Explosion at Glock Facility in Smyrna, GA


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farscott
July 14, 2003, 12:33 PM
There has been an explosion today at the Glock facility in Smyrna, GA. Three people have been reported injured. The link for the article on the Atlanta Journal-Constitution's web site is http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/0703/14glock.html .

As of now, details are sketchy, but there has been some supposition about powder residue being a possible cause.

This may impact the supply of Glock pistols in the near future.

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GlocksRock
July 14, 2003, 12:37 PM
What a dumb story, they didn't even mention that Glock makes a .45 caliber pistol, and I guess they don't know the difference between a .38 and a .380. I hope everything is ok there, and I bet it wasn't a kB that caused the explosion.

El Tejon
July 14, 2003, 12:51 PM
"Cledus, I done tole you twicet! No smokin' on the shop floor, boy!":D

Kharn
July 14, 2003, 12:52 PM
I'm still a little confused why someone would want to buy a 17 shot .380 full size pistol (beyond those that cant buy a bigger caliber). :scrutiny:

Kharn

doctorhumbert
July 14, 2003, 01:00 PM
can you say KABOOM!?

GooseGestapo
July 14, 2003, 01:48 PM
"RESIDUE FROM SPENT AMMUNITION"?????
I guess that this is Glocks latest explanation for why some of their guns go "KB".
OH WELL !!
I suppose flying metal from an exploded gun could be classifed as "residue from 'spent' ammunition".

Sorry about the mishap and the injuries. I possibly know/have met the people invloved. Hope their injuries are not serious or permanent.

OF
July 14, 2003, 01:53 PM
I bet the explosion was on the line for .40 production. I hear the equipment on that line has some support problems...

;)

- Gabe

Tamara
July 14, 2003, 02:02 PM
Sometimes the jokes just write themselves, don't they? ;)

Kreed
July 14, 2003, 02:09 PM
URL: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/0703/14glock.html

3 hurt, 1 critically, in blast at Glock facility in Smyrna
Atlanta Journal-Constitution
7.14.03
MIKE MORRIS and DON PLUMMER

Three people were seriously burned late this morning in an explosion at a Smyrna gun manufacturer. The blast occurred in the facility's test-firing range area shortly before 11 a.m. at the Glock Inc. facility at 6000 Highlands Parkway.

Smyrna police Chief Larry Williams said one person, a male, sustained "very serious" injuries to the hands, face and arms, and described the injuries to the other employees, a male and a female, as "serious but not life-threatening."

He said the cause of the blast had not been determined, but added, "it appears the explosion was residue from spent ammunition."

All three of the injured were taken to the burn unit at Grady Memorial Hospital, the most seriously injured man by helicopter. Authorities would not release their identities.

Williams said there was no fire when firefighters arrived. He described the incident as a "flash" explosion.

"If there was any fire it was controlled by the automatic supression equipment," he said.

Glock said it would have no comment until Tuesday.

Firefighters called the fire marshal, OSHA and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobba and Firearms to the scene.

Glock manufactures 9 mm and .38- and .40-caliber handguns. The weapons are used by many police departments. The Smyrna facility is in an office park.

GooseGestapo
July 14, 2003, 02:28 PM
According to the AJC article, it was at the "test firing facility" meaning the "firing range".

What you want to bet it was a new .45 GAP under going testing and evaluation of an "off spec." batch of ammo???

Couldn't have been "bad reloaded ammo" this time !!!!

OH, MAYBE IT WAS SOME OF THAT GA-ARMS AMMO THAT's "BAD FOR GLOCKS"!!!!
(Yes, I've seen a Glock blown up by Ga-Arms ammo, one of my co-workers was holding it when it let go! Glock blamed .40 S&W ammo, Ga-arms blamed Glock pistol- they were both right, BTW)


What with the lack of support for the case head of the .40 S&W, enlarging it to .45 could leave a lot of room.
Wonder if we'll ever find out what "REALLY' happened.

I've had some "wonderful" discussions with some of the Glock employee's through the years. "Wonder" what the fall-out from this will be.

Shooter and 2 bystanders hurt. That was a "real" "KB" !!
Again, I hope they make out OK !!!

10-Ring
July 14, 2003, 02:39 PM
I really do hope nobody was seriously injured, but I find it funny (funny ironic not funny ha ha) that the GLock factory went kaboom :D

George Hill
July 14, 2003, 02:46 PM
I hate to say this... feeling bad for Glock and those injured...

But this is the funniest thing I have ever read.

