[jlbraun]

2008 is going to be an electoral fight. Support candidates with $$$ that have a good view of the 2nd Amendment instead of buying another AR because of "the upcoming ban". Your money is spent much better that way.

If people instead contributed the cash they spent on their 3rd AR because of "the upcoming ban" to pro-2A causes instead, we'd be able to go buy an M240 for $2400 and have national Vermont carry by now.

Please. Instead of plunking down $1400 on a new gun, think about the future and consider contributing to a pro-2A cause instead for one gun's worth a year. Your children will thank you.

If you already do this, you have my thanks.

[bass806]

duplicate post

[bass806]

Dumb??? There are other ways to contribute to campaigns, causes, and candidates besides monetary donations; i.e. volunteering. My kids will still thank me---- thank me for all the firearms I will pass down to them.

[Loanshark]

You'll be able to pass those firearms to your kids if our government doesn't go the way Australia's did.

[jlbraun]

I reiterate my point. If you are buying new guns but not giving significant amounts of money to RKBA orgs, you are dead weight.

[Gord]

I don't see a point in giving my money to RKBA orgs who don't seem to be effective. GOA is good at chest-thumping, not so good at actually getting things done. I've been disenfranchised with the NRA for years.

I'm sure as hell not giving money to Giuliani.

Planning to make a donation to Ron Paul's campaign.

What else is there?

At least buying guns gives me something to actually show for my money. I could donate $1000 to the NRA and they'd just use it to print up solicitations for money from other people, or to pay for one of their windbags to "compromise" on my rights. GOA would probably use it to buy more Wild Turkey, and the GOP gets no love from me whatsoever.

[halvey]

At least buying guns gives me something to actually show for my money. And after we get to be like the UK and Australia, you won't even have your guns.

[jlbraun]

How about the SAF? They actually have some legal successes. And there are some pro-RKBA presidential candidates out there.

If you bought $5000 of guns, ammo, and accessories this year but you gave a measly $100 to RKBA orgs, your priorities are WAY misplaced!

[lanternlad1]

If you wish to give your money to organizations, fine. But don't post on this board complaining about other people's priorities. Last I heard, this was still America, and people can do what they want. Telling people they are wrong for what they do will not win you any friends for your cause. I'll spend my money on what I please, you mind your business.

If there were no lobbies, the government would work better. I say restrict them ALL.

[K3]

If there were no lobbies, the government would work better. I say restrict them ALL.

Doubtful. Corruption, graft, and incompetence would merely take new forms. Government is by its nature inefficient and prone to excess.

[jlbraun]

Last I heard, this was still America, and people can do what they want.

Yup. Including saying "if you're compulsively buying AR lowers because of some 'future ban' instead of giving that money to RKBA orgs, you're dead weight to the RKBA cause, and shouldn't complain when your right to arms is restricted."

:neener:

[TexasRifleman]

Last I heard, this was still America, and people can do what they want. Telling people they are wrong for what they do will not win you any friends for your cause.

This is the Activism forum, used for folks to issue a "call to action" for whatever they believe will help. The OP has given his opinion, you are free to ignore it.

What is your call to action?

As to the topic, I agree we should be contributing, and I do. I'm not going to stop buying guns but I have increased the percentage going to politics.

It's a necessary evil these days.

[K3]

Yup. Including saying "if you're compulsively buying AR lowers instead of giving that money to RKBA orgs, you're dead weight to the RKBA cause."

It occurs to me that buying lowers is keeping arms. So, the 'K' is satisfied. :D

In general:

Why can't folks do BOTH? It is entirely possible for the NRA, SAF, and GOA to be flooded with contributions yet be ineffective due to the same old DC crew managing to get laws passed that hurt RKBA. Let's face it, most Americans are lazy and prone to knee-jerking when tragedies arise. It won't take too many more mass shootings for the flock to call for Congress to 'do something'. At that point it won't matter how full the NRA's coffers are.

I say stock up on your canned goods if you can AND give what funds you can to Pro-RKBA groups. Best to cover all bases methinks.

[Ed Ames]

I have long maintained a 1:1 ratio policy. For each dollar spent on guns, another dollar goes to a civil liberties group. NRA, GOA, JPFO, CRPA, EFF, ACLU, and so on are all out there fighting for you whether you think they are effective or not.

