My Friend is an Idiot

Friend of mine bought a gun in his home state. All legal. Then he does something very stupid - he goes to New York City and carries the gun on his person!!!. While eating his pizza, the place gets raided for drugs.

He has a court date, is out of $5000 bail and the city has another gun added to its collection. I assume if he's convicted, his gun buying days are over. Nice guy. No record. Just a little short on common sense.

My question is - Is the illegal concealed carry of a firearm a felony in New York?

while I don't know for sure, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "yes."


He might be able to plea bargain to a misdemeanor though, depending on how nice the prosecutor feels like being.

I am SHOCKED that a citizen would consider NYC dangerous, do the people of the great state of Alabama not listen to the news? Mr Rudy cleaned up that whole city singlehandly, no crime there. Now seriously, kiss that gun gone and hope your buddy lawyers up and get out of state in one piece.

He's looking at criminal possession of a weapon, depending on what he was carrying and how the DA feels, he may be facing a felony.

Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D felony, which is applicable to him if he had a high cap magazine in the gun(over 10 rounds).
Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree is a class C felony, but they would have to prove criminal intent.

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menuf.cgi

Click on Laws of New York and search for it, I can't get direct links.

LAWYER UP!!!

Is he smart enough to lawyer up??

In order for your friend to possibly have any gun buying future he needs to get it dismissed (not likely, why should the DA do this with a slam dunk case ) or plea to a misdemeanor (best bet). If he gets off with a misdemeanor some states may make a "weapons charge" a disqualifier for a carry permit or even firearms purchase.

Hmmmm... He is not brandishing, and is eating in a restaurant and patted down? Where was the probable cause?

I think his best bet is to get a probable cause case. They had no probable cause to search him. Might work....

he goes to New York City

You're right - he is an idiot :rolleyes:

Knowing your state gun laws and other state laws would've prevented this.

my cousin's son in law did the same thing only he got caught in Boston. This was
a week before I told him not to come to Ma as his carry permit from his state was invalid in Ma.

Sounds like he played the odds and lost. I wonder if a positive outcome in the heller case would help him? Definitely lawyer up.

I'm gonna follow this one. Keep us updated.

Forget internet chat rooms. Your friend needs to call a lawyer. A good one. If he gets convicted of a felony it's going to severely screw up his life in many ways, not just his firearms ownership.

Pushing your luck for no reason is not good, kinda like idiots I know who always drive 20 miles an hour over the limit. Sure, fun while it lasts, but the penalty for getting caught ain't worth it.
Something else to think about - if you are carrying in a no carry area, then any justifiable shoot you get into becomes instant criminal activity. No matter how good/clean/justified, you're hosed.

There is a reason its called "the empire state"

What was the probable cause for searching him in the first place? (He was in a place that was open to the general public) Was his name on the search warrant? If not the NY DA can say goodbye to that case. But he is going to need a good lawyer.

Thanks guys for the info. He lawyered up last Friday and hopefully he'll keep his mouth shut.

Good luck. Once again this is a reason why we need national reciprocity. He should be allowed to carry his gun everywhere. Unfortunately he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Either way I hope he gets off as he is exercising his rights as a human being and they are enforcing unconstitutional laws by arresting him.

I don't believe probable cause is the standard. It would be more like a Terry stop, and "reasonable suspicion" is all the police would need to pat him down. It is a lower legal standard.

He is in a tough spot. The whole 'probable cause' thing will probably not fly. He was in an establishment when it was raided b/c of a search warrant.

He needs to get one hell of a lawyer. Ron Kuby is supposed to be a top notch criminal defense attorney in NYC. Good luck.

What was the probable cause for searching him in the first place?

As Redneck 07 said everyone present gets patted down when a warrant is served. Absolutely legal.

Good luck. Once again this is a reason why we need national reciprocity. He should be allowed to carry his gun everywhere. Unfortunately he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Amen.

