Mosin-Nagant 91/30 Manufacture Dates


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minutemen1776
October 24, 2007, 12:45 PM
I recently bought a Mosin-Nagant M44 from Aim that I really like. It was made in 1948, so it's of post-war manufacture. I'm thinking I'd like to get another Mosin-Nagant that has some WWII history. I know all the M38s are of WWII manufacture, but what about the 91/30? Were these all phased out when the M44 was adopted? In other words, if I opt for a 91/30, is there any chance I'd wind up with another post-war rifle, or are all these either pre-war or WWII vintage?

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mp510
October 24, 2007, 12:57 PM
Technically, it is possible to find an 91/30 that was made after WWII, as some were made as sniper rifles through the 50's. The snipers were often reconverted into infantry rifles later on. I have only seen a couple of those- Aztec INTL had a couple of them back when they were importing them, and they segregated them.

But yes, as a general rule 91/30 production ended in 1944.

http://russian-mosin-nagant.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=47

Hoppy590
October 24, 2007, 01:16 PM
Both Romania and Hungary continued to make 91/30's into the 1950's. Albania made them into the 1960's

the Russians USED 91/30's into the 50's but stoped making new rifles at Izhevsk in 45. and tula the year before

http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM9130H.htm
http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM9130R.htm
http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM9130A.htm

Hoppy590
October 24, 2007, 01:23 PM
Added: no soviets made after the war, so anyone like Century will have war era rifles ( il bet you its a 1944 Izhevsk)

the other stuff is rare and hard to find, no importers bringing it in. may find it in a shop some where but extremely doubtfull on stuff like the Albanian

Acheron
October 24, 2007, 01:26 PM
It's also possible to find 91/30's from the interwar period. My 91/30 was made at Ishevsk in 1940, which is before Russia joined the war (obviously).

But as said before, production of 91/30's had ceased by '45.

minutemen1776
October 25, 2007, 12:01 PM
Thanks for everyone's replies. I'm think I may try to get a Tula 91/30 so that I can get an earlier production. I understand that Tula did not make 91/30s after 1942.

Ash
October 25, 2007, 12:15 PM
I had a 1943 Made Tula 91/30.

Ash

mp510
October 25, 2007, 12:32 PM
I had a 1943 Made Tula 91/30.

Ash
I wonder if they stuck a 1943 barrel on a '42, or earlier, reciecver.

Ash
October 25, 2007, 12:49 PM
No, it was a 1943 receiver. The entire effect was crude and the finish was very frosted (bore was fine). Star was very basic.

Ash

Hoppy590
October 25, 2007, 01:47 PM
I understand that Tula did not make 91/30s after 1942.
no tula made 91/30's up till 1944 production drasticaly droped due to pressure on the factory from german forces and never fully recovered.


http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinProduction.htm

this data shows how tula seems to be the underdog in the arms race
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/RussianSovietMosinNagantNumbers.asp
tula made just LESS in numbers so are valued more

Spiggy
October 25, 2007, 03:18 PM
It's also possible to find 91/30's from the interwar period. My 91/30 was made at Ishevsk in 1940, which is before Russia joined the war (obviously).
Russian Arms manufacturing started long before 1940 though, there's always the war with Japan, up to the Winter War with Finland in 1939

Older arms were updated again to the 91/30 format(why waste good old rifles right?) so you have chances to find M91s and other pre-91/30 variations that were reconfigured to 91/30s. Example; the Ex-Dragoon 91/30s that we occasionally see

Acheron
October 25, 2007, 03:37 PM
I know all about the earlier production of 91/30's and M1891's. I was just saying that it is rare to find a MN that was made before 1936 or so. Mainly because a lot of those older rifles were converted into 91/30's and were lost/captured/destroyed during the War.

Spiggy
October 25, 2007, 07:10 PM
ah, gotcha, yea

that and especially US/French contract M91s in original format

ArchAngelCD
October 26, 2007, 12:22 AM
My 91/30 has confusing markings on the receiver. It has the Wreath around the Hammer & Sickle like the Izhevsk model, has plain smaller numbers under it for the date like a Hungarian model, under that it has a BExxxx serial number also like the Hungarian model but there's nothing between the date and serial number like the Izhevsk model, under the serial number it that triangle looking mark like the Izhevsk model. It can't be Hungarian because they date stamp is 1942 which also fits into the correct year for a Izhevsk model. All the serial numbers on the rifle match so I doubt the parts are mixed up. Very strange but hey, it shoots great and is in outstanding condition. The numbers on the rear sight are still gold, that's how good a shape this rifle is in.

FieroCDSP
October 26, 2007, 06:46 AM
I just picked up a '43 Izhevsk 91/30 for $59 bucks. While not immaculant, the bore looks like it's almost entirely free of pitting and the rifling is strong. The stock has a few marks, and the reciever top has a really rough texture, almost like they were in a hurry and didn't smooth it perfectly round. There's a couple minor details on the stock that are odd. The front sling hole only has a metal piece on the bottom of the hole, instead of all around, and the rear has no metal. The rifle numbers all match, but the accessories are the standard mix ups. Did I get a good deal? :evil:

ArchAngelCD
October 26, 2007, 04:14 PM
FieroCDSP,
I paid $96 OTD for my rifle, I would say you did well. Even though I like the idea the rifle looks good for it's age all that really mattered to me was the bore. Like your's the bore in my rifle is in great shape.

Cosmoline
October 26, 2007, 04:35 PM
If you want a Mosin with maximum battle action, get a pre-war Finn. These are mostly M-27's, M-28's and M28/30's, with a mix of early model M-91's as well. When Finland felt the Red Army's hammerstroke in 1939 they had to call up every possible asset, including pretty much every Mosin in the country. A very large percentage saw action from what I've seen, and many have notches and other trench art showing time at the front.

When you get into the M-39's, M-30's and late model M-91's you're moving into the Continuation War and the Lappland War, by which time the arsenals were much better equipped and there was less reliance on the bolt action rifle. This is one reason why so many are in near mint condition. Also, some were made as late as the 1970's.

Among the Soviets, the best bet is a pre-war 91/30 or converted Dragoon. Most of these were rearsenaled but I've found some that weren't. Like the Finns the Soviets relied most on their bolt rifles early in the war. By the later time period there was a much greater array of small arms to choose from including some really fine submachine guns. Many of the late model 91/30's seen less aggressive service. And they were pretty poorly made to boot.

The reason the 91/30 stops when the M-44 starts is because the M-44 was never intended as a carbine like the M-38. It was designed from the getgo as a replacement for the 91/30. Though of course the SKS-45 and AK-47 came along to take up the main role as frontline rifle shortly thereafter.

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