Buy a .357 or a .45 - NOT a caliber war


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Chrome
October 23, 2007, 08:07 PM
Trying to decide which will be the next handgun I'm going to purchase. I'll be purchasing it within the next 6 months.

I currently have a 22/45 and a P99 in 9mm.

Later,
Chrome...

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Brian Williams
October 23, 2007, 08:14 PM
Voted, 357 in a S&W because I like Revolvers better, but both is what I have.

Ceemack
October 23, 2007, 08:18 PM
Pretty much an impossible question to answer without knowing its intended purpose.

Majic
October 23, 2007, 08:35 PM
Are you going to buy something just because the overall majority say so? Determine your own reasons for what you need. Learn what will fill those needs. Then determine whats best for you.

19-3Ben
October 23, 2007, 08:36 PM
+1. Which platform do you like better. Revolver or semi-auto? If you like revolvers better, probably .357, but you can find .45 ACP wheelguns.
If you prefer semi-auto, forget the .357.

I voted .357 because it is my songle favorite caliber in the history of ever. But that's just me.

bakert
October 23, 2007, 08:37 PM
My every day carry gun is a .45 Ruger auto, but for all around use it's hard to beat a .357 revolver. I like the K frame S&Ws but the 686 is a fine gun and probably more durable with heavy loads.

Chrome
October 23, 2007, 08:50 PM
This gun will be used for everything but carry (P99 fills that need). Home defense, range time, showing off, etc. I intend to buy both...but it's rather which should come first.

Later,
Chrome...

Bilt4Comfort
October 23, 2007, 08:54 PM
I would get the Smith...more bang for your buck.

eldon519
October 23, 2007, 09:10 PM
I'd go with the 1911. Should be a little cheaper to shoot and the 1911 is classic American.

StrikeEagle
October 23, 2007, 10:31 PM
I just have this boundless confidence in JMB, his pistol and his cartridge.

You pass a 1911 by me, and I'll take it, every time. :)

sb350hp
October 23, 2007, 10:40 PM
I say the .357. Simply cuz of the versatility. Very cheap to shoot 38s all day long and can load up some good 357 if you want to do some more serious PD or handgun hunting. I have both a 45 and 357 enjoy the heck out of both of em.

denfoote
October 23, 2007, 10:46 PM
That's what I did!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/denfoote/N-frameSmith.jpg

Smith 28-2


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/denfoote/moregrips.jpg


Springfield Loaded

RyanM
October 23, 2007, 11:45 PM
Which one would I rather have? Out of those two, I'd get neither. You should probably decide for yourself.

Gustav
October 23, 2007, 11:49 PM
Advantages of the L frame 686 .357 revolver

1 Will shoot many styles or bullet weights from snake shot to 110 125 158 and 180 JSP and JHP as well as cast bullets from wadcutters to SWC's
2 Flat trajectory with more muzzle and downrange energy with the .357 over a .45ACP
3 Simple to use and operate
4 Double action for fast firing up close with the single action trigger pull for longer range precision shooting
5 The last of the combat wheelguns the frame size was built specifically around the .357 cartridge not a .38(K) or .44/.45(N) or .32(J) frame
6 Can remain loaded for years springs will not take a set unlike magazine springs which can weaken if stored loaded for long periods of time
7 Heavy barrel lug decreases felt recoil and aids in faster shot to shot recovery time.

Disadvantages include

1 Capacity of 6 rounds, for hunting its more than enough but for multiple threats 6 rounds may not be enough
2 Slower and more awkward to reload fast especially under stress or on the move.
3 Bright flash and muzzle blast, not a good thing in low or limited light especially indoors
4 Does not lend itself well to CCW it is a bit bulky and heavy as the cylinder is pretty thick
5 Double action trigger pull is not always mastered by everyone, a smooth consistent DA trigger pull takes practice and without it you are all over the target.

1911A1 .45ACP advantages

1 7 or 8 or more rounds with aftermarket extended magazines if one likes them
2 The .45ACP is a bigger diameter bullet that does not depend on velocity to expand or do its work kinda like a quarter horse vs a Clydesdale
3 Very fast shot to shot times
4 Near perfect ergonomics ideal hand fit for small or large hands.
5 Short light crisp consistent trigger pull the same each and every shot.
6 Fast trigger reset
7 The action absorbs some of the recoil impulse
8 Very easy to customize and work on as parts easily interchange.
9 Lots of parts available from many sources has been in production since 1911
10 Flat easily concealed smooth lines its even thickness hides well with the right holster
11 Allot of history both in military and civilian use THE pistol of choice for many who have gone in harms way.
12 Less muzzle blast and flash especially with certain types of ammo
13 Field strips without tools for basic cleaning or parts replacement.

