How long does a shotgun last?


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BridgeWalker
October 28, 2007, 12:03 AM
Yeah, so it can last several lifetimes, but if one is shooting a lot, they do get worn out, don't they?

So, how many round can I expect to put through my Benelli? And does it gradually start losing accuracy or velocity, or start jamming frequently, or some other problem? I know barrel wear impedes accuracy in a rifle, but in a shotgun, I could just replace the choke when it wears out, couldn't I?

If the chamber wears out, I could see that reducing velocity? I'm just guessing here. I have seen people refer to "shot out" shotguns.

I'm only doing about 200 rounds/week and cleaning on average every 500 rounds. Probably do a perfunctory cleaning every time I take it out in the winter, just to get rid of any accumulated moisture from condensation and such, but only a real thorough cleaning every 500-800 rounds.

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zinj
October 28, 2007, 12:46 AM
I have seen people refer to "shot out" shotguns.

First, many people will call a gun "shot out" when it just needs a small part or two replaced to start running again. The general concensus of a truly "shot out" gun is that the receiver has worn in some way to make the gun not function safely or at all.

It really depends on the design as to the service life of a gun. There are other factors too, like proper maintanence. That said:

There are 870's out there in IIRC police training programs that have over one MILLION rounds through them.

Most quality O/U shotguns need to have a new hinge pin bushing fitted every 40k-60k rounds, but provided this maintanence is done on schedule they should last forever.

There are competitors shooting Beretta 391s that have a couple of hundred thousand rounds through them and keep going.

I haven't really heard anything about the Nova, as they haven't been out for that long and aren't used in high volume shooting situations.

Shotgun barrels don't really wear like a rifle barrel does; for one thing the operate a pressure levels at least four times lower than the average centerfire rifle. I've heard stories of chokes getting flattened, but the only ones that I can find that have any creedence are with steel shot. There are fixed choke trap guns from decades ago that were shot quite a bit and still throw a tight pattern.

I'm only doing about 200 rounds/week and cleaning on average every 500 rounds. Probably do a perfunctory cleaning every time I take it out in the winter, just to get rid of any accumulated moisture from condensation and such, but only a real thorough cleaning every 500-800 rounds.

That cleaning regimen should be more than adequate for a pump, as long as you are protecting it from corrosion.

Pete409
October 28, 2007, 01:32 AM
Very, very few people will ever shoot a shotgun enough to "wear it out". Some shotguns may require some parts replacement due to wear or breakage at around the 10,000 to 12,000 round mark. Others may go 30,000 before any replacement of parts is needed.

By about 60,000 to 80,000 rounds most shotguns will require replacement of parts due to wear or breakage. Some may require numerous replacement of parts by this time.

From a financial perspective however, the cost of the shotgun is usually only a small fraction of the overall cost of shooting the gun. Ammo may cost about 20 cents per shell. Targets and shooting fees at ranges can add considerable cost also. So, by the time a person has shot a shotgun 80,000 rounds, he has probably spent $25,000 to $40,000 on shells, targets, and fees..... so why be concerned about a couple of thousand dollars for a new shotgun?

BridgeWalker
October 28, 2007, 01:41 AM
I'm not concerned about the cost! Heh, I'm currently exploring whole new levels of household economy so that I can shoot eight boxes of shells a week. I'm beginning to wish I'd taken up, oh, nearly any other sport...this is *expensive*!

No, I'm just curious. I've seen people refer to a shotgun as "probably shot out" with a round counts in the tens, rather than the hundreds, of thousands and was simply curious. :)

Thanks for the replies. Btw, I'm shooting a semi, not a pump.

zinj
October 28, 2007, 01:56 AM
No, I'm just curious. I've seen people refer to a shotgun as "probably shot out" with a round counts in the tens, rather than the hundreds, of thousands and was simply curious.

Depends on the gun. Many guns built using early aluminum receivers have a tendancy to warp. Also, many automatics will beat themselves to pieces if shot enough; even the most durable autos can get damaged if springs aren't replaced regularly, or if the gun isn't set up properly. Case in point: Remington 1100's will crack a receiver if the action spring isn't regularly replaced.

That said, most people will designate a gun "shot out" far before it really is.

Thanks for the replies. Btw, I'm shooting a semi, not a pump.