I think a balance is important. If you secure your rights in congress but lose all ability to exercise them because your local shooting ranges and gun stores have all closed you still lose.

What I'm not sure about any more is where the correct balance lies. Look at it this way... $200 to the NRA is 1:6000th of an amicus brief. $200 to your local gun store is probably $20 to keep the shop open, plus another $50 to everyone else (manufacturer, distributor, and so on). $200 to organize your own private "take a non-shooter shooting" day might very well convert two or three people from scared-anti to neutral or pro-gun.

Something to think about....

[Zundfolge]

We need to be doing both.

AND every time you buy a new gun, write a letter to the manufacturer reminding them that if THEY don't join us in the fight, you won't be able to continue supporting them.

[K3]

AND every time you buy a new gun, write a letter to the manufacturer reminding them that if THEY don't join us in the fight, you won't be able to continue supporting them.

I like that.

What's the numbers on correspondence to politicians? 1 letter = 100 phone calls and 1 phone call = 100 emails? Something like that. Anyhow, if it works on politicians, it certainly can have an effect on businesses.

[yesit'sloaded]

It is entirely possible for the NRA, SAF, and GOA to be flooded with contributions yet be ineffective due to the same old DC crew managing to get laws passed that hurt RKBA. That is the only reason I haven't joined the NRA yet. MR. La Pierre is not looking good for us and I'm not going to give any organization that claims to support gun rights with him in a leadership position money. If Ted Nugent, Ron Paul, or even Huckabee was in a higher position I would join. GOA seems to have their hearts in the right place, but cry wolf too much. So far SCCC and SAF are the only ones I am behind more than 70% of the time. I would love to see Ronnie Barrett in a leadership role in the NRA.

[cyclist]

There are people who do nothing more than donate money, then sit back while someone else does all the work. Support comes in many forms, and not all of us "dead weights" are functionally as dead as some money-contrubutors are.

So, my call to action is to can the "dead weight" comments as that does nothing but divide the community as has been seen in this thread. Instead offer options of: 1) donate what you can afford to donate, 2) contact candidates, 3) talk to people and try to make them aware, and so forth.

I'm insulted by people who say if I don't spend a certain amount of money then I'm dead weight. So please can the insults, stop the derision, and work for a common goal.

Have a nice day, regardless of how much money you have available to donate.

[jlbraun]

cyclist,

My point was that if people are buying AR lowers "because of the upcoming ban" instead of taking that money and contributing it to a 2A cause, they're dead weight. I said nothing about a "you must donate a certain amount of money".

[lanternlad1]

"If there were no lobbies, the government would work better. I say restrict them ALL.

Doubtful. Corruption, graft, and incompetence would merely take new forms. Government is by its nature inefficient and prone to excess."


Sad, but unfortunately, very true. Keep the government poor and remain free.


"This is the Activism forum, used for folks to issue a "call to action" for whatever they believe will help. The OP has given his opinion, you are free to ignore it."

I am also free to rebuff his opinon. You miss the point.

It is illogical to issue a call to action by insulting those you would incite. Telling people that they are dead weight if they don't do as you do will not work. Instead, show them what you think does not work, and point out a way that does. Don't make it personal, as that is counter-productive. Sheeple follow such a leader, free thinkers do not.


I am all for hitting the gun makers in the pocket book, but when the govt. buys more guns in a day than you or I will buy in a lifetime, a manufacturer would be out of business if they forgo gov't contracts based on a political decision. More's the praise for folks like Barrett.

I also lament the fact the we have to pay a premium to get good service from those supposed to be in our employ. Unfortunately, that is how things seem to be working. If you want less corrupt politicians, you have to pay more for them. Seems to me that Rome had the same conundrum just before it fell.

I would suggest that we continue to spend our money on sustainable goods (guns) and less on lobbyists. I would suggest that we as a nation need to find a way to send many more clear signals to Washington to show the way we want things to be.

[damien]

You just reminded me that I need to pick up a half dozen stripped lowers this week. Thank you.

