[22luvr]

A couple of days ago, I went into one of the better-stocked pawn shops to look at the handguns. Things were going pretty well when I asked to look at a CZ 75BD (drool). The guy behind the counter casually wondered "Is this a 10 round or 15 round mag?" Without further adoo, he grabs a box of 9mm ammo and proceeds to start stuffing the mag with live ammo to check mag capacity. At that point I politely said "thanks for showing me," and I made a beeline for the exit.

Am I just overly-cautious or was that one of the cardinal rules of gun safety that was just trampled on? To me, a gun, mag, and LIVE ammo all on the counter in close proximity to each other is a tragedy-in-the-making.

What do you think? Whew, it spooked me out! :what:

[Baba Louie]

Perhaps a little overly cautious methinks. But better safe than sorry. I'm sure that a loaded magazine alone, unto itself presents no threat... I'd also bet dollars to donuts that said employee would not then stuff said loaded magazine into the CZ... probably a really big faux-pas.

I think I would have told the employee that his actions made me nervous (if in fact they did... in my case, probably not, but I don't know the store or the attitude of the employees... you were there, not moi)

I'd still think about the CZ cause they're pretty fine firearms with either the 10 or 15 or both. More is good, less still shoots.

Adios

[Mal H]

Perhaps you were a little overly cautious, but on the other hand, you should be when live ammo and a pistol come in contact in a place where they shouldn't. Similar scenarios to the one you described are exactly how live ammo ends up in "unloaded" guns and someone or something gets shot at a later date followed by the inevitable, "but it wasn't loaded!!!"

I think I would have stayed around if only to be sure the mag was never placed in the pistol and to be sure it was then unloaded and the ammo returned to the box. Besides you may have gotten a good deal on a desirable pistol.

[blue86buick]

To me, a gun, mag, and LIVE ammo all on the counter in close proximity to each other is a tragedy-in-the-making.
It's not quite the same, but I was at my local fav store this weekend, and they had a pair of 1911's sitting on the counter on a OD green canvas bag, with mags inserted (empty), and a decent pile of .45 ACP there too. Now mind you, this is a smallish store, on a slow day, and this was within slapping distance of the cash register...but it would have been easy to, while looking at a gun, drop a round in the chamber and be ready to shoot. I thought it strange, but it didn't bother me.

I agree with the others...as long as he's merely filling the mag, and then UN-fills it, it's not a problem. It's not as if someone will grab the mag and gun from his hands, and try to rob the place.

[WonderNine]

Jeez .22luvr, maybe guns ain't your thing.

[treeprof]

Maybe overly cautious, but when someone you don't know starts loading up mags outside a range setting, who knows. He should've been able to easily tell by looking at the mag in any event, as the castrated ones are easily discerned by the base plate and/or extreme mag body cuts.

[Shake]

I certainly wouldn't think it would be cause to leave the store (assuming he was capable and knowledgeable about gun handling safety). If he had done anything previously to lead you to believe that he had a lack of knowledge or experience with firearms, then I'd get out.

In my opinion the biggest issue would be if I were the store manager/owner. Except in extraordinary circumstances I would NOT allow any detachable magazine or firearm that was for retail sale to be loaded with live ammunition at any time. I've seen too many careless gun handlers both behind the counter and in front of it to trust that a bad situation wouldn't arise.

Shake

[10-Ring]

Maybe a little overly cautious, but you're better off safe than sorry, right? Especially after seeing & hearing so many stories about idiot sales people ;)

[22luvr]

Yes, guns ARE my thing; However, gettin' DEAD from some else's carelessness AIN'T my thing. :fire:

[New_comer]

I wouldn't mind that.


In a way, I'd feel the clerk is doing me a favor by showing me, rather than relying on his words.


But, to each his own... ;)

[Dave R]

I would've been fine as long as the mag never came in contact with the Pistol. But that's just me.

Besides, I would WANT to know if that mag was a standard capacity or not.

[Standing Wolf]

To me, a gun, mag, and LIVE ammo all on the counter in close proximity to each other is a tragedy-in-the-making.

Considering I never leave the house without packing a loaded gun, I fail to see what the problem might be.

[seeker_two]

Perhaps a little overly cautious methinks. But better safe than sorry.

