bear attacks in gun free utopia


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gunsmith
July 15, 2003, 05:56 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~181~1512164,00.html

It is illegal to bring a gun into a national park.
these guys did everything right,proper food storage etc,
yet the bear attacked.
No way for these young men to fight back.
this really stinks.
Whomever made this stupid rule should be made to hunt those bear
with a whistle and a pot to bang a lid on

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mete
July 15, 2003, 08:07 AM
Some years ago by far the biggest problem in the national parks was crime. That's when you really needed a gun. You were far more likely to be a crime victim than a bear victim.

El Tejon
July 15, 2003, 08:48 AM
No way to fight back? Just shoot the bear.:confused:

El Tejon, confused about Eloi and bears.

Art Eatman
July 15, 2003, 10:13 AM
"It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."--Old saying, usually attributed to an unknown LEO.

Art

El Tejon
July 15, 2003, 10:28 AM
Art, hmmm, true, but "tis better to live in a state that shot all its bears before the soccermommies and watermelons took over.":D

TallPine
July 15, 2003, 11:25 AM
I consider Yellowstone and Glacier parks to be like NY and DC - victim disarmament zones.

I don't go there - there are plenty of other nice places with fewer people, and no gun restrictions.

scottgun
July 15, 2003, 11:47 AM
hmm..., guns aren't allowed in the national parks, and yet the park ranger or police weren't there to protect them from an attacking bear. Makes me think that a each person should be responsible for their own safety and carry the proper tools to defend against an attack.

While it may be against the rules to pack back in bear country, I think it is crazy not to do so.

Sindawe
July 15, 2003, 01:21 PM
Yep, this is why I no longer camp or even day hike in Nat. Parks. No big loss really, since there are LOTS of lovely, isolated wild places outside of National Parks to camp. Places where there is just as much wildlife, breathtaking vistas and no hassles with being armed.

Cosmoline
July 15, 2003, 01:43 PM
The NPS is a para-military organization. One of the worst branches of the federal government. They have done horrible damage up here in Alaska, creating tame bears for the tourists, then herding all the idiots by in buses. Locals, in the mean time, are NOT welcome. You can't even set foot on their occupied territory without getting permission and filing a plan. If I were President, the first thing I'd do is shut them down and divide up their holdings.

I heard on the news that they're facing some serious budget cuts. This is a step in the right direction.

Dr.Rob
July 15, 2003, 01:53 PM
Heck bear sightings are rare in Rocky Mountain National Park and by the way there is NO LAW against carrying bear spray in the parks.

Be prepared.

Try to keep it gun related.

TallPine
July 15, 2003, 02:26 PM
Try to keep it gun related.

Ime gun shoot any bar wot chews on my hed

Cosmoline
July 15, 2003, 03:31 PM
They won't let you go armed, that's the relation to guns. Everything else I mentioned just reinforces the old belief that rulers who prohibit firearms are doing so for a reason. They want to make citizens into subjects, people into sheep, wilderness into zoos. Go into a national park at your own risk.

Drjones
July 15, 2003, 03:36 PM
I'm sorry if I sound like an insensitive jerk, but I cannot feel too much sympathy at all for them.

The concept of camping out in the woods without a firearm or three is so alien and unfathomable to me its not funny.

12 or 6. They chose poorly.

Kobun
July 15, 2003, 03:59 PM
In Kruger national park in South Africa you also can't carry.
So they put your gun in a brown paper bag and staple it together. Have to show the "seal" when you leave the park.
I was about to ask the gate keeper if "this is Kruger game park". :D
Went to another park in S.A. also, but all they said was: "Don't shoot the animals". :)
Like shooting an elephant with a G34 is an option... :p

winstonsmith
July 15, 2003, 04:08 PM
Guys, guys, obviously this is a falsified story. The park rangers would have been there to help them. Duh.

:rolleyes:

Malone LaVeigh
July 15, 2003, 04:14 PM
While I have the greatest sympathy for those young men, I have less for all of the whiners on this board. No guns is the deal in National Parks. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. There is far more land in Nat. Forest and BLM jurisdiction were you can carry till your heart's content.

The occasional bear mauling is unfortunate, but a small price to pay for having our parks degraded to the Disney experience some would seem to want.

El Tejon
July 15, 2003, 04:18 PM
Malone, animals over people???:eek: Never understood this Druid philosophy.:confused:

"No guns" is also the policy in that National Wilderness called Chicago. Didn't heed that policy either.:D

TallPine
July 15, 2003, 04:30 PM
Judged by twelve is better than eaten by one.

:D

Malone LaVeigh
July 15, 2003, 04:31 PM
The human herd is in no danger of extirpation in any range I know of. There ought to be a few places where the critters are favored. People can take their chances with the understanding of what they're getting into from the start.

I've camped in Rocky Mtn NP and all over the west, and rarely ever felt the need for a firearm.

willyjixx
July 15, 2003, 05:26 PM
i wonder what the fines would be compared to the medical cost an lost work is?

course since its federal land and a federal crime it is probably a felony.

TallPine
July 15, 2003, 05:45 PM
There ought to be a few places where the critters are favored. People can take their chances with the understanding of what they're getting into from the start.

So ... are NY and DC and Chicago etc "preserves" for criminals ????

:neener:

4v50 Gary
July 15, 2003, 06:15 PM
Tallpine - wuz a bar chawing on u when u typed dat? :D

Cosmoline
July 15, 2003, 06:25 PM
"The occasional bear mauling is unfortunate, but a small price to pay for having our parks degraded to the Disney experience some would seem to want."

