[Boats]

I stop by Sportsman's Warehouse in Salem to finally get myself a Klawhorn Ready Edge for my keychain and as I cannot get out of the place without going over to the gun section, I head on over. This nice young gal, whose father taught her a thing or two about guns as she relates it to me (and it shows by how much she can tell me about each model), is showing me every weapon I want to look at because the foot traffic is fairly low at the time. I am checking the lock-up on various revolvers when a guy in his late 40s strolls up. I lay the S&W 360 I am looking at on the rug so the clerk doesn't get anxious that I'll lift it or something, and I nod to give her the go ahead to help someone who might be buying today.

"Hi, I bought a Glock here two weeks ago. Do you have a gunsmith that works here?"

"Yes," the clerk says, "he isn't here on Sundays. He's the manager and can do light work on most of the pistols we sell. What's wrong with your Glock?"

"I disassembled it and I can't get it back together."

"The field stripping procedure is in the manual." as she tries to be helpful.

"No, you don't understand. I took it completely apart. I can't figure out how to put it back together again."

"Well lucky for you the manager is a Glock Certified Armorer. Just come by tomorrow with your Glock. I'll get your name and number and he'll give you a call for when it would be best for you to come by."

At this point I had moved down the counter because I was having a hard time not laughing. I didn't catch the guy's name, but I'd bet his number was 503-DUMBASS.:evil:

[itgoesboom]

What do you want to bet that the first thing he does after he gets it put back together is head to the nearest pool to see if it really will shoot underwater. :rolleyes:

I.G.B.

[Shake]

Yes, inexperienced people new to the sport who need assistance are worth ridiculing. . .

I know I've always known everything there is to know about handguns.

:rolleyes:

Shake

[MMcCall]

I know you like to stir the pot, Boats. GOD FORBID someone wants to learn their pistol inside and out, and made a mistake.. now he gets a free lesson from a Glock armorer.

Oh, right, I forgot.. if it's not a 1911 or a Garand, it's not a REAL gun, right?



[Text cleaned up to THR standards by moderator.]

[dsk]

Dirty Harry once said "A man's got to know his limitations".

Some folks exceed them every day, and still never learn.

[c_yeager]

Yeah, its much better to set the bar really low. That way you never embarass yourself by learning something.

[Powderman]

itgoesboom:

Hate to mention this, but the Glock will reliably shoot underwater.

So will any handgun--IF it is done correctly.

MMcall: Boats was relating a humorous story. Do you REALLY have to try to skin him alive for this?

I think some one once said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

[faustulus]

I am sure the $40 in stupid tax the guy will have to pay to get it back together will sting. I have done things to incure this tax myself.

Bet it won't be free. You make a mistake people are going to ridicule you, think of it as negative reenforcement. Like the guys that bring stuff into the gun smith say "I got the dremel out ..." I don't fault a man for trying to learn, but I think I would have some idea what I was doing before I attempted it, and there are somethings I just wouldn't attempt -- say open heart surgery, just because I want to learn the human body inside and out.

[c_yeager]

Are you honestly going to equate open heart surgery with detail stripping a glock? I dont know a single guy that DOESNT like taking stuff apart to learn how it works. This is something that should be encouraged.

[Baba Louie]

As a youngster, I took apart everything I could get my hands on to see what made them tick. Usually had a part or three left over and dangit... the thing usually did not work for diddly afterwards (surprise), unlike my Dad, who'd work on cars and there was always a part or two left over (how'd he do that?) and the dang thing still ran.

If only the character in question had known about the internet and Glocks, etc. He could have probably done it himself (it's not that hard with the right punch).

Live and learn. Maybe, just maybe, the manager/smith will allow him to visit the surgery room during reconstruction and education will follow. I'm sure that every gunsmith who's been in business more than 6 months has similar stories to tell.

Adios

[Serpico]

I once tried open heart surgery on myself...it sure was embarrassig walking into the emergency room with a home made rib spreader sticking out of my chest...

[Mal H]

No matter how you feel about statements made here, there will be no ad hominem remarks allowed. Keep it civil.

[Boats]

Yes, please PM me with any vile remarks you may have. I apologize for calling a spade a spade. Isn't the Glock supposedly the easiest pistol ever invented in terms of the detail strip? Aren't there like only thirty some parts? Sounds as if this anecdote has struck a little to close to home for some.:evil:

[Kentucky Rifle]

For a while I wondered if you REALLY were Chuck. Sometimes, you even talk like him. Been a while since I've spoken to him though.

