Problems shooting in extreme rain?


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Glamdring
July 15, 2003, 09:32 AM
I am wondering what problems there would be with shooting in real heavy rain.

Limited range due to visibility

Would there be problems with rain getting in thru action? If so would there be any difference between AR, AK, M1 (garand/M14), '98 Mauser, Rem 11-87, Pump Shotgun, or lever guns? What about revolvers, glocks, and 1911?

How much problem is there with getting water in barrel?

I am thinking combat situations or dealing with Dangerous Game in bad weather (ie Kodiak Bears during a storm).

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Boats
July 15, 2003, 10:02 AM
Well I have shot Berettas, 1911s, a Garand, and Remington and Ithaca shotguns, and a Remmy 700 in .308 in Oregon rain and fog under conditions that might be called "underwater" in a place like Arizona. I try to avoid taking weapons with wooden stocks out into the rain, but the choice was sometimes made for me. My 700 is synthetic stocked so no problem. Carry on the rifle is sling down when it is wet out. Water in the action? It seems to run right through.

Other than steam rising off of hot barrels I have never had much problem with downpours. Visibility can be poor. An anti fogging scope on the rifle is a must and not a bad idea anyway. The only real side effect is the amount of cleaning and compressed air required to avoid rust on the weapons I have not had refinished/restocked to hold up better in the weather. Even the lasergrips on one of my 1911s performed just fine getting drenched.

Nero Steptoe
July 15, 2003, 10:10 AM
If you're shooting a 1911 in extreme rain, you'd better have it packed in cosmoline, or you're going to have a rusty club in four or five minutes. If your smart/lucky enough to be shooting a Glock, you can shoot until the guy with the ark comes by to offer you a ride.

Boats
July 15, 2003, 10:38 AM
Yet another myth perpetuated by a know-nothing Glocker. I know I should not play with flame bait, but geez, you'd think a guy could keep his yap shut before uttering something that stupid.

Sven
July 15, 2003, 10:59 AM
M14-type rifles tuned to National Match specs include provisions for an enlarged diameter on the flash suppressor... one purported reason for this is to prevent rain drops from 'deflecting' bullets during downpours.

I guess with accuracy shooters, any little thing can affect a shot!

El Tejon
July 15, 2003, 11:06 AM
Nero, while true the 1911 loves the lube, I've shot in all kinds of weather including heavy rain that lasted over the duration of the entire course. No problems, but I cleaned and lubed nightly.

Had problem with a Glock in skul before, but the sun was shining and the wind was not blowing.:scrutiny:

Clean your weapon, lube your weapon, no matter what you have, no matter what the gun rags tell you.:)

Sisco
July 15, 2003, 11:36 AM
How does the rain affect the bullets trajectory? Say a 110gr 25 cal, target is a trophy buck 100 yds away.

critter
July 15, 2003, 12:01 PM
ALMOST on topic.

I know where there is a model 1917 Enfield 30-06 on display that was fired (in Alaska I believe) during a rain-a freezing rain! Rain-ice got in the barrel. Barrel 'banana peeled' into 3 pieces from muzzle to within a few inches of the action. No major damage to shooter but it was real exciting!

Betty
July 15, 2003, 12:24 PM
Yet another myth perpetuated by a know-nothing Glocker. I know I should not play with flame bait, but geez, you'd think a guy could keep his yap shut before uttering something that stupid.


High Road, people. See Rule 4.

sm
July 15, 2003, 12:29 PM
what problems there would be with shooting in real heavy rain.

my butt gets wet if I sit down :p

I've shot in really bad rainstorms--
I've also shot in lightening and tornados (kinda strange to look around and notice weird looks from other competitors-in the safe/dry-"you guys were running 'em didn't want to break the zen").[ok I dropped 2 that day]

Other than getting sopping wet and I like to slip and fall in the same darn muddy spot--never a problem. With glasses I learned to quit wiping them off --just learn to shoot with wet glasses with drops.

