[firestar]

Everyone seems to bash extant guns for one reason or another but just as a mental exercise, what would be the ultimate CCW semi-auto? I don't mean fantansy gun, I mean a gun that could be made tomarrow in a existing caliber. Does the gun exist already? Some times it is just a tweaking of an existing gun that would make it perfect.

Here is my stab at it. Based on today's world, there are some things that would make sense.

1. It should be chambered in 9mm because it is the cheapest centerfire ammo right now and there are plenty of different loads for this cal.

2. It should hold 7-10 shots. Since the mag ban, there is no point in it being able to hold more if mags are not available.

3. It should weigh less than 16ozs unloaded.

4. It should be as slim as possible because that is the most important dimension in a CCW. Slim is easier to carry than fat.

5. It should have no safeties or lever of any kind that will make it unable to shoot by simply pulling the trigger. De-cock levers are O.K. but no safeties that stop the trigger from working.

6. The grip should be as slim as possible and it should be long enough to get at least two fingers on it or three with an extension maybe.

7. It should come stock with express style night sights.

8. It should be made of all non corrosive parts for protection against sweat.

9. It should sit as low in the hand as possible. Also the bore axis should be as low as possible to reduce recoil.

10. It should have less recoil than normal for a gun of this size.

11. It should have a DA/SA or a DAO trigger.

12. It should have double strike capability.

13. The trigger should be light and smooth, it can be long however.

14. Most importantly, it should be RELIABLE, if it is not 100% reliable, it is worthless.

15. It should be priced at a level that most can afford. Less than $500 street price seems right.

That is my ideal CCW, I'm sure others have differnet views as to what makes a gun "perfect" for CCW but that is mine. The Kahr P-series and Kel-Tec P-11 are the closest to what I have in mind but niether fit the bill perfectly for various reasons.

I suppose the Kahr PM9 with finger hook extension mag and Ashly Express night sights would be the closest existing gun for me. Why don't I own one? I am not 100% sure if they have worked out all the bugs of the design yet and I don't want to be a beta tester again.

[Seeker]

BHP

[firestar]

BHP? Really? That is the "Perfect" CCW for you? You wouldn't change a thing? Not flamming you, I guess I have just not found a gun that i am 100% happy with for CCW yet.

I seem to want things that are mutually exclusive, like hi capacity and light weight.:D Or light weight and small size and low recoil.:D

[Ian11]

If they made the Glock 26 as a single stack I would be quite happy with that. A .40 or .357 SIG in a single stack that size would be too much for my tender hands. :o

As of this time they don't. Why? Mystery to me. Oh yeah, the new Glock .45:banghead: Probably the same reason they didn't come out with a single stack version of the Glock 21. :banghead: :banghead: What are these market researchers at Glock thinking?:rolleyes:

Dear Glock Inc. , If you have an opening I'm available.:D

[jc2]

Sounds a lot like a Sig P225 to me.

[David4516]

Makarov

"2. It should hold 7-10 shots. Since the mag ban, there is no point in it being able to hold more if mags are not available. "

Check

"4. It should be as slim as possible because that is the most important dimension in a CCW. Slim is easier to carry than fat. "

Check

"6. The grip should be as slim as possible and it should be long enough to get at least two fingers on it or three with an extension maybe. "

Check

"11. It should have a DA/SA or a DAO trigger."

Check

"12. It should have double strike capability."

Check

"14. Most importantly, it should be RELIABLE, if it is not 100% reliable, it is worthless.

15. It should be priced at a level that most can afford. Less than $500 street price seems right."

Check and Check. These two aspects are the Makarovs greatest virtues. For me they are the most important factors, becasue my life may depend on my gun, but I don't have alot of cash to spend on it either (I'm a student working part time).

If I could change anything about the Mak, it would probably be the sights. It would be nice if it was chambered for 9mm Luger and not 9mm Makarov, but it's blow-back design wouldn't really be able to handle the 9mm Luger...

But thats really nit-picking. Consdering what you get for your money, it is a truly amazing handgun IMHO...