KR

[Andrew Wyatt]

A man had better learn how to detail strip his piece and reassemble it.


Kudos to the guy for trying.

[themic]

i...i... just didn't get why this was funny. are glocks hard to put together? should peopl not take apart their guns completely? should he not ask for help when he gets stuck? i'm at a loss for figuring out the social norm we're poking fun at.

[hksw]

Dirty Harry once said "A man's got to know his limitations".

Some folks exceed them every day, and still never learn.

Others exceed them and learn a lot.

[spacemanspiff]

some people have a bug to take things apart. when i was a kid, somewhere around 11 or 12, i forget exactly, i took apart the .22 pistol i found in my brothers room, following the field stripping instructions in the box it was in.

but i was able to put it back together.

[Mike Irwin]

How much you want to bet that he'll get VERY bent out of shape when the manager charges him a reassembly fee?

I had one person get VERY huffy with me years ago when she brought in her .44 Desert Eagle for me to reassemble and I told her there was a $10 fee.

Don't want to pay it? No problem. Here's the box with all of the disassociated parts in it.

Maybe you can use them as paperweights until you figure out how to put them back togeter again...

[Tamara]

I know when I worked in gun shops, I never made a point of poking fun at folks who came in with what is known colloquially as "a box of gun". (...and believe me; it happened to every brand of pistol and revolver, rifle and shotgun you can name. Maybe this also partially accounts for my lack of rabid loyalty to any given make or model... :uhoh: )

[grenadier]

We've all made mistakes somewhere along the way, and I'm certain someone has snickered behind our backs at our honest mistakes.

This guy is at least doing the right thing by asking for help, and learning something in the process.

[PCRCCW]

Hell, Ive got one for you Boats...and its about ME :what: :neener: :evil:

For years I shot a Ruger Mark 1 of my dads/moms/everyother person I knew had one and could strip them/reassemble them without a hitch.

After a 15 year break....I cleaned and shot my moms same MK1 and after the session, brought it home give it a good throrough once over. For the life of me...I could not get it back togethor......something Id done 500 times in the past (felt like a previous life time at this point :D )

I had to take the damn thing to a local range and hit one of my buddies up....."Pssst, Hey come er".....can you help me? :scrutiny:

Stuff happens....I can reassemble a 1911 completely in less than 4 minutes...but that damn Ruger bit me hard.............flame away......what the hell.

Shoot well

[Delmar]

It seems to be a shared experience with people who take their firearms apart that most of us started out as children disassembling most anything we could lay our hands on, much to the distress of our parents.
I see the humor in adults taking things apart and not being able to get them back functional-its a chance for self deprecating humor, and if you can't chuckle at yourself, you are way to serious for your own good.
As adults, most of us have learned to get a good teardown manual for whatever it is, being a Colt or a Briggs and Stratton.

[Poohgyrr]

Doesn't Glockmeister have the directions linked on their website ?? Once you know how, a Glock can about be taken apart with a nail if need be. Put back together too ;)...

[mcole]

that guy should be neutered so he can't pass his gene's on. mcole

[GSB]

I have no idea about how hard or easy it is to detail strip a Glock, but let me speak for all the guys out there who are not particularly mechanically inclined but are too embarrassed to admit it: frankly, re-assembly instructions for such gadgets as guns and carburetors always seem to have some vague spot about halfway through. Oh, it doesn't really look vague when you read everything over beforehand. But then you're in the middle of trying to hold five recalcitrant pieces in alignment while moving some widget A that's under spring tension so it mates with detent B, and you simply cannot replicate the illustration because you didn't learn the secret handshake.

Just because we are aware of our limitations doesn't mean we should never try to exceed them. That's how we learn. For those of us not by nature inclined to a particular type of task, we have to learn the hard way, by making dumb mistakes and asking others for help when we can't figure something out that seems simple to others.

[Correia]

Please, and none of our super duper ultimate gun experts have ever made a mistake?

The guy made a mistake. BFD. Nothing wrong with learning by doing.

[Bren]

The guy didn't sound like he claimed to be a know it all. He did the right thing by asking for help.

When you're green you grow, when you're ripe you rot.

To me a real Dingbat is one that acts like an expert and doesn't know squat. :rolleyes: Bren

[Tamara]

Heh.

I believe that the travails I underwent in trying to reassemble my Mateba are still online for all to see. ;)

I finally got it back together again, but not before turning the air blue with creative combinations of old words and becoming frustrated nigh unto the point of tears.