Rather shoot a 98/100 in the rain than to be straight in fair weather only.

Dr.Rob
July 15, 2003, 12:51 PM
Some tricks for bad weather shooting:

Anti Fog wax on your scope lenses. Polish it on, leave it be. Works on glasses too.

Don't take your rifle from cold to hot environments or vice versa. (IE don't take a rifle from subzero outdoors into a warm cabin, leave it in your truck.) Same goes for getting into the truck at the end of the day.

Keep a condom or balloon over the end of the barrel. It will not affect accuracy or POI to any degree in most bad weather shots (you likely won't be taking a 400 yard shot in a driving rain).

BE SURE of your target and what's behind it. I watched my dad take a shot at an antelope crossing in front of a fog bank, missing only to realize he had just fired a shot BACK at his truck. Be careful.

Dry lubes work better than oil and grease in a really wet, soaked environment, or a really cold one.

Your POI during rain will wander, generally a bit lower (you are pushing against thicker , moister air) to get on target, your bullet will slow a bit, giving you a slight dip in POI.. however depending on range and weather you might not notice it at all. (many hipower shooters have "seen" the track of a bullet leaving thier barrel on a high humidity day.. the bullet literally cuts a hole in the air.

Windage is the same, though if its raining sideways you likely have picked the wrong time to shoot.

You'd be surprised to find that deer and elk and bears don't really like to be out in really bad weather without good reason (like the rut or abundant food or territory disputes etc.)

Plastic and Fiberglass stocks are better than wood when it rains and rains continually. If I was going to buy a rifle for Alaska, I'd buy a fiberglass stock.

When you get home, blow everything out with wd-40 and give it all a really deep cleaning.

45R
July 15, 2003, 01:54 PM
If you're shooting a 1911 in extreme rain, you'd better have it packed in cosmoline, or you're going to have a rusty club in four or five minutes. If your smart/lucky enough to be shooting a Glock, you can shoot until the guy with the ark comes by to offer you a ride.


Thats a pretty good fib. But the 1911s got top honors for shooting down a Japanese Zero in WWII :) Pretty good for a rusty ole' club huh. :banghead:

dude
July 15, 2003, 02:23 PM
gee.....I'd hate to tell all those brave folks who sucessfully carried 1911s in combat for the last 80 years-- in the rain of Europe, jungles of the Pacific and Viet Nam that there weapon will turn into a "rusty club" in just a few minutes

Glock people, 'nuff said

Double Maduro
July 15, 2003, 03:42 PM
Ever been duck hunting or hunting for anything in the Pacific Northwest?

Have fired almost every weapon I own in the rain. No ill effects.

Maybe we will actually get a winter this year and there will be some ducks to shoot at.

DM

Sunray
July 15, 2003, 03:49 PM
"...a rusty club in four or five minutes..." Nonsense. And your slide is 100% steel.

444
July 16, 2003, 01:13 AM
In the military, I had the opportunity to fire the M16 in the rain. The peep sight hole keeps getting a drop of water in it. It seemed to hold water. I had to keep blowing the water out before pretty much each shot.

chetrogers
July 16, 2003, 01:24 AM
Oregonian here and my sar-1 hasnt failed me in the rain here..I think it really helps even..After a ton of rapid fire shots you can see the rain hit the barrel and evaperate.I imagine its not good for it but it is a sight to see..Or hear.

CGofMP
July 16, 2003, 01:33 AM
If you're shooting a 1911 in extreme rain, you'd better have it packed in cosmoline, or you're going to have a rusty club in four or five minutes. If your smart/lucky enough to be shooting a


Of course that is why a goodly number of seal teams carry the 1911.


Charles

http://www.jardinescustom.com/april2003photos/resizedthumbnails/Chrome2rcvr.jpg

Glamdring
July 16, 2003, 02:06 AM
Cover the Muzzle. I should have rememered that one. Thanks.

