[Quoheleth]

I was checking out the Alliant website this morning as I go back & forth between trying Unique or Bullseye for my next powder purchase (I am looking for good .38 and .45 target loads, for which Bullseye is supposedly "unsurpassed") and I saw American Select. It claims it has "less felt recoil."

Two questions:
* Less than what? Full-house loads? That's a duh. Seriously - how do they prove such a qualitative statement?
* And two, if that is true, how much less recoil is felt? Is it significant or is it just a marketing gimmic?

Anyone use it? Like it/dislike it for my stated purpose? Or am I better off with Unique or Bullseye?

Thanks,
Q

[zxcvbob]

I bought some American Select powder to use for HD and for .38 SPL target loads, but the muzzle flash was too bright. It does burn incredibly clean; I shot a box of .38's using AS and 125 grain copper-plated bullets and the gun looked unfired afterwards.

I should try it again with cast bullets and see how it works since I still have almost a whole pound of it...

The best target load I've found for my model 15-4 is 4.0 grains of Red Dot with Berry's 125 grain hollow points. (this is a maximum load.) They are more accurate than wadcutters.

[Sunray]

Felt recoil is simple physics. The force going backwards is equal to that going forward. Higher velocities will give more felt recoil. As will heavier bullets. Just changing the powder shouldn't make a lick of difference. Unless it radically increases the pressures.
The 'standard' .38 Special target load for eons has been 2.5 to 2.8 grains of Bullseye with a 148 grain cast or swaged WC.
For the .45, 4.5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 grain cast RN or FP bullet works extremely well out of my Colt. The felt recoil with either calibre using these loads is next to nothing. You may need to change the recoil spring in your pistol for target loads though.

[RecoilRob]

In recoil calculations, the powder charge must be factored in as its' mass is also accelerated down the barrel.

But, in pistol rounds....especially 38 and 45's..the difference in weight is only about a grain. So, I'd have a hard time believing that anyone could feel the difference.

My powder measure doesn't like the large flake powders like Bullseye or Unique and will show some variance in the weights thrown. It is dead nuts every throw with WW231 so that is what I use for most pistol ammo.

[jibjab]

I find the faster the powder the recoil seems sharper, and the slower the powder the recoil is softer or slowed down, given the same velocity and bullet weight.

[Quoheleth]

Felt recoil is simple physics. The force going backwards is equal to that going forward. Higher velocities will give more felt recoil. As will heavier bullets. Just changing the powder shouldn't make a lick of difference. Unless it radically increases the pressures.


Right - this is why the statement didn't make a lick of sense. Unless you alter the rest of the load (particularly bullet weight) I didn't see how it could make a difference.

The faster/slower powder does seem to be as good a theory as any.

Thanks for the thoughts...
Q

[JDGray]

I worked up some loads for my 9mm, using Clays and HS6. My 8yr old Son at the time,liked the Clays powder better. You really could feel the lighter recoil. To my amazement, both loads shot 1050 fps over a chrono:confused::)

[Walkalong]

I gave up on N340, even though it was accurate, because it produced more felt recoil for the velocities produced vs other good powders.

Clays has a rep for being "soft shooting" in the .45 ACP.

The amount used of one powder vs another powder also contributes to felt recoil.

[NVMM]

JDGray, Try Clays and a 147gr bullet in your 9mm.
You will be amazed at how light it feels.

[jfh]

I've been experimenting most of the summer with building "replica loads" for PD practice. There is no doubt that faster powders--231, Power Pistol--produce a sharper recoil than do 'slower' powders--AA#7, V.N350, for example.

Jim H.

[stubbicatt]

Most of the IPSC guys who shoot 40 do so with a heavy bullet and a light charge of fast burning powder to just make major power factor. The perceived recoil is less.

Aside from ejecta and simple physics is the "jet" effect of still burning or still expanding gasses as they leave the barrel. It is this "jet" effect which muzzle brakes or compensators are designed to alleviate. So, while the mass of ejecta is important, so too is the volume of still expanding gasses. If you use a fast for cartridge powder, and a heavier bullet, the perception is one of reduced recoil.

For comparison sake, take a lighter bullet and you will need to choose a different powder, with a higher volume of powder, to push that bullet to major power factor because you have to achieve higher velocities. The perception is one of greater recoil due to the "jet" effect.

Granted this is part of that particular game, and may not be generally applicable.

YMMV.

[fecmech]

Alliant's American Select was primarily a 12 ga target powder and a few years ago the "in" thing was slightly slower powders(as in slower than Red Dot) for 12 ga target loads. These powders "supposedly" lowered and spread the pressure peak out so that felt recoil was less. It was pure BS but one of those theorys that sounded right at the time. There are still a fair amount of shotgunners out there that believe it so you can get into some pretty heated discussions over it.

[Crazy4nitro]

Most of the IPSC guys who shoot 40 do so with a heavy bullet and a light charge of fast burning powder to just make major power factor. The perceived recoil is less.

I 100% agree in My experiance

I personally Like 3.6gr of Bullseye under a 158gr. Bullet for my .38

'Nitro

[Steve Koski]

I prefer 42 gr of H4227 in my heavy recoiling handgun loads.

Almost makes 550 power factor.

[JDGray]

JDGray, Try Clays and a 147gr bullet in your 9mm.
You will be amazed at how light it feels.

I never could find any load data for that combo. What manual are you using?

[SIRVEYR666]

I cannot find any info on clays either. I must admit, I haven't looked very hard though. I feel the ultimate 9mm load for new shooters (okay, it's for IDPA :rolleyes:) is 3.1 gr of Tite Group under a 147 FMJ. They are usually moving at a blistering 860 fps. Just fast enough to get through the cardboard, baby!:cool: