[Moparmike]

I was surfing TFL tonight and came accross the link to http://www.henryrepeating.com/survival.cfm , which is a survival .22LR. Looks really cool, as you can pack everything (including 2 8rd mags) into the stock. Sort of makes me wonder if you can order more and fit them.

I was wondering what everyone thinks about this as a BOB gun, as it would take up minimal space, and you can easily conceal this for all of the local sheeple/ninnys who might get uptight about your scoped tactically-black Rem700 or (God forbid:eek: :what: ) an AR-15. While the AR would come in handy for more of a SHTF or defensive scenario, what about a good old vittles-gathering type rifle that you could carry 500 rds and the rifle in a nice 1/2 cu.ft. area (or less, just took a stab at the volume...)? I am compiling a list of stuff and suggestions for BOB on ARPA, and while I cant really put a "Blue Helmet" scenario on there (no anti-gov stuff, cant blame them with today's current legal environment), I can put a "Spur of the moment Camping Bag" or "Natural Disaster and must hoof it thru woods to get to good place" type stuff.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Art Eatman]

There have been many big bucks brought out of the south Texas brush country with a .22 bullet hole between their eyes. Some ranch hand would sit all night near a stock tank, and then sell the buck to some city hunter for $5 a point.

The main thing is learn to shoot accurately with whatever choice you make. A .22 is one of the world's best meat guns.

Art

[cameroneod]

Spoken like a poacher of old. Iv gotten in many arguments about hunting and .22's. Someone I know (:D ) has killed his fair share of elk and deer with one.

[Ian]

Either a .22 or scout/pseudoscout rifle would be my choice.

[Skunkabilly]

I am compiling a list of stuff and suggestions for BOB on ARPA, and while I cant really put a "Blue Helmet" scenario on there (no anti-gov stuff, cant blame them with today's current legal environment), I can put a "Spur of the moment Camping Bag" or "Natural Disaster and must hoof it thru woods to get to good place" type stuff.

My buddy just told me his friend said there was a train wreck and possible chemical spill somewhere up in Northern Cali but we can't find it on the news to confirm it, must be breaking news (?) or just not newsworthy.

There are a few tracks around here and it's not impossible for the same thing to happen and necessitate evacuating my workplace and/or home.

[Bobarino]

i thought about one of these also, but then i bought the Kel-Tec Sub 2000. it doesn't float like the Henry, but packs a bigger punch with about the same effective range and is just as small when folded. i'd much rather have the Sub2k with me on a hike than the Henry. its quicker into action too. its as close as i can get to a prefect backpacking gun with what's available on the market.

Bobby

[Dr.Rob]

That Henry or Ar-7 rifle is a neat idea, but accuracy wise they aren't as good as an old bolt gun in .22.

Still, James Bond had an AR-7.:rolleyes:

In all seriousness the .22 is one of the best game getters out there. One of my fave take down 22's is Browning's old take down model. (Of course the one I grew up shooting belongs to my mom, and she won't part with it)

I have a Marlin model 995 with a weaver 1.5-4 scope on it and a GI style sling 3/4 wide. It's light, fairly robust and accurate. (Its no 10/22 bull barrel target rifle) It has a pinned barrel though and I've actually shot the barrel pin loose before.

If I was looking at a Bolt rifle I'd probably opt for a CZ.

[Rick Blaine]

I'm going to back up Bobarino regarding the Kel-Tec Sub 2000. To me, the 9mm rifle is the urban man's .22, and much more useful for stopping the 2 legged varmints if needed. Ammo's cheap enough, and the folding feature makes it easy to stash in a lightweight carry bag. I know a lot of you here don't care for Hi-Point, at least for their pistols (please no flames), but their 9mm carbine has served me well as a varmint chaser. I'm over a thousand rounds through mine without one single failure - it just keeps chugging. I've also got an old Marlin 60 .22, and just recently picked up a Ruger 10/22. All of that said, for the BOB I'd buy a Henry made AR-7 in a heartbeat. I know a lot of outdoor enthusiasts who would agree. Buy a camo one - they're cool.

[Byron]

I picked up a Henry Survival Rifle last month. I am pleased with it. It likes certain ammo and hates others. I shoot CCI Mini Mah HP. The manual states to stay away from the hyper 22's. Mine hates the bulk Federal. In the first 100 rounds there were about 3 or 4 times the empty case was caught. On one magazine, the 8th round would not chamber properly. I have fired about 400 CCI rounds and it functions well. The mag giving the problem is smoothing out. Accuracy at 25 yards is good. I would be comfortable taking a squirrel with it. Avoid too much oil on the bolt. I use only a very small amount. Yes, it is a good rifle. Byron

[chadintex]

the Marlin Papoose is another option.

[Kentucky Rifle]

It's a very enjoyable rifle to shoot. My wife loves it.

KR

[lee n. field]

was surfing TFL tonight and came accross the link to http://www.henryrepeating.com/survival.cfm , which is a survival .22LR. Looks really cool, as you can pack everything (including 2 8rd mags) into the stock. Sort of makes me wonder if you can order more and fit them.

