Looking for a new 9mm


July 14, 2003, 02:10 AM
I am looking for a new 9mm carry pistol.

I know that I definately want 9mm.

It must be roughly the same size or smaller as a Kel-Tec P11 9mm.

The Taurus Millenium is too big.

The Glock 26 is too thick, and I don't really like it.

I don't like the Kel-Tec P11.

Basically, I want to be able to carry it in my front pocket - like I can the Kel-Tec 9mm. I would also like to be able to carry it out of a holster. This is the biggest reason the Glock 26 is out.

I know there are a few choices in what I'm looking for - chambered in .380, but I am really wanting it in 9mm. Also - it shouldn't be more than $450.

If anyone has any helpful suggestions, I could use them.



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July 14, 2003, 02:33 AM
The ONLY gun that comes to mind is the Kahr PM9. I'm in the same boat as you but I am leary of the Kahr until I hear more reports.

July 14, 2003, 02:36 AM
I thought the PM9 was about $540.

Also - why are you leary? Does it have a history of malfunctioning?


July 14, 2003, 03:25 AM
I didn't catch the $450 limit until I posted my response. I don't think they have a bad rep or anything, I just like to wait and see before I buy any new pistol. After a couple of years, the price goes down and there are enough reports on quality that you can make a better decision.

The Kel-Tec P3-AT is NOT a 9mm! Do we need to break out the hooked on phonics?:rolleyes: Three-ah-tee NOT nine-mil-a-meeter.:D Besides, the P3-AT has even less feedback than the Kahr. It will almost certainly be just as problematic as the Kel-Tec P-32 if not more so. The .380 is more powerful than the .32 so chances of increased problems go up.

He clearly does not like the Kel-Tec P-11 because he has good taste.:D I'm only funning you Flyer because of your "hooked on phonics" jokes.

July 14, 2003, 05:20 AM
To get a quality pistol in the price range you require, you are going to have to look at the used market. The closest I could find was a Kahr E9 at Gunfinder.net (http://www.gunfinder.net/getprice/index_handguns.shtml) for $438. I think that this is going to be a little big for what you have in mind!!!

July 14, 2003, 09:06 AM
How small is the CZ 75 PCR?

If it's small enough, it should otherwise fit your requirements.

July 14, 2003, 09:31 AM

There are no Kel-Tec .380s in my area - and if it were, that still wouldn't make it a 9mm.


CZ 75 is way too big.


I am more than willing to go to the used market.

- - - - -
I have noticed while shopping for a "compact" or "sub-compact" 9mm - that most gun companies' opinion of what is "compact" or "sub-compact" differs greatly from my opinion of the same. If it is as big as my full-size 1911, it is NOT a compact. I guarantee that some of the guns that these companies call compact are at least that big.

Oh well - thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

The bottom line is this: I want a 9mm, because I just like shooting that round - I have a full-size 1911 .45, a Kel-Tec P32, a Makarov, a .38 spl snubbie, and a recently acquired used Kel-Tec P11 that is NOT going to cut it.

I was using my Kel-Tec 32 as my "pocket gun", but my wife wanted to start carrying it, so it is currently "under assignment" now.

I have wanted a 9mm forever. I *hate* this Kel-Tec 9mm. When I work the slide, it seems that there is a lot of friction there. Also, when I got it, the slide stop lever would not release the slide - no matter how hard I pressed on it. So, I went to KTOG.org - and there was an article there telling how common it was - and gave directions on how to correct the problem.

I grinded down that little notch on the slide a little bit with a Dremel, then polished it, then added oil. Slide stop works fine now. And, I only grinded down just a LITTLE bit.

Now, when I have the slide locked back and I get ready to disassemble it, the slide is not being held back far enough for the takedown pin to come out! I have to hold the slide back even further, and pull the pin out - not an easy thing to do.

The friction thing is what really gets me, though. It just feels gritty. Yes, I've oiled it well. The slide feels gritty as it moves along the tracks, and that just bugs me. I want to get rid of it.


July 14, 2003, 09:51 AM
If you're leary of carrying the Glock 26 without a holster, going to a Kahr isn't going to abate those fears, as its trigger action is very much like the Glock, although it must move forward much further to reset between shots.

There isn't anything else on the market in the size range of the Kel-Tec P-11, and nothing coming up is in the price range you've quoted.

I don't hang out at KTOG much, but modifying the slide stop notch seems excessive to correct the problem you stated. It might have been better to modify the slide stop itself, since if you go too far, its easier to correct. (My rule of thumb ~ work on the least expensive/easiest to replace part first :D)

Its a shame you have such problems with your Kel-Tec, as both of mine have been excellent performers and, as you are finding out, un-matched in terms of size / cost / capacity / function.

