Colt.. Defender or New Agent.


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mkim1120
October 29, 2007, 12:04 PM
I am looking to purchase either a colt defender or new agent...
owners of both please put 2cents in please...

only thing i dont like is the sights on the new agent..is the sights easy to overcome?

and on the defender i hear that the gun has aluminum parts to it?

help me decide!!!

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Lonestar49
October 29, 2007, 02:06 PM
...

The Defender is one of my favorite CCW guns, among 2 others, that I use with confidence.

It had some teathing problems in the first 500 rounds, but since, has been 100%. IMHO, they have to be clean, mainly from powder residue, both on the feed ramp and within the upper interior parts of the magazines to stay 100%. That would include making sure the rails and guides are good and wet with oil, as timing is everything with the 3" models, what I deem, flowing freely with enough juice..

As far as being lighter, using an aluminum frame, there are benefits and downfalls. Benefits are lightweight CCW, easy, balanced, point to aim, and the downfall IMHO is one must stay within the manufacture guidelines, of what ammo one can use, and what one cannot use. And from my own experience there was no difference in recoil compared to a heavier, 4" Commander, in truth, just the opposite from what I felt, and shot, the Defender had less, for me, and was more accurate, including follow-up shots.

Personally, with any of my guns, I just use standard pressure ammo and go with the closest weight of FMJ range ammo and stay within 20gr weight for my HD/SD JHP ammo. That way the gun acts, and feels, the same, along with, not putting a lot of stress on the gun, slide, and the aluminum frame, and I expect no problems far up the road with her.

The only thing I can think of, sights wise, is maybe on a resale issue, the 2-dot bar sights that come with the Defender can be changed to whatever the shooter may like as opposed to the trench-sight of the New Agent, is all it can ever have.

Other than that, she shoots 230gr FMJ range ammo like a tack driver IMO at, or below, 62ft, and using 185gr JHP's hit home as well. And has delivered good COM hits when I have shot her one handed, without any jams.

Keep em clean, well lubed, wet, and proper ammo, and you should have no problems and a long life together IMO.


Ls

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture214-1.jpg

DevilDog0402
October 29, 2007, 09:25 PM
I don't own either, but I would go with the Defender.

Gordon
October 29, 2007, 09:33 PM
I looked at the Agent and it looked cool, although bigger than my Defender. Then I sighted down the gutter- somebody is smoking rope at Colt! You aren't gonna save momma at 15 yards with no sights!

Linda
October 29, 2007, 10:20 PM
I've carried a Defender for 3 1/2 yrs now. Great gun. It does have aluminum parts. That's what makes it so easy to carry, as it being light weight. I will say that when I get ready to replace it, it will be replaced with a Kimber Ultra Carry or Kimber Ultra Raptor with night sights. The internal parts in a Kimber are far superior to the Colts.

I'm not familiar with the Agent. Googling I see it's a revolver. I personally am not a big fan of revolvers for your primary concealed carry gun.

Car Knocker
October 29, 2007, 10:28 PM
Googling I see it's a revolver.
Linda, it's a "New Agent" - a 3" auto. Here's a review with photo: http://ezine.m1911.org/ColtNA_frame.htm

Linda
October 29, 2007, 10:33 PM
Thanks Car Knocker. I couldn't find anything else but the revolver reference. :confused:

Hmmm...,no sights? No thanks!!!

51Cards
October 30, 2007, 12:37 AM
A number of initial problems with my Defender. It now works perfectly, pretty much. Tiny .45s are an interesting species. Of the assorted Kimbers, Springfields, and Colts that show up at the club, it seems all of them are finickier than anything else. So it's weird, after all the problems I've had --- my Defender runs better than the other stuff. 'Bout time.

I ditched the Hogue wraparounds for Crimson Trace with a cut-down Wilson checkered front strap. (Yeah, they say "for Com. & Gov. only, but scissors fix that. ) Makes it feel like the same grip all around, gives two fingers something to hang onto, slicker and slimmer than Hogues. So far, real good.

PS
Is it my imagination, or is the New Agent a blued Defender with almost no sights?

Hunter0924
October 30, 2007, 01:02 AM
Gordan the New Agent is a shade smaller then the Defender.
As far as the trench sight and the rope smoking comment I will assume you do not understand the concept of a trench sight.
Have you shot the pistol and made a fair judgment or are you speculating?

Snake Eyes
October 30, 2007, 01:48 AM
Car Knocker--Thanks for the link to the review. That's some great info.

Hunter0924--Is that your work? If so, can you give us some more detail on the trench site? The review says it "takes some getting used to" but I would like to hear more about how it works (properly) and the adaptation needed.

And, finally: WOW! That Corbon +P blasted out of that little barrel at almost 1000 fps?!?! I bet that's a little snappy!