(In case you didn't guess, there's a little trick to it that's not very well alluded to in the fuzzily translated Italish instruction manual: you have to balance the desmodromo on the distributor fork while holding your mouth just right.)

[foghornl]

Tamara:

That sounds more like the re-assembly instructions for a Ducati 750 motorcycle, but I digress.

And I had to take a sackful of Remington Nylon 66 to the local gun guy as a teenager once.... Never took it down any farther than removing the barrel after that, being $15 poorer in 1969 dollars for my mistake.

[Frohickey]

hey!!!

Thats not nice.

I once tried to take my M1A apart, put I couldn't get the op rod to separate from the receiver. This after reading the manual and other stuff on the web.
Took it to a gunsmith, and all he did was put a screwdriver and pry it when the notches were aligned. :o

[Ky Larry]

What's wrong with saying "I don't know"? Not all of us were born with complete and total knowledge of everything. I can take a J-79 jet engine out of an F4 Phantom jet fighter,take it apart,put it back together, reinstall it, trim it and it will work perfectly. BUT, I don't have a problem taking my car to an auto mechanic.

[seeker_two]

Sounds like he's smarter to ask for help than to try to "stick" pieces together & then fire it...:what:

Give the guy a break...and directions to the nearest NRA firearms class...:cool:

[tetchaje1]

It amazes me how much some people here are ready to string that poor fellow up to die in front of everybody because he was tinkering and got himself in trouble. :rolleyes: I sure as heck wasn't born perfect and that elderly gentleman did the right thing by asking for help -- probably learned something about his weapon in the process.

I used to not completely strip my weapons down before until I learned how much trigger jobs cost. With a little elbow grease you can make a USP Compact trigger smooth and bearable (though still pretty heavy in DA). I would have never gained that intelligence unless I took a chance and completely stripped the fire control unit out of mine. Heck, I even had the spring go "sproing" and had parts fly across the room. I wasn't sure if I had lost something until I put the gun back together again and everything fit and worked.

Get a life and stop being so critical about this guy and his Gluck...

[citizen]

......poor guy's worth a chuckle, and THAT'S IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Lay off....)

[9x19]

IMO: Anyone who doesn't make mistakes, isn't doing very much. :scrutiny:

To me, finding great joy in another's misfortune seems a bit immature. :(

[10-Ring]

:D That's a good one! :D

[NapAttack]

I think the really funny part about this guy is that we can all see him in us. I see someone like that and I'm not laughing at him but rather with him. I can see myself in exactly the same fix. Been there, done that.

As several others have said, unless you test your limits by trying to exceed them and occasionally getting in a jam, how do you know what your limits are?

"The only people who don't make mistakes are the ones that aren't doing anything." author unknown

[itgoesboom]

itgoesboom:

Hate to mention this, but the Glock will reliably shoot underwater.

So will any handgun--IF it is done correctly.


Yes it will, which is why i mentioned it. Whenever you are in a gun shop and someone is looking at a Glock, inevitably they ask about shooting it underwater.

I just figured that this person might ACTUALLY try it.

Also, people don't consider the little details about shooting underwater...
1. Marine Spring cups that Glock makes for the 17 in order for it to work more than once
2. FMJ instead of HP so that they don't expand in the barrell
3. Very good hearing protection, because of the shockwave that it will create.

My concern is that someone who is new to shooting, and doesn't ask for help untill it is too late, and must try everything might do that without considering the above.

i.G.B.

[444]

I can beat that guy's story, and this happened to ME last week. I got to the point that I seldom shot my 1911s. In fact I have gone years at a time without shooting them dispite the fact that at one time I was running 1000-1500 rounds a month throught them. Well, I signed up for the Gunsite 250 Basic Defensive handgun course and I figured I would take the 1911s. I needed to get tuned up on them, so I went out shooting. The thing ate me alive. The web of my hand was bleeding. This never happened before, but I guess I got fatter and had more hand ? With only a couple weeks to go I ordered myself a beavertail. I have always shot my guns bone stock if possible. I have had 1911s apart before, all the way apart; but had never really changed out any parts. So, the beavertail arrives and I install it. So far so good. But the gun doesn't work. I see that the problem is that the hammer won't go to full cock with the beavertail. Clearly stated on the package is the warning that you need a commander style hammer for this safety. No biggie, I still got over a week to go before the class. I order a new hammer and sear. This is where the trouble began. You see, this gun is a Series 80 Colt. Never had one of these down this far before. There are two little parts that I don't recognize :uhoh: But, I put them where it looks like they should go and off I go to Gunsite the next morning. Morning #1 just before lunch break we are instructed to load and make ready. Fire a single shot, COM. My gun goes click with no bang. Type #1 malfunction, tap rack roll. Same thing, and again. I then have to explain to the rangemaster what the problem is and run to get my backup. I then went to the gunsmith at noon and got it fixed. Live and learn. It happens to everybody at one time or another. I am not especially mechanically inclined and very seldom try to work on my own guns. But, I was in a bind and felt that I had no choice. And I paid for it.
Yeah, I know all about waiting until the last minute. Something like this happens on everything I undertake. I have learned to live with it.

