[benEzra]

A beautiful SAR-1 followed me home this weekend . . . guess I'll have to feed it now . . .

I've shot Kalashnikov-pattern rifles before, but never really sat down and studied one until now. I've come to the conclusion that Mikhail Kalashnikov was a really sharp designer (surprise, surprise).

How many of you AK owners have ever noticed that when you flip the safety on, it tightly seals the gap in the receiver so that dirt and crud can't get in the action? Sorta like the nifty little door on AR's, except that the SAR can be sealed up even with a round in the chamber.

And that when the safety is on, you can cycle the bolt enough to visually check the chamber, but NOT enough to accidentally chamber a round?

And talk about easy to field-strip . . . I thought the mini-14 was easy, but, wow, push-button disassembly . . . :what:

I was also surprised how light the SAR is--it's even lighter than my Choate-stocked mini-14, and somehow even handier (I didn't think that was possible). The trigger is smoother and lighter than I expected, too.

I am also impressed with the SAR's apparent ruggedness. Compare an AK magazine and a mini-14 (or AR) magazine and check out the thickness of the feed lips. You'd be hard pressed to dent the feed lips of an AK mag by careless handling, from the looks of it.

I have to say, I'm sold on the Kalashnikov design. Can't wait to get out to the range with it to see how it shoots. (More to follow . . . ) :)

[P95Carry]

You will love it .... guaranteed! My SAR1 is well ''broke in'' :p and i love the sob! Mikhail was a genius.

Very reliable ... adequately accurate and yeah .. mags are built like brick latrines!:D

[MAKOwner]

Never quite understand why so many gun enthusiasts turn their nose up at AKs, without even giving them a second thought/fair chance. Such a great design, versatile and still cheap to buy here... Mine are as accurate as a buddies Mini-14, and my AKs have zero problems with ammo/mags. They're hard to beat all around IMO.

These SARs are such great project guns too. You can really improve their looks/handling if you like messing with that kind of stuff. Stock refinishing, metal refinishing, the trigger responds well to polishing, etc. Oh and you should get a SAR2 in 5.45x39 now, it's such a joy to shoot, even better than a traditional 7.62 AK IMO...

[Logistar]

Kalashnikov Was a Genius After checking out my new SAR-1, I said the exact same thing. I am certainly not knocking any other kind of firearm but there simply is a "beauty" to the simplicity of this design.

- Sure, perhaps a couple of things (like the safety) might have been better. But for a gun designed in 1947...... I am extremely impressed. I am glad I bought the SAR-1 and I intend to always keep at least one AK. I've had more "fun" with the SAR-1 than any gun I have owned since I was a child!

Logistar
_______________
"A Kel-Tec for every pocket and an AK for every trunk!"

- so... would that make a good tagline????

[4v50 Gary]

That safety, wasn't that from the Remington Model 8? The trigger mechanism, look at it again. M-1 Garand and Garand got it from somewhere else. Curved boxed magazine? Well, those have been in use for a while though mostly for machineguns, among them the Bren gun (a Czechoslovakian design). Gas piston - well, other guns had them too including the Bren.

Does this mean Kalashnikov wasn't a genius? No. He knew to take good features and combine them into one package. Then he got them to work. Then he got it to work reliably under almost any conditions. Yep, he's a genius. Not on par with Browning but a genius nonetheless. I suspect that the Russians are still very advanced in firearms design.

[Pilgrim]

Never quite understand why so many gun enthusiasts turn their nose up at AKs, without even giving them a second thought/fair chance.

I think it is partly a political correctness thing. The design is easily associated with Communist military forces and terrorist thugs.

I admit to a certain amount of prejudice against the design until I got my hands on one and examined it carefully. I was impressed with its simplicity. I decided to buy it. After shooting it I was convinced I had been wrong in my prevous assesments of the design. It shot well and is certainly handy as a home defense weapon.

Alas, because the PDRK is anal retentive about AKs, it resides in freedom at a friend's house in Idaho, where it waits patiently for my next visit to play.

