[dust_101]

Ok, so I just got some of the best news ever... my birthday is coming up and my Wife just told me we should get me a good dedicated hunting rifle. :what:

Other than almost falling over in my chair, I'm now looking into the huge task of finding a good rifle. The land I've been hunting on the past few years is in a county where I can only hunt with a slug gun, and my Mossy 500 has been doing fine (the pink fleshy part behind the gun shot the tree instead of the deer).

I now have the open invite to hunt another area of land where I can finally use a rifle. So the fun of deciding on a cartridge begins. I've already narrowed the field down by going with a bolt-action rifle, either a Win70 Rem700 or a Sav110, but that is more of a go hold each one and be SURE I like it.

I'm torn between getting a .30-06 or a .308 and my logic tells me to go with the 06 and use a proper bullet weight for the quarry of the day's hunt. Funny thing is, just recently while browsing the new/used rifles, I asked just a general opinion question of the folks behind the counter as to getting Rifle X in a .30-06. The response from the 2 guys behind the counter, and then chimed in from the 5 or 6 other guys in the store shopping was essentially "Forget the 06 (waste of money, blah blah) and just get a .308!"

I was amazed at the unified response, is the .308 just that much better? Personally I feel the 06 is a fine time-proven cartridge, and is something I can setup for varmints, deer, bear, and even elk/moose with the proper bullet weights and powder.

The kicker to this, was the fact there was also a Win70 in .300 Win Mag there that was an attractive price :D Might be a bit much for whitetail, but would b a nice round with all the freakin bears out this year....

So am I just behind the times with the .30-06 and is the .308 THAT much better?!

[eliphalet]

Follow what your logic has already told you. 300 is more than needed, I own both 30-06 and 308. If it came to only one it would be the 30-06. 308 has no advantage over the '06 except a shorter action which you will never notice hunting other than that it is for the most part inferior.

[righteousbarbarian]

well i don't know about NO advantage. the .308 is known to be an exceptionally accurate cartridge.

[hceptj]

I own both and you wouldn't go wrong with either one. According to what I read most people say the .308 is more accurate, but the way I shoot, I can't tell the difference...;)

You mentioned bears so I might lean a little more towards the -06 myself since it comes with some heavier bullet weights.

Just have fun shopping...:)

[Bearhands]

You really can't go wrong with either one (06 or 308) period. The 300 is very expensive to feed (practice) and if you ask any hunter that has some years behind him, he'll tell you that you don't need it. Both the 06 and 308 are tried and true hunting calibers. I can't wait to have the plethora of other calibers offered up to you now.. LOL

[learningman]

I would disregard what those guy's said about the 06. It's a great round as is the 308. If I had to chose though it would be the 06. For all the animals that you have listed there I personally would feel most comfortable with the 06 in my hands. As for the 300wm, I own and shoot one and love it but may be a bit much for the majority of you hunting. You would not go wrong with either three, but in this case I vote 06.

[tinygnat219]

Go with the '06. There have to be more loads made for this cartridge than anything else out there.

[kmrcstintn]

one thing to consider is versatility...there is not one gun /caliber that can do it all, but the .30-06 has alot of different factory loads for it and reloading opens the gambit even more; as an example, Remington loads a 55 gr saboted load for smaller critters; lots of stuff falls into the 150 gr and 180 gr weight classes; there are reduced recoil loads & fast-n-light loads in 125 gr; there are factory loads in 220 gr for very large North American critters; you have traditional softpoint loads as well as today's ballistic tipped, bonded, patitioned, and solid copper loads

so you start with a good reliable platform and good 3-9 x 40 scope for deer & maybe bear using ammunition in 150 gr or 180 gr; later on start looking at combos for other game (same rifle, different scope, different ammo); as an example, you decide to start hunting coyotes and you realize that the 150 gr deer ammo is a bit much for coyote...now you want to use a 125 gr load and shoot longer distances, so now you want a scope with higher magnification...let's say a 4.5-14 x 40 scope, but you like having a 3-9 x 40 for deer...invest in a few sets of quick disconnect rings and weaver style bases; as your hunting seasons change, you can switch scopes & ammo while still using the same rifle

[Bartkowski]

I like using heavy for caliber bullets so the -06 gets my vote.

