Compact 1911 For Carry


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Arsyx
October 26, 2007, 06:14 PM
Just recently I was able to get my hands on a Colt Defender, I'm already a 1911 fan so I was pretty sold on this compact, espicially the grips and the fact it has full capacity. So, I've decided that during summer and spring I am going to find a way to CCW with a compact 1911 either the Defender or some other company (after I put those grips on it ha)

My question is, do you guys believe these compact 1911's are dependable? Would you ever trust your life with one of them over another compact?

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armed85
October 26, 2007, 07:07 PM
The .45 ACP cartridge and the 1911 were both designed for or with a 5" barrel. The .45 ACP is a low velocity cartridge. You'll have an even lower velocity (due to it having a 3" barrel) and high recoiling weapon that is heavy.

I do love the 1911. I have owned several including Colts. Colt makes a very good gun, but I personally would rather have a 9mm or .40 S&W when I'm looking towards the compact gun with a barrel less than 4".

I would look towards the Glock 26, Glock 27, Springfield XD Compact, Smith & Wesson M&P Compact, etc. The Springfield EMP is interesting and in a cartridge that makes more sense (9mm or .40 S&W).

The 1911 wasn't designed to be a compact gun. While it might work, it's not ideal. There are better designed compact guns around.

Pendragon
October 26, 2007, 07:12 PM
I owned a Colt Defender for about a year.

I really, really wanted to like the gun, but I could never trust it. It could be that I had a lemon, but I tried everything that was reasonable to try (mags, ammo, cleaning, etc) to no avail.

My advice is to put a LOT of ammo through it before you trust it. Mine was experiencing something like a 5% failure - mostly failures to eject and feed properly but you were lucky to get through a whole mag without an issue.

Mad Magyar
October 26, 2007, 07:19 PM
do you guys believe these compact 1911's are dependable? Would you ever trust your life with one of them over another compact?

Absolutely, in my case the Colt Officer's model, not the lightweight model. It was n.i.b. some months ago and with 700+ rds in JHP's & FMJ; not one FTE or FTF...I'm taking it out weekly these days in preparation for a winter carry in a shoulder rig...If it fails even once on the range; I will definitely not carry it....That's the way it is with me....:rolleyes:
I've heard all the arguements concerning the short-slide cycle but I'm convinced if you keep your weapon in tip-top shape, aka "maintenance": not too concerned....:)
Well lubed, wet, along with clean mags, seems to be the answer for my 1911 guns.

Would I trust either 3" 1911 CCW with my life..? Yes, now that I know they are cleaned-properly and well lubed, wet.


My sentiments also....

CWL
October 26, 2007, 07:26 PM
It really depends on your particlar pistol. They usually are either rock-solid or unreliable. Test fire that pistol 200-500 rounds to determine how reliable it is, also number and keep track of all the magazines you plan on using.

For a "shorty" barrel, you should consider either 185gr or 200gr JHP ammo for better velocities.

YosemiteSam357
October 26, 2007, 07:31 PM
The 1911 was designed with a 5" barrel and the appropriate length slide. Anything else is a variation on the design and needs to be "made to work" somehow. Sometimes it's successful, sometimes not. And it often depends on the individual gun and how it's fitted. I've heard of $3500 Wilsons that didn't run right out of the factory. As well as $700 "normal" guns that did. It's a bit of a crap shoot, to me.

And I own both an Officer's sized gun (3.5") and a Combat Commander (4.25"). The latter was the first "alternate" length 1911 pattern gun offered, and for that they had to lower the ejection port to make it work correctly. The Officers guns use both a lowered port and a ramped bull barrel. The 3" micros require even more hacks to make them work right.

I've heard more complaints about shorter length 1911s than any other platform. 'Course, that could be due to the surge in popularity 1911s saw over the last few years. Check out 1911Forum.com.

I'm sure others will cut my opinions to ribbons, but there you go.

-- Sam

Lonestar49
October 26, 2007, 08:05 PM
...

My Defender had 8 FTF's in her first 575 rounds. Simple, quick, cycling of the slide cleared the failed feed, and continued to empty the mag. It was 1 failure per magazine each time, when she did cough.

