These pictures and tales of perfect shooting


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woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 21, 2007, 11:03 PM
I`m having trouble believing some of these pics and tales of shooting accuracy here. I`m a member of a club here in my area and we have some superb gunners that are members. We shoot all around this area and it`s very seldom that at least 2 or 3 of our guys don`t walk away winners of any certain event. And I can`t remember when several of us didn`t at least earn the title of runner-up. On this sight there are always pics and statements made of some miraculous shooting and I`m not so sure that they`re ligitimate.

Handgun shooting is a monster compared to rifle shooting and statements like "2 1/2 inch groups at 20+ yards with my S@W 1911 .45" are everywhere on the high road. Now this is possible to do, I`m not saying that it isn`t, but there are also statements like" 2 inch group at 25+ yards with my Glock 22 .40 S@W." and pictures of paper plates with a little orange dot in the middle as targets with the orange nearly gone from the tightly placed group with writing on the target stating things like "25 yards while using my Taurus 357.

I`ve got the guys in the club to come to the high road and check it out and we`ve came to the conclusion that most of these pics and tales are false information. Now shooting a 2 inch group at 18-25 yards with open sights is possible but when I do i`m surprised. I`ve been to a lot of matches and I`ve seen many,many great shots in my life and I`ve also saw that a 2 inch group is almost a guaranteed trip into the next round accompanied by applause and many pats on the back; so how is it that so many people speak of this so commonly? I`m sorry but I just don`t believe it, not out of hand with no rest. I mean no offense but please:

Give me your thoughts on this matter.

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woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 21, 2007, 11:09 PM
I`m not really concerned with any specific gun and don`t want this to end up being a mine`s better, please fellows.:)

CZF
October 21, 2007, 11:09 PM
Shoot a Cz or SIG and see what accuracy is all about.
9mms have decnt accuracy out of a CZ.
The .40s are a cut above most .40s for shooting tight groups.

The 97B is a tackdriver at 20 yards or closer.

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 21, 2007, 11:15 PM
I`m not really concerned with any specific gun and don`t want this to end up being a mine`s better, please fellows.
In the hands with no rest is how we do it and how most matches that are shown on espn and there are never consistant 2 inch groups beyond the 18 yard mark that are shot with higher caliber weapons, never.

LarryS.
October 21, 2007, 11:21 PM
My guess there's a fair chance some of the range yardage estimations could be a little off as could the group sizes if eyeballed rather than measured.
Just my $0.02......

igpoobah
October 21, 2007, 11:23 PM
but there are also statements like" 2 inch group at 25+ yards with my Glock 22 .40 S@W."


then


I`ve got the guys in the club to come to the high road and check it out and we`ve came to the conclusion that most of these pics and tales are false information. Now I can shoot a 2 inch group at 18-25 yards with open sights with my Glock 22

Soooo, all the other Internet commando's are not to be believed.......unless it's you?

I find this comically ironic. And there's no need to get bent out of shape; I'm not attacking you, just an interesting observation...:neener:

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 21, 2007, 11:28 PM
igpoobah,
Now shooting a 2 inch group at 18-25 yards with open sights is possible but when I do i`m surprised
you got me, is this better?

Geno
October 21, 2007, 11:29 PM
Larry said:

My guess there's a fair chance some of the range yardage estimations could be a little off as could the group sizes if eyeballed rather than measured.

I also think it is because some people measure edge-to-edge versus others who measure center-to-center. Depending on what caliber one fires, that can make a big difference.

Here's the solution...pictures or videos. They worth a 1,000 words. Better yet have it witnessed and signed by a range officer. That is what I did.

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 21, 2007, 11:31 PM
Why didn`t you quote the complete sentence," but when I do I`m surprised"

I thought it was funny, i was waiting on that one, man you`re quick. There`s one more that leaves me open for trash talk if you look hard enough.