Although butter-smooth slide function is rarely seen on production grade semi-autos (even those costing twice as much as the P-11), have you thought of addressing your concerns directly to Kel-Tec? Perhaps they could do a bit of frame rail/slide polishing for you.

Good luck with your search.

July 14, 2003, 09:56 AM
I'm going to take it back out to the range, and if this new kitchen-table gunsmithing hasn't hurt the reliability of the gun, I might keep it.

I hope that it isn't damaged.

Even if it is still acceptable, I will still want another 9mm - but I doubt I would be as picky as to which one.



July 14, 2003, 10:11 AM
The gun you describe is a vision in a lot of shooter's imaginations. The only gun that remotely approaches your criteria is either the Kahr PM9 or the MK9.

The PM9 exceeds your budget so that leaves us with the all-steel framed MK9. The MK9, for it's diminutive side, is a heavy little sucker because of it's all-steel frame. (approx 23-24 oz MT)

Your requirements are similar to mine in that I pocket carry and my CCW has to have an impossible power-to-weight ratio......and I really like the 9mm.

I'm real curious as to what you finally end up with.

July 14, 2003, 10:42 AM
Thanks to all for all the helpful responses.

The Kel-Tec actually does fit the bill quite well - but as stated earlier - it is not to my liking. I suppose I could trade it in for a new Kel-Tec.


July 14, 2003, 10:56 AM
If you don't like the Kel Tec, then don't get another one...why spend good money on something you have reservations about? I was thinking Kahr, but you may have to shop around to find one in your price range.

July 14, 2003, 02:13 PM
Not for front pocket (most of us anyway) but I've seen used Smith 3913's for $400-450 and they are highly thought of all over the world and very easy to CCW. FWIW, it's hard to beat a good J frame for pocket carry.

July 14, 2003, 02:24 PM
Price should not be the deciding factor if all other requirements ave been met. I think you would be happiest with the Kahr PM9 from your list of requirements. If you settle for less, you will just have to buy what you want in the long run anyway.

Get the Kahr PM9 and sell the Kel-Tec to finance part of it. If you don't like the Kahr, you can always sell one of those.

July 14, 2003, 02:49 PM
You need a S&W 940

Pocket Pistol
July 14, 2003, 02:57 PM
Kahr MK9 or PM9
THe current smallest ahd the BEST 9mm on the market

Or the new Rohrbaugh R-9
New challenger that may be poised to take the top notch.

Would NEVER EVER consider a Kel-Tec anything.

July 14, 2003, 10:11 PM
Pocket Pistol:

Why wouldn't you consider a Kel-tec "anything"?

What facts do you base this opinion on?


Pocket Pistol
July 14, 2003, 11:55 PM
The fact that the Kel-Tec I HAD spent more time at Kel-Tec then with me, and was NEVER fixed right.
In my opinion a rock is more reliable then a P-32. At lease it works ONCE.

FWIW, IMHO, My 0.02 :)

July 15, 2003, 09:03 AM
Youre ONLY choice given you requirements....excluding price is the

KAHR MK/PM series....the K/P/E series is very close also and can be found for under the price you want.......check gunsamerica.com...

Youll find what youre looking for.

shoot well

July 15, 2003, 09:56 AM
Save up some more money and get the Kahr PM9. It is an excellent 9mm subcompact. I can carry it in front pocket with a pocket holster, IWB, SmartCarry or fanny pack. Shoots well and pretty easy to field strip and clean. I highly recommend it!!!


July 15, 2003, 10:30 AM
I recommend Kahr Mk/Pm too.
Or If you have $1000 spare, go for HK P7M8.

July 15, 2003, 11:04 AM
It might be possible to get a XD-9 subcompact for around your $450 mark. I think it is a good size sub and from all the awards that the XD has won, if you didnt like it I am sure you could sell it off pretty easily.

July 16, 2003, 12:19 AM
I will definately check out the Kahrs.

Thanks very much for all the suggestions.



July 16, 2003, 01:04 AM
IF it is truly shipping this month ...
and IF your budget was $1000... :what:
then the Rohrbaugh would work ....

A lot of IF's there! :D

July 16, 2003, 10:48 PM
i'd carry a kel tec P3AT as a backup, but not a primary. Sorry, but the kahr is all i can think of too. Just carry it in a holster.

Pocket Pistol
July 17, 2003, 12:25 AM
If you like rear pocket or front pocket carry or anyother for that matter check out
Ron Graham he hand makes what have to be some of the best holsters going and at a price that you can not beat.


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