[Citroen]

The thread about joining and "converting" the ACLU prompted me to post this one. Why not join a group that already defends the 2nd Amendment and, in fact, defends all of the Bill of Rights?

Join now and you still have time to order your Bill of Rights day celebration kit (December 15th is Bill of Rights day for those of you living in areas where it has not been declared).

It is not expensive to join, just $25, and you don't even have to be a Jew to join. You can order some really informative material which you can share with people who might not really understand the importance of the 2nd Amendment.

I think it is time that we stopped being "against" things and started advocating the things we are for - and the Bill of Rights, as it was written by the Founding Fathers, is a great place to begin.

Why even consider an organization with a very questionable record on defending our rights when you can easily team up with a group that believes in and fights for all 10 of the BOR?

I can't think of a better group to associate with if you favor organizations with 4 letters in their shortened name.

John
Charlotte, NC

[19-3Ben]

Already did it a year ago. great organization.

[ReadyontheRight]

I agree. Life member. They are the gun group doing the best job of educating exactly WHY all of us citizens need to preserve the right to keep and bear arms.

Never again.

[Slugless]

Glad to see this post! I was going to start a thread asking about them:

What's JPFO's policy w.r.t. irritating mass mailings begging for money saying the sky is falling down & Janet Reno's taking your adopted child whenever an anti-RKBA lawmaker shifts in his seat?

I donate to the NRA but I won't join (at this point) after hearing a couple friend's stories about their junk mail deluge & how they won't join again. But they still get the junk mail....

I emailed JPFO about their policy but got no response. Too bad, I like their attitude.

Thanks.

[Hawk]

I'm not an annual member but my name scrolls by in the end credits of "Innocents Betrayed".

There's been very little in the way of junk mail from JPFO.

One recent campaign of theirs was so breathtakingly ill concieved I believe they rate the "stepping on one's own anatomy" award for the year if not the decade. Instantly elevated the SAF several notches in my personal rating system.

One could do worse than sending them money in addition to the NRA. I couldn't get my arms around the concept of sending them money in lieu of the NRA. If the NRA junk mail bothers you, tell them to knock it off - instructions are on the website.

[TexasRifleman]

Junk email is just a poor excuse not to donate to a group, they will all stop the email if you just ask them. They all have steps in place for that.

As for JPFO I hear a lot about them but I can't get much of a feel for where they are actually involved in things.

Anyone have info on that other than the JPFO website itself?

[Citroen]

JPFO produces some outstanding "informational" material and you can buy it at very reasonable prices. I have only been a member for a short while but have never received any mail that I did not first request.

I have ordered quantities of their Grand'Pa Jack booklets and distribute them; I have bought a copy of Innocents Betrayed and shown it to a number of friends and co-workers. I even bought one of their golf shirts (now available in navy blue and looks and fits great) which seems to raise some eyebrows in some places!

I am a member of most of the pro 2nd Amendment organizations and the three who never seem to send out "begging" letters are Grassroots Carolina, JPFO and VCDL.

The letters from the NRA don't bother me. If that is their only sin, I can definitely overlook it.

I do know that money is required to wage a war and I also believe that the battle to preserve the right of self defense is part of that war.

John
Charlotte, NC

[phoglund]

I'm a member as well and don't have problems with junk mail, junk email, or annoying phone calls from them. I did have problems with NRA, particularly with phone calls. I told them once I didn't want to hear from them again on the phone and they haven't called since! I think JPFO is worthy of Pro RKBA donations.

[Slugless]

Tex,

:confused: I did say that I donate to them. I just haven't joined as a member.

It's junk mail, selling my name to mailing lists, etc. that I do not like. Every contact I have had with the NRA (mostly unsolicited mailings) is chicken-little stuff and it rubs me the wrong way. My friends have had such negative experiences with the NRA that I felt like joining a smaller org.

Sooo...There are some positive comments and one tripping over oneself comment.

I'm annoyed that they haven't responded to my email.

Someone is going to get more of my money and claim me as a member. Right now it looks like JPFO or SAF. At this point I'm still leaning towards JPFO.