"Improved" -- I hope so. I had one of these in the mid '80s, when Charter Arms made them. Mine wasn't real reliable. Still wish I hadn't sold it off though.

[craigz]

I have one of these Henrys, and it's so-so at best. Yes, it's compact and very light, but it also has mediocre sights and a horrid trigger. I've been wanting to check out the Marlin Papoose instead. It's also a takedown and doesn't pack into the stock, but it comes with a case (that floats) and you can conceivably put a small scope on it without adding too much to the bulk.

[Byron]

I must agree the trigger is different but I still enjoy plinking with it. Byron

[coldshot03/04]

I have the Survival Arms AR7 22LR. It is Very accurate. It looks cheap but its a nice little rifle. Jams a bit every now and then but thats not a big problem for me. I shoot the Federal Gold bulk box. Henry is supposed to be an improved version of the AR7.

I installed a pistol laser and mount on my AR7, now I cant take mine down for storage in the stock. I just bought a cheap gun case to let is rest in.

[sanchezero]

I'm infatuated with those really short winchester leverguns in 38/357.

[OEF_VET]

I've got an older Charter Arms AR-7 that works absolutely wonderful. I put a sporter stock and PG combo on it, which I purchased from AR-7 Industries. Their website is www.ar-7.com. My fiancee loves it so much, she wants one of her own. I'm really impressed that they've modified it to hold an additional magazine in the stock. Here's a pic of it from the recent TN THR Day at the Range.

Frank

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=380324

[SRYnidan]

Probably the best survival rifle I have seen id the Savage 24C 22LR over 20GA. The sights could use improvement but with a couple of hundred 22's and a few each 7 1/2's, Buckshot and slugs not much that could not be taken on this continent except the big bears. Remember the movie Jerimia Johnson and note that a 20GA slug is 58 Cal.

It also breaks down into about 19 inches if I remember right.

[Nightcrawler]

I have one of those Henry Survival Rifles. In fact, it was my first gun. However, I don't think I've put more than 50 rounds through it since I bought it in 1999. For the longest time it sat neglected in its box. The black stuff that coats the plastic stock is chipping off like crazy, and the finish has begun to wear off in some spots where I guess moisture accumulated.

One of these days I'm going to buy a brick of .22 and bring it out and actually shoot it, though with the chipping stock I'm for some reason disinclined to do so. Maybe I'll sand off all of the stuff on the stock and just paint the thing; it's only plastic, after all...

[willyjixx]

mine is a charter arms that i inherited from my mother. the dang thing couldnt fire a single shot without jamming. after i bought a new magazine it improved but i get a lot of primer strikes without the round going off. if i cock it enough to set the trigger an fire again it will usually go off. i think i have a bad or weak spring somehwhere. plus its a pain to zero. you have to loosen the stock, loosen the screw mess with the leaf an tighten it all back up. id rather keep my mini 14 for a survival rifle or at least a long barreled 22 pistol. the pistol an AR7 have about the same range.

[Moparmike]

Not that I am advocating the illegal use of firearms, but could one use the main pistol grip and magazine for a semi-pistol? I know there would be no barrel to speak of, but would it work for close in stuff, say 3 yards or less? I have no idea why I would need it, but its more one of those random "Hmm, I wonder if..." sort of things.

[cordex]

could one use the main pistol grip and magazine for a semi-pistol? I know there would be no barrel to speak of, but would it work for close in stuff, say 3 yards or less?
Unless you took the barrel and cut it down, no. The extractor doesn't hold it tight enough to fire and there's no chamber. The cartridge would just blow up sending shrapnel everywhere.

If you did cut the barrel down, you'd be manufacturing an illegal short barreled rifle.

I had one, didn't like it and sold it to a TFLer who wanted one and knew what he was getting into. Good deal all around.

[AZTOY]

What about the Butler Creek Ruger 10/22 Packer Stock System? Anyone have this setup?




http://www.natchezss.com/cartimages/BCTD10.jpg Butler Creek is introducing it’s new “Packer Stock” system which is the ultimate in a lightweight and portable takedown system for your Ruger 10/22. The “Packer Stock” offers a patent pending, quick detachable “Camo-Lock™ System” that attaches the barrel into the receiver very quickly in the field. Just start the barrel to the receiver, insert the V-Cam into the barrel notch and push the forearm forward to the barrel where it locks into position. You can store your favorite plinker and small game rifle in many convenient areas where a fully assembled rifle is just too long. Just disengage the button, pull the forearm down, and easily remove the barrel. It folds down to a length of 21 inches. This system really improves the ease of cleaning your 10/22 by giving you the ability to remove the barrel in seconds. Plus you get good access to the receive area for removing carbon buildup from repeated shooting. Installation can be performed at home by removing barrel and stock and installing the over-center clamp to your receiver with the existing screws.