[ZeSpectre]

AND every time you buy a new gun, write a letter to the manufacturer reminding them that if THEY don't join us in the fight, you won't be able to continue supporting them.

Wow... that is so damn simple, why didn't I think of that myself???
Zundfolge, a HUGE thumbs up for something I'm going to start doing right away!

[Kentucky]

I have my NRA and GOA memberships. I have contributed to Ron Paul's campaign twice and intend to do so again. But on a more local level I am also a member of the RWVA, a grassroots group that is working to introduce new shooters and get them involved in defending Liberty.

I can certainly understand anyone who is disgusted with the NRA. I am too. I can also understand the folks who think the GOA is ineffective, though I personally disagree. But even if you dont care for any of these national groups, there are other smaller organizations that are fighting for our rights and liberties. I would STRONGLY encourage you to check them out.

[Sassy357]

Well, if you're getting discouraged with the NRA, etc., then donate to Concealed Campus.org. This group, because of unfortunate recent tragedies has the potential to be very effective. There's energy and momentum behind them. The useless media loves anything controversial that happens on college campuses and who better than the college kids to beat a path to Congress or rally support for candidates!

[chemist308]

Donate to Ron Paul campaign fund...

[wideym]

Every time you buy a new gun or ammo YOU ARE SUPPORTING RKBA. Gun and ammo manufacurers have lobbyist who work not only for them but you also. Manufacurers don't just make products till they are outlawed, they fight to keep their bussiness alive and make a profit. Its good to donate time and money to RKBA organizations, but don't think buying guns you expect to be banned wrong. If gun manufacurers see a product selling very well I dout they will stand idly by to see them banned.

[NeoSpud]

Yup. Including saying "if you're compulsively buying AR lowers because of some 'future ban' instead of giving that money to RKBA orgs, you're dead weight to the RKBA cause, and shouldn't complain when your right to arms is restricted."

Interesting!

This is pretty much a RKBA version of Peter Singer's arguments for the need for everyone to donate to charity, in his 1971 paper, "Famine, Affluence, and Morality."

For example, take this, one of Singer's passages:
"...if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it"

To do any less would be morally indefensible.

The only obvious difference is that the donation to charity is retroactive, while donating to a campaign would be preventative. The principle of the matter still applies.


Every time you buy a new gun or ammo YOU ARE SUPPORTING RKBA. Gun and ammo manufacurers have lobbyist who work not only for them but you also. Manufacurers don't just make products till they are outlawed, they fight to keep their bussiness alive and make a profit. Its good to donate time and money to RKBA organizations, but don't think buying guns you expect to be banned wrong. If gun manufacurers see a product selling very well I dout they will stand idly by to see them banned.

In the Singer paper, he considers UNICEF / reputable charitable organizations to be the most efficacious method for donating. Your reply makes me wonder: how could we actually determine which route would have the most "bang for the buck?" the NRA/GOA or similar organizations? Political candidates?

I agree that contributing is necessary and the morally correct thing to do, but I would like others' opinions on how this goal is most efficiently accomplished.

[I LIKE IT!]

Talk is cheap, leadership by example my friend. Frankly I'm skeptical your swallowing your own medicine, and even if you are I'm doing what ever the hell I want with my $$$. I don't care if I'm "dead weight", good on you if are but just call me skeptical.

[Hawk]

I'm another that has long viewed buying new guns as at least related to activism and not simply from a standpoint of pumping sales or import numbers.

Our rate of lawful firearms ownership dwarfs that in effect at the time of the UK's handgun surrender and compensation scheme. The more our numbers grow the less likely anything similar will happen. Every new sale / NICS ping / CHL issuance is one more reason an astute politician won't insert his necktie into the meat grinder.

The numbers aren't there yet and may never be if we don't get the youth involved but buying new if one can't fund both doesn't strike me as being dead weight.

I suppose a case might be made that those that both refrain from contributions and obsess over "off paper" purchases might be "dead weight" but their numbers are, I believe, small and most use "off paper" legal purchases as an adjunct anyway.

I've seen a very few opine that "off paper" purchases are good as no one knows where they are. Perhaps this is true but I'd also submit its potential for irony exceeds that of "Catch 22": the very act of remaining invisible increases the liklihood that the invisibility will be needed.