I guess I have the Nova on my brain. I haven't heard of any durability issues with Benellis, and they are the prefered guns on those high volume dove shooting expeditions in Argentina.

BridgeWalker
October 28, 2007, 01:59 AM
Also, many automatics will beat themselves to pieces, and even the most durable autos can get damaged if springs aren't replaced regularly, or if the gun isn't set up properly.

I've read about the A5 being especially finicky in this regard.

zinj
October 28, 2007, 02:04 AM
I've read about the A5 being especially finicky in this regard.

An Auto-5 will take a hell of a lot of abuse, but consistantly shooting heavy loads on the light load setting will crack the receiver. I wouldn't call them finicky though, shooting a heavy load on the light setting is probably going to do more damage to the shooter than the gun.

New_geezer
October 28, 2007, 11:33 AM
I heard it said it's easier (and more common) to neglect a shotgun to death than to shoot one to death.

It's hard to imagine actually wearing out a modern pump. There are pumps around a hundred years old still in service the only caveat to using them is no steel shot.

I think where you hear the "shot out" argument used most is with the double guns, especially O/Us which are preferred by many competitive shooters. And "shot out" usually just means it's cheaper to replace than repair. Competition shooters can can put a thousand or more rounds a week thru a gun. The internals and lock up of a double gun are more complex than a pump or most semis, the tolerances are usually tighter and the design is harder on the parts. To repair an older O/U, a gunsmith might need specific knowledge and even have to hand fabricate the parts. The receiver may have worn enough that it will no longer lock up tight even after replacing hinge pins. Even replacing standards parts in a modern O/U might require some tweaking by the gunsmith. There are a lot of inexpensive O/Us now available and the usual complaint heard is the internals are not finely finished and the metal is not top grade. These guns are made to a price point and are generally expected to last only so long before major repairs are due and you have to consider repair or replace. These guns are probably fine for seasonal hunters or other low - moderate use shooters but really wouldn't meet the needs of a serious competition shooter.

Howard Roark
October 28, 2007, 11:53 AM
The USAMU has a Perazzi MX8 that has over 1 million rounds throught it. Yes, It has been tightened up and repaired many times. Perazzi tried to trade them for a brand new one but Branham (the coach) would not do it.

rogdigity
October 28, 2007, 11:58 AM
i do have an old winchester model 37 i got from my dad. for being a single shot, this one sure has seen a lot of rounds. i used to put about 75-100 through a week for a long time. it still fires like the day it was made and when shooting with my dad hes told me before that it shoots more acurate than the day he got it now.

but also, i pick up his 12ga semi and make that one more accurate than the day he bought it...hehe

Kimber1911_06238
October 28, 2007, 12:00 PM
even if they are "shot out" usually a small number of parts and some handiwork is all that is required to get them booming again.

chemist308
October 28, 2007, 12:27 PM
Reference the Winchester Model 12...

ArmedBear
October 28, 2007, 12:49 PM
It's also possible to abuse a shotgun to death.

People slam their break-actions shut, for example. I'm not talking about a quick reload when the birds are flushing out like crazy, I'm talking about slamming the things shut as hard as they can before they call "pull" at the trap range. Do that sort of thing enough, and the gun will start to have problems while another gun, shot just as much, will be like new.

Auto-5's that are shot with really heavy loads while set up for really light ones have been known to blow themselves apart when fired. Happened twice at the range where I shoot. Pieces flying, no joke. Injuries to shooters. I don't like to shoot next to the things, if I don't know the shooter, or if I DO know that he or she is likely to do something dumb.

I have a BT-99 that was shot by an ATA competitor for probably 200,000 rounds, then sold to another guy who used it for Friday night games with REALLY heavy loads. It had to have metal built back up on the barrel lug with a torch, then machined back into shape, it had been shot so loose. But it works well now.

Bottom line? YOU can buy a quality new gun, maintain it, and shoot it for a lifetime, but you can't always trust a gun you buy from some idiot or slob. You can get a good deal, or you can waste your money. I'm learning what to look for; if it's your first used shotgun, try and find an expert who will help you inspect it before buying -- preferably someone with gunsmithing, shooting and machining experience.

As far as this "low volume hunter" stuff, I suppose people have a point. If you know you will abuse a gun because of the conditions it's used in, hell, buy a cheap junk gun and shoot it until it breaks.