It's not probable cause, it's a TERRY FRISK for "WEAPONS" only. And since the place was being raided, that's reasonable.


What kind of place was he eating where it got raided?????

(A crackhouse?)

i guess i don't understand why the 2ND AMENDMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA isn't valid in that HELL HOLE callled NEW YORK CITY... that's just one more reason i'm not voting for rudy:mad::mad:....

he made a calculated risk and it bit him in the ass is what it sounds like to me

he made a calculated risk and it bit him in the ass is what it sounds like to me

Sounds about right to me too. Having a NYS permit and working in NYC often, you won't find me carrying there on a bet.

Ron is top notch alright and thusly gets top dollar too. He'd be the one to hire if the funds were there.

If he looses, I think quite possibly it's a year mandatory.

Rudy didn't make it illegal to carry in NYC. It happened long before he was even a DA there. (And no, he's not getting my vote either.)

I just sent a PM perpster. He will know for fact!

I gotta say. When I think of traveling, I verify the laws. Then, I comply with the laws.

Doc2005

You're right, he's an idiot.

Too bad your friend wasn't a cop, then the police would be buying him drinks, holding open doors, and giving him restaurant tips (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3443145#post3443145) rather than hauling him off to Rikers island. :rolleyes:

Best of luck to your friend, he will need it.

What Tasco74 said.+1

Much of what's been posted is on the ball. Misd/Fel depends on what the DA charges and will allow a plea to. Frisk for officer safety during SW execution will probably pass muster. His best hope is a lawyer. If I were the DA I'd be wondering at the coincidence of an out of stater, with a gun, just happening to be in a drug location at the time a SW happens. Might be an innocent explanation, but it looks a bit odd.

if he was carrying he should have a hcp so he should know not to carry to ny or hawaii they are very ungun friendly

I'm forced to agree with others on here for the probable cause. Not to mention Mens Rhea(mind set, criminal intent). Get a lawyer who is well versed in guns. Talk to the NRA or some other group, thuogh a member he may not be, he still might find some help or at least a reference to a lawyer who knows whats up.

IANAL... But there's a few things going against your friend with this

1st and foremost, the only License recognized in NYC is the license they issue. One from the bordering counties, out of state etc, are a no go. Secondly. In order to even own a handgun in this fine state, you need a handgun license. This is muddy, certain licenses are recognized in other counties, others are not. I believe NYC does not have reciprocity with anyone.

But this is just what I've pulled together while studying the laws here

1. Stay out of New York City. I went there to go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Great arms and armor collection. That accomplished, I need not return.

2. Stay out of questionable places, even where you can LEGALLY carry. Most trouble is avoidable merely by staying away from dubious people and places. Be discriminating in your acquaintances. You can't pick your family, but you sure can avoid them if they're bad news.

3. If you're going to go to cesspits like Chicago and New York, obey the law. It's no guarantee that you won't get screwed, just SLIGHTLY less likely. Remember Amadou Diallo and Patrick Dorismond. You don't have to commit ANY crime to end up shot dead by the cops in NYC.

In NYC???
That's a mandatory 3.5 years in NYC for carrying unregistered, loaded gun.

Yes, your friend is a dumbA$$.

Tasco 74
i guess i don't understand why the 2ND AMENDMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA isn't valid in that HELL HOLE callled NEW YORK CITY... that's just one more reason i'm not voting for rudy


The laws were in the books before Rudy. Dinkins and Bloomberg are a threat to gun owners. Dinkins passed the NYC assault rifle ban.

Of course he needs to lawyer up.

If he's not a NY state resident, and lives out of state, why not just stay out of the state? Will they come after him in his own state?

If I was looking at 3.5 for exercising a constitutional right, I'd just stay out of NY for the rest of my days. $5k would be a small price to pay.

Tell him to get a lawyer... First time offender, no previous record, maybe he will get off light. The drug raid worries me, as it might "taint" an otherwise harmless person as being part of a broader drug crime. Jack McCoy doesn't like gun people...