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 21, 2007, 11:33 PM
pictures or videos
Pictures mean nothing because I could shoot a target at point blank range and write whatever I felt like writing as far as the yardage. I know that most of these eagle-eyed shooters are ,,,,exagerating, just thought I`d see what others thought about it.

igpoobah
October 21, 2007, 11:35 PM
I was just pulling out the pertinent info, I like to keep it simple.

Geno
October 21, 2007, 11:44 PM
woodstock:

I have a cousin (in-law) who shot competition for the Air Force (early 1980s). One day my uncle says to me, "What 'til you see Jim shoot that new Llama custom-built .45! He can keep 1" groups at 100 meters off the bench".

So, I am standing there waiting for Jim to “choke” and make him out to be a liar...short of it, he held well under 1" at 100 meters, using target iron sights, hand-loaded hard cast lead, at about 600 FPS. If I had not seen it with my own eyes, I would say liar. But, how much practice did it take?

For my part, I have purchased over 35, model 1911s in the past 3 years. I sold most because they would not shoot. I will not keep a 1911 that will not group or if it is unreliable. Too, I was shooting thousands of rounds per month. On average, I used to shoot 200 to 300 rounds each day that I drove to the office. Most weeks I drove in 5 to 6 days. That's a lot of practice. That’s a lot of expense.

Now, following my neurosurgery I seriously struggle to keep 1" at 25 feet. That's all fine with me. I am still in recovery mode from my 35th surgery. As I see it, if someone lies about their firearms, or their firearms ability, they are the liar, not me, and if they can live with it, so be it.

Doc2005

Tom Servo
October 22, 2007, 12:21 AM
Actually, I've seen people shoot groups at 15 FEET and claim it was 15 yards. That's quite common--it may be a deficiency in our educational system.

What you're describing, if true, is phenomenal shooting. Phenomenal, but not impossible. I've seen things like that done, and when I do, I make it a point to ask the shooter for advice :)

My vision is pretty much useless past about 15 yards for pinpoint accuracy with a handgun, but up until then I can group pretty well with a handgun. On a good day, with a good gun and warmup time, 2" is no big problem.

I have done better at longer ranges, but that's usually been either a stroke of divine providence, or just a situation where every factor has gone JUST right.

tnieto2004
October 22, 2007, 12:26 AM
1" group with a .45 at 100 meters?!?! I am WAYYYYY behind .. :banghead:

Deer Hunter
October 22, 2007, 12:27 AM
It's not too bad shooting at 50 feet, which is what Texas A&M's shooting team practices at. There are guys on the team that do so with great accuracy. As for me, I'm lucky to get all mine under the 7 ring. A couple 10s on a target is wonderful!

armoredman
October 22, 2007, 12:34 AM
The pics I post are accurate and truthful. I am sorry if people don't believe, but hey, it's the Internet. Nobody has to believe.
Here is one, yes this was shot at 25 yards, end of the indoor range, but you can see a worse group taped over. That was the best one, phenomenal, or I wouldn't have photographed it.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/czprc120906.jpg

This is a representative of a group on a not so good day.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PICT0002.jpg

This was one of those "what the heck went wrong" days. But, it's the truth, and the writing on the target is correct, including the load.

I can only hope that most others here do take the High Road, and post honest groups.

atblis
October 22, 2007, 12:52 AM
Why did you stop at 3?

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 22, 2007, 01:01 AM
he held well under 1" at 100 meters, using target iron sights, hand-loaded hard cast lead
Like you said, you were a kid because this,my friend, is bull____

Caimlas
October 22, 2007, 01:01 AM
I also think it is because some people measure edge-to-edge versus others who measure center-to-center. Depending on what caliber one fires, that can make a big difference.

Inside or outside edge? Personally, I'm measuring the full spread (outside edge), and 2" at 25 yards on paper is something I have a difficult time doing with open sight rifle from a standing position, never mind with a pistol. I'm not a bad shot - I can group 1" pretty consistently with a rifle at 100 yards and good ammo, provided I have a low mag scope - but I do have fairly poor eye sight and vision problems.