However, other shotgunners know which guns these are, so don't plan on any resale value. Just plan on shooting them until they die. Understand what you're not getting for your money.

collector14
October 28, 2007, 12:52 PM
There are fixed choke trap guns from decades ago that were shot quite a bit and still throw a tight pattern.


I can testify to that zinj. I've owned two, an Ithaca and a Parker that I know were used regularly for almost 100 years. The Parker is on the list of Why Did I Sell That Gun and I wish I had it back.

I shoot at "Turkey Shoots" in the Fall, paper targets at 90 feet. I got the Parker in a trade, wasn't really into SxS and priced it to a guy that took me up on it.

Back on subject, there is a lot of good info posted here, but nobody has mentioned a gun that some idiot shot a slug through. I thought that might be what delta9's term "shot out" might refer to.

New_geezer
October 28, 2007, 02:33 PM
As far as this "low volume hunter" stuff, I suppose people have a point. If you know you will abuse a gun because of the conditions it's used in, hell, buy a cheap junk gun and shoot it until it breaks.

However, other shotgunners know which guns these are, so don't plan on any resale value. Just plan on shooting them until they die. Understand what you're not getting for your money.


That's pretty much the point I was making. So many people see these inexpensive O/Us and think they'll stand up to high volume competitive shooting. But depending on how the gun will be used and how much, then there can be a decent argument for getting one.

Though as someone once pointed out, when you come right down to it, an 870 is actually as much shotgun as most of us actually need. What we end up buying depends on a multitude of factors, not all of them logic based.

rcmodel
October 28, 2007, 03:12 PM
Auto-5's that are shot with really heavy loads while set up for really light ones have been known to blow themselves apart when fired.
That's crazy talk right there!
If you saw two A-5 Brownings blow themselves apart, you saw two fools shooting unsafe / over-pressure reloads of some kind.

At the worst, an A-5 or model 11 Remington will eventually crack the forearm, followed by a cracked receiver, if fired for years with factory loaded heavy field or magnum hunting loads while set up for light target loads.

They do not just "blow themselves apart" unless someone slips them a double charged reload, or a massive load mistakenly charged with Bullseye Pistol Powder or something.

In over 50 years of shooting, I have only seen one A-5 damaged beyond repair.
It was run over by a Tractor & Brush-Hog!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Pete409
October 28, 2007, 05:03 PM
"Back on subject, there is a lot of good info posted here, but nobody has mentioned a gun that some idiot shot a slug through. I thought that might be what delta9's term "shot out" might refer to."


Shooting a slug through a shotgun in good condition shouldn't harm it at all. I've got a 12 gauge unfired slug in front of me now. It measures .685" on top of the soft "rifled" ridges.

A 12 gauge with a standard .729" bore and a full choke (.040") would measure .689" at its tightest point which is still bigger than the slug. Even if the choke were a few thousandths smaller than the slug, the slug is very soft lead and the ridges could easily deform a little and squeeze into the valleys beside the ridges.

There have been many slugs shot through old tight choked guns with no harm done.

Pete409
October 28, 2007, 05:08 PM
"That's crazy talk right there!
If you saw two A-5 Brownings blow themselves apart, you saw two fools shooting unsafe / over-pressure reloads of some kind."

I would call it "misinformed talk". Shooting a heavy load in a Browning A-5 with the gun set on light loads will, at most, cause it to wear out quicker or break some part quicker. In no way is it going to cause the gun to blow up.

rcmodel
October 28, 2007, 05:25 PM
Shooting a slug through a shotgun in good condition shouldn't harm it at all. I've got a 12 gauge unfired slug in front of me now. It measures .685" on top of the soft "rifled" ridges.Shooting Forster type rifled slugs through any degree of choke will not hurt the gun in the slightest.

Not only that, but a hollow-base soft lead Forster type slug is no harder, if as hard, as a shot charge of normal bird-shot when it hits the choke.
It wouldn't matter, even if it started out over bore size.

A tightly compressed load of shot has no more "give" to it, except through pellet deformation.
A pure lead rifled slug can easily expand to fit the bore then squeeze back down when it gets to the choke constriction.