So, I then cleaned and lubed the mags with EEZOX, both factory mags and both Wilson Combat mags and only had 1 FTF thru 645 rounds.

Then I sent 1911Tuner a PM and he had 2 suggestions, to which, I tried the first and easiest, make sure she is WET, well lubed on the rails and guides, along with the mags clean, as he stated, "it's a timing issue".. and they cough if not cycling pure..

So, in my use of "less is more" with gun oil, in general, for the 1911's, be it the Defender or the EMP 9mm, I make sure they are both WET.. and have had NO failures with the Defender since, thru 800 rounds, including 20 rounds of 180gr JHP with no problems. And, 2 magazines of 230gr FMJ, one-handed shots, with NO issues..

The EMP 9mm has gone 550 rounds with no failures..

Well lubed, wet, along with clean mags, seems to be the answer for my 1911 guns.

Would I trust either 3" 1911 CCW with my life..? Yes, now that I know they are cleaned-properly and well lubed, wet.


Ls

Arsyx
October 26, 2007, 08:09 PM
Lonestar, how often do you usually strip the compact .45 and re-lube it now?

Dustinthewind
October 26, 2007, 08:18 PM
Arsyx
Congrat's on the Defender purchase, I am sure that you will love it. Mine has been excellent. I carry mine in a Bianchi IWB holster when I carry it. Most of the time I carry a Springer Micro compact, same size as the Defender. Out of the two guns the Colt is the better of the two in the accuracy department. I carry the Springfield over the Colt for one reason, it is cheaper to replace.
I have heard horror stories of bobbed down 1911's but I have not experienced any. The 3 inch barrel will give you about 60 fps less than a 5 inch barrel according to my chrony. I haven't found recoil to be a problem with the smaller guns either. As far as having to have a ramped barrel and lowered and flared ejection port, all of which the Defender has, to function properly, I say Bunk! My Springfield Micro is pure G.I., no ramped barrel or flared ejection port and it functions fine.
Would I trust my life with these small 1911's, yes. Are there better guns out there for carrying, I don't know. I prefer these and that is enough for me.

glockman19
October 26, 2007, 08:21 PM
I carry a Kimber Ultra model.

Car Knocker
October 26, 2007, 08:36 PM
My Kimber UC is coming up on 3,000 rounds without a malfunction.

TheReeves
October 26, 2007, 08:38 PM
I carry a Defender that is 2000 rounds old. The only jams I ever experienced were with shorter length HPs, Speer Gold Dots mainly. I did polish the ramp though.

Lonestar49
October 26, 2007, 08:44 PM
Quote: Lonestar, how often do you usually strip the compact .45 and re-lube it now?
----------
...

Once you get past the second disassembly, and reassembly, it's all downhill (easy) from there.. :)

I usually, with either of my 45's, go thru only 50 - 100 rounds per range visit with them, and 200 rounds of either 9mm or 40cal, depending on which gun I take with either of my 45's, and walk out of a war zone.. lol

So, with the Defender, I do a complete disassembly and clean at around the 250 round mark, which I keep records of all shots of all my guns.

I use EEZOX for light cleaning and with a bore-snake on all my guns in-between, along with just before heading to the range, I add a tad of gun oil via the vertical method, slide locked open, and let gravity take it down for a min, then cycle the slide/s 4-5 times, and your/I'm good to go..

This, along with using EEZOX on a Q-tip to clean the feed ramps, etc., and the tops and insides of mags, to get out any powder residue, by using a pencil, eraser end, and push down the mag springs to get to all the walls with the Q-tip..

It all has been working, no issues.. and both my 45 and 9mm 1911's have been to the range twice, in the last month, and are at 155 rounds, and *400 rounds respectively, at 100%, as of this moment.

*The EMP 9mm is far more forgiving IMHO, and falls into the 500 round max, before total disassembly in my book, if I don't clean them both at the same time FYI.


Ls

Arsyx
October 26, 2007, 08:58 PM
Would it be possible to find Eezox at the store? If not, do you know of any really similar lubes?

Lonestar49
October 26, 2007, 09:34 PM
...