Still, 2" at 25 yards is a bit of a stretch. Once or twice, and on rare occasion, sure. With any sort of regularity, though, you're going to be a one-in-a-hundred-thousand. There are many a Master marksman who can not boast that kind of proficiency; heck, a handgun that can achieve 2" at 25 yards isn't all that common.

Guns R Tools
October 22, 2007, 01:26 AM
Here is mine.
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/bce5a46bcb.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
I just got my SW model 41. Used.

It was my first time shooting it.

Target was set at 30 feet. Shooting off hand with both hands.

I tried 3 different brands of ammo.

Federal bulk and Remington was from walmart value pack.
CCI competition from local store (about $16 per box of 100).

CCI does feel more consistent shot to shot in terms of recoil.

Sorry for size of image. My shrinking skill is weak.

Guns R Tools
October 22, 2007, 01:37 AM
sorry double post.

Blarelli
October 22, 2007, 02:00 AM
I'll be honest. I'm not a great shot, but i'm not bad either. Shooting without a rest, with my old ruger p90 at 20 yards, I have had about a 3 inch group, but that doesn't happen very often. It's usually more like a 5 or 6 inch group. A 1.5 inch group from my 22/45 at the 50 foot range doesn't surprise me, but still doesn't happen terribly often.

RyanM
October 22, 2007, 02:29 AM
Bad range estimation is probably a big part of it. Like here's the best group I've ever shot in my entire life.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65896&stc=1&d=1193034490

But I have to honestly say I cannot remember what the range was. I think it was around 10 yards, but it may have actually been 7 or even 5. All I know for certain is it was no closer than 5 yards, .22 LR Federal bulk pack, standing, Ruger Mk.II with 4" taper barrel. I also know that with my most recent range trip, I was doing about 2" groups at 10 yards with the same pistol and ammo, but that was definitely an off day. My hands were shaking like I'd just drank an entire carafe of coffee (exaggeration).

bigred82
October 22, 2007, 02:56 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/jaronhudgins/P226/IMG_6971.jpg

That's my best. Under 2" at 10yds. Give me enough practice and experience - and it will get smaller. ;)

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 22, 2007, 03:56 AM
Right guys, 2 inches at ten yards is a completely different world than two inches at 20+ yards. You guys get the point, I can see that you know exactly what I`m talking about.

Notice how this thread has had very limited response? That`s exactly what my gun club friends said would happen. It kinda scares those "experts" off if you know what I mean.

I will say this to the guy with the .22. With a .22 you should shoot much better groups than with a higher caliber. The recoil and velocity play a big part in the great accuracy of the .22 and other small calibers.

Did you know that the .22 was once and may still be the caliber of choice for mercs. I watched a special report several years ago that had an ex-merc. speaking about it. He spoke highly of the ricochet effect with a noggin shot. That`s about all I can remember.

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 22, 2007, 04:02 AM
I`ll see if I can load up some of my match target pics in a day or two and start a thread that invites pics and watch what will happen.

2ndamd
October 22, 2007, 04:41 AM
I shot 1" group twice at 25 yrds with a blued GP100 holding off hand and shooting single action. I was using 130 fmj WWB and the group shot low but, grouped well. It was a six shot group both times.

I have not been able to repeat this performance.....yet. But, I still keep trying :)

I love to shoot more than just own guns. The people at the range will ask me what I am doing to get my groups and I always try to help. some say I should be a friearms instructor.....maybe some day.

I always throw my targets away and try never to brag. Vainity is sure to lead to a fall. I use to compete in IDPA and had to quit because I was too competitive. Few things in life are more important than shooting to me. but, the Lord is more important. And I can not compete on a healthy level in shooting. I always want to be the best. And no matter how good I was I was not the best. heck even Rob Letham is NOT the best everyday :)

My friend, it is not important what these people say. Just be confident in your own abilities and recognize your own limitations. We all have strengths and opportunities for improvement. But none of that makes you, me, or your range friends any less of people.

