Makarovs, Tokarevs, and 1911s being destroyed!


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U-235
October 30, 2007, 09:28 AM
I found this thread on Militaryphotos.net, apparently HK gave Estonia a deal on some handguns with the condition that they destroy a large number of their existing handguns. Cases and cases of what look to be brand new pistols (some still in cosmoline) were put through a shredder at a junk yard. It's tough to look at these pictures, especially the case of 1911s that got shredded!

Here is the Militaryphotos.net link: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83534

Here is a link to high resolution photos of the destruction: http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album171&page=1

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308win
October 30, 2007, 09:37 AM
H&K's motive could be that requiring destruction of the firearms keeps them off the surplus market and provides a better opportunity to sell new H&K products. Or, H&K's motive could be that civilians don't need firearms.

Megistopoda
October 30, 2007, 09:40 AM
That is insanity.

Why in hell wouldn't someone buy them and export them? What is up with HK?...surely there were proposals to purchase the material before it was destroyed.

matt87
October 30, 2007, 09:43 AM
What a waste! That 'scrap' could have done a lot of good arming low income citezens for instance.

CK
October 30, 2007, 09:50 AM
Hk, because you ...., and we hate you.

romma
October 30, 2007, 10:01 AM
Heckle and Choke!

armoredman
October 30, 2007, 10:33 AM
I really am not interested in buying any Hk products...especially now. Destroying history as a money making idea. Gah.

Marshall
October 30, 2007, 12:28 PM
Kinda brings a tear to your eye.

fletcher
October 30, 2007, 12:31 PM
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album171/abd.sized.jpg

This picture makes me :( I'd give that whole container of them a good home.

jerkyman45
October 30, 2007, 12:49 PM
This is just insanity. Those pistols could have been sold, what motive did H&K have for this?

JesseL
October 30, 2007, 02:58 PM
I'm sure Estonia would have gotten a much better deal by selling their old guns on the surplus market and putting the funds toward new H&K pistols at the regular price.

nwilliams
October 30, 2007, 03:18 PM
A part of me just died inside.:(

I'm in the process of selling my H&K USP right now, if I ever needed a reason now I certainly have one:cuss:

I'll never buy from H&K again after seeing this:fire:

Funderb
October 30, 2007, 03:26 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
C'MON THAT HURTS.
I want to crawl under a rock and pretend I never was stupid enough to click on this forum and then on the link to the pictures.
Look at all the tokarevs! I wanted to buy one, but decided that they were too expensive, and I'd wait it out... Look now, the new shipment that would of ended up in the US inevitaby now is in little bity bits.
Man this sucks.

.45&TKD
October 30, 2007, 03:57 PM
I think I'm going to be sick!

cracked butt
October 30, 2007, 04:03 PM
Trading err scrapping colt Gov. models for anything made by H:barf:K doesn't seem like a very good bargain.
Sort of like crushing a classic Corvette Stingray to trade 'up' for a new VW Bug.

CWL
October 30, 2007, 04:13 PM
I'd bet those Colts were WWII Lend Lease pistols that were never ever used or handled.

I think that HK is brilliant, they now "own" Estonia for small arms.

It makes sense for Estonia to do this, go from 3 different pistol calibers to one standardized in 9mm para. Meets their military obligations to NATO.

Funderb
October 30, 2007, 04:14 PM
millions of deceased russian and warsaw pact state workers, alond side of a few hundred american men and women, are crying.
Their work has been crushed for progress.....
Screw H&K, their stuff isn't spectacular, but I suppose there is nothing we can do about this now.

usp9
October 30, 2007, 04:16 PM
The first question is; How true is the H&K/ Estonian Govt. connection. All I see is pictures. Could be the Russian "Brady Bunch" for all we know.

.45Guy
October 30, 2007, 04:40 PM
This sums it up pretty well...
http://www.mindjack.com/film/images/CryingIndian.jpg

VirgilCaine
October 30, 2007, 04:45 PM
That's just disgusting.

Cosmoline
October 30, 2007, 04:57 PM
Hold on a second. How do we know H&K forced this part of the deal? How do we know it wasn't a government requirement to get funding?

Thernlund
October 30, 2007, 05:05 PM
I actually felt physical pain from that.


-T.

ninja45
October 30, 2007, 05:13 PM
Antique chairs destroyed to be sold as firewood so that the owner can buy brand new chairs made of compressed wood. Logical? Yea, right!

Thernlund
October 30, 2007, 05:13 PM
Hold on a second. How do we know H&K forced this part of the deal? How do we know it wasn't a government requirement to get funding?