Zip06
July 14, 2003, 03:14 PM
The Karma of Glock must be changing. Seems they are having a lot more problems lately.

10-Ring
July 14, 2003, 03:21 PM
There's a similar thread over in General Discssion ;)

Desert Dog
July 14, 2003, 03:22 PM
KB! at the Glock plant? :what:

Someone sneak some lead loads in??? :uhoh:

Kreed
July 14, 2003, 03:26 PM
No fooling. I looked there and didn't see it. Got a link? I really need to find out how "residue from spent ammunition" can explode! :rolleyes:

Hkmp5sd
July 14, 2003, 03:40 PM
I really need to find out how "residue from spent ammunition" can explode!

When the powder doesn't completely burn, it just comes of the barrel and/or the chamber and accumulates on the ground (or other surface). After a several thousand rounds, it can build up enough to make a nice kaboom. Similar to never sweeping/vacuuming around your reloading bench and spilling small amounts of powder in the area for a few months/years.

Glockster35
July 14, 2003, 03:48 PM
I agree this is totally possible. At one base I was at, we were testing a new Frangible round for the AF. One fo the things we noticed was that there was a lot of un-burnt gun powder left on the range floor after firing the rounds.

Now I know someone will ask how we noticed, so I will say that smoking on the line is not a good idea...and yes one of my instructors did! wow was that an awesome fireworks presentation...burnt 1/3 of the range from floor to ceiling!

Kreed
July 14, 2003, 04:06 PM
OK, Hkmp5sd, that sounds reasonable. You'd think that people working for a company like Glock might be more careful about something like that, but "accidents happen" I suppose.

bogie
July 14, 2003, 04:17 PM
Folks have had problems from firing through homemade "suppressors" made of a series of barrels or tires - the powder builds up, and will eventually catch fire.

But from the injuries described, they had a kaboom.

Brad Johnson
July 14, 2003, 04:19 PM
Another possibility is that maintenance personnel were cleaning the residue by vacuum. A vacuum canister full of airborne powder residue would be pretty nasty if ignited. If you've ever used a shop vac you know that it creates a pretty intense static charge, so ignition by static spark is not out of the question.

Brad

Archie
July 14, 2003, 04:37 PM
is a fire hazard, but not explosive. To explode, gunpowder has to be confined in some manner.

Unburnt powder laying on the floor or counter of a range might give a pretty impressive (and brief) flash fire. Might even set a wooden counter or floor on fire. But no amount of powder on the floor is going to "explode", or cause a firearm to explode.

Article says one man had "...very serious injuries". All three injured were taken to the burn ward. That does not sound like a firearm detonation. Usually, when a gun blows up, one goes to the ER for removal of fragments.

I would really like to hear the rest of this story. Wonder if we'll ever get the real scoop?

Norm357
July 14, 2003, 05:25 PM
People don't forget that three people were burnt very badly. The jokes are in very poor taste.


Norm

JimC
July 14, 2003, 05:56 PM
There is nothing funny or humorous about anyone getting hurt, especially in the industry that we all enjoy so very much no matter what the name of the company is. :mad:

It sounds like, and I don't want to speculate, what they term "range flash". As said above, it's an accumulation of unburnt powder that exits the muzzle when the firearm is fired.
Not cleaning up on a regular basis can be very dangerous especially on an indoor range.

TheeBadOne
July 14, 2003, 06:22 PM
People don't forget that three people were burnt very badly. The jokes are in very poor taste.
What Norm said :(

Nero Steptoe
July 14, 2003, 06:22 PM
Any of you geniuses giggling about KB's want to explain how one guy was burned over 80% of his body? Sounds like a flash fire, more than an explosion. Hope those guys get better and don't suffer too much.

dport
July 14, 2003, 08:09 PM
Considering the responses to three people being injured, one critically, I guess the ideal of THEHIGHROAD is more theory than practice.

4v50 Gary
July 14, 2003, 08:26 PM
Good point dport. Bad kharma to laugh at the misfortune of others.

Ed Brunner
July 14, 2003, 08:40 PM
I agree that it might be a flash "explosion" from unburned powder. Over the years they probably had a lot of it and didn't clean up often enough.

OneShot
July 14, 2003, 09:31 PM
I guess the unburnt powder theory would explain why my local indoor range floor is always wet from being hosed down at the beginning of every day.

I do not find three people being hurt funny at all, but you would think that a gun making company would know enough to keep their range clean and up to snuff.

