[Zundfolge]

I've become enamored of late with the idea of a "Thumper" type AR (a .50 Beowulf, or .458 SOCOM or .45 Bushmaster on an AR action).

Seems like a fun type of gun. And there seems to be a bit of buzz in the forums about these guys too, so now seems like an appropriate time to ask.

The more practical side of me wonders if my money wouldn't be better spent on a DPMS AP4 .308 Carbine.

So what say the experts here?

Limiting ourselves to 16" AR15 Thumpers and 16" AR10 Carbines, what would be the better rifle for HD, SHTF, plinking, range time, maybe a little hunting, etc ... figure I'm not going to do a lot of shooting out past 100-200 yards and I'm not taking dangerous game (like cape buffalo) ... largest animal I'd shoot at would be a North American Elk (and I really don't hunt much).

[shuter]

If that's not possible, the .308 is more useful; and the Thumper a hell of a lot more fun!

good luck

[Zundfolge]

You definitely need both!
I like the way you think :D

So which has the heavier recoil (I like recoil ... especially in a "fun gun")

[LoadedDrum]

308 all the way.

[MachIVshooter]

So which has the heavier recoil (I like recoil ... especially in a "fun gun")

Recoil is generally the product of three things (there are other factors like action type and stock design, but these are the big ones)

1)gun weight

2)bullet weight

3)powder charge weight

So, when you consider that your "thumpers" are used in the AR-15 action rather than the 3-pound-heavier AR-10, thats one factor that will increase recoil. Powder charges are going to be similar, but the .50 Beuwolf, .458 Socom and .45 Bushmaster use bullets 2-3 times as heavy as the .308.

Consider those things, and I'd say felt recoil from the three big bores will be substantially greater. Might ebb at your fun factor, as even the .308 when fired form a 10 pound carbine like my Armalite AR-10 starts to wear on you after 5 or 6 full mags.

Also consider that the big bore AR-15 mags only hold 9 or 10 rounds, whereas your DPMS .308 will be 20 (or 25, if you go with Armalite's AR-10)

[Evil Monkey]

Once you mentioned SHTF I thought you should go with 308. It's just far more common and very versatile for what you expect to use it for.

[shuter]

in a gun like the AP4 DPMS. I have one, and a .450 BM, and the .308 has more of a crack vs. a shove, if that makes any sense. Both are totally tolerable, though.

I actually have 3 DPMS .308's. I have the AP4, the .308B (heavy 18" barrel), and a STEEL upper LR.308 w/24" stainless barrel. The AP4 kicks a bit because of it's weight, but is a hell of a lot of power in that package. The 19/20 round DPMS mags are also tops, and affordable. I love the DPMS .308 series (if you couldn't tell!).

As I've posted (ad nauseum) above, however, I think the Thumpers, in true big bore calibers are simply more fun. They're not as useful or versatile, by a long shot, but they're more fun to me.

If you only have room/money for one, get the .308 DPMS. If you don't really NEED a gun to fill a niche, and you just want to enjoy yourself, get a .450 BM or .458 Socom Thumper. You won't be sorry!


Good luck

[anymanusa]

I love my DPMS 18" Bull barrel 308. Check these 100 yard groups out. I made them today. The one in the upper left is about 1/2".

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/anymanusa/nicegroups.jpg
The one in the lower right is about .690". The lower right is on a cold barrel.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/anymanusa/greatgroup.jpg

these results are with a bipod and a semi automatic rifle, with a Nikon 3-9 x40 Prostaff optic. I am very pleased with the results from my DPMS.

If you don't have a DPMS 308, get one. It is one bada$$ rifle.

[30Cal]

I thought the M79 grenade launcher was "Thumper."

Ty

[peyton]

No the M79 is a bloop gun, we have one hanging on our regimental conference wall here at camp liberty. Oh yes I am old enough that I had familarization training with it in the 70's.

I wanted to know if I can use 45 acp weight bullets to reload this cartridge? I realize certain powder level is required to work action but has anyone developed a reduced load? Also is this round equilivant in power and size to a 45LC, 454 or 460??

[jcjacobvt]

A thumper gun for me is a nice Marlin Guide gun in .45-70 shooting 405 grain lead at about 1400 fps. Ammo easlily available or reloadable. Range is good for about 500 yards or better with the right tang sight.

A .308 rifle that would be a better purchase might be the good old Springfield M1A. Even with battle sights good to 1000 yards for a man size target. Forget those alumnium framed receivers, cold steel is always better.

[El Tejon]

What do you what to do?:confused:

[shuter]

"Also is this round equilivant in power and size to a 45LC, 454 or 460??"

If you mean the SOCOM and .450 BM, they're very close to the .460 S&W from a long barrelled handgun.

[shuter]

"A thumper gun for me is a nice Marlin Guide gun in .45-70 shooting 405 grain lead at about 1400 fps. Ammo easlily available or reloadable"

No doubt that's a Thumper. Now take the exact same thing and put it in an AR with 10 rounds in the mag that'll fire 'em as fast as you can pull the trigger . . . that's an AR Thumper!

I absolutely LOVE .45-70's, in levers, single shots, whatever. But big bore AR's need love too.

see ya

[UnTainted]

Get the ar-10 .308 and then get a 450 Marlin upper for the TRUE thumper!

[aloharover]

Just another vote for the DPMS .308
Great rifle no matter the version you get.

[jay43]

(I like recoil ... especially in a "fun gun")


one good thing about a thumper is that after about 10 to 20rnds your shoulder hurts making you want to quite, thus saving money on thumper ammo. which in turns allows you save up for a gun with more recoil and a bigger bang and thus the cycle repeats itself over and over again

[Dr.Rob]

RRA's .458 Socom uses the same .223 Magazine without modification according to ShotGun News Dec. 2006 issue... so magazines are cheaper. Might be a consideration?

[shuter]

"Just another vote for the DPMS .308 Great rifle no matter the version you get."

Agreed, DPMS is the absolute best where "AR10's" are concerned. Very accurate, very smooth, and very solid. Just add a Timney trigger, and you are rollin'!

[modifiedbrowning]

My understanding is that the .450 Thumper was designed to replicate the 45-70 ballistics.
Also is this round equilivant in power and size to a 45LC, 454 or 460??

[MachIVshooter]

I wanted to know if I can use 45 acp weight bullets to reload this cartridge? Weight? Sure. Diameter? Nope; .45 Cal. rifle rounds use .458" bullets.

Also is this round equilivant in power and size to a 45LC, 454 or 460??

Nearest the .460.

[browningguy]

I really like my .50 Beowulf AR15, it's a great gun for hunting up to 150 yards or so, after that the drop is a little too much for me. It's no fun to shoot it at a bench though, maybe 12-15 rounds and I've had enough of it, standing is much better though.

[shuter]

"Weight? Sure. Diameter? Nope; .45 Cal. rifle rounds use .458" bullets."

If you're referring to the .450 BM, it uses the same .451-.452" bullets that the .45 ACP and Colt use. SOCOM, .45-70, etc. are .458".

[GunTech]

308 is far more versatile.

[Andrew S]

All of the "Thumper" rifles seem to be limited to around 150-200 yards. .308 goes much further. That puts the AR10 higher on my list. The Thumpers won't do anything but put a slightly bigger hole in an equally dead animal in that 150 yard range either.

[benEzra]

I think 6.5 Grendel (or 6.8mm SPC) vs. .308 would probably be more of an apples-to-apples comparison. .450 Bushmaster, .50 Beowulf, etc. are more .45-70 alternatives than .308 alternatives, as I see them.