Gee, no body on this board ever carried where they probably shouldn't have.

I can't remember how many times I have heard people claim here that they would take their chances in many different ways.

Hmmmm... He is not brandishing, and is eating in a restaurant and patted down? Where was the probable cause?Well for us to know whether or not the search was lawful would require information not known to us, and most likely not known to the OP. However, if I were going to speculate based on the info provided I would say that since the place was "raided" it sounds like they had a search warrant for the premises. Also based on the statement that it was being "raided" for "drugs" it's likely that the officers had established PC to the magistrate that the location was frequented by criminals involved in drug trafficking. Therefore any search of people at the business for weapons would be reasonable when securing the premises for the search, further the warrant may have specified that people in the business may be searched for evidence of narcotics trafficking. Again, that is speculation based on the little bit of information provided, which may or may not be accurate.

My guess would be that this guy screwed himself big time, and is unlikely to suppress the firearm evidence.

1. - he got's to lawyer up

2. - he takes a drug test - prove he's not a druggie and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time

3. - squeaky clean record and other evidence of outstanding citizenry (does he volunteer? Give blood? Married 20 yrs? Upstanding businessman?)

4. - was he an idiot just this once, in just this way? Or does he present as a garden-variety 24-7 moron? (sorry, but I know people who 3 words into a conversation with them you know this person is a goof). In other words is he a person who has common sense and keeps their life in order, has their wits about them and their head in the game, who just made an honest mistake?

5. - (most likely) plea deal to misdemeanor, save the city time and hassle of a trial. DA takes a look at all the forgoing and says "Yeah, guy lives out of state, not a druggie, clean record and has a "life", not worth my time taking him off the streets since he doesn't live here anyway... couple nights in jail and a big @$$ fine, few years probation, Ok, we'll call it square". MAYBE.

IMHO the search will stand up in court, the cops were serving a warrant on the place, and he was there, that's reason enough to search most likely. He is SLAM DUNK GUILTY if the facts are as you presented them. The DA WILL WIN if this goes to court, and the best strategy would be to convince him that it's not necessary and we can settle all this without a trial and be done with it for minimum hassle all around. Don't expect to be cut any slack, but if you can make their lives a little easier maybe they will go for it.

If he's missing any one of the above (i.e. can't pass the drug screen or doesn't have a spotless record) then he can kiss his 2A rights goodbye forever IMHO. Good luck to you and your friend.

Yeah, guy lives out of state, not a druggie, clean record and has a "life", not worth my time taking him off the streets since he doesn't live here anyway

These are exactly the type of people that get convicted to the hilt!
Here's why:

It keeps the rest of the law-abiding citizens (generally speaking) like you and me in line by making an example of us!

It's horrible that a guy can go to jail because he is doing something permitted by the constitution, just because some liberal elites believe they know better. That being said, he knew NYC is a nightmare anti-gun city and he should have either followed their unconstitutional law or just stayed home. I've never been to NYC and hopefully never will.

Thank goodness!

Another violent, gun-carrying criminal off the streets thanks to our War on Drugs! :rolleyes:

Did he do this knowingly or should he reasonably have had knowledge of the firearms laws in NYC?

Does the pizza place serve beer or wine or other alcohol?

What kind of pizza place gets raided for drugs? Were the police after the business or after an individual that works there?

The 2nd does not cover concealed carry per se, just the right to keep and bear arms.

Unless the guy can play the plea bargain game in my opinion he's done. I'll say nothing about what he woulda/coulda/shoulda.

Does anyone have a link to any news report of this raid?

In NYC???
That's a mandatory 3.5 years in NYC for carrying unregistered, loaded gun.

Yeah, I was in NYC 2 days ago visiting my brother and they had many "3.5 years mandatory for an illegal handgun" posters up all over the subway. I'm unsure if it's just a scare tactic or if they actually do seek out that penalty for every case, but regardless, your friend needs a good lawyer.