If the VPC is actively trying to reduce our apparent numbers (PDF (http://www.vpc.org/studies/gunownership.pdf)), I'll take it as an article of faith that it behooves us to do the opposite. I'll ask my dealer to phone in my 4473s even though he doesn't have to due to the CHL.

[jlbraun]

What is your call to action?

Indeed. The rest of THR is all "What gun should I buy"? Instead, I'm saying, "Put off buying the guns because you think they're going to be banned. Contribute instead!"

Hawk gets it:
I suppose a case might be made that those that both refrain from contributions and obsess over "off paper" purchases might be "dead weight" but their numbers are, I believe, small and most use "off paper" legal purchases as an adjunct anyway.

I'm of the opinion that people buying off-paper firearms "because of the coming ban" are simply using the election year to justify their compulsive spending habits. They just want a new gun and could care less about RKBA.

[Zundfolge]

They just want a new gun and could care less about RKBA.
I think thats a bit of an oversimplification.

There are plenty of staunchly pro RKBA folk that honestly don't believe that giving money to pro gun politicians, the NRA, the GOA or any other group of people that support RKBA is going to do a darned thing.

I do see your point, and that is that we can't just sit by passively and "let" the antis run roughshod over us ... but I'm not 100% convinced that political action will do anything anymore.


So, IF you DON'T already own an EBR or two, I'd rather see you buy one just in case than send that money to a politician.

Now if you DO already have an EBR or two, than please reconsider adding another and instead donate to the cause.



On a side note, As for donating to Ron Paul ... I fail to see how giving money to an honorable, decent, honest man that hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of being president is in any way helping the cause as much as giving Bushmaster or Rock River Arms or one of the other EBR manufacturers more money to lobby with would.

[lanternlad1]

JLBraun,

Just because we disagree with you doesn't mean we don't "get it".

[Big45]

jlbraun,

I see what you are saying but the bottom line, literally, is that in our current form of society, money talks and money makes the world go around. Guns and ammo are BIG business and no antigun politician or harebrained legislation is going to seriously affect it until it isn't big business. It's the same reason tobacco is here to stay, same reason alcohol is here to stay, same reason drugs are here to stay, same reason porno is here to stay, same reason mcdonalds is here to stay, etc. etc. etc. As long as people can get filthy rich at it, whatever it may be, it won't go away.

So I disagree and encourage everyone to go out and buy, buy, buy.

[tinygnat219]

I do both. However, I have limited financial resources. I send what I can to the NRA (mostly through EPL membership), while donating Time to the cause and writing letters, phone calls, etc. working with the VCDL.

[Gunnerpalace]

Quote "if you're compulsively buying AR lowers because of some 'future ban' instead of giving that money to RKBA orgs, you're dead weight to the RKBA cause, and shouldn't complain when your right to arms is restricted."


Guess I need to change my spending habits, I will get FAL lowers instead, The reason I am "dead weight" is because I cant find a group to give to, the NRA's record on EBR's, and machine guns is less than stellar, GOA seem to be alarmists but I plan to join them soon. It is my choice how much I donate and I prefer to get firearms instead and add to the NCIS tally which like the others said helps us, more guns sold less the politicians will want to get rid of them (at least the politicians who know they get voted in). If anyone should get money on these points it should be Cato as they are handling Heller (If Iam wrong correct and put in right organization).

[elkhuntingfool]

While we are on topic - what is the ACLU's stance on the 2nd ammendment? I'm not particularly a fan of the ACLU for various, personal reasons.

Thanks!

[Fburgtx]

For all you guy's who can't stand giving money to the NRA/GOA/etc., how about this suggestion. For every message (or at least every 5 messages) you post on a pro-gun/preaching-to-the-choir internet forum, you should send at least one message/ make a phone call/write a letter to a politician/newspaper/etc. Is that asking too much?????

[The-Fly]

Well I did my part this weekend. I volunteer at the gun shows, got 4 people signed up for the NRA, 3 for CSSA, including a life member :)

[Wayne G.]