Disadvantages of the 1911A1

1 Can be expensive or difficult to find a good one and not a cheaply made clone
2 Ammunition is more or less limited to certain power levels
3 It is a thinking persons weapon and requires more training and awareness to get the most out of it
4 Magazines should have ammunition rotated so springs do not take a set
5 Depends on proper ammunition to cycle action
6 Not a long range hunting caliber its better suited to 50 yards or less IMO


These are just a few of my observations and opinions others will add or subtract their own.:neener:

Either way you can't lose, pick the one that you enjoy shooting the best try before you buy rent beg or borrow first and then get which one works for you and in the end if you can't decide get BOTH!:D

Sorry for the long post.

Allot of guys did not cut their teeth on wheel guns I hope this helps.

glockman19
October 24, 2007, 12:32 AM
Hard decision. I have both and love them both. Can't you get both?

Gustav, offers some great Pro's & Con's.

If you already have a .45 get the 686. If you already have a revolver in .357 get the .45. I'd find a way to have both. If I had to pick one of the two I'd probably get the revolver. IF price is an issue the 686 will be less expensive to feed and probably less expensive to buy.

hexidismal
October 24, 2007, 12:42 AM
IF price is an issue the 686 will be less expensive to feed and probably less expensive to buy.

I can't say I agree with you on that one glockman19. Actually I was going to mention that in addition to the .357 disadvantages listed by Gustav, I would add ammo cost to the list. I get blaser brass at $10 or $11 a box to feed my .45s. I find .357 and even .38 ammo to be considerably more expensive.

That being said, I honestly can't vote. I have 2 686s and a Springer Loaded, and they are both great guns. My favorite guns. I wont say just get both because having extremely limited funds for new guns myself, I know it just doesn't work that way for everybody. I guess I'd have to say get either one, then start saving for the other.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j110/hexidismal29/1911and686-1b2.jpg

1lostinspace
October 24, 2007, 12:44 AM
Glock 20 10mm owns them both.

GunNut
October 24, 2007, 12:53 AM
I'd probably gravitate towards the 1911. I buy revolvers all the time and end up selling them, just cause they don't do anything for me.

glockman19
October 24, 2007, 12:57 AM
hexidismal,

I don't know where you buy from but I buy a lot of my ammunition from MidwayUSA.com and show CCI Blaser Brass for:

CCI Blazer Brass Ammunition 45 ACP 230 Grain Full Metal Jacket Box of 50
Our Price: $19.49

CCI Blazer Brass Ammunition 38 Special 125 Grain Full Metal Jacket Box of 50
Our Price: $15.29

This is what I was basing my statement on.

hexidismal
October 24, 2007, 01:33 AM
Ah, well yeah, going by that you'd be right. I actually wind up buying the majority of ammo at Walmart. Cheapest place around here by far. Generally .45 is definitely cheaper for me on the local market. Also though, I tend to not buy anything loaded below .38 +P for running in my .357s. Maybe that affects the price also.

bpisler
October 24, 2007, 04:39 AM
I picked the 1911 just because i've
got 3 S&W 357's already and don't
own a 1911 at this time.

CoRoMo
October 24, 2007, 09:50 AM
SA 1911
It would have been difficult to choose had you listed a different brand of .357, but S&W is easy to vote against. I am actually a bigger fan of .357 than .45 and I prefer Ruger wheel guns.

RNB65
October 24, 2007, 10:06 AM
1911's are a dime a dozen and can be bought anytime, anywhere. With their pitiful little 7rnd magazines, even the anti's aren't particularly concerned about them. ;)

But if you can find a good condition pre-lock 686 or Python, I'd definitely go 357Mag. And don't overlook the GP100. I've got a 6" stainless GP100 and it's one awesome wheelgun.

Silvanus
October 24, 2007, 11:07 AM
I don't like 1911s. But I love S&W revolvers, so my vote is for the 686. I hope I can pick up my own 66 tomorrow!

And you already have two autos. Another reason to get a revolver first. You won't regret it.

RPCVYemen
October 24, 2007, 12:32 PM
Trying to decide which will be the next handgun I'm going to purchase. I'll be purchasing it within the next 6 months.

For what purpose?

