is not given to me by any man or goverment

[ServiceSoon]

Implaniting chips is no laughing matter.

VeriChip who is approved by the FDA & offers programs to implant chips at child birth. Tommy Thompson (Not to be confused with Fred Thompson) is on the board of directors of the VeriChips parent company, Applied Digital Solutions. He also served on the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services during 2001 though 2005. Conflict of interest?

[antsi]

State A passes a shall-issue concealed carry law. This works out well. Lots of people who previously never considered owning or carrying, now do. Antis who said blood will run in the streets are proven wrong. Next election season, even more pro-RKBA legislators are elected and they vote for a Vermont-style carry law.

State B passes a shall-issue law. The socialists turn out to vote sobbing hysterically in record numbers on the next election day, while the pro-RKBA folks complacently sit on their butts, or naively vote for "snowball in Hades" third parties such as the > 20mm Exploding Ordnance Party, the Crew-Served Artillery and Total Anarchy Party, and the Full Auto Gold Standard Militia Party. President Hilarobama, the most rabidly anti-gun politician in history, is elected. An equally socialist legislature rubber stamps the "Enabling Law," and Dictator-for-Life Hilarobama figures out that the Red States' lists of CCW licensees are a great basis for rounding up dangerous subversives. All CCW licensees are put into camps where they are worked to death making Tofu burgers. States with "anyone can carry" laws, such as Vermont and Alaska, have their entire populations interned in the camps.

The point? What happens next is the outcome of political processes. If we win, good things can happen. If we lose, bad things will happen. A state moving from no-carry to licensed carry is a partial victory and a move in the right direction, but it is not the end of the story. The antis will always fight back and try to screw with us. The future always depends on what we do next. We have to pursue practical effective political goals and never let up.

[another okie]

To summarize:

1. A carry permit is not firearms registration, except in a few states.

2. Saying a permit is not firearms registration is just saying it's not. A person may say a permit is not firearms registration without denying that it gives the government information. Or without saying that we would prefer not to have to go through the process. Or without saying that the information may be used against us someday.

3. It is tiresome when people say something like "all you people saying it's not registration, what will you do when the government comes for your weapons?" That shifts the point of the discussion. Start another thread if you want to talk about that.

[AK103K]

What happens next is the outcome of political processes.
Sometimes it is, other times it isnt, regardless, its not necessarily always the outcome we expect, or from those we expect. I voted for Reagan, Bush, and the Shrub. The plants not because I really wanted to, but because I didnt like their opponents. Did it really matter? Not as far as I'm concerned, two of the three screwed us as gun owners, so far, and all of them will, as will all that follow, if it suits them.

Saying a permit is not firearms registration is just saying it's not. A person may say a permit is not firearms registration without denying that it gives the government information. Or without saying that we would prefer not to have to go through the process. Or without saying that the information may be used against us someday.
OK, I need some help here. Is the definition of "is" somehow involved here, or should we just say NO? :)

[antsi]

----quote------
I voted for Reagan, Bush, and the Shrub.
----------------

I'm sure you would have been happier with Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. Oh, well. Better luck next time.

In any case, whatever Reagan, Bush, and the Shrub did, they got in the position to do it as the result of a political process. What you're saying doesn't contradict my point, it reinforces my point.

[AK103K]

What? That those we vote in will screw us?

[Big45]

Sky falling pretty hard today...

[ReadyontheRight]

I agree with springmom. In states where specific firearm data is not collected, getting a carry license does not even mean that you own a gun. Just gives you the ability to carry one in case you do...

So if the politicians ever come 'round and outlaw handguns. Which houses will the enforcers of the new laws visit first?

We need eternal vigilance - particularly now that there are records of us down at City Hall.

[EricTheBarbarian]

You have a valid point. If they needed a starting point to look for who has guns, using concealed carry licenses is the best place to start if there is no firearms registration. However, it seems that hunting licenses could be used in the same way.

In Ohio, everytime they run your license plate it comes up that you have a concealed carry permit. You can bet they assume you are carrying a gun.

Another thing Ive thought about is that concealed carry permits could someday be used to establish that owning or bearing arms is not an individual right. If it was an individual right would you have to ask permission to be able to carry? The supreme court has already established that driving is not a right and it does requires a license. Just some food for thought.