[denfoote]

Ladies and Gentlemen.
I give you the perfect concealed carry pistol and rig.

Glock 26. :D
Modified with the minus connector and reduced power trigger spring, Trijicon night sights, Agrip, and supplemented with two 17 round G19 mags. Carried in a Galco dual mag pouch and a Predator Kydex IWB holster. :cool:

[9x19]

I'd vote for the Glock 26 in a holster, and the Kel-Tec P-11 or P-32 (based on size) if holster-less carry is more appropriate.

All have given me excellent service and good value for my money.

YMMV

[Mike Irwin]

I don't carry a semi-auto very much. I prefer revolvers.

But when I do carry a semi-auto, it's as often as not my Kahr K9.

As far as I'm concered it's about as close to perfect a CCW gun as can be had.

Yes, it's a little on the heavy side, but that helps tame recoil and allows fast followup shots.

[jem375]

g26 for the 9MM..........witness 10MM compact, S&W Model 66, and G27 for guys not afraid to spend a little more for ammo for a better caliber.....

[Poohgyrr]

The Hi Power is my favorite autoloading pistol and first choice here. Second choice here would be something in the S&W 3913 series. Third choice would be a tie between the S&W 5906, and any of the G19/23/30 pistols.

Tomorrow?? Well, the Hi Power will still be first, the others may change.

[firestar]

I am surprised at how many people think stock guns are perfect. I thought that a lot more people would have been trying to make up a gun from bits and pieces of other guns.

My list is just what I think would make the best CCW, the gun you vote for doesn't have to fit into in any way. I guess I am kind of interested in how many of my choices are NOT shared by others. I seem to think that what I want is what the public wants but the gun companies are too stupid to give it to them. What I think now is, the gun companies have no clue what shooters want because everybody wants something different.

[jem375]

well, then buy a Springfield XD.......they are supposed to be a combination of 3 major handguns...................Sig, H&K, and I think Glock.........

[Tamara]

I prefer something bigger than 9mm; 9x19 works just fine, but I wouldn't consider it "ideal".

Weight isn't that big of an issue for me, nor is length, if carried in a good IWB rig. Sure, I'd like a recoilless 5 oz. .44 Magnum, but there are those pesky laws of physics to deal with; so I'll sacrifice light weight to gain controllability and sight radius.

I want a short single-action trigger of about 3.5 to 5 pounds, which kinda mandates a safety of some sort, so the safety needs to be positioned such that grasping the gun in a normal firing grip positions one to take the safety off with no extraneous thumb gymnastics.

Skinny is good, low bore axis is swell; slimness helps make concealability, ergonomics help make accuracy.

[9x19]

...the gun companies have no clue what shooters want because everybody wants something different.

Yep!

Likewise, shooters are different in terms of how much refinement they demand from the box, or what type trigger they can effectively manage, and their hand size, their stature, etc., ad infinitum.

Just be glad that there is such a wide variety... I know I am.

[themic]

ok, i'll bite.

i'd like to see the Kahr p9 or MK9 made in titanium, cause i don't like plastic too much, and hte MK9 is weirdly heavy for its size, essentially precluding pocket carry.. also with double strike capability, and a slightly shorter trigger pull, but otherwise their elite triggger is great.

actually, my primary problem with Kahrs is that i can't afford one.

i'm also really looking forward to trying out the P3AT. plastic i know, but damn it looks promisingly small and light.

[Andrew Wyatt]

lightweight commander in .45 ACP with ambi safety, somewhat High visibilty fixed sights, micarta grip panels, bevelled magazine well, and 25% bluing.

[firestar]

lightweight commander in .45 ACP with ambi safety, somewhat High visibilty fixed sights, micarta grip panels, bevelled magazine well, and 25% bluing.

Where do you find a gun with 25% bluing? Is that some kind of custom job or something?:D

[Andrew]

I would go with the Walther P99:cool:

[tlhelmer]

I prefer the Glock 19 unless you are going to carry on the ankle. Then I would get a Glock 26.