Mike

The Bushmaster
October 24, 2007, 01:01 PM
The poll results, so far, reflect my opinion. Both...

Autolycus
October 24, 2007, 03:07 PM
Get the .357 simply because prelocks are not that common and its pretty easy to get a SA 1911.

Chrome
October 24, 2007, 03:17 PM
For what purpose?

Mike

This gun will be used for everything but carry (P99 fills that need). Home defense, range time, showing off, etc. I intend to buy both...but it's rather which should come first.

Later,
Chrome...

Later,
Chrome...

rcmodel
October 24, 2007, 03:25 PM
Neither one.
I would get a S&W 625-6 .45 ACP Mountain Gun & cover all the bases.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/100_3888.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Steve C
October 24, 2007, 03:35 PM
You already have 2 semi's, its time for a change, get the revolver 1st and pick up the .45 later.

Good used revolvers are going up fast in price.

RPCVYemen
October 24, 2007, 04:04 PM
This gun will be used for everything but carry (P99 fills that need). Home defense, range time, showing off, etc. I intend to buy both...but it's rather which should come first.


A revolver is more versatile WRT power levels. Any of the straight walled "revolver" rounds (357 magnum, 44 magnum, 45 LC) can be loaded and fired successfully through a very wide power range - from "bullet barely leaves barrel" to "I think I broke my wrist" without any changes to the revolver.

That is also true if you want to play with different bullet types (FMJ, Hollowpoint, SWC, etc) because there are no "feed" issues with a revolver.

That may or may not be important to you.

Mike

MinnMooney
October 24, 2007, 05:35 PM
For sheer fun at the range : either the .357 or the .45ACP
For personal protection : either the .357 or the .45ACP
For a CCW : S&W 442 or 360PD Ultra light weight, mega-dependable & packs a huge punch!

GaryP
October 24, 2007, 08:11 PM
The .45acp for sure!



:evil:

MCgunner
October 24, 2007, 08:20 PM
Never waste another dime on another 1911, personally. Revolver all the way!

StrikeEagle
October 24, 2007, 08:22 PM
Get the .357 simply because prelocks are not that common and its pretty easy to get a SA 1911.


I favor the .45 first, and that's the way I voted... but this is an excellent point. If you have a line on a clean Smith pre-lock at an attractive price, that's the one to get first, I have to admit.

They may not be so easy to come by later.

SA 1911's will be around.

craig_o
October 24, 2007, 08:27 PM
SO HARD TO PICK.

I like Smiths and Rugers plenty, BUT a full size 1911 is absolutely mandatory to own while the .357 can be a little more tricky in terms of which one and for what purpose...

The way I look at it is, as always, from a practical CCW standpoint. Not sure I could conceal a 686 all that well (the compact grip-accepting GP100 is another story, however) while I'm very confident I could conceal a 1911. I generally like how revolvers feel and operate and I love everything about a .357, but a .45 could potentially make more sense at this time.

I hate it when people say this, but I gotta do the same: you could hardly go wrong with either.

RPCVYemen
October 24, 2007, 09:10 PM
This gun will be used for everything but carry...

For a CCW : S&W 442 or 360PD Ultra light weight, mega-dependable & packs a huge punch!

The way I look at it is, as always, from a practical CCW standpoint.

eldon519
October 24, 2007, 09:36 PM
People always bring up the different available power levels that a revolver can use, but I use a 18.5lb spring in my 1911 and it will cycle starting 185-grain target loads all the way up to +P levels of performance. Just hold it like you mean it ;)

Granted you can always go lower with a revolver, I'm not really sure you gain anything by doing so after a certain point.

MCgunner
October 24, 2007, 10:09 PM
2.7 grains Bullseye behind a Lee cast 148 grain wadcutter is a very accurate load in all my .38s and .357s and makes a great small game load for squiirel or rabbit. In some of my guns, I like a 105 grain Lee SWC (very accurate bullet) in front of 2.3 grains bullseye. It approximates .22LR for power, but past 30 yards it has a lot of drop. Great plinker, though, very cheap to load. A can of bullseye lasts forever. Of course, revolvers are generally more accurate than autos and can do things like hunt small game if you get a good one. The most accurate 1911 might put 'em into 1", but it won't be particularly great for what most 1911 shooters have a 1911 for, self defense. The gun has to be loose to be reilable and loose doesn't jive with accurate.