[Guitargod1985]

As far as Freudian analysis, you can sleep soundly knowing that Siggy has been widely discredited and any interest you have in your mother is most likely not related to your interest in guns.

LOL. OOPS! I guess that's what they meant by "freudian slip."

Regarding driving being a privilege and not a right: Even if the BoR had had an 11th amendment stating "No person shall be deprived the use of a horse and buggy" we would have some people say that the Founding Fathers couldn't possibly have foreseen the advent of the automobile.

[Robert Hairless]

Implaniting chips is no laughing matter.

VeriChip who is approved by the FDA & offers programs to implant chips at child birth. Tommy Thompson (Not to be confused with Fred Thompson) is on the board of directors of the VeriChips parent company, Applied Digital Solutions. He also served on the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services during 2001 though 2005. Conflict of interest?

It is too a laughing matter. Every time I get fingerprinted my little fingertips start wiggling around mischievously. That wouldn't be such a bad thing if there's a piano handy and I could tickle the ivories.

Yeah, I know about those awful chips implanted at childbirth. It would seem less awful and rather a good idea if you were to explain that the chips are implanted in tags that are placed around the baby's cute little leg while in the hospital and are removed when the baby is taken home by the little tyke's proud parents. The parents laugh too, until the baby's first poo on them.

But none of the "Chips Implanted at Childbirth" guys ever explain--perhaps because they don't know-- that the chips don't get implanted into the child but into ID tags while the baby is in the hospital. It just would not be as good a story if told that way.

Here's the link to VeriChip's super secret scheme, which it publishes on its web site. (http://www.verichipcorp.com/images/halo_floorplan2.gif) If you look real carefully you see the tag, with its RFID chip implanted in the plastic, wrapped around the baby's leg.

The concept for those tags started before I was born. I know it because my doting mom and dad kept the one wrapped around my own really cute leg (No kidding, it's still cute as can be) when I was born. And I, sentimental old curmudgeon that I am, still have the little tags that the hospitals put around my kids' cute little legs. But, darnit, I can't get anyone to follow me around wherever I go or to track my thoughts. Here's what VeriChip says:

The Halo™ system is not just the leading infant protection product based on skin-sensing technology. It’s also the only system that offers staff tags for easy and secure bypass of exits, and the ability to locate infants at any time.

Among the primary purposes of those tags is to prevent mixups in the hospital and baby loss from them. Most mothers like to make sure that the baby they take home is the one they delivered and many of them don't like it if the baby is stolen. Their opinions might change when the child is 15 years old but that's they way they feel when the baby is brand new.

Ain't it embarrassing when a wicked conspiracy turns out to be random electronics that passed through the gaps in the tinfoil beanie? Not a good idea to walk near Neon signs until the beanie gets patched.

Far more dangerous, by the way, is Fish 'n Chips. Hairless' Third Rule of Gastronomy is "Never eat in a restaurant with a menu that says Fish Sandwich." If they don't want me to know the kind of fish, I don't want to eat it.

[Soybomb]

I have permits from 2 states and haven't been fingerprinted...

That said I also know several people that have permits and dont own any guns. And honestly at that I think its just a waste of time to worry about a far fetched confiscation scenario when there is already a war of attrition going on. While you think about confiscation day its already impossible to buy a machine gun made after 1986. The artificially created market means that your average working guy can't buy a FA gun. Suppressors are heavily regulated, illegal in several states and require you pay a $200 tax on them. Some states already have registration databases and have used those to send "hey we know what you have letters" to people when laws change and their guns are no longer legal. I think we need to focus on the problems we actually have that are already slowly eroding our rights before we start thinking of what might happen one day.

[News Shooter]

Folks, move to MA and you won't need a tin foil hat. Not only do they implant a microscopic transmitting locater chip in your finger when you get fingerprinted for your LTC, it also contains a chip with a direct debit to your checking account. At tax time they simply remove all the funds from your account or any other time the governor needs money for a new car or something.

And in MA every single gun is registered whether you buy it at a store or from an individual. It's called the form FA-10 and it is not imaginary.