So there doesn't seem to be any problems with rain getting in the action and causeing a barrel obstruction?

dude
July 16, 2003, 02:29 AM
in the action? .......no

barrel obstruction?? .......well enough water in the barrel could be trouble but I and several here have shot many guns in the rain in and out of the Military with no problems.

Schuey2002
July 16, 2003, 03:30 AM
I've also shot in lightning and tornados
Wow! I'd pay to see that! :D
Well I have shot Berettas, 1911s, a Garand, and Remington and Ithaca shotguns, and a Remmy 700 in .308 in Oregon rain and fog under conditions that might be called "underwater" in a place like Arizona.
Spoken like a "true" native Oregonian.. :p

brownie0486
July 16, 2003, 08:29 AM
I have just finished reading this thread in its entirety.

Hope this isn't starting to veer toward glock vs sa 45 acps debates.

I've shot most types of weaopns in major downpours during matches. No issues with the functioning of any I had those days.

One mentioned the M1a's having an opened flash suppressor due to rain issues. They open up the flash hider [ called NM ] so that the rain doesn't hang on the tynes [ open slots ] which affects accuracy as the bullet passes through it. These rifles are aslo known to be able to fire immediately from submersion with no issues of barrel bulge or blowups.

The 223 ar types can not do this as effectively and must be cleared before firing due to the smaller ID of the barrel and not flushing quickly enough upon exiting the water.

I have found that one wants to get the gun apart and spray something like gun scrubber as soon after shooting is through if possible. Then relube liberally and be done with it. That goes for most firearms that I have seen over the years and only seems prudent to reprotect the steels in these things.

The glocks do require less maintenance overall due to the tenifer finish after a good soaking.

The guns I choose to carry are ultra dependable from major makers. If one chooses well initially, there should never be an issue with rain affecting their dependability in the field.

Brownie

Glamdring
July 17, 2003, 01:01 AM
M1a functions after being submersed? Do you mean like SEAL coming out of the water??

Can you provide a source for that? I would run down to the river and test it, but I don't have a M1a yet :)

buttrap
July 17, 2003, 01:51 AM
Well most folks have no idea of what shooting in real rain is or is like. Its not the rain thats the issue at a all, its the you cant see the sight on the end of the gun and all the damn crap that is coming of the brush in the rain. I fell on my rear in the rain once and spent over a hour trying to find the rifle I dropped that only went 5 feet from where I landed in a uprooted doug fir rootwad hole. And yes the idea that water clears out of a M-1A type rifle and does not in a 5.56 is pretty much a anal thought.....

NRA Instructor
July 17, 2003, 10:12 AM
"When you get home, blow everything out with wd-40 and give it all a really deep cleaning."

Instead of WD-40, suggest a good "blow" with carb cleaner and then a good gun oil treatment. WD-40 isn't good for guns.

Glamdring
July 24, 2003, 05:12 AM
Okay, so as far as anyone knows no problems with gun funtion in the rain as long as you don't too much water in barrel?

I was thinking like combat in a rain forest or national guard or such dealing with looters in a city during a hurricane (and no not seriously, more for fiction).

Chugach
July 24, 2003, 06:38 PM
As critter points out, freezing rain is real danger. I've held a 7mm Magnum barrel that was ice plugged and fired here in Alaska. No one injured, but the rifle was destroyed. This barrel was also peeled like a banana.

A muzzle condom, or even a piece of electrical or duct tape works fine to keep rain, twigs, and dirt out of the barrel.

Dave Markowitz
July 24, 2003, 07:06 PM
Historical note:

The US Army adopted Lubriplate grease for the M1 when it was found that oil washed away in heavy rain, causing the rifle to malfunction. The grease stays in place better even when subjected to lots of rain.

BlkHawk73
July 24, 2003, 09:06 PM
Just the topic brought back memories from a miserable day of shooting a police qualifications course of fire a few years back. Pouring rain and windy. Oh yeah it was fun. no malfunctions but target aqusition was at times a bit difficult.

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