Should be in local gun shops, call around. Or you can get some online somewhere, and well worth it IMHO. Others say CLP is as good, but from all my talks, EEZOX and CLP are not the same, nor does CLP bond to the metal as EEZOX (a spray-on) synthetic gun lube and "light cleaner" in one. It's on the can, directions, use very little.. really. A 7 oz can goes a long ways, and I always have 2 cans on hand.. lol. About 12 bucks for a 7oz can.

Worth the hunt to get some, and again, a little goes a loooooooong ways, and in this case, less IS more.. It bonds/drys to metal, making for a final barrier of metal to metal friction IF one's oil gets hot and evaporates, you have what I deem, a back-up of lube, dried on, adheres to, and in the pours of, any metal.. good stuff, especially for the interior walls of one's magazines, being a dry lubricant, attracts no dust or powder residue, yet makes metal to metal contact slippery.

Protects from rust, etc., all on the cans directions.. lol

But many swear by CLP as well, so that would be a good second "quick choice" if you find it hard to find some EEZOX.


Ls

Dustinthewind
October 26, 2007, 09:39 PM
I use Break-Free CLP, out of the squeeze bottle, not the aerosol on mine. As for cleaning the mag's I use an air blower at 120 psi.

pogo2
October 26, 2007, 10:02 PM
My question is, do you guys believe these compact 1911's are dependable? Would you ever trust your life with one of them over another compact?

I trust my Colt Defender after 600 rounds without a problem. Like others above, I also keep it clean and lubed, cleaning it thoroughly after each range session and putting Rem Oil on the rails and barrel. I use the 185 grain Remington Golden Sabers (standard pressure) for defense, which comes out of the 3 inch barrel at about 950 fps. The gun conceals very easily, especially with the thin grip panels installed.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/ColtDefender33.jpg

Arsyx
October 26, 2007, 10:35 PM
I love the grips so much I don't think I could ever get rid of them lol.

Also, I notice Eezox sells a "drip" style bottle too. Is this the same stuff? Would seem easier to use in the home and all.

MICHAEL T
October 27, 2007, 12:01 AM
I trust my Defender , my Officer and the one that started it all The Detonic Combat Master I carry one of the 3 every day. All work fine. I use Corbon 185gr DPX +P In Defender recoil no worst than 5" with 230. Likewise with other 2
Its time this under 4" not relieable gets put to rest At least as far as Colts and Kimbers go. They see to know what their doing. and 185 or 200gr puts the FPS back in bullet + a little more
I looking at a used Defender to add to the growing compact list.

MICHAEL T
October 27, 2007, 12:07 AM
double post sorry

S&Wfan
October 27, 2007, 12:18 AM
I have a very reliable 3" barrelled Kimber Ultra CDP . . . a first year, "first generation" model that's about 8 years old now I figure. The night sights are starting to get a little dim but she still shoots great and it goes bang every time.

Yep . . . I have no problem at all trusting my life to this fine little CCW .45ACP!
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/246/246167/folders/233364/2068138ULTRA.jpg


T.

Lonestar49
October 27, 2007, 01:13 AM
Quote: **love the grips so much I don't think I could ever get rid of them lol.

Also, I notice Eezox sells a "drip" style bottle too. Is this the same stuff? Would seem easier to use in the home and all.
---------------
...

Sure, less overspary, less smell.. I would go for drip over spray can..

**These grips?

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture214-1.jpg

Ls

Ala Dan
October 27, 2007, 08:26 AM
My 3" Kimber Stainless Ultra Carry weighs but 25 ozs (unloaded), and is
far from heavy, as Ragsdale 45 claims in the above post~! As a matter
of fact, its my daily CCW piece 90% of the time~! :cool: ;) :D

JohnnyBravo
October 27, 2007, 10:00 AM
do you guys believe these compact 1911's are dependable?

Each one is a law unto itself, but on the whole they seem to be less dependable that the larger guns.

GunNut
October 27, 2007, 01:05 PM
Like has been said above, it really depends on the gun and what efforts you are willing to take to ensure it works.

Just like any gun they need to be shot to see if they work correctly.

armed85
October 27, 2007, 01:35 PM
I stand corrected. I forgot that the Defender has an aluminum frame.