Like some have stated, I wonder if we will ever know the truth.--Oneshot

JohnKSa
July 14, 2003, 09:50 PM
This is the first time I realized that some people are so rabid about their preference in guns that they would actually be happy if people with differing opinions were severely injured.

KT9
July 14, 2003, 09:52 PM
I hope the explanation ends up being good. I would hate to see headlines in the paper or on tv of, "One of the biggest handgun makers negligent at own plant." or somesuch. Those who do not like guns could certainly use this against those of us who do.

Jerrywahid
July 14, 2003, 10:25 PM
These people work very hard every day just like every one else. I think all of the jokes are in very poor taste. I really didn't expect to see this. Especially from some of the Mods.

Razor
July 14, 2003, 10:52 PM
I think all of the jokes are in very poor taste. I really didn't expect to see this. Especially from some of the Mods.

Same here. :(

JShirley
July 14, 2003, 11:20 PM
Well, I certainly understand how you could feel that way, and perhaps they are. I know none of the mods here wish ill toward any unoffending party, and I don't think they were laughing about anyone getting hurt.

John

Greybeard
July 14, 2003, 11:55 PM
The "flash fire" speculation could be on the mark.

I got in too big of a hurry once last year to put on the mask and properly deal with a small pile of "downrange sweepings" about the size of a pie plate. It consisted of a mixture of spent brass, unburned gunpowder and paper target punchouts. It was about 5 yards down range next to a wall.

One of our regular members was shooting some reloads that evidently put a spark in the pile. Hello 6'+ fire geyser! The walls and ceilings are lined with metal, so after clean-up, the only visible damage was a small area of blackened floor. The shooter apologized repeatedly, but I insisted, that no, I should not have left that little pile on the floor downrange in the first place. :(

Prayers for those affected in Georgia.

Pendragon
July 15, 2003, 02:49 AM
Glock makes a .380 pistol that is not available in the US because it does not have enough "points" to be considered a "sporting arm".

My understanding is that .380 is popular is a lot of places that limit civilian use of military and police calibers or have limits on how powerful a handgun you can own.

TheeBadOne
July 15, 2003, 02:54 AM
My understanding is that .380 is popular is a lot of places that limit civilian use of military and police calibers or have limits on how powerful a handgun you can own.
Exactly, and it's the same reason Glock is releasing their own .45 GAP round.

seeker_two
July 15, 2003, 05:19 AM
Prayers for those injured & their families...

c_yeager
July 15, 2003, 06:01 AM
Some people deal with serious matters through humor. And sometimes people find humor in situations that are dire and tragic to others. THis is human nature. And if you have EVER laughed at anything like say this www.darwinawards.com (http://www.darwinawards.com) then your standing in a glass house. Otherwise feel free to cast stones. But i have found humor in such things (although NOT in this case) so i will remain silent on issue.

JimC
July 15, 2003, 06:30 AM
Especially from some of the Mods.

Unfortunately, being a Moderator doesn't mean you always "write" in good taste or use the utmost in common sense.

mete
July 15, 2003, 07:04 AM
Unburned powder can be a hazard. There is another hazard for handloaders, in time dust from primers can accumulate in the press and may ignite. Occasionally thoroughly clean your press.

Lexter
July 15, 2003, 07:44 AM
The injured folks were taken to Grady Memorial? Good Hospital but darned scary place!

I hope they all recover soon. Love Glock or hate 'em, gotta pull for the people!


Lexter

444
July 15, 2003, 07:53 AM
"I'm still a little confused why someone would want to buy a 17 shot .380 full size pistol "

I recently was talking to a guy that lives in Mexico City who owns and carrys one of these. I asked him about it and I think they have certain calibers that are legal to own, or possibly this is the largest caliber allowed.

I was once at an indoor range when the dust on the floor was ignited by gunfire. It wasn't all that spectacular or anything but it burnt for several minutes.

Greybeard
July 15, 2003, 09:20 AM
Texas DPS has a new range facility near Florence that I'll get to see/use during instructor recertification next month. I highly suspect it may include a design change from the old range adjacent to headquarters. One of the old RSO's primary rules (and MAJOR pet peeve) was "Do NOT walk on the gravel!" (which is just in front of the firing line). Risk of spark ignighting accumulation of unburned powder.

From what i've observed in cleaning up on concrete floor in our little range, I can only imagine how much gunpowder might be in or under gravel.

Our downrange floor needs attention most often after shooting with shorter barrels ...