[Citroen]

Slug, the best way to contact any small organization (lots of volunteers that may not be reading the e-mails daily) is by telephone. I called to ask if Christians could join and was welcomed in. I called not long ago to place an order (I do not like to put credit card info on-line). A very pleasant lady answered, took my order, confirmed it via e-mail and shipped it promptly.

For the $25 it costs per year I find JPFO to be a great value. Plus I am really impressed with their material - both printed and DVD.

I think the number is (262) 673-9745.

John
Charlotte, NC

[Slugless]

Thanks Citroen - I forgot about the volunteer thing. Sometimes I forget to pick up the phone and call. :rolleyes:

[Historic Arms LLC]

The effort in documentation provided by JPFO is self explainitory.

If you don't understand, you must see:

Innocents Betrayed

BATFE fails the test

The Gang

Not theories, not stories, but cold uncomfortable facts. Video footage or actual documents.

Pardon the pun, but JPFO gives you more bang for your buck.

[feedthehogs]

JPFO has done some good things and produced good educational material.

Our local gun group sends them 500/yr.

But there's no one doing firearms education and training like the NRA does.

To deny them continued support based on the ILA and its tree killing spree and the occasional sky is falling alert is wrong.

It shows a level of thinking that frankly equals that to a bunch of grade school kids on the playground fighting.

If every gun owner would send the equivalent of one 20 round box of good ammo or a 12 pack of beer or a carton of cigarettes, etc, to assorted gun groups the better off we'd be.

Besides, if the gun owners had been paying attention and voting and supporting gun rights, the ILA would never have needed to come into being.

[mrreynolds]

Join as many groups as you feel support 2A. I never get calls or tons of junk mail from the NRA & if you do at least they acknowledge that you exist..IMHO

[Citroen]

Feed - I don't believe anyone was suggesting that we abandon the NRA. My membership with them is paid up until 2015 and I send the NRA and their various sub-groups contributions on a regular basis. I am an NRA instructor so I certainly support them.

What I am suggesting is that joining the JPFO is also worthy of consideration. In my case, after more than 30 years of doing what I thought was supporting the 2nd Amendment and belonging to a hole fistfull of organizations, I just now learned that JPFO accepts Christian members! I thought that perhaps some others on the board were like me and had never contacted them.

Their material is the best I have ever seen and I have read a lot of "stuff". While I do believe that too many organizations may delute our resources and lack real power, I also believe that if you can afford to support several of them you should consider JPFO.

Regardless, you should read their material and decide if some of the booklets would be good to circulate to family and friends or even strangers!

John
Charlotte, NC The 8th most dangerous city in the nation

[Robert Hairless]

And let us not forget the bold JPFO initiative to "Put Gun Haters on the Run" with its "Goody Guns" program (http://www.goodyguns.com):

The program, called "Goody Guns", consists of a special cookie cutter in the shape of a semiautomatic pistol or revolver. With the supervision and help of the adults in their lives, boys and girls can turn their own kitchens into "Arsenals of Liberty" by making gun-shaped cookies to keep and share, while absorbing firearms safety lessons the public schools would never teach them, and which the mass media don't want to see taught.

http://www.goodyguns.com/img/cutter2r.jpg

Among the firearms safety lessons the public schools would never teach your family, and which the mass media don't want to see taught, you can teach your boys and girls to eat their guns. Yummy.

The NRA is far too timid to sell cookie cutters in the shape of a revolver or semi-automatic pistol. Only Aaron Zelman and JPFO are daring enough to strike directly at the heart of gun control in this novel, rational way that strikes fear and terror in the Brady Campaign and other anti gun forces:

Aaron Zelman, founder and director of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), unveiled a new program to counteract the unceasingly lies and dangerous propaganda of the victim disarmament (aka "gun control") lobby -- lies and propaganda mostly aimed at a captive audience of children in the public school system, and spread like a disease by the mass media -- while providing hours of wholesome family fun.

Forget the NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation. Let your dough show the world that gun owners mean business. Join the JPFO and buy a Goody Gun cookie cutter today and have hours of wholesome family fun too. While they eat your rights, your entire family can nibble your cookies and strike a telling blow for gun ownership. Don't be a crumb. Join JPFO today.

http://www.goodyguns.com/img/cutter1.jpg

[JLStorm]

The problem with the JPFO is that it is so aggressive that it scares many gun owners that arent complete gun nuts. They seem very paranoid to most people . I am Jewish, and I have many family members that would love to support a Jewish firearms organization, but to be honest they are just too aggressive and some of their arguments have good intentions, but they over sell it.