[New_comer]

I admire the guy for having the intestinal fortitude to explore an unknown, and more so by his admission of his fault and limitations.


That is a trait most often seen in inventors and adventurers.

[Jeff OTMG]

To this day Remington still gets back Nylon 66 rifles in boxes asking that they be reassembled. One of the most dificult in my understanding.

[Boats]

Okay, after reflecting on it a day I think I know why I was on the verge of laughing. I perceived some arrogance gone awry from that guy and saw what a struggle it must have been for him to come in and talk about his box gun, as he didn't even have it with him. My prose was just lacking in the ability to capture the guy's tone of voice.

Lord knows I'm not perfect, but most of the complicated things I have ever done in my life, from detail stripping 1911s for the first time, working on electrical systems, timing and old car, doing algebra, name it, I always made sure, or someone else more responsible than me made sure, that if I got stuck I could turn to somebody for help without the task becoming some ordeal through trial and error. Even when an experienced person is not available, I get the instructions, the best ones I can get.

I bought a used Honda motorcycle for my son. It is just a little 50cc dirtbike and he is not old enough to ride it yet. It didn't run when I bought it and needed an engine rebuild because it had lost compression and wasn't running well when it worked. I guess I could have just gotten the toolbox out and started tearing it down onto a white sheet so that I could have some "leftover" parts at the reassembly, after I had long forgotten some of the sequences, but that would be, on some level, idiotic. Guess what? For a mere $20.00 I bought the same shop manual the mechanic would have if he got stuck, with the exploded views of every subassembly. Today the bike runs just fine and I don't have any unintentional spare parts.

When I got my first Garand, I didn't detail strip until the next CMP shoot I went to just because I knew a guy who'd walk me through it, even though there are instructions and tech manuals all over the internet.

So I castigate this guy on the internet, not to his face, for violating the Boy Scout motto: "Be prepared." How hard would it have been to just do it right the first time with everything he needed to get it apart and back together or with someone who knew what they were doing? These are the folks who remind me of the hunters or hikers who go out in the woods "knowing the way" and don't take a compass, or even have the ability to do something with one as simple as dead reckoning if they took it (Don't worry, I have a compass---uh, but I don't have a map!), and get lost, neccessitating an expensive rescue that need not have happened. They are the people who "know the gun isn't loaded." They're the ones who shoot people on hunting trips because they "know " it's a deer in that bush. On some level, this type of person gives me pause as they go about how they make it through life, one stupid episode and one self-manufactured crisis after another.

What I have tended to find, and many of us know of someone like Mr. Gun-in-a-box, is that they don't tend to have isolated incidences of this sort of thing.

Back in the day, these folks, like as not, would Darwinize themselves out of existence somehow because they thought more of their abilities than any neutral observer would give them credit for.

[Serpico]

We should al count our blessings....without poor judgment, how many of us men would ever have had sex?

[GSB]

Boats, I see now what you were getting at. Yeah, there are more than enough guys who are painfully close to the guy in Home Improvement, who think they can just tear into load-bearing walls and engines with impunity. Instructions? Books? Those are for wimps.

[Skunkabilly]

I needed help putting my Beretta back together.

Heck a few months back i lost a spring brushing the frame :o

[valnar]

A Glock is just plastic, right? Heck, even I can put Legos together.
:neener:

[Al Thompson]

Looks like we've come full circle. Good night! ;)

[Henry Bowman]

Maybe most people aren't as generous as I am (and I'm a lawyer!:evil: ), but I can't believe that the store that sold the piece would charge its customer $10-40 just to reassemble the gun. Granted, if they are busy, you'd have to leave it or come back at a slow time.
Sure it's a funny story, but, Boats, couldn't you have said (if it's so simple), "Got it with you? Let's take a look and see if we can't figure it out right now." You said that it was slow right then. Maybe the tactical hottie behind the counter could have helped him out. :rolleyes:

[Mal H]

I couldn't agree with you more, Henry, on both accounts.