Carlos Cabeza
July 15, 2003, 10:23 AM
Manufacturing environments can be hazardous to say the least. Introduce explosives or flammables and the risks for accidents are greatly increased. I hope all involved or injured a speedy recovery.

P.S. I hope the safety guy gets a good butt chewin'

Preacherman
July 15, 2003, 10:47 AM
Looks like it was unburned powder after all... From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/0703/15explosion.html), July 15:

Workplace blast burns three seriously
Incident occurs at gun maker's test-firing range

By DON PLUMMER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Three employees were burned seriously Monday morning in an explosion at a Smyrna gun manufacturer.

The blast, inside the test-firing range at the headquarters of Glock Inc. at 6000 Highlands Parkway, resulted in "very serious" life-threatening injuries to the hands, face and arms of a male employee, said Smyrna Police Chief Larry Williams. Two other employees, a male and a female, sustained "serious but not life-threatening" injuries, Williams said.

"It doesn't appear that the explosion was from a weapon," he said. "At this time, it appears the explosion was residue from spent ammunition." The cause of the blast will be investigated by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Williams said.

The injured employees were taken to the burn unit at Grady Memorial Hospital, the most seriously injured man by helicopter. Authorities would not release their identities.

Two remained hospitalized today, while the third was treated and released, said Grady spokeswoman Frankie Smith.

The most seriously injured man was in critical condition today, and the woman was in stable condition, Smith said.

"There was a blast-fire type of explosion that burned the employees," Williams said. However, sprinklers were activated by the blast and there was no fire when firefighters arrived, Williams said. "If there was any fire it was controlled by the automatic suppression equipment."

Damage was confined to a room where employees test guns manufactured at the company, Williams said.

Glock issued a statement Monday through emergency officials saying the company would have no comment until today.

Calls to Glock on Monday afternoon were answered by a recording saying the company's offices were closed. Calls to OSHA were not immediately returned.

Glock was founded in 1963 In Austria. Its U.S. and Canadian headquarters in Smyrna opened in 1985. Glock pistols are used by 65 percent of U.S. law enforcement agencies, according to the company's Web site.

The company manufacturers 37 types of pistols as well as field knives, shovels and shooting apparel.

David Park
July 15, 2003, 11:08 AM
The company manufacturers 37 types of pistols... :D (closer than the last article, but still no cigar)

Bottom Gun
July 15, 2003, 04:09 PM
Sometimes the most unexpected things happen.

We had a large explosion here last week which was caused by helium over-pressurization. Several people were injured here also but they are all recovering.

Kentucky Rifle
July 15, 2003, 04:38 PM
I'm ashamed of the people who found humor in this accident.

Kentucky Rifle

Combat-wombat
July 15, 2003, 04:45 PM
1. Those stupid people don't know the difference between a .38 and a .380
2. Glock .380s aren't even imported into the US
3. Glock makes guns in .45, 10mm, and .357 auto, and none of those were mentioned

dav
July 15, 2003, 04:56 PM
Several here have stated, in no uncertain terms, how upset they are with "highroad" members finding humor in Glock having a kB.

I wish to state, just as vehemently, that I have enough brains to separate the ironic Glock kB from the injuries sustained by the workers.

There is *NO* disrespect to the injured persons in discussing the situation with them removed from the discussion.

We all wish them well, and hope for their speedy recovery, and are very sorry that this occurred.

But I take great offense :fire: in your position that I am hurting them by laughing at the irony.

David Row
San Diego

dport
July 15, 2003, 05:04 PM
Combat-Wombat,
1. True enough ignorance caused the misunderstanding here. However a .380 is more of a .38 caliber than a .38 special is (.357 bullet diameter).
2. .380s are imported into the U.S. and you can buy them second hand from LE sales.
3. Your point is?

Oh and for those of you wondering wherre Glocks 1-16 are to bring the models up to 37, over at GT they counted something like 35 models of Glocks. Remember the longslide (ie 17L) and compensated models.

dav,
I personnally never said you were hurting them by pointing out the "irony." I don't recall reading a post that did say that. I am, however, disappointed that many here found the explosion funny. It's in poor taste and certainly not in keeping with the standards of a site called "the high road." Let's face it, you took the low road. That's your right, but I think it is in poor taste.