[Citroen]

In 1963 I had the priviledge to work for Barry Goldwater; I heard him say this and it stuck with me, "When it comes to freedom, silence is not golden, it is yellow!"

Everyone should chose their own level of involvement but as for me, I will fight an aggressive fight as the alternative is to lose.

If resistence to the gun grabbers frightens gun owners, then Heaven protect us as we can no longer protect ourselves.

We will all hang together or we will hang separately. Pass the cookies, I think I will have the revolver shaped one with the white frosting. Thank you.

John
Charlotte, NC The 8th Most Dangerous City in the Nation

[Ohen Cepel]

I joined GOA and JPFO, not sure my memberships are up to date. However, I still send in money from time to time and will continue to do so.

I think both are great organizations. Hell, I almost joined "Pink Pistols" but just couldn't do it.

I think JPFO can say things and shove history in the face of people in a way that others can't, and they seem to do so with success. That is why I support them!

Always PC, no; but I'm good with that!

For the people that continue to whine about the NRA sending junk mail, just throw it in the trash. I get very little from them and it's not an issue for me.

[yesit'sloaded]

The problem with the JPFO is that it is so aggressive that it scares many gun owners that arent complete gun nuts. They seem very paranoid to most people . Coming from a people that had their babies used for target practice by nazi thugs, I don't think they are aggressive at all. Then again I'm one of those "what part of infringe do you not understand" kind of guys.

[Robert Hairless]

In 1963 I had the priviledge to work for Barry Goldwater; I heard him say this and it stuck with me, "When it comes to freedom, silence is not golden, it is yellow!"

Everyone should chose their own level of involvement but as for me, I will fight an aggressive fight as the alternative is to lose.

If resistence to the gun grabbers frightens gun owners, then Heaven protect us as we can no longer protect ourselves.

We will all hang together or we will hang separately. Pass the cookies, I think I will have the revolver shaped one with the white frosting. Thank you.

Barry Goldwater's extremist views in that Presidential election when you worked for him frightened the American public so badly that it gave Lyndon B. Johnson and the Democrats landslide victories, swept Republicans and Conservatives out of office throughout the country, made it possible for Liberals to pass the "Great Society" programs, and resulted in The Gun Control Act of 1968 (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29197). It seems foolish to have nostalgia for such a disaster and to want people to recreate it.

Some people learn from such experiences. They allow reality to provide useful feedback for their hostile and destructive inclinations and adjust their behavior until it produces satisfactory results. Other people never learn. They blame reality and insist that their behavior is correct. It isn't. When you bang your head against the wall you will hurt your head. You can't make it stop hurting by banging harder or blaming the wall.

With nearly half a century to reflect on the disastrous results created by your work for Barry Goldwater in that 1963 election, perhaps you should stop encouraging others to behave the same failed way and cause the same dismal results once again.

A vision of the world that sees only the two options of hanging together or hanging separately dooms people because it channels them into being hung one way or the other. But hanging is inevitable only for people who refuse to see that they need not be trapped in the past and should not repeat the awful mistakes they made then or encourage others to make the same mistakes.

It is a mistake for gun owners to alienate the American public. When gun owners present themselves as extremists at war with the public and the "gun grabbers" also present gun owners as extremists at war with the public, the American public has every right to believe that gun owners are in fact extremists who intend to do them harm.

One result of such stupid behavior is that the public recoils in horror even when little kids draw pictures of guns. Nobody wants to be terrorized by threatening people. Gun owners need to stop demonizing themselves--unless, of course, they want to lose their ability to own and use firearms.

It is an equally great mistake to alienate a great many other gun owners by insisting that those who refuse to pursue extremist approaches are contemptible cowards. Statements such as "If resistence to the gun grabbers frightens gun owners, then Heaven protect us as we can no longer protect ourselves" are self defeating.