If it did harm, or even could harm any choke, ammo manufactures wouldn't even sell them.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

collector14
October 28, 2007, 06:37 PM
I think the impact of a slug on the choke at velocities around 1500 feet per second could stretch the barrel with repeated firings. I don't shoot slugs and will be the first to admit that I have little knowledge about it, but here is a quote from ...

Warning from the Instructions Manual with a new shotgun: On fixed choke guns, slugs may be fired in only IC and Cylinder barrels. DO NOT fire slugs in fixed choke barrels with Modified, Improved Modified or Fullchokes.

zinj
October 28, 2007, 06:42 PM
As others have said, shot loads are hitting the choke at the same velocity, including stuff like steel which is harder than lead. I'd say that the warning in the instruction manual is the same CYA stuff as "Shooting Reloaded Ammunition Voids the Manufacturer's Warantee."

New_geezer
October 28, 2007, 07:09 PM
The thing with steel shot is, a load doesn't compress or deform like lead shot. The usual advice is - if you shoot Full choke w/ lead, shoot Mod with steel. Basically use a 1 step more open choke.

Capstick1
October 28, 2007, 07:39 PM
I purchased a slightly used "Light Twelve" at a pawn shop. This gun had a polychoked barrel on it and it was set for the "Light" loads. The friction disc was in the back of the spring directly against the reciever. After about 600 rds of 1 1/8 oz trap loads fired in trap the original wood forend started to get a hairline crack in it. That was the only wear and tear that I noticed on it. I've since replaced the wood furniture with an ugly but very durable Bell and Carlson Carbellite stock set. I think that this will be the last stockset that I ever have to buy for this shotgun. I also have a spare set of springs, friction ring and brass collar available in the event I wear out these parts. I really like this shotgun and plan on keeping this as my designated all around trap and skeet gun.

Dave McCracken
October 28, 2007, 10:39 PM
Anecdotal testimony is always suspect, but I've heard the 250K number for 870s so many times from diverse sources I believe it.

And I believe a retired Marine noncom not given to hyberbole when he tells me he's put 230K rounds through his Model 12. He has replaced some springs and there's not much takeup left in the adjustment thingie.

And I believe Will Fennell when he says that a 686 Beretta goes 50k loads a year sans burpsnglitches indefinitely.

I do not believe that the average imported double selling for less than a Grand will last like the above. Whether or not a lesser price is worth less of a working life is something each of us should decide on our own.

Dave McCracken
October 28, 2007, 10:41 PM
Oooops, double tap....

Pete409
October 28, 2007, 11:16 PM
"And I believe Will Fennell when he says that a 686 Beretta goes 50k loads a year sans burpsnglitches indefinitely."

Some statements have to be taken with a grain of salt. Will is a nice guy and I don't think he would purposely mislead someone, but "indefinitely" is a long time.

The Beretta 686 is a quality built gun, but it is subject to wear just like any other gun. In fact, on the Beretta 600 Series guns, the locking lugs have to be replaced more often than on some similar priced guns (such as a Browning Citori).

The reason for this is that the locking lugs which are round pins tend to wear an oblong recess in their mating holes. It's not a major job to replace these locking pin recesses, but still it is something that has to be done from time to time with frequent shooting.

ArmedBear
October 29, 2007, 02:29 PM
I would call it "misinformed talk". Shooting a heavy load in a Browning A-5 with the gun set on light loads will, at most, cause it to wear out quicker or break some part quicker. In no way is it going to cause the gun to blow up.

It's not misinformed. It's real.

Now granted, this is a REALLY heavy load. An unsafe load. A stupid heavy load, put together by a handloader who was either drunk, stupid, or both. I never said the barrel exploded, either.

However, this same thing does not happen to other guns. More like, "Oh, ****! What was that?!?" when the gun recoils like a cannon.

And it doesn't happen to MY handloads, which I make carefully, and sober.

Misinformed it is not.

Shotguns are proofed high enough that the barrel doesn't blow up; most guns hold together even if there is some damage to the receiver. I'm not too worried if I'm standing next to someone with an 870, BT-99, etc. But I stay away from sloppy reloaders with Auto-5's.

What I said was, a shotgun that is treated well can last a long, long time, but one that is treated sloppily or stupidly can be trashed quickly. I stand by that, as would anyone with knowledge of the things.