Your brother in arms.....now go practice! :D




ps Some people come here just to shoot the bull. And we all have stepped in it before......some spread it around more than others.....hehehe. You know who you are.

ArchAngelCD
October 22, 2007, 05:08 AM
I`ve got the guys in the club to come to the high road and check it out and we`ve came to the conclusion that most of these pics and tales are false information. Now shooting a 2 inch group at 18-25 yards with open sights is possible but when I do i`m surprised. I`ve been to a lot of matches and I`ve seen many,many great shots in my life and I`ve also saw that a 2 inch group is almost a guaranteed trip into the next round accompanied by applause and many pats on the back; so how is it that so many people speak of this so commonly? I`m sorry but I just don`t believe it, not out of hand with no rest. I mean no offense but please:

Give me your thoughts on this matter.
Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it!

Sorry but that statement above is offensive.

* You came to this forum a short time ago.
* You name is so long it covers half the screen yet nobody said a word to you about it.
* For some reason you make 2 and 3 posts in a row. You can't seem to find the edit button yet nobody said a word to you about it.
* You have asked for help many times and have always gotten it including data and links.
* There is much more but I end it with, I truly feel you have some nerve calling some of the people here a LIAR. It is rude and very offensive.

Because this is the High Road I'll try to put this as nicely as possible but still get my point across. Just because you think the people you shoot with are great but they can't match some of the shooting being reported here DOES NOT MAKE THE REPORTS FALSE!! Did you ever stop to think the shooters might be shooting much more than you and for many more years? Do you shoot between 300 and 500 handgun rounds a week like I and many others do? You sir will not be getting any further help, answers or opinions from me even though I'm probably not one of the shooters you are talking about. Sometimes it's better to keep your thoughts to yourself if they speak poorly of others.

JohnnyBravo
October 22, 2007, 05:36 AM
I don't know what the other folks on this forum can do, but shooting from a combat stance, in a hurry, with a two handed grip I am VERY pleased when I can keep all my rounds on a paper plate at 25 yards.

Slowing down will usually let me shrink my groups to about 6 inches.

Using a rest will further shrink them, sometimes to as little as 2 or 3 inches, but not always, and I don't care.

Unless your goal is competition I think once you reach a certain level of accuracy you are better off exspending your effort on tactical training.

To steal a phrase from Evan Marshall, as long as I can shoot "two minutes of a felon", that is more than sufficient.

I learned to shoot a handgun from a former member of the U.S. Olympic Team so I have a great deal of respect for those that can shoot one inch groups at 25 yards. But it's not my cup of tea.

MPanova
October 22, 2007, 05:46 AM
woodstock would you call this BS

12 shots at 14 yards (im not sure what you would say the grouping is 1" 2"?)

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/gallery/122_15_01_07_5_34_12.jpg

Silvanus
October 22, 2007, 10:16 AM
Glock 22 .40 S@W

I don't know if you randomly picked any gun for an example or not, but Glocks are very accurate handguns. Everybody who says otherwise is simply a bad shot with them. I'm always wondering why people say H&Ks or Sigs, for example, are more accurate. I guess they want to justify their purchase or something...


Glock 17 @ 15m
http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/11/50/35/28/glocka10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=44&u=11503528)

Glock 17 @ 25m (I rarely shoot at more than 15m, I'm sure the gun is capable of better accuracy than this)
http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/11/50/35/28/glocka11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=45&u=11503528)

BTW, I can't do nearly as good with my BHP. The Glock is just perfect for me.



Did you know that the .22 was once and may still be the caliber of choice for mercs.

Yeah right...:rolleyes: Add a 3 at the end and it might be true.

atomd
October 22, 2007, 10:31 AM
When someone shoots an unusually good group, there's a much better chance they saved that target. If I shot 1000 5 shot groups last year and I only showed you my best target out of all of them, it would probably make me look like a much better shooter than I am....especially if I left out the fact that it was the best of 1000. I'm sure there's a tall tale here and there and some distance and measuring inconsistencies, but there are also some good shooters out there too...and we are only seeing their best.

armoredman
October 22, 2007, 10:54 AM
atbls, I shoot handloads 3 at a time for accuracy testing.
Silvanus, I qualify Expert/Distinguished Expert with Glock 17/19, and my CZs are more accurate for me. I hate the g-rock grip, feel, and trigger. Ain't that the beauty of America, all those nice choices.