Mal H
July 15, 2003, 05:23 PM
psst - dport, a .380 bullet is nominally .355" in diameter. ;)

dport
July 15, 2003, 06:42 PM
[spits out shoe] Yep. I don't know what in the world I was thinking. I think I was thinking about the Makarov, which is .364, right? Or did I screw that one up too? Anyway I was completely WRONG. Not the first and won't be the last time I'm sure. Thanks Mal H! [/puts saliva soaked shoe back on foot] :eek:

Please don't tell my wife I admitted to being wrong. She'd never let me live it down. Thanks.

Boats
July 15, 2003, 07:30 PM
Let's have an offense-a-thon.:rolleyes:

There is nothing ignoble about finding the humor in tragedy. Dark humor is often the reflexive reaction of many people when hearing about grave news.

That doesn't mean, however, that there is a corresponding lack of compassion for the victims of the accident. One can seperate the grave situation of the flash fire and its aftermath on the victims of the incident and point to the dark irony and parallels between the incident and the company at which it occurred, without being inhumane.

Many people think the Glock series is substandard in safety. So too, it seems, are their firing ranges.

Glock is widely perceived to be an arrogant Johnny-come-lately that is so innovative, according to its more rabid fans, that everything else is "obsolete." Whatever the truth of the matter, or lack of it, many small arms companies have been around a lot longer and not blown-up a range. Glock did, to its credit, have state-of-the-art protection for its precious building according to the article.

Certain models of Glock are perceived to have a KABOOM! problem. Now the perceptual problem is companywide in North America.

Glock is castigated for its voluntary participation in ballistic fingerprinting, which necessitates a lot of cartridges being fired to meet a stupid requirement only observed in two states which hate civilian gun sales. Is there some karmic justice in this corporate black eye?

Making fun of Glock is not off-limits merely because the corporation almost killed three of its employees. Ever made a Hindenburg reference? Ever call someone a Nazi? Ever make a joke invoking the Titanic? Everyone has done something like this. Is it in great taste? Not necessarily. Is it indicative of anything more than not waiting an "appropriate" period before telling such jokes? Maybe. Is it vile or socially unacceptable? Yes, but only to the victims or people who know them.

Put the high horses back in the stable.

Skunkabilly
July 15, 2003, 07:44 PM
*sigh*

Right now there's still a chance of a guy dying because of this.

If people are gonna be insensitive bastards, at least do it after the guy gets better. I don't think this is the time and place for it.

dport
July 15, 2003, 07:48 PM
Saying the flash fire was caused by test firing to provide casings to the ballistic fingerprinting program is totally off of the mark. Glock has test fires every gun that goes through Smyrna. The test fired the guns BEFORE ballistic fingerprinting was an issue.

I completely understand dark humor. But the posts here were more than that. It was more of a "see I told you so." Why? Because Glock dared to challenge the gun culture that existed in the US. It was plasitic when guns were stainless or blued. It chambered 9mm when the America round was the .45ACP. It had no manual safety, when America was infatuated with cocked and locked. It beat an American gun company to the punch with their new cartrige. And now Glock dares to challenge the .45ACP with its .45GAP.

Is Glock the end all be all. Of course not. The American consumer market is becoming more and more niche oriented, so I doubt anything will be the end all be all.

I get the feeling many people feel Glock "got what's comin' to 'em." The posts were more Nelson's "HAHA" then it was dark humor dealing with a loss.

My standard is this: if it was a Kimber, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, Wilson, etc. range that had a flash fire would I have made jokes? I can honestly say no. I'd be more concerned with the well-being of the injured.

Boats
July 15, 2003, 08:01 PM
Saying the flash fire was caused by test firing to provide casings to the ballistic fingerprinting program is totally off of the mark. Glock has test fires every gun that goes through Smyrna. The test fired the guns BEFORE ballistic fingerprinting was an issue.

First of all, I am pointedly not contending the truth of the above. It is something I first saw on GlockTalk. My uninformed view is that the fire/explosion/whatever it was was probably caused by the bane of many indoor ranges: poor housekeeping.

I completely understand dark humor. But the posts here were more than that. It was more of a "see I told you so." Why? Because Glock dared to challenge the gun culture that existed in the US. It was plasitic when guns were stainless or blued. It chambered 9mm when the America round was the .45ACP. It had no manual safety, when America was infatuated with cocked and locked. It beat an American gun company to the punch with their new cartrige. And now Glock dares to challenge the .45ACP with its .45GAP.

Yippee for Glock. I saw it differently. Glock could shrivel up and die as a company or it could take over the world for all I care. The fact of the matter is, any company that "dares" to market with the singular Perfection, which has upgrades rather than recalls, which calls its trigger a safety invites the abuse it takes.