Nil, the Mayor here is Bloomberg, do you really need to ask? lol

WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO CARES ABOUT THEIR PERSONAL SAFETY GO TO NYC IF IT IS ILLEGAL TO CARRY THERE??? IF ONE CHOOSES TO CARRY IN SMALLTOWN USA, THEN GOES TO NYC WITHOUT A WEAPON, THEY ARE JUST PLAIN NUTS! - Sorry about your friend - Hopes it works out as a misdemeanor.

Originally posted by cyclist: Did he do this knowingly or should he reasonably have had knowledge of the firearms laws in NYC?

Does the pizza place serve beer or wine or other alcohol?

What kind of pizza place gets raided for drugs? Were the police after the business or after an individual that works there?

The 2nd does not cover concealed carry per se, just the right to keep and bear arms.

Unless the guy can play the plea bargain game in my opinion he's done. I'll say nothing about what he woulda/coulda/shoulda.

Does anyone have a link to any news report of this raid?

Lots of restaurants in big cities are used to sell drugs out of. A few pizza parlors back in Chicago that I know of were raided. Same thing with a few McDonalds restaurants.

What does it matter if a pizza parlor sells alcohol or any of that. Dont we as Americans have the right to carry anywhere we wish as long as the owner of the establishment does not mind? Should we pass a law that says if the gast station/restaurant/bar/store sells soda-pop it is illegal to carry there? As soda-pop raises your blood sugar levels which can induce changes in behavior and motor skills.

I will agree he should know the legalities of where he carries. But as someone else pointed out many on this board have gone with a don't ask don't tell policy on whether carrying where they are is legal or not.

I do believe that the 2nd Amendment covers concealment of your arms. It also covers openly carrying them as well. I think most people here would agree with me.

Lots of restaurants in big cities are used to sell drugs out of. A few pizza parlors back in Chicago that I know of were raided. Same thing with a few McDonalds restaurants.

Talk about a "happy meal", anyway in all seriousness he has a lawyer, good step, as for NYC all I can say is that I pray Heller goes well.

Wow, reminds me of why I'll stay out of NY, CA, Chicago and others. May the FSM have mercy on his soul.

If he's not a NY state resident, and lives out of state, why not just stay out of the state? Will they come after him in his own state?
There are no states that I know of that do not honor extradition requests from other states, then of course there's "interstate flight to avoid prosecution" laws

But as someone else pointed out many on this board have gone with a don't ask don't tell policy on whether carrying where they are is legal or not.Many if not most of those comments are directed at places where it is not welcomed, not illegal

If he was carrying in defiance of what he feels is an unlawful law and has set himself up as a DC type test case he could be considered a hero to the cause, if he was simply carrying through sheer ignorance the OP has assessed him correctly.

What does it matter if a pizza parlor sells alcohol or any of that.

Unfortunately, in some states it is illegal to carry in a place of business that serves alcohol, even if you have a permit and you don't drink! North Carolina is one of those stoopid states :fire:.

I wish your friend the best of luck. It appears if he is very lucky, he may get the charges reduced to a misdemeanor with probation. Very lucky, because NYC is a rabid anti-gun commie H___hole. And like another poster said, if he was carrying loaded with eeeeevil hi-cap mags (11+) (especially if it was a Glock), I'd say he's up the creek.

Gee, no body on this board ever carried where they probably shouldn't have.

Yeah, but that mainly has to do with discrepancies in state laws, like you didn't realize that you couldn't carry in a bar, courthouse, or the like, not NYC which I think all gun owners as a whole, know you cannot carry in.

http://a32.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/4/m_6a6b9d28604e92809d78685bae1e8c57.jpg

http://a897.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/46/m_b29a24adc83919867f0793d90de50928.jpg

The Amadou Diallo case shouldn't be used as an illustration of poor police work in NYC.