Owen
October 22, 2007, 11:09 AM
You've never seen what a Bullseye GM can do, one handed have you?

Think 3-4" at 50 yards. Over and over and over.

hankdatank1362
October 22, 2007, 11:13 AM
Did you know that the .22 was once and may still be the caliber of choice for mercs. :barf:

Ghost Tracker
October 22, 2007, 11:32 AM
Doc2005,

that new Llama custom-built .45

In +35 years of shooting (NCAA Smallbore, IDPA, IPSC, etc.) I've NEVER read, heard or seen a combination of the words "Llama" and "custom".

And, with all due respect, a sub 1" group with iron sights from a .45 acp @ 100 yards puts your cousin well-beyond the talent of the best shooters in the world. From Ed McGivern to Todd Jarrett to Doug Koenig...nobody shoots that well.

Did I miss the sarcasm in your post, or do you expect us to believe it?!?

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 22, 2007, 11:35 AM
You`ve always got a negative remark to say on most of your posts. You`re one of those long time members that think you operate this forum. Well I`ve got news for you, YOU DON`T. So if you don`t have a comment dealing with the question and are only here antagonize people,skip over my threads if you don`t mind.As for my shooting abilities, I`m perfectly capable of handling myself on the range as well as my comrads. As for rounds shot, no I don`t shoot 500 rounds a week, I don`t see any reason for shooting that many rounds per week, seems like a waist of money to me. I do however shoot about 150 to 200 rounds per week out of different guns. But you know, I don`t need to explain myself to you. I`ve never called anybody any names,ever on any forum.

. If you`d take time to read this forum,you`d find that most of the comments agree and most of the pics shown, of some very good shooting i must add, are realistic. Our next match will be scheduled soon so I`ll make sure to send you an envite if you`d like. You made the comment as to the inability of my friends and I. Come and see for yourself. hahaha

I`m sure you`re an eagle-eye marksman and you were offended by this thread because you`ve said that you ordinarily shoot 2 inch groups out of hand with open sights at 25 yards in some of your other posts. Well,you should be on television with Massad Ayoob because he apparently sucks compared to you. Massad Ayoob only shot a 4 inch group in a 60 second timed round with his Sig Sauer P220 .45 at 15-18 and 22 yards. He`s only a world renowned gun writer and shootist. Maybe he could get some pointers from you.

Oh, but first he probably should become a senior member on the high road,especially before he questions any articles on YOUR website ,right.

Now go ahead and trash this forum like you`ve done one of my others.Or better yet,goodbye.

Sorry for this comment to all of you other guys who posted a relating comment. I normally just ignore people like this but this guy`s been annoying me for the entire week that I`ve been visiting.

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 22, 2007, 11:43 AM
Hey guys I`m serious. They had an hour long special and I think that it was a 60 minutes special on hired ?asassains? . They had a guy that they kept shadowed so you couldn`t see him and he said that he prefered the .22 caliber in his work. No joke. He also said that it was the most commonly used weapon of most of his comrads.

All I can say is that I saw the special and that`s exactly what was said. I`ll see if I can dig it up on the internet OK.

Sniper X
October 22, 2007, 11:45 AM
Let me preface this with two things,

One, people who don't measure yardage, probably are a little closer than they think.

And two, you might want to consider that most who tout great groups with a pistol at the 20~25yd mark are talking about using some form of rest, they are not talking off hand or they are either closer than they think, or lying.