Paranoid people live longer...I know...:D

[WonderNine]

Yes, guns ARE my thing; However, gettin' DEAD from some else's carelessness AIN'T my thing.

Yes, I'm perfectly ok with that scenario. Doesn't bother me in the least. Skittish folks like you are what bothers me. If I had been the guy behind the counter I would have laughed my ??? off when you walked out the store. You are aware that you have to insert the loaded magazine into the gun and then chamber a round and then pull the trigger right? If the mag has no markings then I see no other way to find out with certainty how many rounds it holds unless I load it.

Like I said, maybe guns aren't your thing. You could take up fly fishing or something....

[MMcCall]

I guess the anti's propaganda is true.. it's the mags themselves that ARE dangerous! ;)

[Geech]

Are you itching for a fight, WonderNine? Whether or not what he did was necessary, you're being very confrontational about it. I don't really think that's appropriate; it's possible to disagree without being a jerk. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how it's coming off.

[c_yeager]

Well on the other hand i doubt that many gunstore owners would be happy with ME loading a weapon on their counter. Havent you guys ever seen Terminator? It would probably strike a bad chord with me if i was in 22's position. But, then again i probably would just let it slide.

And wondernine is reminding me of why i dont hang out with the "gunshop commandos" any more.

[Ian11]

Like 22luvr, when live ammo and guns are in relative close proximity "red flags" do go up in my brain. But I do think it was an overreaction. The guy behind the counter didn't violate any safety rules. That's no reason to crucify 22luvr for it though. :rolleyes:

About 8 years ago I walked into a shop and asked how well Hydrashocks would feed in my Colt Gov't Model. The guy loads up a mag with Hydrashocks, chambers a round and proceeds to cycle the entire mag with the slide. He didn't violate any "rules", didn't sweep me with the muzzle, kept his finger off the trigger, pointed at a "safe" direction. But it is kinda intimidating when you see someone else do it in front of you.

Live ammo should not be "played with" at gunstores for demonstration purposes period. High probability of accidents esp. if there are lots of customers and confusion. Only snap caps should be allowed. It shoud be policy at every gunstore.

[chaim]

Hmm, maybe a little overcautious but we don't know all the details (what do you know about this guy, is he a bit reckless, also what kind of "vibes" did he put out).

I was at a gunstore once where the owner unholstered a loaded gun without my getting too anxious. Of course he was removing his own gun, removing the mag, and removing the round from the chamber, so that he could show me his personal gun (in MD most gun dealers are among the few individuals who can get CCWs). It helps that I practically live in this store and get along great with the owner (I doubt he would have disarmed for a stranger, especially to show off a gun as a great gun to consider buying when he doesn't even stock the model, at least not currently). Oh, I am not sure which model it is but it is a .45acp SIG (he is one of those guys who doesn't feel completely comfortable w/ anything smaller than .45 in autos, though for HD he likes .357mag revolvers).

[caz223]

I'd certainly step up my situational awareness to the next level, and not go white or yellow until the ammo was out of the mag, and the gun verified clear.
At that point, discussion can resume.
Safe is good.
But remember, if you carry IWB, you have a loaded gun pointed at your jewels.
Apples/oranges, I know.

[22luvr]

The guy behind the counter just sorta took it upon himself to see how many rounds the mag held; I never asked.

Interesting and varied responses. I'm not concerned about what I'd do; I am concerned about what the other guy is about to do, not knowing him.

And Wondernine: You really know how to win friends and influence people.
I've read some of your other posts and I'd have a hard time respecting your opinion even if you were right, simply because of your rather prickly and heavy-handed responses. Well, at least you won't have to worry about me and my "skittishness," since I'm in Georgia and your up in the Dakotas with your buddy Tom Daschle. You deserve each other.

Take a lesson in diplomacy and tact, it will do wonders for your image.