WOOHOO!!! Made it in before the LOCK! :p

jlbraun wrote:
Spending $$$ on guns now is dumb. You should be contributing to pro-2A politicians
I could say, spending money on politicians that have no chance of winning is dumb. You should be spending your money on AR lowers, or..oh, wait, nevermind--where you spend your money is YOUR business!

Your money is spent much better that way.Yeah, at least you'd have something to show for it like an AR!

If you bought $5000 of guns, ammo, and accessories this year but you gave a measly $100 to RKBA orgs, your priorities are WAY misplaced!
:rolleyes:--Seriously? Let's look in the mirror before questioning misplaced priorities. You've got your priorities on display in your SIGNATURE!

Yes, this is America and you have a right to express your OPINION as I do mine. Neither of us has the right to IMPOSE that opinion on the other.

[jlbraun]

You've got your priorities on display in your SIGNATURE!

So what? THR is about RKBA and RKBA alone. The reason I have my sig is to show that even some of "teh evul libruls" like me support RKBA.

I think that people should be able to buy M240s or M2HBs at a reasonable cost new in box under the NFA. I think the NFA tax stamp should go away. I think that the NFA should not apply to any weapon currently standard individual issue of the US Military - meaning that you should be able to buy an M16/M4 or M249 SAW or LAW or grenade with just the NICS check. I think that the GCA should go away. I think that the import ban should go away. I think the "sporting purposes" language should go away.

And you need people like me to fight gun control, you can't go it alone. Even though you disagree with my politics, you still need me as far as RKBA is concerned.

And that's the problem. Some people like you think that you should disown liberals like me from RKBA efforts because of my (to you) misplaced "priorities". Do this, and you will LOSE.

I posted my opinion. People who go out compulsively buying their ninth AR lower because of "the upcoming ban" (I call this the "shortsighted I-got-mine mentality") instead of taking some of that same money and contributing to RKBA organizations (or taking antis shooting) are dead weight being dragged by those that are doing work and contributing to protect and expand RKBA.

[Walkalong]

You have a point indeed and I do not do enough of the latter. I have definitely bought my share of guns/ammo this last year, but not enough contributing. Thanks for making me feel guilty about it. Maybe that is what I need to get off my duff and write a check. :)

[P95loser]

Maybe we are out there buying our 4th AR for when your RKBA fight fails and they try to come and take our guns away.

The 2nd ammendment states:
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

We have already breached the line of what our founding fathers defined as a "free state" so far WE don't even know what a "free state" should be. But I do know that the day they try and make me turn in my guns is the day I pack my bags and find a spot on God's green earth where I can be left alone.

[Walkalong]

If the SHTF our guns and ammo will come in handy. If the Government come for our guns, we are SOL. :scrutiny:

Activism is the only way to keep our guns away from the Government.

[Wayne G.]

And you need people like me to fight gun control, you can't go it alone. Even though you disagree with my politics, you still need me as far as RKBA is concerned.

You're absolutely right and you made my point. We see things differently! You waste your money on Ron Paul or whatever cause, and I'll waste my money on ARs. Let's just not go name-calling and telling each other how they ought to live if we disagree.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! ;)

By the way, GREAT idea on the AR lower. I don't have a complete rifle in the budget right now but could swing a lower or two for after the Billary ban!

[jlbraun]

You waste your money on Ron Paul or whatever cause

Considering that Ron Paul is the least of my donations this year to the GOA, SAF, and NRA, that's completely specious.

And when "Billary" tries to push through an outright confiscatory ban on lowers, realize it's people like you that wasted money on ARs that allowed it to happen. Thanks for nothing.

[Noxx]

This makes me realize that we should start our own damn RKBA group, and just use all of our funding to buy adspace in magazines for Oleg's posters.

[Funderb]

So if they decide in the end that guns should be limited, or guns should not be owned or carried by any non-police/military/LE person, aka civillian,
I will disagree.
Who will stand beside me and fight?
Or at least just resist?

[Shadowangel]

I doubt you'll know who will fight with you until the time comes. People I've known all my life as second amendment supporters would fold in a heartbeat given government pressure. I know others that would gather up to fight.

[MiddleAgedKen]

While we are on topic - what is the ACLU's stance on the 2nd ammendment? I'm not particularly a fan of the ACLU for various, personal reasons.