Pete409
October 29, 2007, 04:27 PM
Armed Bear,

What you said (in your first post which is what I was responding to) is "Auto-5's that are shot with really heavy loads while set up for really light ones have been known to blow themselves apart when fired. Happened twice at the range where I shoot. Pieces flying, no joke. Injuries to shooters."

There is a difference between a "really heavy load" and an unsafe overload. Also, you said "Pieces flying... Injuries to shooters". That's not a "really heavy load", that's an unsafe overload.

In your second post, you made another incorrect statement, to wit "Shotguns are proofed high enough that the barrel doesn't blow up." The barrel may not blow up EVERY time there is severe gun damage, but they definitely blow up SOMETIMES. I have personally seen guns in which the barrel peeled apart like a banana. Besides, in your first post, you didn't say WHICH pieces went flying.

I stand by my statement that a "really heavy load" doesn't cause guns to blow themselves apart...... even if shot in an A-5 which is set on the light setting.

zinj
October 29, 2007, 04:27 PM
I fail to understand how an Auto-5 is different from any other modern pump or automatic. The vast majority of them share the same locking mechanism (a tilting lug that locks into the barrel extension). What makes an Auto-5 explode when a Remington 1100 won't?

ArmedBear
October 29, 2007, 06:00 PM
An Auto 5 may have the same lug, but the gun works differently. The whole barrel slams backward when it recoils. The barrel has a LOT more momentum than a Benelli's bolt has. The barrel is not held rigidly in the frame like an 1100's. So the Auto 5 blows apart more easily. At the shotgun range, a lot of people shoot reloads, and some of them are sloppy.

In your second post, you made another incorrect statement, to wit

I didn't say that the barrel of a shotgun will never blow up, no matter what you do. I assumed that people know that; of course you know that. Maybe that was a bad assumption, so...

Let me be perfectly clear and state this again for those who want to argue for the sake of argument:

Accidental multiple shots of powder in a handloaded round can blow an Auto 5 apart. The minimum charge it takes to do that will not blow an 870 apart and will not blow a BT-99 apart -- damage the gun, perhaps, but I don't care if a gun next to me is damaged as long as it doesn't throw anything my way. And it may not even cause damage to those guns if you don't do it often. The Auto 5 design includes a barrel that moves freely back and forth in the receiver. It's not a rigid design, and moving parts sure do act differently from rigidly-held steel when overstressed.

While you won't find rounds like that at Wal-Mart, you will find too many of them at some clays ranges. They may be unsafe, but they're not uncommon, at least not as uncommon as they should be.

A double shot of powder in a handloaded round is generally not sufficient to exceed proof pressure of the barrel. Therefore the barrel does not explode. Of course, any barrel CAN explode with enough overpressure. I hope everyone understands that.

Most barrel explosions are caused by barrel obstructions. This, of course, can happen with any shotgun, any charge, any design. It is also possible to blow up a barrel with a heavy load, but that's a whole other story. Some barrels have blown up over the years, to be sure. There have been flawed barrels and barrel designs from major companies, too.

mljdeckard
October 29, 2007, 06:17 PM
A million rds through an 870? I shall make it a life goal to find out.

My dad has two old Winchester '97s, one of which is a gorgeous old 12 ga, which he had restored, and it is is perfect. The other is one inherited from my grandfather, in 16 ga, which was nosed into the mud and discharges, hence it is a homemade sawed off, there is an 1" chip missing from the wood on the pump, and the whole thing could use a working-over by a good gunsmith. I think when I get home, I'll do some digging through the Brownell's catalog for a few parts, and make some appointments to have it running just as pretty and smooth as the 12. (It would be nice to have a 16 around to use.) How many rounds has it fired? There is absolutely no way of knowing, but it still works fine.

Jim Watson
October 29, 2007, 08:00 PM
While any good quality gun will go a long, long time with preventive maintenance and occasional repairs, the London Proof House had - may still have - a Boss double which had fired a documented one million shells with no repairs needed.

rcmodel
October 29, 2007, 09:19 PM
I just cleaned a Model 11 Remington (A-5 Browning in disguise) for a friend last week. It is skeet choked and U.S. marked with "Flaming Bombs" all over it.

In other words, it is probably a WWII airforce shotgun used to train new bomber machine-gun crews on how to hit moving targets.