He ran away from the cops and pulled a small black object from his pocket.
He did this in a poorly lit vestibule.
It turned out to be a wallet, as my picture shows it could easily also be a gun.
The gun shown is a .25acp Berretta clone.

My old friends in nyc always bring that case up but they do not know a .25acp from a .45acp

Most THR members know far more then NYC police and DA and Prosecutors when it come to guns......

It is my understanding it is a mandatory year in jail for a gun but I have not been there in a long time.

Drew Barrymores mom and David Crosby got off though, all you need is hundreds of thousands of dollars and connections:barf:

If we win big in the Heller case maybe I can go visit home again.:fire:

FWIW:

Folks I'm an old fart senior citizen .. I'm probably semi-senile and making stupid decisions seems to be an ever increasing way of life for me...

BUT:

I'm still smart enough, and have been for decades, to know you DO NOT carry a firearm illegally in NEW YORK CITY, OR WASHINGTON, DC.

There are no if's and's and but's for the average cc citizen regarding taking a firearm into one of these two cities (probably more I'm not aware of) unless you are 100% legal to do so.

Your friend is indeed an idiot. I'm afraid he is about to learn a very expensive lesson..

JMOFO

J.Pomeroy

Yeah, but that mainly has to do with discrepancies in state laws, like you didn't realize that you couldn't carry in a bar, courthouse, or the like, not NYC which I think all gun owners as a whole, know you cannot carry in.

Um, I have read many stories on this board and others of people carrying regardless of the laws of a City or State laws for ethical reasons, and disregard for what are viewed as unconstitutional infringements...

How many times have I read " I'd rather be judged bt 12 than carried by 6" here?

And "Concealed is concealed"...?

I don't know romma, how many time have you seen that statement given as the consensus of the board?

I'd be interested if you could also link to some of those threads

sounds like your friend is in deep but with a good lawyer and fight for the misdemeanor

I don't know romma, how many time have you seen that statement given as the consensus of the board?


I never claimed it was a consensus of the board. Individual statements often enough.

The threads with these declarations are numerous and If I can find time to search today I will..

Keep in mind, that the same search features that are available to me, are available to all!

Nice to know I have to back up or prove a statement here when I am fairly certain there would at least be a consensus here that knows I am right about seeing various statements often enough!

Keep in mind, that the same search features that are available to me, are available to all!Keep in mind it is you making these claims not all of us

Nice to know I have to back up or prove a statement here when I am fairly certain there would at least be a consensus here that knows I am right about seeing various statements often enough!Isn't generally accepted that when you make statements of fact that you are prepared to back up those facts

We have also seen statements about shooting people for breaking into cars, there have been questions posed about what the best 12ga ammo for people would be.
There are many many different types of comments made on these boards, do you suppose that they all are indicative of the board in general?
Why are you so adamant about having someone come here and make a comment supporting breaking the law?

The comment I have seen similar to the ones you are crying out for have dealt with employers and retail establishments.

And as I have said
If he is setting himself up as a test case, more power to him

If he simply carried because he forgot or didn't research the law then he was an idiot, but I still hope he come out OK

Why are you so adamant about having someone come here and make a comment supporting breaking the law?


I am not! I have merely stated that I have seen and read plenty of material here.

The comment I have seen similar to the ones you are crying out for have dealt with employers and retail establishments.



Who's Crying out?

As I have said, when I have extra time (searching does take some time),

I will!

Oh, if I am wrong and imagined reading quotes and statements over the last several years, I will humbly admit it!

And finally, where in my statements did I claim This?


There are many many different types of comments made on these boards, do you suppose that they all are indicative of the board in general?

You have a CCW. You are "law-abiding". You happen into a non-gun area. You are not there for nefarious reasons. You are not a criminal. Unfortunately, we have all of these "trigger words" so misused by the media. "He was carrying a gun"!