[clown714]

MMMmmm

lest see.trying not to reveal my age:rolleyes:

i'm at my 3rd.renewal for my CCW.could be 4th;)

started w\charter arms.44spcl bulldog+accs.
bobbed hammer,trig job,narrow front\widen rear sight,bead blast
top strap.2-1\2"bbl SS. she's in my fanny pak on my long walkabouts
w\200gr.silvertip she hit's POA.tried and trusted.

1911 colt custom

glock 27:banghead: (what was I,thinking)

LW officers 1911

Kimber ultra carry w\wilson compact grips,ambi safety,and skate board tape front strap.silly holsters to match every occasion:D

just my $.02

clown

[Soap]

If I listed all of my "perfect" characteristics I would just end up describing a Government model 1911.

[dude]

P7M8 (duh)

[Lennyjoe]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p904ad1144a6dadfd8f6dc593edb801e9/fcf6b397.jpg
The G19 of course!!

Current carry set up. G19 in a Gould & Goodrich belt holster. 15 round mag stoked with 124 gr +P+ Federal Hydra Shock JHP.

Spare 17 round mag in a Bianchi leather mag holder on standby

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p6519da72137d33a220e4d4401b86fced/fcf6b398.jpg

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Firestar, the word "perfect" means a lot of
different things to different people. What's "perfect"
for me, may not be "perfect" for you. And with that
said, the "perfect" 9m/m for me is the
SIG-Sauer P228; or US military designation, the M11.
It has all the qualities that I look for; and those are:

A. RELIABILITY

B. CRAFTSMANSHIP

C. EXTREME ACCURACY

D. EASE OF OPERATION

E. AND SIGARMS OFFERS EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE!


I know that the SIG-Sauer P228 doesn't necessarily fit
your criteria; but I had to respond when I saw that you were
looking for the "perfect 9m/m". I don't think any 9m/m
will be "perfect" for every body, all the time!:uhoh: :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[sm]

Many guns exist already that fit your criteria.

I'm a SA fan so I like the BHP, in 9mm

Now IF I were to "build" My perfect gun, Caspian Frame and Side 1911 style in 9x23 single stack.

Until then, my current choice is the same I've used for many a year. 1911 full or commander size in .45ACP.

I've been shooting the 9x23, I like it a bunch...if I had money and wanted something different. I don't usually get into different...this has my attention.

[Spackler]

Some criteria for me (no hard and fast rules, though):
DA/SA operation rather than DAO.

Hammer rather than striker-fired.

I like a pistol that's light-weight, but not so light that it's a handful to shoot (see S&W's new airlite .44). 20-25 ounces unloaded is fine.

7-10 rounds of 9x19 or .40S&W.

Full grip frame (no dangling pinky).

7" or under total length.

Slim. It's relative, but I know it when I see it.

Decent sights.

I like the S&W 3913, 4013, and it looks as though the 4040PD will be a nice carry gun. Sig P239 is also a good one, as is the P225, but it's a bit bigger than the 239 and the Smiths.

[Boudicca]

Glock 36.

[12-34hom]

I like it.

[venom600]

I'll have to second Andrew's vote for the P99. It meets every one of your criteria except:

3) It weighs right around 25 oz. unloaded
7) No night sights out of the box, but $65 and 10 minutes of your time to slap on a set of Meprolight night sights should solve that.

The weight issue isn't a real big one (within reason, no-one wants to CCW a 5 pound gun), if you've got a good holster. And the sights are pretty easy to change. A new P99 + Meprolights would probably run you closer to $550 though, so that may put us in violation of requirement #15. Close though.

--Ben

[jame]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the Sig 239 yet.





Oops,.....I guess I just did.:D

[Zip06]

My personal choice would either be a BHP or a Glock 19. Both carry well on my chubby 5'9" frame in a Milt Sparks SS2. Body ergonomics sure plays a role in this decision. Most of the firearms already mentioned are really outstanding.