The gun is at least 65 years old, and has had who knows how many thousands of rounds through it doing WWII training, plus a lot of bird shooting since then.

I could find no excessive parts wear, nothing needed replaced except the recoil spring, and it hadn't blown up with "Pieces flying... Injuries to shooters" yet!
It still works perfectly.

In fact, except for finish wear, and with a new recoil spring, it would be as good as the day it was made.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

throdgrain
October 29, 2007, 09:28 PM
I was shooting clays on sunday with a guy with a side by side shotgun muzzle loader. Worked fine too.

Look after your shotgun ,and it will look after you.

Dunno about the cleaning thing you guys are saying. I'd say clean the barrel of any shotgun after any shooting session,like it was a religion.

Shell Shucker
October 29, 2007, 10:30 PM
Action parts wear and guns can be shot to the point of being "loose". Barrels don't normally wear perceivably when shooting lead shot. As for the MILLION round/unrebuilt 870, ect, that's still tight enough that you can fire it w/o fear of a KABOOM......... I call BULL*****! Parts wear and 200,000 is a long way from a million, especially without some new parts.

ArmedBear
October 29, 2007, 10:52 PM
rcmodel, nobody ever said the things would fly apart under normal use, even long-term normal use.

What I wrote originally was that a shotgun can last a VERY long time in regular use, but that it could be easily ABused to death.

A BT, Citori or Superposed can be blasted looser than you've probably ever seen one. An 870's steel receiver can be cracked, though again, not everyone has ever seen it. There's no such thing as a shotgun that can't be destroyed by an idiot with overloaded ammo or a real slob. I never said the A5 was alone in this.

Now all of those guns listed -- some of the most durable factory guns past or present -- will last essentially forever if treated with any respect at all and used/maintained as intended. This isn't asking for much.

However, if you're buying a used gun, there are things you should know and look for.

mswestfall
October 29, 2007, 11:15 PM
I read about a third of the posts. So I hope I'm not repeating too much....

I bought a Citori three and a half years ago. People told me then that it would last about 100,000 rounds where a Kreigoff would last 300,000 to 500,000 rounds. These are two break action guns. I believe the comparison is relatively accurate. But the real question is what does it mean when you reach this 100k, 300k number. When they become "off-face", both can be re-faced (the plate of the gun that the firing pins poke thru and the top of the top barrel chamber). This process is relatively inexpensive; especially compared to the cost of a Kreigoff. I love my Citori so I would have it done.

I wore out the bottom firing pin and spring and cocking levers on my Citori after 21,000 rounds. Browning replaced them in less than an hour and a half at The big Trap Shoot two August's ago for $30.00. (Browning does this for so little money for Trap Shooters for obvious reasons.) The gun is as tight now at 30,756 rounds as it was when I bought it. I clean it every time I shoot it and I oil it before each day of shooting.

In some ways semi-autos are different. So are pumps. The bolt is probably one of the more expensive parts to replace. In either gun, you can get a receiver resurfaced. Which I would do to a favored gun. I suspect that a semi-auto will give out long before a pump. Barrels are inexpensively replaced in most modern day sub-$2,000 guns.

The bottom line is that if you like it enough to ware it out you will probably spend the money to rebuild it.

Shoot it. Clean it. Rebuild it. But most of all, enjoy it!

45auto
October 30, 2007, 08:06 AM
Overall, IMHO, shotguns are probably the most reliable, longest lasting firearms you can buy...good ones anyway!

Capstick1
October 30, 2007, 12:46 PM
When I was younger I reloaded my own shotshells for a while and there were a few times that I could've blown up one of my shotguns if myself or my father hadn't been paying attention with their ears. I've found that every once in a while you can fire a shell that may not quite have a full charge of powder. There could be some sticking in the powder charger or static electricity. It still happens though. What usually happens is you'll squeeze the trigger and the sound and recoil might feel "Softer" than normal. Take a minute and physically look down the inside of the barrel for any obstructions. The worst thing you can do is ignore this and try to fire another shell. You might have sent that shot down the barrel but the shot wad may still be stuck inside the barrel. Most shotgun shells have operating pressure of around 13-16000 cup. That may not sound like much compared to a 30-06 which operates at 50000 cup but when you consider how thin the walls are on most shotgun barrels it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that all that pressure going behind a plastic shot wad stuck in a barrel could easily turn the barrel into spaghetti. I've had this happen to me three times in my life and fortunately I was able to identify and remove the barrel obstruction before any additional shots were fired. If I hadn't done this it's possible I could be blind right now from the shrapnel hitting my eyes. This could happen with any shotgun whether you're shooting a pump, semi, O/U, or SxS. This is also one of the reasons why I don't shoot reloads in my shotguns anymore. The quality of the factory ammunition is alot safer and more consistant