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=288533&highlight=carrying+illegally

As one of my instructors stated during my first class when NM enacted CCW: "I have been carrying, both legally and illegally, for the past 18 years." Many of us gave a knowing chuckle.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=310765&page=3

That's just two in 5 minutes of searching! If you require more, let me know!

BTW, in none of my posts or "claims" have I condoned carrying illegally... I simply acknoledged it is done by some.

Granted I am someone who has a habit of reading into statements

Do these words look familiar? My point being that it is easy apparently misconstrue someones point...

Just a thought ...
Go for Jury trial and go for jury nullification.
(no man should be convicted of unjust and unconstitutional law)

Kinda "shoot for a moon" or "all or nothing" move ...

Probably highly unlikely though ...

didnt know that curtis, i thought if the sign was up and posted it was up to you as to if you wanted to disarm or not i mean it is called CONCELDE(sp) for a reason lol how are the store owners going to know if you are carrying?!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255566&highlight=carrying+limits

Where'd you go? :uhoh:

Hoping Retired will come back on and update us, but I'm beginning to think he won't. Odds are, his friend either couldn't pass the drug test or has a record of getting into trouble, and thus has hosed himself permanently with his little New York gun toting expedition.

FWIW:

I had a buddy who was a Miami, Fl. leo back in the late 1960's.. He took his family on vacation in N.Y. and while passing thru New York City he was stopped for a moving violation and somehow it became known he was carrying a firearm. (He wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack, he might have offered the info, I don't remember).

He told me that he came VERY CLOSE to going to jail for the offense.. The NY fuzz did let him go, but scared the crap out of him in the process. He told me he would NEVER do that again, and from that moment forward to this I remember that story and you won't catch me carrying a firearm in NY City..

IF the gun laws were that strict in the late 1960's I doubt they are any less so today..

JP

i mean it is called CONCELDE(sp) for a reason lol how are the store owners going to know if you are carrying?!Remeber I said that these comments are generally directed at employers and retail establishments
I can show you that comment if you like

Where'd you go?My job, you might have heard about that:rolleyes:

You have a CCW. You are "law-abiding". You happen into a non-gun area. You are not there for nefarious reasons. You are not a criminal. Unfortunately, we have all of these "trigger words" so misused by the media. "He was carrying a gun"!That thread was about the OPs dislike of the word crminal, nothing more than a semantic diatribe on wordsmithing and about how some criminals are simply misunderstood which s why we shouldn't use the word criminal:rolleyes:

One of the posts that was highlighted by your search, in that same thread, gotta wonder why you chose to overloookit
Not sure of the answer, since I'm no fan of anarchy, and having each of us define legality in that fashion is simply endorsing anarchy,Hardly an endorsement
And a good portion of that thread dealt with the legal vs right paradox of the Holocaust, and not guns at all

As one of my instructors stated during my first class when NM enacted CCW: "I have been carrying, both legally and illegally, for the past 18 years." Many of us gave a knowing chuckle.Can't comment on that one because the link you provide sends me back to this discussion and I can't find that comment here, much less a page three

The threads with these declarations are numerous and If I can find time to search today I will..
Three is not numerous, especially when two do not fit your description and one is not a valid link

I am not! I have merely stated that I have seen and read plenty of material here.I have merely asked you to provide a link to these plenty that you so adamantly claim are here (the ones about carrying illegaly)

Who's Crying out?
That would be you

And finally, where in my statements did I claim This?
That called a question romma not an accusation that you made a statement
As I said those comments have been made here before,should they be repeated?

BTW, in none of my posts or "claims" have I condoned carrying illegally... I simply acknoledged it is done by some.OK now it's my turn
Where have I implied that you condone illegal carry
It shouldn't be hard to find where I have many times

Do these words look familiar? My point being that it is easy apparently misconstrue someones point...

I have read many stories on this board and others of people carrying regardless of the laws of a City or State laws for ethical reasons, and disregard for what are viewed as unconstitutional infringements...