SNIP

I get the feeling many people feel Glock "got what's comin' to 'em." The posts were more Nelson's "HAHA" then it was dark humor dealing with a loss.

What if they were? Maybe Glock, the company, got what's coming to it. I didn't perceive anything that was directed at the individuals harmed in the incident. It's called schadenfreude--taking joy in the misfortune of another. That sentiment is directed at the company, not the individuals involved. My prayers are for the injured, not for their insipid employer's reputation.

My standard is this: if it was a Kimber, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, Wilson, etc. range that had a flash fire would I have made jokes? I can honestly say no. I'd be more concerned with the well-being of the injured.

Had it been another company so easy to poke fun at many people would. You'd condemn them for making fun of an artificial entity that employs real people no one is making fun of.

HankL
July 15, 2003, 08:19 PM
Having never used an indoor firing range I had no idea of the problem of residue buildups. I suppose OSHA will offer some suggestions on house keeping unless standards are already in place.

My thought's are with the injured as well as the folks that run the plant in Smyrna. Speedy recovery to the hurt and speedy get your stuff together to Glock.

Glock VS 1911, all I can say is if you are a fan of one you owe it to yourself
to own at least one version of the other. I kinda like my G26. The 6 1911 versions around here don't seem to mind a glock in the stable.

I'm off to look for spilled powder.

Lexter
July 15, 2003, 09:07 PM
I wonder if this incident will trickle-down to protocol changes at the local ranges we all use? (regarding cleaning and powder residue)

Makes you wonder!

Lexter in NC

Zip06
July 15, 2003, 09:16 PM
This incident is being widely publicized because it happened at Glock. Within this thread there are examples of similar occurrences at smaller ranges. I have seen a fire at the indoor range I shoot at (it was quickly extinguished) following a mass qualification of rent-a-cops who were shooting .38's. There are protocols in place (mandated by OSHA) and driven by liability which keep the incidence low but you can never be to safe. Any way you cut it, this is a tragedy.

Oracle
July 15, 2003, 10:37 PM
It is a tragedy, and Boats, you're wrong to use it as a springboard to criticise Glock, which is exactly what you're doing. Good grief, people, can't we pull together over anything, including a tragedy like this, instead of using it, like Boats has, criticise a company and those who use it's products? It's no wonder that we have problems organizing against anti-gun legislation when we exhibit such poor attitudes and behaviors as this.

S_O_Laban
July 16, 2003, 01:09 AM
I somehow doubt that Boats needs this type of situation for a springboard.:D I suspect he would do just fine without it.

I could be wrong, but I think Boats is just explaining the irony of this situation. As has been pointed out, I don't think any ill will has been expressed towards the victims of this incident.

Boats
July 16, 2003, 02:24 AM
Oracle--

Perhaps you are not reading carefully, nor evidently do you know of my decently publicized desire for a G20 when I can get sanely priced full cap mags for it. Search it out, it ain't difficult. Like many, I have a respect/hate view of the COMPANY, not of its EMPLOYEES. Glock makes exactly one product that is on my list of eventual acquisitions. However, I am not blinded by devotion to a CORPORATION, especially one as arrogant as the one with an outpost in Smyrna.

I am not criticizing Glock so much as I am defending the right of those who did crack jokes about the COMPANY to do so without having to endure the overbearing sanctimony of those who would shut them up because they can't divorce Glock the CORPORATION from the PEOPLE who were injured.

Certainly the victims of the accident did not deserve what happened to them, but what did happen to them indisputably reflects poorly on the COMPANY. That people can't kick the COMPANY, in part for what it allowed happen to its EMPLOYEES, is certainly hypocritical coming from this crowd, many of whom cracked jokes when Sarah Brady contracted cancer, who took delight when Sean Penn's car was broken into, who made some pretty dark jokes before and during the recent war, for a myriad use of cultural gestures that through usage, minimize the death surrounding historical events that were not the least bit funny to the participants--such as I illustrated above, and who find humor in the antics of people who accidently shoot themselves.

All I am saying is if you have ever, and I mean ever, done something like that in a different context than this one, then don't be casting the first stone here because of the "inappropriate" digs at the expense of a controversial COMPANY and most definitely not at the expense of the VICTIMS of the accident. Anyone who has NEVER done such a thing should be in the seminary or something because they are fully on their way to sainthood.

Clear enough?