[dust_101]

I don't want to knock the .308 at all, it looks to be a fine cartridge but I view this rifle as being like my pocket knife. Tested, reliable, and useful in most any situation depending on how you hold it! If I take out an '06 hunting whitetail and I know there may be black bears around, a nice 180gr would be a good choice. If I was going after groundhogs out on my property, a lighter 110gr VMAX or a 125gr ballistic tip would work well, even for coyotes, then step it up to 200+ grains for larger game... overall a wide selection of weights and good choices.

Plus just about any store with any ammo should have at least one flavor of '06 on the shelves.

...just waiting for the .308 folks to come in here and read me the riot act!

[30-06 lover]

I would choose the '06. The 308 is a fine cartridge, and I own one, but the '06 is far more popular amoung hunters due to reputation and versatility, no to mention the easiest round to find anywhere. I personally have zero use for any mag. The recoil too much for me, so I can't shoot them well. They are also very expensive to shoot as well. I had a 300 win mag for about a year, and traded as soon as the chance came. Your needs and abilities are surley different, but I still vote '06.

[glockman19]

I went with the .30-06.

[ojibweindian]

Good choice.

[MCgunner]

The .308 has a HUGE advantage over .30-06 to ME. It's chambered in the very light, very handy little M7 Remington. Don't have to haul a big, heavy long action rifle around and it is easier to maneuver in a blind or stand. I love that little rifle, big enough to take anything I'll ever hunt and so easy to tote and 1 MOA accuracy. I do have a long action gun, in 7mm rem mag. That's another debate, though. But, just remember, the rifle is a SYSTEM, rifle and caliber chambered in it.

Now, I think you NEED the .30TC. It's the latest and greatest and, while it will do absolutely NOTHING that the .308 won't do, hey, you can brag about having the latest and greatest and most up to datest to your friends. :rolleyes:

no to mention the easiest round to find anywhere

I don't think so. I'd say .30-30 is probably the easiest and anywhere you find .30-06, you'll find the 7.62x51mm NATO or .308. AND, mil surp, if that's an issue, is a lot more available in .308. I never fired anything out of mine, but handloads, however. I don't buy factory ammo. But, If I was stuck in BF Egypt and needed ammo, I'd as quickly find .308 as .30-06, I'm sure.

BTW, I don't find 7mm Remington Magnum kicks any harder perceptibly than .30-06 in the same model rifle. .300 does, but anything the .300 can kill in the lower 48, my 7 can, or my .308 for that matter. The .308 will just have to get a few yards closer.

And, there ain't a black bear built that takes an 06 to kill, .30-30 is plenty enough gun for black bear. Back in the eastern woods, since most are killed over bait inside 50 yards, .30-30 or .35 Remington are quite popular bear guns.

Whatever floats your boat. It's a debate over details. They're all good calibers, .300 to .30-30.

[Smokey Joe]

Dust 101--You'll wait a long time for the .308 guys to come up with anything material against the grand old '06, except for its longer length, which (as has been pointed out) in a hunting rifle is immaterial.

And as has been pointed out, there are a greater variety of store-bought loads for the '06 available, although some of the loads you'll never see on the shelves of any but the largest well-stocked stores. (But anything can be ordered, of course.)

If you handload, the '06, with its larger case, is more versatile. (And with the way ammo prices are going, handloading gets more attractive all the time if you don't already!) Start saving the brass now, so when you do buy a handloading press you'll have a supply!

The .308 has sneeringly been called the ".30-'06 Kurz" (German for "short.") But really, there is NO moss on the .308. And you can handload it for almost any purpose for which you can load an '06. The .308 is regarded as more accurate, but that's mostly because the high-power rifle shooters use it a lot (due to high-grade surplus .308 ammo being more available than '06 nowadays--a serious match shooter burns up a LOT of ammo in practice!) and at least one class of high-power requires the .308. So it has taken a bunch of records that were formerly held by the '06--and previously by the .30-40 Krag, etc!

The .300 WM is a bit much, especially as a starter.

Bottom line: ANY of the 3 will do for you. I'd veer away from the .300 WM.
Shoot all 3 if you can find friends who will let you. Snap up a .308 OR an '06 that "feels right" to you and you get a nice price on, and with either you will not be sorry.

And, as always, remember that the journey is part of the destination. Good hunting.