I consider the 4" DA .357 magnum revolver far more useful than the average auto for reasons of versatility in the field as well as being a fine and powerful self defense weapon, one of the best stoppers of all time in police hands, in fact. It may be a little slower to reload, but don't tell Jerry Miculek that. :D Of course, I'm no Jerry Miculek, but I don't reckon I'll need worry about speed reloads too much in a civilian self defense role. I'd rather have one hot 140 grain .357 magnum jacketed hollowpoint well placed than a magazine of hardball sprayed all over, personally.

doc2rn
October 25, 2007, 12:33 AM
A pre lock 686 is the one to pick up now while you can. The 1911 isn't going anywhere, it will still be there and ammo for the 686 is $8/ 50 rd of 38's around here $11 for 50 rd of Blazer 45. Grab the S&W while you can.

whited
October 25, 2007, 02:00 PM
I think that as long as you are comfortable with a revolver and can
shoot it well, the .357 Magnum caliber in a medium/large frame would suit
your purposes better than a .45 ACP caliber pistol.

For HD and showing off (range), a .357 Magnum through a 4" barrel will be
at least equal to the .45 ACP, and will likely outperform in terms of
accuracy.

As others have mentioned, the revolver and its ammo (.38 & .357) might be
less expensive, if that is a consideration.

It is important to remember that there is no wrong choice here. This is a
personal preference issue.

:)

Will anyone else in the house be using the gun? If so, maybe their
preference should decide.

Harley Quinn
October 25, 2007, 02:25 PM
I voted for the 357.

I like both but if I had one choice it would be the 357:uhoh:

I actually prefer the semi autos now, in other calibers but that is another topic:)

Walkalong
October 25, 2007, 02:44 PM
I voted 1911 because they are, in .45ACP, my favorite pistol, bar none. I have a pair of 686's (4" & 2 1/2") and like them a lot. :)

Phil DeGraves
October 26, 2007, 11:46 AM
"can't say I agree with you on that one glockman19. Actually I was going to mention that in addition to the .357 disadvantages listed by Gustav, I would add ammo cost to the list. I get blaser brass at $10 or $11 a box to feed my .45s. I find .357 and even .38 ammo to be considerably more expensive."

Nonsense. .38 spl ammo is much less expensive than .45 ammo.
Federal American Eagle is less than Blazer Brass and you can reload it when your done. If you can't find .38 spl ammo cheaper than .45, then you are not looking very hard.

BlindJustice
October 26, 2007, 02:08 PM
I have a 1911, a .45 WHeelgun, a 686 7shoooter and
a Model 60 - the 1911 is my favorite with the .45 wheelgun
a close 2nd place.

kmrcstintn
October 26, 2007, 02:51 PM
more of a revolver fan...voted for .357 magnum; had @ 6 1911's over the years and not really impressed with the 'hit and miss' of reliability; if I were to consider a .45 acp semiautomatic that did some defensive work in its stint with me, I would be looking at something more modern in design that is meant to run defensive loads (Glock, H&K, Springer XD, etc);

if you want both a revolver and .45 acp, there are a few ways to combine both...S&W 625 or older 25 for DA or Ruger Blackhawk combo w/ cylinders for .45 LC & .45 acp for SA; I like .45 cal, but I went pure retro and got an Uberti Cattleman in .45 LC...as long as I don't try to run hot & macho loads, it will last a lifetime

TheotherMikeG
October 26, 2007, 05:57 PM
Don't buy the 686! They're getting scarce and I don't have one yet. ;)

jrfoxx
October 27, 2007, 06:03 AM
I say the .357. Simply cuz of the versatility. Very cheap to shoot 38s all day long and can load up some good 357 if you want to do some more serious PD or handgun hunting. I have both a 45 and 357 enjoy the heck out of both of em.
could'nt agree more.

plexreticle
October 27, 2007, 06:12 AM
For hunting I would go for the .357 for self defense I would go 45acp.

I like 45 acp vs .357 for SD because of lower recoil pulse, low flash and subsonic.

.357 can be loaded up or down for just about anything you care to hunt and is also a good choice for self defense.