Pilgrim

[OEF_VET]

Considering Kalashnikov's background, it's doubtful he used many American designs to come up with the Avtomat Kalashnikov. 'Ole Mikhail was but a poorly educated, conscripted tank driver in Joe Stalin's Army during WWII. He essentially educated himself in the basics of weapons design, and further refined that knowledge under the tutelage of Comrade Tokarev IIRC. During his war service it's possible he came into contact with an odd Garand or two, but I doubt it was for a long enough period of time to allow for disassembly and serious studying. If I remember right, the original AK was designed by Kalashnikov during the war, and his apparent ability is what got him transferred from combat to the Tokarev Design Bureau.

For a kid from a farming collective, he sure did a heck of a job. Nowadays, he lives in a tiny apartment, eeking out an existence on a small pension from the Russian government. If he'd have been a capitalist, he'd undoubtedly be one of the wealthiest gun-makers in the world.

BTW, I love my SAR-1. It's so much fun to shoot. I'd rather have it than an overpriced AR. :D :D

Frank

[Andrew Wyatt]

Never quite understand why so many gun enthusiasts turn their nose up at AKs, without even giving them a second thought/fair chance.


I hate the sights. I hate the safety, and i hate the trigger on every AK i've ever fired. That's why i turn my nose up at the AK.

[Joe Demko]

Ditto what Andrew Wyatt said.

[buzz_knox]

The safety/dustcover on the AK is inferior to the M-16. It cannot be applied/removed without shifting the weapon from the proper firing position, and when it is removed, there is a large gap in the weapon. The 16's dustcover can be flipped back into position after chambering a round, and the safety removed.

That being said, the AK is a wonderful weapon for it's intended purpose: short range combat to medium range suppressive fire by masses of ill-trained troops. This isn't a slam, just a recognition of its purpose. The 16 was intended to do the same thing in a different way.

[Correia]

If you have long enough fingers the AK safety is wonderful. :) Faster than you could believe. As for the big open gap it leaves, it doesn't seem to matter. I have yet to see an AK malfunction due to foreign matter entering through the gap. I have made one malfunction by pouring sand directly into the action, but it took more sand than any other gun I've tried this on.

Trigger? There are good AK triggers out there.

Sights do suck. Thank goodness for Kreb's Custom. :)

The AK action has been adopted to work reliably with everything from .22, 9x17, 9x18, 9x19, 9x21, 5.45x39, .223, 7.62x39, 9x39, 7.62x54r, .308, .410, 20 guage, and 12 guage. Hard to argue with success.

Kalashnikov came to the attention of his superiors after designing a submachine gun. It competed against other designs but lost, but it showed enough promise so he was moved over the weapons development. I'm sure that he had both Garands, and STG44s to look at while he designed his rifle. Either way, the man was still a genius.

He also designed the PK series of machine guns. Probably one of the best GPMGs ever. His sniper rifle design lost out against Dragunov.

[willyjixx]

For a kid from a farming collective, he sure did a heck of a job. Nowadays, he lives in a tiny apartment, eeking out an existence on a small pension from the Russian government. If he'd have been a capitalist, he'd undoubtedly be one of the wealthiest gun-makers in the world.

Thats a shame! I didnt even think or know he was still alive!



love it or hate the dang thing did its job an does it well. if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery then Kalishnikov is a very flattered man.
course the same can be said for Colt

[Zeke Menuar]

Coming up with the AK design was Mr. Kalishnikov's second great achievement. His greatest achievement was to navigate Stalin's political minefield and come out of it alive. Many of his comtemporaries didn't.

ZM

[telewinz]

It could only come from a Russian mindset. Till the AK47 every other country and designer was seeking to make their receivers smaller and more compact. The AK is a step backwards (thank god) in that the length and size of the receiver is much larger than the size of the cartridge it fires. There is plenty of room for dirt/sand/mud to accumulate without causing a stoppage, and the key parts are "soldier proof", they are much beefier than they need to be. The design would never have made it in this country, its our great loss, we pay more for our infantry weapons but we aren't better served.:uhoh:

10 or 15 years from now they will talk of the SAR-1 as we now talk about the HK 91 or 93. "Why didn't I buy 1 or 2 when they were going for $350?".:banghead:

[Gewehr98]

That safety is just too similar to be a coincidence. :D

[4v50 Gary]

Zeke brings up a good point. To survive and succeed in Stalinist Russia was quite an achievement. Beria and the NKVD made the Gestapo look like Miss Nancy of Romper Room.

