Q on shipping hanguns


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Walkalong
October 24, 2007, 08:33 AM
This may be old hat for many, but I have a question about a non FFL shiping a handgun to a FFL. What are the legalities and what do we have to do to be legal without it costing an arm and a leg for shipping? Thanks, Anthony

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joab
October 24, 2007, 08:40 AM
US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail. You can search the US Post Offer Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. UPS does not allow shipment of firearms FROM an unlicensed person (even to an FFL), unless the stated reason for the firearm shipment is for repair or modifications. (http://gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.asp?FAQID=1118&NoCount=1)

This is what I have followed in the past

Mad Magyar
October 24, 2007, 08:53 AM
FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service.

+1 I've shipped about 5 pistols over the years, and FedEx always delivered. I like the Overnight service; costly but reliable..

RyanM
October 24, 2007, 09:19 AM
The frame is legally the firearm, however, that only keeps you from shipping it USPS. It's fully, 100% legal to disassemble the gun and seperate it into two boxes (i.e., frame and slide, or frame and cylinder) and ship both as "gun parts" via UPS or FedEx ground, so long as the frame goes to an FFL. And the box without the frame can be shipped as parts via USPS. If you ship them by different carriers, to different addresses (like the frame UPS ground to the FFL, slide USPS Priority Mail to the buyer), that pretty much eliminates the chances of anyone figuring it out and stealing the gun.

Federal law states you must tell the carrier the box contains a firearm only if the box is not being shipped to an FFL.

AirForceShooter
October 24, 2007, 09:22 AM
Make very sure the FFL will accept it.

AFS

Walkalong
October 24, 2007, 09:33 AM
FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods.

Is this law or Fed-Ex policy?

Ala Dan
October 24, 2007, 10:03 AM
Greeting's AC My Friend-

This regulation was put into effect due to the amount of handguns being
stolen off of trucking terminal docks. I don't think the government had a
thing to do with this decision; but rather this is a FedEx written policy. I
think they have established a standard rate for overnight air; but I'm not
positive about that? At any rate, its worth the cost to insure that your
firearm isn't stolen~! :scrutiny:;)

joab
October 24, 2007, 05:52 PM
Is this law or Fed-Ex policyIt's FedEx policy
UPS has the same policy
USPS has a no handguns for commoner policy and the other shippers have a no gun policy

brickeyee
October 24, 2007, 05:58 PM
"The frame is legally the firearm, however, that only keeps you from shipping it USPS. It's fully, 100% legal to disassemble the gun and seperate it into two boxes (i.e., frame and slide, or frame and cylinder) and ship both as "gun parts" via UPS or FedEx ground, so long as the frame goes to an FFL."

The serial numbered frame remains a firearm no matter how many parts you remove.

inkhead
October 24, 2007, 10:46 PM
I've had lots of experience shipping packages and know the fedex system well. I probably shouldn't encourage this but of all the shipping services always use FedEx overnight, by 10:30am, not by 3pm.

Government checks happen at all places randomly but generally overnight packages are barely checked because if you drop it off near 5pm (usual cutoff time) it gets picked up and shipped out within 4 hours on a plane, so there isn't alot of time to go through packages.

Don't ship ammunition, unless you know how to make sure not even a hint of gunpowder gets anywhere. That means if you handled a firearm, left the house to ship a sealed package, you probably left enough scent for a dog to pickup.

Use gloves, disassemble the firearm, ship it in two packages, taken apart.. Some packages will be x-rayed, I've never had a problem, but put a note inside each package, about how you are following the law, and believe this is the right way to ship the package in the event you package does get opened you will just be a victim of misunderstanding who is an upstanding confused citizen.

Try not to break the laws if you can help it.

RyanM
October 24, 2007, 11:55 PM
The serial numbered frame remains a firearm no matter how many parts you remove.

And? Federal law says you can't ship a handgun, by federal law definition, via USPS. So don't do that!

UPS and FedEx company policy says you can't ship a "handgun" by their definition of a handgun, not federal law definition, unless it's overnight. So don't do that, either!

Problem solved. Don't ship the frame USPS, don't ship a complete handgun UPS/FedEx Ground.

RNB65
October 25, 2007, 12:04 AM
Federal law states you must tell the carrier the box contains a firearm only if the box is not being shipped to an FFL.

That is exactly what federal law says. But, unfortunately, the BATFE doesn't follow federal law. They make up their own law by making their own interpretations of federal law regardless of what the law says. And the BATFE says you must notify the common carrier:

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, [B]Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

I believe that federal law does not require you to notify the common carrier if you're shipping a firearm to an FFL. But the BATFE says you must and if you get caught doing otherwise, they're going to persuade a federal prosecutor to file charges against you in federal district court. With a really good lawyer you might eventually win the court battle, but it's going to cost you an arm and a leg. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Like the IRS, the BATFE does not have a sense of humor and they do not fight fair.

Soybomb
October 25, 2007, 01:31 AM
That is exactly what federal law says. But, unfortunately, the BATFE doesn't follow federal law.
Of course the atf follows the law. What do you believe you would be charged with? Breaking the atf's whim of the day? Read the laws linked to under the summary of that faq question. Its a faq, not an all inclusive answer.

http://cyber-byte.com/photos/atf.jpg

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