How many times have I read " I'd rather be judged bt 12 than carried by 6" here?

And "Concealed is concealed"...?
I see you are good at taking quotes out of context, but what have I misconstrued in your comment that was made in support of this commentBut as someone else pointed out many on this board have gone with a don't ask don't tell policy on whether carrying where they are is legal or notNot sure which comment he was supporting
And intended to directly refute my commentMany if not most of those comments are directed at places where it is not welcomed, not illegal

Three is not numerous, especially when two do not fit your description and one is not a valid link



I mean, I don't feel I have to keep digging to suit you... I provided you with three examples in a short time. I don't feel I need to defend my position any longer.

So, the question is if my state repealed CCW would I still carry? For only a $300 fine (misdemeanor), I get my gun back, and probably a slim chance of actually getting caught? Yea I'll carry.

Out of spite though I'd probably just start carrying open just to rub it in.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=263937&highlight=gave+knowing+chuckle&page=2






Senior Member



Join Date: 04-07-06
Location: Indiana
Posts: 164 As of right now, I would say that I would continue to carry.

But as we know, we all talk big sometimes, so, If your shall issue state actually repealed CCW, many of us might have to think long and hard about the possibility of doing jail time and being away from our families and friends. I love my guns, but I love my family also.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=263937&highlight=gave+knowing+chuckle&page=2

I mean, I don't feel I have to keep digging to suit you..many people resort to that when their story doesn't hold up
I provided you with three examples in a short time.Did you even read my response?
I don't feel I need to defend my position any longer.Of course you don't

As one of my instructors stated during my first class when NM enacted CCW: "I have been carrying, both legally and illegally, for the past 18 years." Many of us gave a knowing chuckle.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=263937&highlight=gave+knowing+chuckle

Here is that Broken link Joab.

And Actually three threads are numerous! And all I care to look into...

And Actually three threads are numerous!Not when they don't support your argument and one even supports mine and not when you claim that there are dozens
And not when you actually look up the definition of numerous

What if...Your state repealed CCW tomorrow

So we have a discussion on the semantics of the term criminal
A comment about carrying in a retail establishment against their wishes but without their knowledge (remember I already disqualified that sort of comment)
And now a hypothetical discussion o the repeal of CCW laws, where one or two people imagined that they would carry anyway

I just wondering where I would go to find these "dozens" of post advocating breaking laws that you accuse the board of making

So, getting back on topic, has the idiot friend got an attorney yet?
Any updates on the situation?

So we have a discussion on the semantics of the term criminal
A comment about carrying in a retail establishment against their wishes but without their knowledge (remember I already disqualified that sort of comment)
And now a hypothetical discussion o the repeal of CCW laws, where one or two people imagined that they would carry anyway

I just wondering where I would go to find these "dozens" of post advocating breaking laws that you accuse the board of making


Geez, I never claimed the board broke the laws, only individuals of the board claimed to have.

As far as you disqualifying carrying in a retail establishment, you are biased IMO to judge "semantics"... Actually in many states if a sign is posted and you carry regardless into those premises you are breaking the... Not all.


And I did provide more than 3 if you go back and read the rest of the thread.

He ran away from the cops and pulled a small black object from his pocket.
He did this in a poorly lit vestibule.

How do you "run" from someone IN A VESTIBULE?

Note, you don't say he LEFT the vestibule. What did he do? Run in circles?

The inadequately trained (by the city's admission) cops panicked and riddled an unarmed, unresisting, basically unmoving, man.

The way to avoid having this happen to you is to avoid cesspits like NYC and Chicago. It's hard for me to completely avoid Chicago, but when my mother dies, my trips to Chicago end FOREVER. After that, if my relatives want to see me, they can come to Ohio. Otherwise, it was nice knowing them.