You cannot threaten people badly enough to make them your friends. And when you alienate those people who want to be your friends, all you have is an increasing number of enemies. Barry Goldwater never understood that. His loss continues to hurt us all. Hang together or hang separately as you choose, but it is not good to hang and there's no need to do so.

Many of us would prefer to win while living in harmony with our neighbors instead of antagonizing them to the point at which they consider us their enemies.

[chemist308]

Good thread. I'll be joining them this month. I meant to do it earlier. We need to do more though. We need to back pro 2A candidates financially, and we need to vote together, especially on this upcoming election. But we also need to be backing organizations like JFPO.

[txrooster]

JPFO was an eye opener to me with their movie "The Gang". I suggest everyone see it.

[willbrink]

"Junk email is just a poor excuse not to donate to a group,"

I was thinking the same thing. Of all the junk mail I get, my NRA junk mail is my favorite. Kidding aside, take junk male, drop in trash or recycle bin, move on with your life, or ask them not to send it. It's not rocket science or a legit reason not to support the group (with all its warts and problems yes) that has the most mojo in Washington to protect your rights.

I belong to 3 groups at the moment, two national and one local, though JPFO is not one of them at this time. I do however refer people to the web site all the time.

[Slugless]

I sure wish some people would read postings more closely.

"Junk email is just a poor excuse not to donate to a group,"

and yet I stated

I donate to the NRA

Sheesh.

[Citroen]

Alright, Robert, I concede that you are eloquent. Exactly how would you suggest that those of use, ignorant as we are, act to ensure that the Second Amendment continues to exist as it was written?

I will dispute your view of history and your estimation of the intelligence of the vast majority of the population but I would still like to know - What Would You Have Us to Do?

Frankly I am rather proud to be a member of an excellent organization such as JPFO and I would encourage others to look at them and decide for themselves, not listen to naysayers who would decide for us.

John
Charlotte, NC 8th Most Dangerous City in the Nation

[sandanbob]

I tried visiting their website (www.jpfo.org) tonight, and got both a "404 not found" message, and a "403 forbidden- you don't have permission..."

So, it seems they are currently down?

Note- 10 minutes later, it seems they are up again. Oops.

[John Ross]

I am JPFO's first Life Member. IMO JPFO does more with less money than anyone else in the country. And they can say things I can't.

My favorite: "Most Jews have a gas chamber mentality," which is what Aaron Zelman said to an interviewer who asked why so many Jews were antigun despite the obvious fact that universal gun ownership would have made the Holocaust impossible.

Great organization.

JR

[TexasRifleman]

I sure wish some people would read postings more closely.

I wish some people would stop thinking a post was directed at them specifically when it wasn't at all.

How many threads you seen on here with people complaining about the junk mail from NRA? What makes you think anyone meant you?

Sheesh yourself.

[PILMAN]

The problem with the JPFO is that it is so aggressive that it scares many gun owners that arent complete gun nuts. They seem very paranoid to most people . I am Jewish, and I have many family members that would love to support a Jewish firearms organization, but to be honest they are just too aggressive and some of their arguments have good intentions, but they over sell it.

You should be paranoid too, don't forget "Never Again".

[NRAwol]

Why in the world would anyone -- who's paying attention -- defend their pro-gun credentials by saying "I donate to the NRA"??!?

http://nrawol.net/images/banner_gif_2_64.gif (http://www.nrawol.net)

[ThomasPaine]

Donating money to the NRA is a waste of money. You get more bag for you gun rights buck burning $20 bills in your front yard.

The NRA-ILA is a bunch of compromising, Gucci wearing wimps.

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

representin NC well,
thanks for the post

looking into joining something new, although at the moment I feel like giving money to a politician.
Wait, did I just say that.....
:eek:

st

[Slugless]

Tex,

I hadn't seen any of those threads before. I apologize.

Better yet, since reading these threads I've re-joined the NRA. And joined JPFO.
.

[Citroen]

Slug, the more I read, the more impressed I am with JPFO. Hopefully they will send you some back issues of their newsletter so you can judge for yourself.

The Spring 2002 issue contains two articles that are simply outstanding - "The Last of the BOHICANS" by Zelman and Wolfe followed by "Why Should You Join Us?" by Stevens. These articles alone are worth the price of membership.

Welcome aboard!
John
Charlotte, NC