Jim Watson
October 30, 2007, 01:10 PM
If you can't load good ammunition, you should stick to factory loads.
I have not stuck a wad in a shotgun or a bullet in a rifle or pistol, so I do not doubt the quality of my work. But I have only been reloading since 1970.

As far as patching up guns, one of out skeet shooters had his Krieghoff tightened up recently. It cost about $450 and they told him it could be kept running forever with that overhaul every several years as required.

ArmedBear
October 30, 2007, 01:30 PM
If you can't load good ammunition, you should stick to factory loads.

True enough.

But how does that wise tidbit help you if the guy next to you doesn't heed it?

I don't shoot reloads in my shotguns anymore.

Single stage reloaders are also a good thing, unless you get the really good quality, expensive progressives. Reloading perfect shells with a precise powder charge every time and no shot on the floor using a Sizemaster, provided you're sober, is easy enough. A cheaper progressive can be a whole different ballgame.

Jim Watson
October 30, 2007, 01:47 PM
If the guy on the next trap stand blows one up so hard that I get fragged, it just isn't my day. I know of no way to guard against that level of incompetence except by staying home. I have no control over anybody's work but my own.

My club had one guy who ruined three guns that I know of, but without hurting himself or anybody else.

Then there was the semi-literate loader who did not think the numbers on a powder can meant anything, if it said "rifle powder" that was good enough for him. No manual, he just filled them up. If they meant him to use less powder, they'd have made the cartridges smaller. He was on his third .300 Win Mag when the dealer realized the problem and would only sell him powder so slow that a case full was not an overload.

Shell Shucker
October 30, 2007, 11:23 PM
If you can't read a reloading manual......... You might be a Redneck! Famous last words of a Redneck, "Hey ya'll, watch this!". KABOOM!!!

RNB65
October 30, 2007, 11:37 PM
There could be some sticking in the powder charger or static electricity.

An anti-static dryer sheet in the powder bottle will prevent powder problems related to static cling. I reloaded shotshells for years with no powder issues.

Shell Shucker
October 31, 2007, 12:13 AM
I think that a dryer sheet IN the bottle would cause problems. I can't imagine that you simply "throw it in". How do you use it?
I've reloaded 10s of thousands of shotshells w/o powder charging problems of any kind (three Sizemasters and a 600jr).

RNB65
October 31, 2007, 12:32 AM
I can't imagine that you simply "throw it in". How do you use it?

Fold in half lengthwise then let it hang down from the plug end of the powder bottle with other end stopping just above where the powder goes out (Trim the width of the sheet to fit. A couple of inches will do.). I let one end of the sheet come out the plug hole in the bottle and tape it down, then insert the red plug. Doesn't interfere with power loading at all and completely solves the static problem.

Here's a description:

http://shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=84615&view=next&sid=01f61e5316fbe46ef8fa26cddb0ae313

Shell Shucker
October 31, 2007, 12:50 AM
Good link, thanks. I've never had a problem in the humid Midwest.

foghornl
October 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
The Browning A-5, and those 'made on the Browning Patent' such as the Rem 11 and "Sportsman" are recoil-operated...the whole bolt and barrel assemblys travel rearward to recock the hammer, extract/eject empty and chamber a fresh shell.

So, if the friction ring/recoil spring assembly is set for light loads, and a steady stream of heavy loads are used, yeah the forend wood cracks, and at some point, the receiver lets go. Seen it done ONCE. NOT pretty...saw the owner of a "Sweet 16" model A-5 sit down and cry....pulled the forend off, set for light loads...was using serious heavy #4 loads for ducks/geese.

When I pointed out the friction ring was set for light loads, he said "Why do I need to change that? I have shot this gun for 8 years without moving it"

Let me say that my reply was . . . . well, WAAAAAYYY below "The Low Road"

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