I have an M&P Compact .40 S&W that I'm on the fence with. I've been trying to sell it because I don't like the felt recoil. The felt recoil from my all-steel 5" 1911 is not a problem at all, so I'm starting to think that I wont like the felt recoil from any compact gun that fires a .40 or .45 caliber bullet.

I should have pointed out that all the guns I recommended, with the exception of the EMP, are "cut down" or "chopped" variations of full size guns. The Glock 26 is a chopped Glock 17. The Springfield XD Compact is a chopped XD and my M&P Compact is a chopped M&P.

Thinking about it more the Defender should, in theory, be just as capable of the same reliability as other compact guns. With the exception of guns like the EMP, most of the compacts are chopped full size guns.

I might pick up a Defender myself in my ongoing, perhaps never ending, search for the perfect CCW.

How does the felt recoil from the lighter weight bullets (160 to 185 gr.) feel in the Defender or equivalent chopped aluminum framed 1911? Standard pressure 185 gr. Golden Sabers and standard pressure Cor-Bon DPX 160 gr. seem interesting.

Dustinthewind
October 27, 2007, 03:07 PM
Ragsdale45

I usually shoot 230 grainers in my .45's, I carry 230 gr Gold Dot's in mine all the time. 160 or 180 grainers kick less of course. I can understand your complaint on the .40 S&W especially in a polymer framed gun. The .40 kicks like a .45 with the snappiness of a 9mm. There seems to be an abundance of small .40 cal polymer framed guns that are slightly used and up for sale. My friend has an XD micro .40 that he is wanting to part with because of the recoil. He has shot my mini .45's on numerous occasions an likes them.

Lonestar49
October 27, 2007, 03:54 PM
Quote: The .40 kicks like a .45 with the snappiness of a 9mm. There seems to be an abundance of small .40 cal polymer framed guns that are slightly used and up for sale.
------------
...

I have to agree, as IMHO, it's all in "The Grips" and 40cal demands the best, IMHO, and is the least forgiving of either 9mm or 45cal.

Having shot a SC (IIRC) HK 45 with a double stack mag load of 10+1 and very small grips, yet, very comfy IMO, to shoot, along with accuracy with quick follow-up shots. And this same person, who wanted to see my Colt Defender, and of course, I returned the favor of letting him have 2 mags of 7 rounds to shoot, with it, took 2 slow shots to find home, then proceeded to shoot it as it is, a tack driver, and he then shot the last mag at distance, 64ft and just enlarged a 3" bulls eye from the center out.. And that was with 230gr Winchester wb new ammo.

IMHO, each, any gun, is a matter of adaption for the shooter, and some can adapt to various guns, calibers, sizes, etc., and some are more limited.

I found, from the beginning, with the Defender, to be a very comfy, accurate, shooter, along with, the lighter weight being no different in recoil than a 4" heavier Commander, or my full size Sig P220 IMHO.

IMHO, again, it's in the guns grip, and the shooters grip, how a gun will work, feel, or not work, along with from what I have experienced, shooting heavier weight bullets produce less snap, than the 180gr JHP's, but that difference to me is minimal, and feels so close to 230gr FMJ ammo, as opposed to both the 165gr and lighter 45 JHP's I have tried and found, felt, with more V, more snap, less accuracy, with quick follow-up shots.

But, that is just me, and as mentioned, each gun, each grip, each ammo, one uses, will have good or bad effects and the balance between what range ammo one uses, with accuracy, should be somewhat close in weight and V, as one's HD/SD JHP ammo, to remain what I deem, staying current with ones guns and his or her, HD/SD ammo choices.

That's what each gun I own has taught me, along with the owners manuals, saying you can use +P ammo, or Not too, (if you want your gun to last) along with, a lot of "great advise" from many, far more experienced shooters, within this forum, have "shared" with me and so many others, as opposed to the many "lectures" of "only this, or only that gun, ammo," etc., for myself, and many others, to make a far better, more educated, decision, or path, to try.

Variety and adaptation, and knowing ones limits, is a beautiful thing.


Ls

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