[MCgunner]

I don't think action length is immaterial. My M7 weighs 2 and a half pounds less than my long action Savage and after a day hiking up and down mountains, it adds up. It's just as accurate, too, and it's a lot handier, even if you hunt blinds. It will pretty much kill anything a .30-06 will and about as far with up to 180 grains. A bullet I prefer for heavy game, though, is the 140 Barnes X. It hits within 1/2" of my Nosler 150 BT load shoots a little faster, and is controlled expansion with a better sectional density than the Nosler. I mostly shoot Noslers, but often hunt with the Barnes load because of hogs where I hunt can get big. I have actually passed on shooting one that was north of 300 lbs, just prefer smaller ones that taste better and I don't have a 4x4 front end loader. :D I hunt absolutely NOTHING that the .308 isn't an excellent caliber for. And, I'm quite convinced it is one of those inherently accurate rounds like the PPC rounds and the reason is efficiency with faster powders. It is also a little easier on the shoulder and cheaper to load since it uses less powder. I shoot ball powder, too, which meters a lot better in a volume powder measure than does the typical stick powders the .30-06 uses.

I've never owned a .30-06. When I wanted power, I went straight to the 7mm Remington Magnum. I pretty much have anything I'll ever hunt covered with those. The .30-06 is a good caliber and I'd considered one when I got the 7 mag, but I see little advantage to me in the 06. I can load the 7 about as easy and cheaply and get better performance for it in a long action rifle.

You do realize, though, we are debating merits of four of the top five (okay, I introduced the 7 mag into the thread) selling cartridges on the market today? I mean, it ain't like any one of 'em ain't a good choice.:rolleyes: Well, the .300 I'm not sure about, but it's definitely top 10.

Oh, I'll defend the .300 in a devils advocate sort of way, since no one has. :D I just like to argue. But, as a handloader, I can load the .300 down to the .30-06 or even the .30-30 in power, but I cannot load the .30-30 or 06 to .300 mag power levels. Advantage .300 mag to the .30-06 in long action guns. I can shoot anything the .30-06 can shoot and do it 100 yards farther. I can load 220 graiin plus rounds the much higher velocities. Yet, if I want .30-06 performance, all I have to do is cut the powder charge. This is why I bought the 7mm Magnum over the .280 when I was shopping. :D

If you don't handload, you're hamstringing yourself. I don't even care if a factory load is available for anything I shoot, personally. I own a Contender barrel in 7mm TCU, ever seen THAT one at Walmart? :D I have to fire form .223 to get my brass, don't even make BRASS for it to my knowledge. I mean, you guys can spend the paycheck on ammo, but not me! I'll load BETTER ammo for less. :D

[MDHunter]

You made a great choice in picking the 06!

You have a very wide range of cartridges available, don't need to handload to have access to a wide variety of loads, and can pick up 06 ammo anywhere that ammo is sold.

MCGUNNER - if he ever makes it to Alaska and gets separated from his ammo in small villages or the bush, he's sure to have access to ammo in three calibers - .30-06, .338 Winchester, and .375 H&H. It's no sure thing that there will be .308 or .300 WinMag ammo out there.....

As for the accuracy, the .308 may have a slight accuracy advantage from the bench, but most of us don't have a benchrest available when hunting, and the 06 can shoot 1 MOA all day with the right loads in the right hands, so it's plenty accurate for hunting purposes, and has been for over 100 years.

I shot game with the .30-30, .308, .30-06, and .338 WinMag.....unless you're after big Alaska brownies, the 06 is perfect for anything you can hunt in North America! Not saying it won't do the job on coastal Alaska bears, but I'd be taking the .338 if I was after them...

Michael

[eliphalet]

Edit:Think I would rather just let it go.

[Bearhands]

i smell a "sectional density" challenge comin on..... LOL. I think the original question has been hijacked

[MCgunner]

I'm not going to limit myself to cheap Remington ammo. That's why I handload. I've always handloaded. I don't even look at factory stuff. I shoot a 150 Sierra Game king to a 325 yard 3" PBR. I'm really not shooting it a lot hotter than factory, just 3150 fps, but it's got a BC of around .532. 7mm bullets have better BCs than .30 for a given application. Heavier bullets in 7 can be pushed even better due to the big case capacity of the 7, too.