[Boats]

Well Henry, as I have written, he didn't have it with him. Maybe he left it outside in his Camaro.:D

[zahc]

Hate to mention this, but the Glock will reliably shoot underwater.
So will any handgun--IF it is done correctly


Would you please reveal the proper procedure for shooting underwater?:confused: :scrutiny:

Bet it won't be free. You make a mistake people are going to ridicule you, think of it as negative reenforcement.

I hope it hasn't been pointed out already as I haven't read the whole topic; the situation you describe would not be negative reinforcement but punishment. Negative reinforcement is the removal of an aversive stimulus to encourage a behavior.

More on topic, I think the guy should get some slack, some of y'all are sounding right snobbish.

[Silent Bob]

Life must be pretty boring when you are unnaturally obsessed with how much you hate a particular brand handgun. For some excitement, I suggest stamp collecting, or maybe bird watching...

[taoshooter]

Instead of turning away and laughing AT him at the counter wouldn't it have been better to go up to him and say that everyone makes mistakes and laugh WITH him? Heck, you may even have been able to help him.

Next time you hear someone having trouble due to inexperience maybe just tell them about THR where they could get some help - I know I have.

[George Hill]

taoshooter - Good point.

[OEF_VET]

I'd be willing to say I've got a little bit of experience with the M-16 / AR-15 family of weapons, but I still screwed up at least once. I had ordered some parts from Bushmaster and decided to take my pistol grip off of my AR-15A2 so I could figure out how to change it out. Unfortunately, the safety detent pin, which is held in place with a spring, decided it just had to be free from any further confinement in my rifle. As I removed the grip, ZINGGGGG, there goes the safety detent pin, thru the air, onto my shag carpet, virtually invisible to my not-so-perfect eyes. I ended up calling Bushmaster back and adding a new, 95 cent, safety detent pin to my order. I saved myself the embarrassment of telling the young woman on the phone just how much of a doofus I was, but it was probably apparent.

Frank

[Powderman]

Would you please reveal the proper procedure for shooting underwater?

1. If it is a Glock handgun, disassemble the slide and replace the firing pin spring cups with the ones designed specifically to allow full firing pin velocity in water. The job's done.

2. If any other handgun, ensure that the handgun is fully underwater for a time, and make darned sure that absolutely NO air is trapped inside the barrel before firing.

3. If firing underwater, ensure that full ear protection is used. The pressure wave of the gun firing underwater is much different than the same above water.

4. Use a FMJ or similar jacketed bullet. A hollow point will expand while in the barrel.

5. The proper way to use a handgun underwater is as a "contact" weapon. Press the firearm against the surface to be fired, and let fly.

Oh, and did you know that Glock markets the marine spring cups for military use--AND for use by divers, if they desire a multi-shot bang stick?

[itgoesboom]

While my comment about this guy's next comment probably being about shooting a glock underwater, and my comment being meant as a joke, i do have a serious concern here.

While all of us at some point need help with our firearms, either by the sales person showing us how to field-strip, or showing us a new model, or by coming online and looking for info or asking, i am concerned about people who are new to firearms, (which its sounds like he is) taking apart a firearm COMPLETELY without any instruction or knowledge.

Also, i do appreciate that many people on this forum are extremely good with firearms, and many are also very mechanically-abled, we have to remember that not everyone is.

Had this person managed to put this firearm back together, but not done it properly, he could have seriously injured himself, or even worse, the firearm might not work when he needed it.

While he did the right thing by going into the shop and asking for help, i think that took a big risk by doing what he did in the first place.

I.G.B.

[Psssniper]

Gun people can most certainly be know-it-all's who delight in being "smarter" than the other guy and can't wait to show that
they're not an idiot like everyone else seems to be. Course none of
us fits that description eh?

[aircarver]

Ya pull THIS stunt- ya gotta expect to get zinged....

My brother did it with a new Nylon 66 (Remington rifle- LOTTA little internal parts... all oriented with through pins...)
I got it back together for him- [but I'm an engineer...]

It's been good fodder for needling him for 30 years..... :D

[Dorrin79]

I'm mechanically inept, I'll freely admit it.

I've had to ask for help with two of mine - my Ruger P89 (not that it's hard at all, but it was my first gun and I was scared of breaking it) and my MkII (posted a cry for help here, got the info I needed)

I don't think there's any shame in asking for assistance in stripping/reassembling a firearm.

Only the fool does not recognize his own limitations.