Your losing it romma
Geez, I never claimed the board broke the laws only individuals of the board claimed to have. ***??
I never said that you said that any member broke the law or even claimed to
You really need to get an online dictionary first thing for you to look up is "advocating"

As far as you disqualifying carrying in a retail establishment, you are biased IMO to judge "semantics"Go back and read slower
The semantic link and the retail link are separate links
The retail establishment comment was disqualified way back when I said that these comments are usually directed at carrying in retail establishments/
Yopu should remember that comment it's the one that you started in on

Actually in many states if a sign is posted and you carry regardless into those premises you are breaking the... Not all.But was that the point the commenter was trying to make or are you revising it to fit your argument?

And I did provide more than 3 if you go back and read the rest of the thread.Which would have been a nice start if they had actually supported your argument

Sorry Joab, it has become apparent to myself that you just don't like to admit that plenty of people that have posted on this board either admitted to, or alluded to carrying illegally at different times.

My end of the argument is closed based on your inabillity to admit that such things have been posted here on THR , and that I have disclosed examples for you.

If a law is unconstitutional, is it illegal to break that law?

If laws are written in such a way as to make it functionally impossible to comply with the laws then how can one remain lawfull?

And regarding the I.F. (I.F. = Idiot Friend), is he out on bail/bond or is he buried in the tombs in NYC awaiting council?

I think I'll go hang out on a bicycle forum someplace, much less stressfull, same amount of bickering but somehow arguing about chainlines and tire choices just doesn't stress me out as much as Constitutional Infringements do.

Damned if I do,
damned if I don't,
might as well ride my bike
until I get hit by a truck.

My end of the argument is closed based on your inabillity to admit that such things have been posted here on THR , and that I have disclosed examples for you.I see that it is you that cannot admit failure.
I have pointed out the fallacy of your argument you refuse to accept it

I have not said that those types of comments are not posted here, but if there had been dozens of accounts then surely you could have come up with at least a few legitimate examples

I have to wonder at the reason for the comment
Are you saying that we are hypocrites for not saying that now?
Are you trying to encourage the board to accept illegal actions?
Are you trying to bring the board down a notch
Or are you just arguing because you have nothing to say and feel the need to say it loudly?

You made a claim (dozens of such comments) and feel insulted that you are asked to back up that claim and then get bunched up when you can't.
Don't blame me, you're the one who made a claim before researching the validity of it
Hopefully this lesson will serve you well in your future debates

Also Joab, FWIW, Ask the Mods if you like to see how many threads have been locked or deleted by memebers that have admitted in one way or the other about carrying illegally..

I have to wonder at the reason for the comment
Are you saying that we are hypocrites for not saying that now?
Are you trying to encourage the board to accept illegal actions?


Who is the we you are talking about? I am not encouraging the board to do anything... Are you? Hypocrites for saying what exactly?


I feel my examples are more than legit!

I thought you closed your end of the discussion
Or was that another erroneous conclusion?

Who is the we you are talking about?If you ust think about that for a second I feel sure the answer will come to you

I am not encouraging the board to do anything... Are you?Well yeah
How about supporting the claims they make (they would mean you)

Hypocrites for saying what exactly?Now you are truly getting boring
NOT saying son NOT saying. Reread the comment slowly again

I feel my examples are more than legit!Even though their illegitimacy has been adequately pointed out

This has been fun kind of, but it is painfully clear that you are not following the conversation
Whether willfully or through simple inability to do so I don't know.
Don't really care at this point because it has become almost as boring as it is unproductive

Now my end of the discussion is closed, really
You may have the last word, I bet it'll be a doosie

I thought you closed your end of the discussion
Or was that another erroneous conclusion?




Well you got me on that one! Finally and the only way...

If you ust think about that for a second I feel sure the answer will come to you


Not sure still who the we are? Are you a team or something?

I ust thought about it...

I also see you failed to acknowledge the "fixed " link...

Well there's your doosie!

FX15,

x1 on your first comment.

Buel

'nuf.