But, okay, a quick look in "Extended Ballistics for the Advanced Rifleman" by Art Blatt, I show a Norma factory load 7 mm rem mag 150 grain load MV at 3250 fps. Sighted to a 200 yard zero, it's 1.5" up at 100 and 6.5" down at 300 retaining 1959 ft lbs at 300 yards. The Norma .30-06 150 grain is 2970 fps at the muzzle, 2.0" up at 100 and 8.1 down at 300 retaining 1547 ft lbs at 300 yards.

The Norma 170 grain factory shoots 3018 fps at the muzzle+1.9" at 100, -7.5" at 300. It hits 300 yards with 1937 ft lbs remaining. The .30-06 180 grain Norma (10 grains heavier) shoots 2700 fps at the muzzle is +2.4 at 100 and - 8.9 at 300. It hits 300 yards with 1783 ft lbs.

So, the 7 is flatter and carries more power even in a factory load like the Norma (first manufacturer I turned the page to, ain't cherry picking ballistics here). Properly zeroed, a good load with a boat tail spitzer will carry a 325-350 yard PBR in 7 mag and my handload is packin' 2263 ft lbs at 300 yards even though it starts out at only 3150 fps. In fact, at a full 500 yards its packing 1716 ft lbs. A good bullet makes a big difference and BCs are consistently better in 7mm than .30, that's why I like the caliber and why I was shooting 7mm TCU in IHMSA. My 7 is zero at 275, only 3.22 inches up at 150 (slightly over the 3" PBR, but close enough), and down 5.5" at 350. The hold over 400 is 11 inches at 500 yards is just 26 inches. Personally, though, I can see no situation I'd ever shoot past 350 or 400 at game, ever. So, really, on paper, the 7 mag will shoot farther than I will ever attempt a shot at game. And, for practical shots at game, the .308 will shoot as far as I'll ever attempt. That's why my 7 collects dust and my .308 gets the nod every time I head out the door. :D

Of course, apples and apples would be the Norma comparison. You could look up Hornady light magnum ballistics in .30-06, might be close then. But, apples and apples, the 7 wins the exterior ballistics war with the .30-06 and I mean, both rifles kick about the same, both rifles are heavy long action guns. There's really no reason for me to get a rifle in .30-06 when I can get the same rifle in 7mm magnum and if I needed even more power, the .300 or the .338.

The .30-06 gets the job done, though, is a military caliber (or was) which gave it huge popularity that may never wane, is relatively light on the shoulder compared to larger .30 caliber magnums, is really all you need. But, you'll note that of all the belted magnums, the 7mm Rem Mag is the most popular, I think because of great exterior ballistics and lighter recoil. I'm really surprised that the .264 Winchester Magnum died, talkin' even BETTER BCs, if lighter bullet weights. But, it never caught the fire the 7mm did.

I'd like to see numbers on caliber distribution. I'd suspect that .30-06 beats up on ALL belted magnums east of the great plains and I'd suspect the 7mm Mag to probably be more popular west or at last a LOT closer in sales. In the woods, there's really no need for a gun the size of the .30-06, frankly. Where my place is, a .30-30 will do the job just fine and my .308 is overkill. I don't NEARLY put as much stock in ballistics tables as I used to. I used to really be into the nit picky comparisons. But, practicality in the field, it don't make a difference most times. I do like a little more reach out in the Rockies, though.

[MCgunner]

i smell a "sectional density" challenge comin on..... LOL. I think the original question has been hijacked

HA, good call! ROFLMAO! And, with SD considered, according to the Speer Number 11 manual, the 160 7mm SD is .284. The SD of a 180 grain .30 caliber is just .270. So, what that means in terms of penetration is that the 160 grain 7mm will do the work of a 180 grain .30. Not real high in BC, but the 160 grain Nosler Partition shoots under 1 MOA in my Savage 110 7 Rem Mag.

</hijack>

The .30-06 will kill anything you wanna kill to as far as you should be shooting it, at least in the lower 48. Good choice.:neener::banghead::D

[islandphish]

.308 or nato equiv is for battle rifles.

All purpose hunter...06.

[Bartkowski]

My M7 weighs 2 and a half pounds less than my long action Savage and after a day hiking up and down mountains, it adds up.