Brand: Butler Creek
10/22 TAKEDOWN "PACKER" STOCK

$105.73

NATCHEZSS (http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?bool=AND&maxhits=20&cartid=a-7002&category=All&keywords_1=*&keywords=BCTD10)

[mainmech48]

I've had an example of the AR7 from all three of the manufacturers at one time or another.

Got the first one (an Armalite) for a camping take-along when I was about 20. Found out that it was suprisingly accurate, once you got used to the "Mattel cap pistol" trigger. Reliability was an issue at first, but was traced down to one mag (replaced) and too much lube. When I went to silicone car wax for rust prevention on the steel parts, and "Dri-Slide" for lubrication it'd perk right along with HS ammo.

After that one was stolen, along with the rest of my emergency/camping duffle stuff and my spare tire/wheel when some freelance socialist pryed the trunk of my car open, I bought a Charter Arms.

My example may not've been representitive, but it just seemed to have quality issues that no amount of fiddling would get rid of. Wasn't nearly reliable enough to count on so I sold it off.

I've had a Henry for about four years now. Finish durability isn't as good as I remember the Armalite's as being. Seems to wear a lot just from routine handling. But it works well, is acceptably accurate and is well-favored by my nephews.

Personally, I've switched to a Springfield M-6 with a home-made adjunct ammo storage set-up for my current emergency/survival duffle. Twenty more rounds of 3" .410s in a cordura carrier meant for rifle cartridges and two 50 rd. boxes of .22 HPs in a cordura pouch, both sewn onto a elastic band with velcro closure wrapped around the butt. Not a high-firepower setup, but very practical and versatile otherwise.

[willyjixx]

Not that I am advocating the illegal use of firearms, but could one use the main pistol grip and magazine for a semi-pistol? I know there would be no barrel to speak of, but would it work for close in stuff, say 3 yards or less? I have no idea why I would need it, but its more one of those random "Hmm, I wonder if..." sort of things.

there was a pistol version of the AR7 made..

had a pistol grip an a little 3-6 inch barrel.
the rifle was the explorer but i cant remember what the pistol was called.
the frame an mags were the same as well as how it all put together....

here look at this//


http://www.wapahani.com/sap3.html

[Jeff White]

I have a Bauer Rabbit. It is an over/under .22/.410. It breaks into two pieces, has a skeletonised stock and a painted black crinkle type finish. This gun was sold under several names over the years. Quality control was hit or miss from what I've been told.

I have a good one, works every time, nothings ever broken on it. It's heavier then an AR7 but breaks down into a pretty small package. Made a buttstock carrier out of a USGI M16 cleaning kit pouch that fits into the stock. This allows me to carry two boxes of .22 LR and several .410 shells.

Found a carry case for aiming posts for the 60mm mortar in a surplus store. It holds both parts when it's broken down and straps neatly to the side of my ruck.

Jeff

[Futo Inu]

I think Bob should own whatever gun he chooses.

[Blain]

The more I think of the Kel-Tec Sub 2000, the more it seems like the perfect BoB gun.... Hard to beat a 28 round .40S&W rifle which can fold into 20" length and weighs only 4#. Small enough to easily fit in a briefcase. Though the 16" barrel gives the .40 two or three hundred extra FPS, it would be nice to see the gun chambered in a little more powerful round. Anyone ever chrony a Kel-Tec Sub 2000? How many fps are gained?

[Rick Blaine]

Blain,
I had assumed 9mm when talking about the Sub-2000, but .40 S&W is a good choice too because the Sub-2000 isn't made to shoot +p ammo - maybe a few, but not for regular use.

[Bobarino]

i'm not sure about the .40 version but the 9mm version is made to handle +P ammo. here are the ballistcs figures from the back of the manual:

115gr FMJ: 1350 fps, 430 ft/lbs at the muzzle
sights zeroed for 100yds give about 2.5 inches high at 60 yards. at 200 yards the drop is about 27 inches. about 300 ft/lbs at 100 yards, 210 ft/lbs at 200 yards.

115gr JHP +P: 1520 fps, 590 ft/lbs at the muzzle
zeroed for 100yds give about 2 inches high at 60 yards
200 yard drop is about 23 inches. about 350 ft/lbs at 100 yards and 220 ft/lbs at 200 yards.


besides, there is no +P designation for .40S&W ammo, so theoretically, any .40 ammo should be fine. the inner workings of the gun are quite beefy, including the recoil spring.

the gun folds down to 16 inches, not 20, making it even more transportable.

and they are a hoot!

Bobby

[Rick Blaine]

Bobarino,
I thought I remembered from the KTOG board that either Kel-Tec had backed off on the +P rating and had gone to saying only some +P use was okay, or that the members there were just having service problems with 9mm +P use. Don't want to spread bad info, so I will retract my statement until further research. Pretty sure it's there though because the discussion had to do with the fact that the Hi-Point carbine could fire +P all day long, and the Sub couldn't. Like I said, I'll check it out.