Gordon
October 30, 2007, 10:11 AM
Having been an owner of an ASP with the 'guttersnipe' system I proudly took it to Gunsite in 1979 as a backup. Now the AGuttersnipe was a far more refined system then the groove on the Agent.But , in front of the class, I was invited to take a headshot at 15 yards. To ease my embarrasment ALL were invited to take a head shot at 15 yards. The Good Colonel remarked something about the importance of a FRONT SIGHT , I sold the ASP within the year. Heck, even a 1903 Colt has a FRONT SIGHT!Everything I ever own has a FRONT SIGHT. Of course you can use the FORCE as some reccomend, but the only ones who actually hit targets that way in real life FORCE the gun into the opponents torso! BTW the Agent is larger than a Defender, which I carry sometimes.
Now don't get me wrong, I might buy one and have some Novaks dovetailed in as the rest of the gun looks very nice, BUT the bet goes- hostage target at 50 feet can an IPSC "A" shooter make it everytime? This one couldn't for sure.

SouthpawShootr
October 30, 2007, 07:02 PM
Both guns have aluminum frames. As others have pointed out, there's not sight issue to overcome on New Agents b/c there are not sights on the gun. That's not exactly so b/c Colt used a milled "gutter" in the slide to make believe there was a sighting system in the design. Very similar to the sights used on AMT's .45 Backup. First I ever heard of it was on the old ASP modification of S&W 439 (I think that was the model). They're quick acquisition and very usable for defensive work. Totally unsuited to range work.

Hunter0924
October 30, 2007, 09:05 PM
Snake Eyes the article on m1911.org is mine. The trench sight worked for me with the trench held at 6 o'clock of the black at 21'.
I know they are not as precise as adjustable target sights but more than sufficient to score accurate hits at a defensive range.
The 230gr +P Winchester Rangers were a little rough as were the Cor Bons.

Gordon
October 30, 2007, 09:12 PM
Please use a target other than a bullseye or other shape that 'fits' in the optical groove of the gutter (like the partial head of a hostage target ) and you will quickly see that you NEED a front sight of some sort to have a repeatable index. This has been proven over and over at more than about 6 feet distance of course if it is just a 'belly' gun then poke away. But a nice little gun like that should have a nice visable (preferably at night) something at the front end of that nice groove.:banghead:

Hunter0924
October 30, 2007, 11:11 PM
There is a technique called instinct shooting (I am sure you have heard of it) that is very effective and is accurate when practiced.
I will agree a front sight is nice but accurate shots can be accomplished without one. If you disagree that is fine by me but I have shot some matches with folks (better than me) than can make it happen.

The Lone Haranguer
October 30, 2007, 11:14 PM
If choosing between the two, I would pick the one with the sights. While in very quick and close shooting I do not focus primarily on the sights (instead using a sort of "silhouette point"), not all shootings are of this type. Having usable sights cannot possibly hurt anything.

Gordon
October 30, 2007, 11:44 PM
"There is a technique called instinct shooting (I am sure you have heard of it) that is very effective and is accurate when practiced."

I totally DISagree, and will shoot a match for money,against unknown ranges (beyond 21 feet)and target sizes with any takers.If you pick a guy like Thell Reed who has been point shooting for 40 years , I'll pick any top combat shooter.
This flys in the face of all common sense and proven track records and was settled about 35 years ago but is regularly resurrected by charlatans that tell a good story. I have been shooting a 1911 in NRA matches ,war , law enforcement and matches for 40+ years and hung out with legends and trained under :Chick Gaylord (Well maybe HE didn't know but I don't think he ever shot anybody), Bill Jordan, Ray Chapman, Col. Cooper,Chuck Taylor,Rob Barkkman,Clint Smith, Louis Awerbuck and Scott Reitz . All these GUNFIGHTERS know that accuracy in gunfighting (and target work) stems from the proper alignment of the front sight. Sure a 'flash' sight picture might include the frame or even cylinder (Jim Cirrullo)outline at very close (under 7 yards) distance, but the only time a pistol is reliably deployed in defense beyond about 10 feet the front sight is aquired.Come on, do you want to drop a perp hiding behind momma with that u groove thing beyond 10 feet? be honest! I get stirred up by a propagation of a very dangerous giant step backward to the WW2 days before the 'new technique' gave a much higher probability of a desired outcome.

MICHAEL T
October 31, 2007, 12:53 AM
My Defebder has proven to be a relieable and great carry gun.

Hunter0924
October 31, 2007, 01:15 AM
Ok well how about this, the trench sight worked well for me. There is a few others I know who have the New Agent that can also make it work. I am confident in the pistol set up and carry it often.

bannockburn
October 31, 2007, 07:12 AM
At an LE seminar many years ago, one of the topics at one of the conferences ran along similiar lines. At some point, the speaker recognized Jim Cirillo in the audience and asked him what were his thoughts on proper sight picture, etc., when it was go time. Cirillo stood up and said: "My front sight has ten serrations", and sat back down. I think that was the end of the discussion. Just something I read many years ago, but kind of always stuck with me.

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