Now I didn't read everything you wrote MCgunner, as there is so much to read, but since I am a fan of the 30-06, I just want to defend it a little as far as weight is concerned.

A model 7 in .308 weighs 6.5lbs and a Model 700 CDL in 30-06 weighs 7.5lbs, that one pound does not make a big difference to me, and although a 20" barrel is more handy in a blind or a stand, and I guess thick brush, the 24" helps quite a bit when it comes to long shots.

[MCgunner]

Personal choice, really. I can shoot about as far as I need to be shooting with the .308, though. I have hit coyote to over 350 yards with it and I'm confident in the gun, which is more important than anything else, really.

You'll probably notice in debates like this, I like being the devils advocate and sticking up for the unpopular opinion. In this case, I just happened to own the unpopular opinion. :D I mean, hell, what's a debate if everyone is agreeing???? Probably does the guy asking the original question more good to hear different sides of the argument, anyway, right?

[dust_101]

Sorry MCgunner, but hearing the other side of the argument is just making my blood pressure rise ;)

Seriously it does help, and I do have things in the works to start reloading next year so I figure I can play with the '06 and make some loads for each animal I plan to hunt.

As for the .308, I may use that for my next AR build :D

[jjduller1946]

I was amazed at the unified response, is the .308 just that much better? Personally I feel the 06 is a fine time-proven cartridge, and is something I can setup for varmints, deer, bear, and even elk/moose with the proper bullet weights and powder.

Dust 101,


I find these discussions full of old war stories (better than old wives tales I guess) but with tidbits of commons sense sprinkled in.

The 30-06 generates 100 fps more muzzle velocity with exactly the same 165 grain bullet compared with 308. So the 30-06 generates a slightly flater tragector and a little more fp lbs of energy. See the pic here of the two rounds showing Muzzle Velocity.

If you check the choices of ammo in the Federal Balistics tool http://www.federalpremium.com/default.asp?br=1 you find 20 choices from 125 to 220 gr bullets. The same tool shows 15 308 rounds ranging from 150-180 grain bullets.

Of course the 308 is a little shorter resulting in a shorter through for a bolt action rifle.

Both of these rounds were developed for the US Military. The 308 Nato round has the advantage in machine guns as the shorter round is less likely to jam in your belt-fed machine gun.

I had a 270 in Montana years ago and failed to pack my recently reloaded ammo for the trip. While my buddies were blasting away at elk I was driving down the highway stoppping at homes asking to buy a box of ammo. Of course they had 30-06 and 308 and 30-30. I did not find 270 ammo until I got to Seely Lake. They had one old dog-eared box of 130 gr ammo. I little light for elk but I was glad as hell to be headed back to the Mountain. Sometimes it is a good thing to be shooting a reliable and fairly common round.

You will not be dissappointed in the 30-06!

[Smokey Joe]

The great Col. Townsend Whelen said it best: "The .30-'06 is never a mistake."

[MCgunner]

The main advantage the .30-06 has, as mentioned, is it will handle bullet weights over 180 grains and the .308 won't. Don't bother me, but it's an advantage. Some folks like those 200+ grain loads, especially on heavy stuff like Moose. I've never even seen a moose outside the zoo in Texas and only in a national park out of state. LOL!

I do hope to hunt elk someday and the one in that thread about not having a truck that's strapped to the top of a compact car, well, when you're used to shootin' 100 lb bucks, that's rather impressive looking!...:what: Someday I WILL get an elk hunt, though, someday. I hope I'm still young enough to spot and stalk when I do get the money and the chance, though. :banghead: I feel that I already have the tools, just need to make the money (first things first), then book the hunt.

[chemist308]

My friend owns a 30-06; I own a 308. We went to the range a while ago. He had about a box and a half of ammo ($30 worth). Because of the ammo prices, he shoots it so infrequently that he got magnum eye (bloody eye from leaning too close to the scope). I brought a $40 battle pack (200 rounds of mil surplus). Needless to say, he spent more and was done shooting well before I was. And if you don't practice with it, you won't effectively hunt with it...

So, if you reload go ahead and get the 30-06. It's a solid choice. But if you don't reload, give serious thought to the 308. It's just as capable as an 06, and even with the holy war going on over oil...it can be shot for cheaper.