[TNT]

"Never quite understand why so many gun enthusiasts turn their nose up at AKs, without even giving them a second thought/fair chance. "

Reminds me of the time I was in Cabela's and asked how much the SAR was and all the guy said is that "he thinks they shouldn't even sell those things." They want $399.00 for the rifle.:rolleyes: I love my AK and will never part with it.

[Logistar]

Sights? If you use a red dot, the sights are fine.

Trigger? Mine has been fine. No slap... it really isn't bad. (Surprised me!)

Safety? They have a safety????

Logistar

[Kharn]

My cousin (my shooting instructor/mentor) constantly calls the AK a 'punk gun' and considers them to be on the level of a Raven or Jennings, but he's an HK snob so I just sort of tune him out while I blast away with mine. I needed a compact, reliable, standard-capacity magazine semiauto rifle that I could use for just about anything from feral dogs to somebody ramming their car into my house to gain entry, the only logical choice was to buy an AK. :D

I've heard of an SOT's AK that cycled perfectly on full auto for a full magazine, and when the owner dropped the magazine and inverted the rifle, two crushed empties rolled out of the reciever. The rifle had continued to work, even after it had two FTEjects. :what:

Kharn

[benEzra]

My cousin (my shooting instructor/mentor) constantly calls the AK a 'punk gun' and considers them to be on the level of a Raven or Jennings
I personally know three other people who own AK's. One is a Ph.D in Physics, one is a Ph.D in Engineering, and one is a B.A. in Commercial Art who illustrates aircraft technical manuals.

"Punk gun," huh?:fire:

[Jim K]

The AK is a darned good design. One thing is the ease of disassembly, plus the use, where possible, of large parts without close fitting. This means that the AK will function in dirty or dusty areas where the AR-15/M16/M4 will fail or require excessive care and attention. It also means less chance of losing a critical part when cleaning the rifle.

As to the supposed superiority of the HK or other "better" guns, we probably need to look at the relative quantities in use (without regard to politics) to see what preferences really are.

The safety does close off the bolt handle slot, and it is copied from the Remington Model 8/81 (Kalashnikov said so), but it does not seal the action as well as the door on the M16. But in the real world, neither works worth a darn for keeping fine sand out of the action. It is just that sand in the action matters less to the AK than it does to the closely fitted M16.

(FWIW, I think the original AR-18 is better than either one; it doesn't matter what gets in one of those.)

Jim

[JohnKSa]

I wish I could remember the source of this story. I think I heard it told in the first person on Tales of the Gun on the History Channel.

A US soldier in Vietnam found a battlefield pickup AK and threw it in his footlocker. Occasionally, when the mood struck him, and ammo was available, he would take it out of his footlocker for some blastage.

Of course, the humid environment and the total lack of care played hell with the firearm. The action would be rusted closed.

He placed the buttstock on the ground and kicked the bolt handle to break it open. Then he loaded the mag and blasted away. When done, he threw it back in the footlocker without cleaning.

He said it never malfunctioned in any way.

[Triad]

JohnKSa, I've heard that story before from several different sources, I think it was also posted here. I think that was a very common thing for the men in Vietnam to do.

[J. Parker]

When my shootin' buddy and I go out for a "session" he has his Colt AR and I have my lowly AK and I best him every time. He gets an occasional jam and I just keep perkin' right along.
Simply put....AK's (in any form) are absolutely incredible. Along with the 1911 design it's the next best creation in the 20th century. Just my thoughts, John

[Chipperman]

The biggest evidence of his genius was the ability to convince everyone that his design was all his own.

As was mentioned earlier, a lot of the design was taken from the Original "Assault Rifle", as well as other features, like the Remington safety. That is not to take anything away from his awesome weapon, though.