As one might expect from Constitutionally illiterate collectivists, they're not keen on it. They peddle the collective rights line. Read all about it. (http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14523res20020304.html)

[JLStorm]

There is no politician that has a chance of actually winning the election that is fighting to protect our rights. Its really not about how much money you give to a RKBA org, its about how many people you sign up as members. Ron Paul and Fred Thompson are great, but if you think they are going to win you are wrong, sorry. I would LOVE for them to win, but it just isnt going to happen.

The government doesnt care how much money the NRA has, they mainly care about how many members they have and how many votes they influence, that is why the AARP is such a powerful lobby.

Buy guns, recruit others to join RKBA orgs, and try to sway the vote. The thing that hurts us the most is that we have to many RKBA orgs that cant agree on anything and we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves to mount an effective defense.

The politicians know many gun owners are single issue voters and it scares the crap out of them, if we would all band together and mount a joint attack and effective lobbying campaign I dont think it would matter who was in office, they would think much harder about pissing gun owners off.

[RevolvingCylinder]

There is no politician that has a chance of actually winning the election that is fighting to protect our rights.
And that's the self-fulfilling prophecy.

[toomanygunstoolittlemoney]

I am saddened by the anger directed against 'our own' on this thread. Many, if not all, of the opposing arguments have positive merit, yet they feel that this can only be done 'at the expense' of opposing or destroying the merit of a different view.

Complacency is a real problem in the community [though probably not on this forum]. There are many positive steps we can take.


Financially support RKBA groups, or better still volunteer
Directly Support pro-gun candidates
Demonstrate your activism with letters/phone calls/emails faxes to office holders
Demonstrate your activism with letters/phone calls/emails/faxes to media outlets
Support the industry with your purchases
Recruit new supporters by introducing them to firearms sports


No one method will win the battle. Not everyone can do them all, but simply buying firearms is nowhere near enough. 60-80 million gun owners nationally - Not one other issue has such vast percentage of support in this country. How can we possibly even be having this problem in our nation? Because gun owners sit on their complacent rears and don't get active. Yes, I can't 'tell you' what to do with your money or time. But I can challenge you to examine your own priorities. I can't speak for the member that originally posted, but I think that this was all he was attempting to do.

Now you can prioritize flaming me in response, or pick up a pen or phone and get in the fight - It is your choice.

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

is keep respect and unity with other gun owners, shooters, activists, and in general unusual and usual characters in any way related to RKBA. Don't divide too easily, there are enemies within the gates.....

st

[whited]

2008 is going to be an electoral fight. Support candidates with $$$ that have a good view of the 2nd Amendment instead of buying another AR because of "the upcoming ban". Your money is spent much better that way.

I would prefer if you did not suggest how I spend my money.

Also, I "give" enough money to the political arena as it is. It will be a dark
day when I donate money to any poitician for some tenuous feeling that I am
in some way helping to 'protect' rights which should require no such
'protection.'

[JKimball]

jlbraun,

I guess you would say two birds in the bush are better than one bird in the hand?

As an "evul librul," you may think you know better than we do how to spend our money, and you may wish you could spend it for us. But you shouldn't be knocking anybody's RKBA efforts for buying AR's. There's lots of other ways to save money or make money. You aren't helping promote the RKBA cause by restricting ownership of AR's.

[I LIKE IT!]

So when the SHTF in Jan 2009(Dems in control:scrutiny:) where are all us pro gun folks going to move and or seceed?

The Gov. revolves around money and control what makes you think both sides will quit playing politics with rights the founding fathers wrote in plain English? Keep giving them what they want. I have no faith in the Government.

[jlbraun]

I would prefer if you did not suggest how I spend my money.

Too bad. :neener: Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

you may wish you could spend it for us.

Never. But I will feel free to call you shortsighted.

You aren't helping promote the RKBA cause by restricting ownership of AR's.

I'm not "restricting ownership", ya maroon. I'm saying that "if the choice is spending money on your third AR or sending money to pro-gun candidiates, and you spend money on the third AR, that's shortsighted."

Seeing how I've motivated 2 people to get off their duffs and donate because of this thread, and offended several others who weren't going to give a dime anyway, I consider it a success.