Oracle
July 16, 2003, 08:10 AM
Boats,

I think that the cracking of jokes about a company when their employees get hurt, or about a person when they get cancer is in pretty bad taste, and can cast us all in a bad light. This is the High Road, shouldn't we be taking the high road in our comments about things like this?

It also reflects poorly on our other efforts. How does it look to a business owner who comes here when we're sending e-mails to him to get him to change his policy on CCW in his restaurant? Or a legislator when we're trying to get her to change her position on anti-self-defense legislation? Does it make them want to take us seriously, or not?

c_yeager
July 16, 2003, 08:55 AM
You know i dont often agree with boats but in this case he has a point. In ANY other situation if a comany ALLOWED its employees to get injured by such negligence we would be CRUCIFYING them for it. But because this is the beloved GLOCK we are remaining silent on that issue out of "respect" for the employees? RIIIIGH im sure they are awful glad that we arent badmouthing the company that allowed them to get injured.

buzz_knox
July 16, 2003, 09:08 AM
That doesn't mean, however, that there is a corresponding lack of compassion for the victims of the accident. One can seperate the grave situation of the flash fire and its aftermath on the victims of the incident and point to the dark irony and parallels between the incident and the company at which it occurred, without being inhumane.

Except that many of the offensive comments were one-liners referring to KBs with a little wink at the end. No hint of compassion, or should we just assume it's there.

Yes, many of us have made such dark jokes in the past. I was tempted to do so now. Then, I grew up. How about the next time a cop gets run over by a fleeing suspect, we make comments about "hey, the spike strip is supposed to go under the vehicle, not you!" Would that be funny? After all, the compassion for the decedent's family is understood, no?

Boats
July 16, 2003, 09:51 AM
Whatever floats your boat. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Irony is not a popular form of comedy precisely because many people don't get it or refuse to get it. Your spike strip analogy is pretty much lacking any ironic subtext worthy of commenting upon.

buzz_knox
July 16, 2003, 10:01 AM
Why? Because you don't see the "humor" in it? I don't see much irony in 80% burns on an innocent human being.

Boats
July 16, 2003, 10:06 AM
Well, had anyone been directly casting aspersions on a guy misfortunate enough to be burned that way I'd agree. However, the rasberries, such as they are have been directed at the company and its products and I am not belaboring that point any longer.

Without further ado, I bring you Exhibit A in my hypocrisy charge. It includes commentary by at least one brickbatter here who thought humor inappropriate in this thread, but found plenty in the silly death of a college student. Maybe the humor in that thread is appropriate because no Austrian corporations were harmed by association?

Catapult Death thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31371)

hops
July 16, 2003, 11:46 AM
Someone once said "One man's misfortune is another man's humour."

Alan Smithiee
July 16, 2003, 02:00 PM
ok, question, is this is situation that can affect outdoor ranges? we have an outdoor range with gravel laid down. we had a fire 2 years ago due to some hot steel fragments flying and landing in some dry grass. (even IDLM said it was a fluke). but we don't want any more flash fires (which is what it sounds like this was). and we certanly don't want anyone hurt.

is this powder build up a problem outdoors is what I want to know. and if so, what can be done about it.

instead of critisizing each other, lets try and learn from these poor people's misfortune.

Boats
July 16, 2003, 04:56 PM
The fact of the matter is, any company that "dares" to market with the singular Perfection, which has upgrades rather than recalls, which calls its trigger a safety invites the abuse it takes.

Forgive me for quoting myself, but the above is what is going on here. Hi-Point is nowhere near as arrogant as Glock, (and has in fact, never blown up part of its plant), and no one takes any delight in seeing the humble become even more humbled. Only when the mighty are laid low is there any fun to be found. It is hardly the hallmark of inconsistency to find humor in the Glock Corporation's tarnished image.

BTW, the Clooney analogy has a difference that makes it fail here. Clooney didn't kick just the NRA, which people can and do even here--he personally attacked Chuck Heston along the lines of a health condition Mr. Heston couldn't help but have. Here, the analogy would have to be that the wags in this thread ridiculed the injured employees' intelligence, for something beyond their control, to make their conduct the likes of Clooney's deplorable statements.

Byron Quick
July 16, 2003, 06:18 PM
Where did the 80% burn estimate come from? I've read that the unfortunate man was burned on his face, arms, and hands. That is NOT 80% of body surface area. According to the burn chart in my "Emergency & Critical Care Pocket Guide" the arms,hands, and face comprise a 27% Body Surface Area burn. To be life threatening, much of that would have to beyond 3rd degree. Beyond the skin, down into the muscle and even to the bone.