[firestar]

The closest I have come to "perfection" was my Kahr K-9 that I stupidly sold because it was a little too heavy. If Kahr made a Titanium frame K-9 style pistol, I would plunk down my cash for one as long as it wasn't over $600. I think Kahrs are going for too much right now. They are selling for MSRP around me and used is never a deal either. I haven't seen a new or used Kahr for less than $500 in a while.

[PCRCCW]

Well....I cant see why anyone responded to this....there is NO gun that meets your criteria. CCW is a compromise and IMO, the Kahr is the better choice for you. The double strike thing is gonna bite you.

Weight and size of sorts can be hidden with a good CCW holster....I carry a fullsize gun ALOT and yould never know it.

Shoot well.

[New_comer]

USP P2000 subcompact

But it would probably be selling at twice your price ceiling. :(

[CZ-100]

I think it is the one that you shoot well and are comfortable with.

[Marko Kloos]

USP P2000 subcompact

But it would probably be selling at twice your price ceiling.

You know, I like HK pistols as much as the next guy, but the projected MSRP for the P200 will be in the high $800 range, probably close to $900.

Now, I can see myself shelling out that much money for a P7 or a P9S, but this is a freakin' plastic pistol. Polymer is supposed to be cheaper to make than steel or alloy frames. It looks like a neat gun, but I'm not too sure I'd want to spend nine bills on a plastic gun.

[themic]

how bout this.. the best of both worlds!

http://www.glocktalk.com/attachment.php?postid=1724060

[Pocket Pistol]

The NIB P9 and PM9 Kahr's are going for $500 all day :)

For the money you can not beat them
for Size, Weight, Firepower, reliability, accuracy, durability.

There are some out there and new ones on the way that may be as good as a Kahr in some areas, but none even get close to a Kahr at twice the price.

[Safety First]

Sig P-239 9mm, but then what do I know, it is the only hand gun I own...

[12-34hom]

Themic ; That sir is even uglier than a Glock.

That is truly spawned from the depths of hell....

:evil:

12-34hom.

[varoadking]

If it's the only one you ever own, you still did well. Great pistol, though the .357SIG version does "sing"...:D

[clubsoda22]

Springfield XD subcompact. Base model is about $450. Little over $500 with night sights. Around $600 with indestructible teflon factory coating.

Carries 10 rounds in the magazine and as your secondary mag you can modify an XD40 mag to take 9mm by squeezing the feed lips just a tiny bit, effectively making a 15 round 9mm magazine (this is completely legal. will not fit flush, which is why i say as a second mag)

It has multiple user operated safeties (trigger and grip safety) outshoots the glock 26 yet is the same exact size (sub 2" @ 15 yards offhand, able to pick off an empty box of 9's at 50 yards more than half the time according to American Handgunner).

Weight is 20oz unloaded. Loaded weight can be reduced by carrying lighter ammo (in all guns). My personal favorite is aguila IQ. Uses a 65 grain aluminum bullet which is nice if you want to punch holes in bulletproof glass and cars, though it doesn't overpenetrate if it hits a soft target (fragments into 3 or 4 pieces).

Closest i can think of....i certainly want one :D

[New_comer]

XD subcompact...

They shoulda released one without that accessory rail. That 'feature' only added bulk to what's supposed to be a concealment gun :rolleyes:

[Dr.Rob]

You know of all the full sized autos the BHP has the slimmest slide, and that makes tucking it away pretty east. For all the steel framed autos, its no heavier than most. As far as the grip with, for a widebody its still slim. With skelton grips even slimmer.

But imagine an alloy framed BHP with a shorter slide? Sort of a "Commander lightwieght" version? That would be a neat thing. If Colt can make an alloy frame that stands up to +p pressure from 45 acp, you'd think there could be the same in a 9mm HP or clone.

Really to each his own, there is no "one" soultion for everyone.

[clubsoda22]

it barely adds anything, and a slight bit of extra plastic infront of the trigger guard isn't gonna make it hard to conceal.

[Poohgyrr]

I've heard of a batch of alloy framed Hi Powers made for someone, and yes it sounds good.

[JeepDriver]

Sig P239

You can pick your caliber.

Bu for me it's a 9mm. Loaded with 124+p GoldDots