[Scorpiusdeus]

While your message has merit, your delivery sucks.

I'll do both thank you and your opinion of me doesn't matter.

I's like to see you write a letter to the NRA and ask the executives to give up half of their Million dollar salary's in support of the cause.

[jlbraun]

I'll do both thank you

Thank you. You have my respect.

[JKimball]

jlbraun,

I'll give you credit for framing your suggestion to donate in such a way that would stir the pot, if that is what you wanted to do. Good tactic. But your reasoning behind it also happens to be shortsighted.

[Scorpiusdeus]

Not to mention that it may not work and then those people who didn't go out and buy that AR won't get a better government or an AR.

Example, CA and Microstamping. We elected a Republican Governor and we still get screwed.

They are all sell outs.

[Wayne G.]

I'm saying that "if the choice is spending money on your third AR or sending money to pro-gun candidiates, and you spend money on the third AR, that's shortsighted."

How bout a first or second AR??? :evil:

Seeing how I've motivated 2 people to get off their duffs and donate because of this thread, and offended 2 others who probably weren't going to give a dime anyway, I consider it a success.
Perhaps you've overestimated yourself and the impact of your thread. Furthermore, it's ignorant to presume knowledge about the pro-2A contributions of the "2 others" just because they aren't broadcasting it to the world as you have done here. THAT is shortsighted! :barf:

Lastly, resorting to name-calling is not taking "The High Road." :rolleyes:

[whited]

Too bad. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

You do not have the capacity to 'hurt my feelings.'

I consider it a success.

And that's where you're wrong. I would guess that you have motivated
more people to go out and buy that third AR... which is, of course, the right
thing to do, so long as you also bought a few hundred rounds at the same
time.

[rdhood]

The OP is rude and presumptive.

Far more can be done in the courts than by funding the political aspirations of *possibly* pro RKBA candidates. If, for example, SCOTUS issues a pro 2A ruling in Heller/DC, that single case will do more for the RK part of RKBA then all of the money you could possibly spend funding campaigns or the NRA (a group which initially rejected support of the Heller/DC case).

The fight will not be won in the ballot box. Certainly, we get LESS anti 2A legislation when supporting anti-anti2A candidates. The cause, though, is never advanced. How can it be? We have a right, and it gets torn down by inches. All we can do is slow the rate of decay.

The best we can do to advance the cause is to protect it, and that means the courts. Is there a group who's sole purpose is to seek and defend cases that would advance the cause of RKBA? Please don't say "the NRA". While they do good at lobbying for better legislation, they clearly miss the boat on 2nd amendment court defense. I think this is because most court cases that will have standing that COULD change 2A protection involve felonious acts by the defendent. The NRA wants to be seen supporting the law-abiding citizen and his legal use of guns. To enter into the court system on behalf of a citizen illegally using a gun is seen by them as counter-productive and counter to their goal/mission. So... they don't get involved.

Abortion, free speech, and other issues of the first amendment were won IN THE COURTS... not at the ballot box. Thus, if you are going to give your money to a politician hopeful for RKBA, give it to someone who will appoint conservative pro2A judges, and not necessarily someone who espouses anti-anti2A leanings.

p.s. The major reason for voting for GWB wasn't that he would spend us into oblivion, seek to usurp our civil liberties, prepare Iraq for future balkanization, or allow 25 million criminals to become citizens. The reason for voting for GWB was that he would appoint conservative justices to the SCOTUS, and that these justices would stand for the Constitution.

[Correia]

I'm embarrassed we mods missed this thread and didn't close it sooner. It quickly devolved into an old school L&P bash fest.

Look, I don't care what you do. Do something.

Buying guns is good too, because guns are numbers, numbers are statistics, and statistics are power.

Giving money to RKBA groups is excellent.

Personally I'm on track to donate about $8,000 worth of free CCW instruction to students, teachers, and military personel this year. But since I've spent more on guns than giving to RKBA groups, I'm not pulling my weight. :)

Just a suggestion. If you have an Activism Plan, please post it diplomatically. Getting right in people's faces right off the bat is only going to tick off other posters, cause a fight, and then nothing gets done.