I saw an interview with Kalashnikov. He wistfully mentioned meeting Eugene Stoner, who had his own plane. He said, " I can hardly afford my own ticket".
:(

[Navy joe]

He was/is, and also a patriot. Not all of them come in red, white, and blue.

[OEF_VET]

Actually Navy, he is a red, white, and blue patriot, it's just his colors are stacked one on top of the other, instead of in a Stars and Bars pattern. I personally believe he was truly dedicated to Mother Russia vs. the USSR.

Frank

[BDM]

Ill tell ya Im a die hard AR guy and the debate over the two could go on on,but I have to say the AK was a genius design for a guy who started out as a tank mechanic and had an insatiable loyalty to his country and a desire to put the simplest most reliable desin in the hands of the infantry man,he is a great man and designer.

[Navy joe]

;) OEF, I know, I was just referring to his stint when the bear wore red and yellow. Even among our sometimes enemies you should realize that America has no monopoly on good men like Kalashnikov and they deserve respect no matter who they fight for.

[bad_dad_brad]

Just bought a SAR-1 today. Always wanted an AK. Love my AR - but I always wanted to try the other side. She is a little rough around the edges but not that bad,- some rust on the trigger, needs some serious de-greasing, and the front sight post seems a smidge off to the right, and that furniture needs some attention, but all in all for $360 from my dealer she seems like a heck of a good buy.

Wolf ammo - $2.69 for twenty rounds - pretty cheap plinking - bet I can get it cheaper as well.

The AK-47 is good enough for what it is for. Simple. Was Kalashnikov a genius? Who knows, but rememember what A. Einstein once said:

"Everything should be as simple as possible, but not simpler."

Pretty much defines the AK.

I will try to post a shooter's impression after I take her out. I am just as excited about any gun I have ever purchased, to shoot this rifle.

[stevelyn]

Mikhail Kalashnikov is pictured in this months' issue of Soldier of Fortune posing with a wristwatch with an AK-47 theme and a nice looking combat folder called the AK-47. Incidentally the blade is shaped like the AK bayonet.
Perhaps he has finally learned about capitalism.

[gun-fucious]

if you can handle a 5.5 meg file you can watch his genius in slow motion:
http://www.bsg-dornier.de/schiessen/filme/hsp/kalashnikov.mpg

[rock jock]

My respect for Mr. Kalashnikov dropped considerably when he recently made the decision to market products under his name through a German company rather than U.S. His reason was that he felt it would be a betrayal of the Motherland to use a U.S. company to make a little money since we were enemies in the Cold War for 40+ years. Never mind that it was Germany, not the U.S., that invaded his country and killed millions of his fellow Russians in WWII. Nevermind that it was the U.S. that set the stage for the demise of Communism in his country, a system I might add that prevented him from becoming rich from his rifle design. Nevermind that is the U.S. that has sent billions in aid to Russia to help its failing economy. And finally, nevermind that it is the U.S., not Germany, that has hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans of his rifles and from whom will probably come most of the purchasers of his name-branded merchandise. While I own a Kreb's AK-103 and enjoy it much, I can assure you I will NOT be buying any Kalashnikov products.:rolleyes:

[LAMPROPELTIS]

Did you ever see an ak-47 next to a stg 43/44? Maybe Mr Kalashnikov feels he owes the germans somthing. :D

[P95Carry]

gun-fucious - great link! Interesting to watch the slo-mo and noticed that rear site jumps up each shot!!

[Marko Kloos]

The AK is a fine design, and it fills its intended purpose very well: a reliable, easy-to-fix rifle for peasant conscripts with little training. It does have drawbacks...it has vestigial sights, shoots a round that's ballistically inferior to both 5.56x45 and 7.62x51, has a stock length of pull that's only suitable for Siberian midgets in winter clothes, and can't be scoped worth a crap without buiding outriggers on the rifle. Even if you could scope it easily, it would be like putting a 200 MPH speedometer on a Pinto. The ergonomics are horrible, the safety lever is arguably the clumsiest solution ever put on a fighting rifle, and the trigger is mediocre and can't be tuned well thanks to the archaic cable spring.