Ghost Tracker
October 22, 2007, 11:59 AM
Any assassin who would appear on 60 Minutes, shadowed face or not, has about as much credibility as the guy who tries to convince his date that he works for the "Company" or is a member of the "Family". Anyone who would make those claims really ISN'T an operative of a mafiaoso because those who really ARE...would NEVER mention it, EVER.

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 22, 2007, 12:03 PM
Any assassin who would appear on 60 Minutes, shadowed face or not, has about as much credibility as the guy who tries to convince his date that he works for the "Company" or is a member of the "Family". Anyone who would make those claims really ISN'T an operative of a mafiaoso because those who really ARE...would NEVER mention it, EVER.
Well, I saw it regardless of its authentisity. They were actually at a camp. I`m trying to find it now. Anyway, I agree with you but I did see it.

Kimber1911_06238
October 22, 2007, 12:10 PM
Personally, 4"-5" groups at 50 feet is a good group for me. But then again, I don't practice as much as many people.

1" at 100 yards seems a little too good. Many rifles won't do that

woodstock72000@yahoo.com
October 22, 2007, 12:19 PM
Did you see the GA match a few weeks ago? This guy, I think his name was Scot Cummings, scored 9 hits out of 10 at 30 yards in 2.74 seconds. WOW He didn`t win overall but I liked the guy. He had a great natural stance. The spped trial was only one part of the match.

I like the obstacle courses myself. They`re more exciting to shoot. Stationary shooting can be a little boring after a while. I guess if you`re new to match shooting it woul be fun but I`ve grown a little tired of stationary shooting over the years. I`ll still shoot`m on occasion but I love the move and shoot matches. They`re more realistic to me. My brother`n`law is on our local Ice team with the police dept. and I`ve been trying to get him to get me in the door at one of their trials or certification sessions. Can`t wait to smokem. hahaha

Chem Geek
October 22, 2007, 12:34 PM
Well here you go, a P22 (3.4" barrel, 22LR) at 20 yards. If not for the one flier, it would have been a 10-shot 2" group. The range has marked distances, I did not use a rest, and it was standard open sights. My Sig 9mm has held 3" at 20 yards, and could probably do better with enough effort and practice. But then shooting 550 rnds or 22LR is still cheaper than 100 rnds of 9mm. :)

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r74/chem_geek/p22_20yd_ruined.jpg
(Should have stuck with 5 rnds, as I sent the flier off on the 9th shot. Got greedy! :neener:)


So if you can't do it, it must be bullsh^t huh? That's pretty arrogant. I've seen some excellent shooters, and have seen a few do better than 2" at 25yds, repeatedly. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it's not possible. Another thing to realize, is people are showing their best efforts, not their mediocre results. There's an old guy that runs an outdoor range in my area, he can hit a steel plate (24" square I believe) at 300 yards with iron sights on a 1911. Bet him $50 he can't do it within 3 shots, and he'll do it every time, usually on the first or second shot. :D

150-200rnds on different guns? That's not much practice at all. You don't see the need to practice more? Judging by how you claim these are all tales of bullsh^t and everybody must therefore be a liar, I see your need to practice.... ;)

the naked prophet
October 22, 2007, 12:43 PM
Best I can do reliably is about 4 inches at 25 yards, with a S&W model 10 and handloaded 158 grain cast SWC. My Glock 19, I can shoot at about 5-6 inch groups at that range.

Not that I don't believe that it's possible to shoot 2 inch groups, and not that I expect anyone here to believe that I can shoot like I say I can, but...

Silvanus
October 22, 2007, 12:49 PM
Silvanus, I qualify Expert/Distinguished Expert with Glock 17/19, and my CZs are more accurate for me. I hate the g-rock grip, feel, and trigger. Ain't that the beauty of America, all those nice choices.

That's OK. I just hate it when people claim Glocks are generally not accurate. Those people can't shoot (Glocks). It's as simple as that. I know for a fact that my Glock is very accurate when I do my part.

tydephan
October 22, 2007, 12:54 PM
Is there a point that I missed somewhere?

Do people lie? Maybe.

Do folks sometime make honest mistakes? Probably.