[caz223]

He was just trying to sell you on the gun "See, it even comes with a hi-cap".
CZs came with hi-caps for quite a while, and there are still a few in the system with a hi-cap, and a 10 rounder.
Too bad he didn't have any kind of familiarity with CZs, or he would have been able to identify the mag on sight.
Oh, well.
There are many different types of included mags.
The all-steel hi-caps with the steel base, the 10 round 3/4 length steel extended plastic base- no cuts, and the flakiest one, the 3/4 length steel extended plastic base with anti-tamper cuts.
The 'cut' mags are prone to break and leave you ammo-less when you really need it.
I'd consider hi-caps a necessity for a CZ75. Factory hi-caps are the best.
They are easier to load, and with your replacement wolff higher power springs, more reliable than 10 rounders.
I don't even use the plastic ones at the range anymore, the hi-caps are much easier to load.

[litework]

I don't think the guy behind the counter did anything wrong, and I wouldn't be worried about a loaded magazine until it is inserted into the firearm. Nothing against you, but I can also see wondernine's frustration. I've been around firearms my entire life. There is nothing wrong with handling firearms in a safe manner, despite what the media and antis train us to believe. I think sometimes we concern ourselves with safety to the point we don't actually enjoy firearms. You must follow the basic rules of firearm safety. If we concern ourselves with these tangents, we may overlook the most important aspects of safety. I have loaded magazines and cleaned my firearms in front of people. I carry a loaded weapon with me almost everywhere. I would hate to think that I'm offending fellow gun enthusiasts by doing so. I've never had anyone make a beeline for the door yet.

Of course, this could be just a cultural difference. We all carry our firearms loaded, here, in rural Virginia. Most gun salespersons carry a loaded piece overtly on their hip. I'm sure it's possible that loaded firearms may be weird in Atlanta, Ga. I still do not view this as violating a cardinal rule. The rule is "store" your ammo and gun in separate (locked)areas.

[notbubba]

"Am I just overly-cautious"

YES!

Way over cautious.
How do you react at a gun range?

[jif]

posted by chaim

I was at a gunstore once where the owner unholstered a loaded gun without my getting too anxious. Of course he was removing his own gun, removing the mag, and removing the round from the chamber, so that he could show me his personal gun ... I am not sure which model it is but it is a .45acp SIG.

That was a close one, chaim! Something similar happened to me (at an outdoor range though), and I ended up a SIGaholic! You almost became another unknowing convert... ;)

[Lone_Gunman]

22 luvr, I think you over-reacted, but if you didnt feel comfortable with what was going on, then I can understand.

Don't worry about Wondernine. He has some rather unusual views about a few things. I got into a discussion with him in another thread where he pretty much said the temperature in the Dakotas and Florida is about the same. Now me, I always thought there was more snow in Fargo, than say Orlando, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

He also likes the COP 357 magnum derringer.

[forquidder]

I'm always amused (although I guess by now I shouldn't be) when someone explains a scenario, asks others "what do you think, did I do the right thing?" and then becomes offended when someone says he didn't do the right thing.
Sounds to me like the clerk was an acommodating salesman just trying to sell you a quality pistola.

[22luvr]

No, I don't object to criticism; and yes, I'll admit that I probably over-reacted. My only objection is to Wondernine's abrasive and insulting answers.

I've learned from your replies; thanks for responding. That's why I frequent these forums - to grow in my knowledge of the shooting arts.

Best wishes............................ :D

[thorazine]

"Am I just overly-cautious"

YES!

Way over cautious.
How do you react at a gun range?

My thoughts exactly.

Those loaded magazines are evil! :neener:

[22luvr]

I'm 57 years old and have shot anything and everything. Never had a problem at the gun range.

I've been shooting for 50 years.

I'm a Vietnam Vet (Danang '66)

My only mistake was starting this *!!*%$#@ thread in the first place!

Good grief! Never again!

[DDGator]

I had exactly the same thing happen to me. I asked whether the CZ-75 (that I now own) had a 15 round mag. The guy behind the counter was not sure. He pulled out a box of ammo, and while I handled the gun, he loaded the mag on a table behind the counter (yep--15 rounds), unloaded it, and gave me the empty mag back.

I had no problem with it at all. He never gave me the loaded mag--so I didnt see any problems on his part.

[themic]

22luvr

here's my thought:

yes, to us it sounds like an overreaction. but always always ALWAYS trust your instincts. one should always work to make them better, yes, but trust them always. if you felt you should leave immediately, and maybe it was unnecessary, then that's opk, because trusting your instincts is the right thing to do.