I'm assuming this is sarcastic.

Malone LaVeigh
July 15, 2003, 07:39 PM
So ... are NY and DC and Chicago etc "preserves" for criminals ????It would seem.

I'm assuming this is sarcastic.Not in the least. For the same reason I don't need guardrails on wilderness trails.

Cosmoline
July 15, 2003, 07:52 PM
Well I am NOT OK with the NPS turning OUR wild lands into de facto theme parks. And I'm NOT OK with sheeple who want to drive through and see the tamed bears who've been conditioned not to fear humans. I cannot express how deeply I loath those people and what they have done to parts of this great state. Their crimes are monumental, and they will be made to pay in the life to come.

And (relating this back to guns) I think the whole thing is a PERFECT example of how firearm laws act as a gauge to determine the level of tyranny in a location. Look at airports, Chicago, New York City, National Parks, the UK, the Jim Crow south--all these places you will find bans on firearms AND repressive authorities treating humans like animals and adults like children.

spacemanspiff
July 15, 2003, 07:58 PM
last summer i was calling around to see what laws were regarding open carry in the state parks. oddly enough, you could open carry, but not conceal carry. and the only time you can discharge your weapon is if you are defending your life or someone elses.

scottgun
July 15, 2003, 08:01 PM
A bear's "rights" end where my skin begins. Someone would be foolish to go deep into the backcountry without proper protection, legal or not.

One could argue that we are invading their territory, we don't belong there, guess what, humans are there. I'm not going to sit around while a bear chews on my head.

People can take their chances with the understanding of what they're getting into from the start.

I'll limit my chances by being prepared.

Autolite
July 15, 2003, 08:15 PM
Presenting a gun during a bear encounter only increases the likehood of violence. Try to reason with the bear to avoid any escalation of tensions. Consider what would happen if the bear managed to take your gun away from you. Betcha you never thought about that ...

TallPine
July 15, 2003, 08:24 PM
Consider what would happen if the bear managed to take your gun away from you

That's why you always file off the front sight ... :D

Majic
July 16, 2003, 03:25 AM
The occasional bear mauling is unfortunate, but a small price to pay for having our parks degraded to the Disney experience some would seem to want.

That price might not be so small if you were the one being mauled.

Drjones
July 16, 2003, 01:43 PM
I think what Malone might have meant is that when people choose to act like communists and prohibit the carrying of arms, bear maulings is the price they are going to have to pay.

I would think and hope that Malone doesn't support such laws against the carrying of arms anywhere, including national parks. I believe he is merely pointing out that the idiots are reaping what they have sown.

As I said, I find it hard to sympathise for them at all, as a firearm would be the first thing I reached for when packing for anything resembling wilderness, laws be damned.

686+
July 16, 2003, 05:06 PM
So the carry in National Parks is prohibited? Is that open carry on trails? Does it apply to my tent too? Is Yosemite included in this?

:confused:

Can someone clarify this?

Zedicus
July 16, 2003, 05:32 PM
Good Question...

Since the Anti's Think that Guns are Evil Demonic pices of metal, that can kill people all on there own, Are they Now going to Push for the Banning of Bears since they can apparently do the same?:D

.........Or am I giving the Anti's a Idea.....:rolleyes:

Ex-Doc
July 16, 2003, 05:46 PM
I am not as scared of the bears, noise has always sent them running; but when i was in Yosemite a couple of years ago, visiting gang bangers shot up the snack bar for a few bucks! My last time there by the way...and the place is full of trash and graffiti. This was to be one our our greatest national treasures.....till the invasion of illegals throwing trash everywhere.

Dr.Rob
July 16, 2003, 07:11 PM
You guys notice from the story they were going to trap and euthanize the bear anyway. One way or another, the bear which was only acting like a bear, is going to end up dead.

You can have as many guns as you want in a National Forest, but National Parks are another thing. Those guys should have been packing bear spray (or if they felt like being civily disobediant, a firearm).

gunsmith
July 17, 2003, 03:22 AM
You can carry(rifles) in some national parks if you are horse camping.
some national forest are off limits to firearms.
When I was in Okeechobee nat forest FL the local LEO
told me no rifles unless hunting with license
and you need your ccw to carry pistol,no open carry.

The nat forest to the south of me (near Monterey CA)
has no firearms zones, while the nice rangers from Mendicino
told me open carry at your campsite is ok
I forgot to ask about trails.
They also told me shooting at targets or plinking is ok as long as I
"follow the safety rules every gunowner knows":cool:

I think every state is different,check with the LEO that patrols the area your camping at

scotjute
July 17, 2003, 05:45 PM
At Big Bend NP your firearms are to be unloaded per sign alongside the road. Don't remember if the sign specified where you could carry them.
I kept one in tent at night. When hiking during the daytime on the more traveled trails, I simply carry a big stick and legal sheath knife.

PATH
July 17, 2003, 07:42 PM
As sung to the old Cambells Soup commercials...

"Mmmmm MMmmmmmm good
Mmmmm Mmmmmm good
That's what unarmed campers are
Mmmmm Mmmmmm good!


A .357 would have dealt with this bruin in quick order. Screw the rules if your life hangs in the balance. Predacious behavior by Black Bears is on the rise. Beware!

Alex_F
July 18, 2003, 05:29 PM
It's simple really... if a bear were to attack me while camping, it would die.

I would then pack my crap up and continue hiking, leaving the dead bruin to feed various other critters nearby. The cycle of life goes on, the strong survive and the weak die.

Sounds perfectly natural to me.

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