Just imho.

jad0110
October 27, 2007, 10:07 AM
My vote :evil: :D :


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%20686%20Plus%20357%20Magnum/IMG_1587.jpg


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Springfield%20M1911A1%20Mil-Spec%2045%20ACP/IMG_5544.jpg

gunnie
October 28, 2007, 06:46 PM
i own and have owned many, many 357 rotary platforms, same-o for 1911 semis. short bbld, long bbl'd, fixed or adjustable sights. stainless, blued, plated or parkerized. heavy slide 1911's, heavy bbld revolvers.

night sights, flashlights or bragging rights, they are both excellent choices for defence or hunting work, if the operator is. i have seen first hand, a commander length 45ACP stop a 600Lb [+,-] cow moose with a bad altitude. i have heard of a LEO shooting where the "way too light" 125gr 357 litterally shoved a vertabrae completely out the perp's back.

etc...etc...

i do not agree that either will not work for hunting, i do not agree that either has a great advantage over the other for self defence. modern ammo developments can cure the muzzle flash issue, for all practical considerations. ammo costs can be close for a wise shopper and/or reloader. both shoot flat enough for real world hand gun ranges. either will remove ALL of the fight from a wannabe perp.

you are asking a personal choice question that can't be intellegently answered by any other that the "MY choice is best" crowd without some kinda background info....

an above posting asked who else may also use the firearm. this IS pertainant as semi-auto usage requires more training than a double action revolver. if you or your wife need to rely on this for things that go bump in the night, the simplicity of just pulling the trigger can't be beat. also, weaker wrists can sometimes reduce the reliability #'s of the 1911 recoil operated cycling.

if you/both of you are willing to practice enough to become familiar with the 1911, it IS an excellent choice for self defence. in my book, the best for the most dangerous species. but we're talking about YOUR book here.

nowadaze, both can be had in packages that are small enough to conceal as well as most other EFFECTIVE calibers. but in either platform, they will become less user friendly in direct proportion to the size reduction. it is also worth consideration that most handguns powerfull enough to save your assets are NOT going to be "concealled" from somebobdy who is looking for tell-tale signs of same.

despite common thoughts about both platforms, the 1911 will usually fair better after taking the mud, blood and crud test. this is due to the critical moving action components being protected from entry better than a revolver. on the other hand, the revolver has rarely been reported to have any failure to feed issues by those who use the correct caliber ammo. obvious to even the most casual observer, the 1911 will be reloaded faster. but how many cases of 6+ attackers have you read about lately?

despite cases of failure due to poor magazines, poor bullet choices or a lack of maintainence, both have a well proven track record for self defence use.

only you can decide what best fills your needs.

"choose wisely, grasshopper"

gunnie

goon
October 29, 2007, 12:09 AM
I'd go with the .357.
I don't always have one but I do always keep my dies and reloading components for them because I never know when I might buy another. :)
They are just so versatile.

sandy4570
October 29, 2007, 12:33 AM
.357 Magnum Model 686 has the best double action trigger pull and very accurate and you don't have to bend down to pick up all the ejecting brass .:o

Sagetown
October 29, 2007, 09:51 AM
:) I'd have to choose the 1911 .45 for the purposes you described. It is a pleasure to shoot. And it's easy on your hearing as well as your hands.

Harley Quinn
October 29, 2007, 10:57 AM
I'd have to choose the 1911 .45 for the purposes you described. It is a pleasure to shoot. And it's easy on your hearing as well as your hands.

Hopefully you are not shooting this without hearing protection:uhoh:

:)

eldon519
October 29, 2007, 06:42 PM
The sound level really is relevant though. I've shot targets of opportunity in the woods with my 1911 and no hearing protection and didn't really suffer from it. I made the mistake once of firing my Ruger GP100 without hearing protection ONE time. My ears rang for well over a month, and I had to go see an E-N-T doctor about it. Took quite a while to recover. It was honestly worse than all the rifles I've shot at one time or another with no hearing protection.

MCgunner
October 29, 2007, 09:20 PM
I have a 12" compensated .30-30 I've fired while hunting, killed five deer with it so far, no hearing protection if I'm in the open, but inside a box blind, yeah, I carry my muffs. I've killed 2 deer and missed a hog, total 3 shots, with my .357 Blackhawk 6.5" without hearing protection and shot two javelina with a Rossi 4" M971 with full power .357s without hearing protection and had no ear ringing or otherwise mal-effects from the experience. In fact, I thought it sounded sweet echoing off the west Texas canyon walls. :D

I have a .38 for home defense. In a dark house, a .357 wouldn't be real nice on the ears or eyes.

WVMountainBoy
October 30, 2007, 06:12 AM
Okay I clicked the SF because I want one !!! But in honesty I already have a good .357 (or three) and am now trying to work my auto collection. Both are very good weapons, I don't think theres a quality issue with either so line out your prefrences and get the one that most applies.
Both are pretty good sized weapons, but I would guess the 1911 with its slimer profile would be the more concealable.

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