80% is definitely life threatening. 30% if just full thickness and not worse, should not be barring complications. Facial burns, though, hope the airway and lungs weren't injured.

God watch over him.

Bruce H
July 16, 2003, 07:50 PM
What I want to know is who was responsible for maintainance. Somebody sure fell off the pace here. Glock is the only manufacturer to have an explosion like this and they haven't been around as long as several others. They better loose the perfection in their advertising because pistols and ranges both going KB isn't good. How hard would it be to have twelve feet of grated floor in front of the shooting bench. Auto flush on schedule and the problems would be over. Probably not cost effective.

Boats
July 16, 2003, 08:03 PM
Well, again. I've heard of giving people the rope to hang themselves, but this is getting ridiculous. I think suicide is a sin:
Why did you just prove my original post by submitting the above? For goodness sake, read your own words!


You actually had a point conflating a personal attack on the human Chuck Heston with amusing, if darkly-humored, slamming of an artificial corporation and the inanimate objects it produces?

How many times does it need to be repeated? No one here personally attacked the victims involved, nor ever even implied that they deserved what they got.

You seem to have this strange desire to force people to extend their sympathy, (expressed or assumed), for the victims of the accident--to their employer. That is a non-sensical expectation. I can and do hate American Airlines, the organization, without bearing ill-will towards the folks who just happen to work at the aviation world's vortex of evil.:rolleyes:

pax
July 16, 2003, 08:14 PM
Please remember THR's Rule 4, folks. :scrutiny:

pax

4.) Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

AZLibertarian
July 17, 2003, 12:00 AM
To make sure this posting is relevant to the thread topic....My prayers go out to the injured, and I hope Glock can prevent a reoccurance of this event.

However, I'm a new guy to this forum, and there are a number of you who seem to have complaints about Glock products. When I carry, I most often carry my G23C, but I can't say I'm a Glock expert. Quite honestly, I don't shoot as often as I would like/ought to. Because I believe all our rights are guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment, my generalized focus on RKBA has been more on the "Rights" part of it, rather than the "Bearing" part.

So here's my question for those of you who appear to be much more active shooters than I: Just exactly what are your complaints about the Glock products? I'm not all that hung up on anyone's problems with corporate arrogance, or marketing slogans. If you're the kind of guy who likes to shoot a 1911 and a M14 over a G19 and an AR15 (--wood and steel over black plastic--)...That's fine. I see that as a difference of opinion in the same way that some guys prefer Fords over Chevys....they're each making the right decision for themselves. I don't intend to hijack the thread topic, but again, what are the Glock complaints out there?

Sven
July 17, 2003, 02:41 AM
Any other information on the explosion, which is the subject of this thread?

Greybeard
July 17, 2003, 08:28 AM
I checked the online version of Atlanta paper just now and found no follow-up article. Over at www.glocktalk.com, donations are being taken for the victims. At one point there were as many as 7 threads going there. A copy and paste below from post by a fella who goes by DJ Niner.

==========

"Forgive me if I missed this in the previous pages, but does anyone have a copy of the online video of that 60 Minutes report on Glock, Inc? IIRC, it had a short section at the beginning showing Glocks being test-fired; as I recall, the guns were being placed in some kind of a quick-release fixture, loaded, and fired into a tunnel of some sort. The tunnel COULD have been the problem; if it was very small, it probably wasn't cleaned by sweeping, and perhaps the operator didn't realize how much powder had built-up. One random spark strikes the wrong place, and WHOOOOOSH!

Can you imagine the focusing and projecting effect a tunnel/tube would have on this type of fire? It would certainly explain why one of the folks was burned so badly; he was probably nearest to the entrance of the tube, and caught the brunt of the exiting flames. My prayers go out to all involved.

If anyone has a copy of the 60 Minutes vid, or a functioning link, I'd like to see that first part of it again... "

============

:( Grey

FedGunner
July 18, 2003, 03:56 AM
Folks,

I test ammunition for a living. I understand it.

People doing function tests on firearms don't. They know guns.

I'm willing to bet that this was caused by bad housekeeping. period.

We clean our "trap" alleys once every 8 hours, for just this reason. I generally sweep up at least 300 grains of unburnt powder after a shift. It wouldn't take long to accumulate a serious amount if basic clean-up is ignored.

Gunhead
July 18, 2003, 05:07 AM
FedGunner,

I see that you are working as ballistic technician. Approximately how many rounds you fire in an 8 hour shift?

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