So if you don`t have a comment dealing with the question and are only here antagonize people,skip over my threads if you don`t mind.
The same can be said for you. If you do not believe the things being said here, why not simply skip over it?

MICHAEL T
October 22, 2007, 01:21 PM
I never try for the little bitty group I shoot what I carry and try for Inside a paper plate quick fireing at 10 yds and closer Be it 380 38 9mm or 45acp. I figure that will work if I need my gun. Never have enjoyed the bulleye shooting. I also never shoot at a range . Stand in one place slow fire isn't real life. I moved to country so I could shoot and be away from all the crime and city BS.
I will say its my belife most pistols out of the box will group better than 98% of the owners can shoot.

Scorpiusdeus
October 22, 2007, 01:45 PM
Well, I really don't know what to say here. I've shot under a 2" group with my .40 S&W P226 while moving on a timer. Of course it was pretty lucky I think as I'm generally an average shooter at best. Still, I've been able to pull it off a couple of times if not more at an indoor range where I'm stationary. I don't post pictures because I'm just not that proud when I do. I know it was the exception and not the rule.

I've seen some pretty good shooters so I think claiming that people are lying is BS. Unless you were there, you don't know and we just have to take their word for it.

That having been said, I've wondered the same thing, but I just don't go around calling people liars without all the facts.

I suspect some may just be a the result of honest mistakes. At my local indoor, I heard a guy saying over and over again that he was going to shoot out to 50 yds. It was actually 50 feet, but he thought the line marks were in yards.

armoredman
October 22, 2007, 01:49 PM
Silvanus, there was a guy I worked with who was a Glock wizard, the guy the OP says doesn't exist. He could make ragged one hole groups with a G17 all day long at 15 yards, and usually at 20 yards. G-rocks are accurate enough, just not my cup o' Tupperware. ;)
Naked Prophet, I have done 3 inch groups with my Model 10-8 at 25yards, with the +P LWSCHP I use for carry ammo. I don't try that often, because thestuff is so flippin' expensive! Not to mention, I am afraid the nixt time I'll get a 10 inch group! But certain handloads will give me wonderful results, which is the point of having fun handloadin! This wheelie is WAY more accurate than I am, scary accurate. Love it.

Scorpiusdeus
October 22, 2007, 02:04 PM
ArchAngel
You`ve always got a negative remark to say on most of your posts. You`re one of those long time members that think you operate this forum. Well I`ve got news for you, YOU DON`T. So if you don`t have a comment dealing with the question and are only here antagonize people,skip over my threads if you don`t mind.

I actually though he was being very polite. He also made some good points. Old poster, new poster, doesn't matter rude is rude and calling people liars without all the facts is rude any way ya slice it. It's not your message, it's your delivery.

Creature
October 22, 2007, 02:06 PM
nevermind...

Johnny Guest
October 22, 2007, 02:09 PM
- - And went downhill. It is a given that some shooters are more accurate than others. Some pistols are more accurate than others. A good shooter with a poor pistol may do fairly well. A poor shooter with an excellent pistol may or may not do fairly well. Then a superb shooter can have a bad day, while a very mediocre one can have a phenomenally good day.

It's a little like me telling everyone about the times I shot sub-half-inch groups at 100 yards with my .257 Roberts. Absolutely true - - About twice over the past 20 years. :p I CANNOT do it on demand. I can usually shoot a one inch group with that rifle and my best handloads, but that's about all I can claim with a straight face.

There are so many variables, it is a little difficult to make a sweeping, overall statement. One generalization that can be made, though - - When the "big boys" hold a bullseye pistol match, the winning targets will hold groups closer to two inches than three at 25 yards, officially measured. Now, these are slowfire stages, but the shooters are standing on their hind legs, shooting one-handed. And, no, this kind of accuracy is NOT NEEDED for survival shooting "in real life," but it indicates what CAN be done on a regular basis.

Anyway, this thread is about done.

CLOSED.

Johnny

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