On the plus side, the AK is sturdy as a truck, tolerates lots of dirt and abuse, and can be gunsmithed by a peasant blacksmith. Every design has its strong and weak points, including the ones designed by Moses Brownign and Saint Mikhail.

[Duncan Idaho]

Kalashnikov is a filthy commie. Some genius. :rolleyes: :uhoh: :barf:

[Jim K]

We routinely applied "GI Boot maintenance" to M1 rifles anytime they hung up from dirt or crud, although they didn't do it often. Not the thing to do with the M16; boot maintenance will probably break the fragile little charging handle latch if not the charging handle itself.

Jim

[SteelyDan]

I don't really know or care who came up with the design for the AK, but it is brilliant. Elegant simplicity, and it works. Other rifles do specific things better, obviously, but the design itself probably can't be beat for an effective, functional, and reliable battle weapon. I love my AR, but from a pure "design" perspective I like the simplicity of the AK.

[.45Ruger]

WOW! the AK vs. AR debate seems alot more friendly than the usual 1911 vs GLOCK, much better. I do have to day that I really enjoy shooting my SAR 1. The design is old, but still works very well, kind of like the 1911.

[Kharn]

I've never had to use boot maintenance to my AK, but I did apply it to my FAL when I mistakenly set the gas too low and an empty got slammed right back into the chamber instead of ejecting (the FAL locks up really badly if this happens, you have to kick the charging handle pretty hard, too).

The only problems I've ever had with my AK involve Saf-T-Trainers (1 piece plastic bullets, basically snap caps without the springloaded firing pin cushion) and a 10 round mag, something lets the second Saf-T-Trainer from the top slide out from under the top-most one in the magazine when I load up all 10 Saf-T-Trainers and practice loading drills.

Kharn

[Jack19]

While I'm an AR guy at heart, I love my RRA with a Bushie Superlight barrel, I picked up an Arsenal SA M-7 a couple of months ago. All I can say is WOW!!!

Unlike the SAR-1 I had a couple of years ago or the pre-ban Polytech I had 10 years ago, the SA M-7 rivals my AR for accuracy out to 100-150 yards. I'm very impressed with my current version of the AK...and it's US made to boot....:D :D :D

Arsenal, Inc. SA M-7 Review (http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/sam7.pdf)

[Richardson]

4V50 wrote that Kalishnikov took the gas design from other rifles. Look at the SKS, and you'll note striking similarity.

Kalishnikov was great at picking the best of others, in terms of reliability, and incorporating it into a new design.

RIchardson

[benEzra]

has a stock length of pull that's only suitable for Siberian midgets in winter clothes
Actually, the length of pull is perfect for me (5'6", 152 lb) and I've never even been to Siberia!:D I had to shorten my Choate stock for my mini-14 because it was uncomfortably long.

[BryanP]

Kalashnikov is a filthy commie. Some genius.

Somebody's political/personal beliefs have nothing to do with their abilities in other areas. Heck, I personally think that Nathan Bedford Forrest was Grade A Scum, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a tactical genius.

[St. Gunner]

Marko,

The AK was designed for a scope with the side rail. With the mount it can be removed and return to zero when you slide it back on. I'm 5'11" and weigh 230 lbs, not exactly a midget, but I can still shoot the gun well, it sits closer to my face than some other guns do, but it seems to really help in pointing. Attached below is a pic of a K-var mount on my SAR. I was in a gunshop fixing to buy a Bushmaster when this grizzled ol marine told me I was stupid as a doorknob if I bought a that mattel toy. He said if I really wanted a rifle to buy an M14 variant, if I wanted something that went bang everytime, shot decent, was easy to put a scope on and was cheap to feed, buy one of them Commie guns on the shelf, he had three of em. So I bought it, took it home, cursed myself for buying such an ugly gun, then shot it and fell in love. :D

Rifle $350
8 30rd mags, $144
10rd and 40rd with rifle
Softside case $50
K-var mount $90
BSA 42mm reddot $50
1000rds of sp ammo $100

Total $784


Do that with any AR variant, you might get the rifle, it won't be as reliable, and to outfit it will set you back almost as much as a complete AK set-up.