Someone on that board said this...

And it is not HKs idea, it is part of the export control policy of the German Federal government, in accordance with recent treaties against the uncontrolled spread of 2nd- and third hand small arms throughout the 3rd world:

Moreover, in future no new production lines will be opened up for small arms or their ammunition in third countries outside NATO and the EU, and the export principle "new for old" will be applied wherever possible. This means that supply contracts should stipulate that old small arms have to be destroyed when new arms are supplied, thus preventing them from being resold.

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo...trolle.html#t2

Cosmoline
October 30, 2007, 05:37 PM
An EU regulation sounds entirely possible. We KNOW for an ABSOLUTE FACT that the EU is frothing at the mouth crazy when it comes to firearms. They're one of our main enemies, more dangerous than the UN in fact. So if it comes to believing a well established gunmaker did this as opposed to the EU, my vote is for the EU. But at the very least someone should ask H&K about it before we start getting worked up.

AtticusThraxx
October 30, 2007, 05:41 PM
Would the word holocaust be too strong?

TonyStarks
October 30, 2007, 05:58 PM
I truly believe this could make any man cry.....even Chuck Norris

Cosmoline
October 30, 2007, 06:04 PM
Hoplocaust, actually. The burning of arms.

Glock Glockler
October 30, 2007, 06:42 PM
That is beyond tragic.

lamazza
October 30, 2007, 07:03 PM
Wow that is truly sickening.

elrod
October 30, 2007, 07:12 PM
O.K., people, get out your tin-foil hats! :scrutiny: This is a globalist strategy to disarm the plebes. In other words, the military is the only group of people that *needs* guns. When the military upgrades, destroy the old stock so they can't fall into the wrong hands. The EU is the first step. The North American union is the second. Disarmed subjects cannot resist! :(

Paulus
October 30, 2007, 07:33 PM
Uhh, this is distressing to view these pictures. I'm not saying otherwise!

However, to those of us who are old-time Makarov lovers, these pictures are old news. These photos have nothing to do with Heckler und Koch. They are photos of the disposal of old duty pistols, both Makarovs and Tokarevs. There's no 1911s pictured here! These pictures circulated about a year ago on the Makarov forum.

Of course this is a perfect example of government-mandated needless waste. Why didn't they dump these on the American market where responsible gun-owners could enjoy them? Of course this is a stupid attempt at Estonia's currying favor with the politically-correct West.

However, "holocaust" is a word best used with respect to the extermination of people (European Jews) and not to inanimate tools.

Paulus

Phydeaux642
October 30, 2007, 07:47 PM
However, "holocaust" is a word best used with respect to the extermination of people (European Jews) and not to inanimate tools.

+1, but truly a sad group of photos.

_____________________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

.45Guy
October 30, 2007, 07:51 PM
There's no 1911s pictured here!
Sure looks like the work of Saint Browning to me....
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/aay.jpg

denfoote
October 30, 2007, 08:45 PM
Old news.
It was not so much HK, but NATO that was responsible.
Estonia was required to adapt the NATO standard as a condition of membership.
They were also required to destroy all existing "non standard" arms to "keep them off of the 'illicit' gun market"!!
That means you and I boys and girls!!
NATO is a branch of the UN, so you know what that means!!
Estonia was also required to film the proceedings as "proof" of complience.

Paulus
October 30, 2007, 09:17 PM
Hey .45Guy:

Oops, I missed that one.

Makes it even more sad. My bad.

Paulus

Coronach
October 30, 2007, 09:49 PM
That is insanity.THIS IS ESTONIA!

Sorry. I had to.

Mike

Coronach
October 30, 2007, 09:50 PM
And, yes, I'm aware that the emmisary said "this is madness", but Leonidas also said "Sparta", not "Estonia." So. Yeah.

And that truly sucks re: the destruction of a LOT of valuable guns.

Mike ;)

Hoppy590
October 30, 2007, 10:58 PM
gentlemen. i suggest we all observe a moment of silence for these guns.










that is truly rediculous. i cant even talk about it. why, i mean .... ahhh


However, "holocaust" is a word best used with respect to the extermination of people (European Jews) and not to inanimate tools.


holocaust is destruction by fire, still irellavant to this, but not limited to people

Hunter0924
October 30, 2007, 11:06 PM
I do not have the words.

mnw42
October 30, 2007, 11:37 PM
And now I'm going to cry myself to sleep....

ArchAngelCD
October 31, 2007, 02:34 AM
Some things in this world are just not right, and this is one of them.

I bet Mrs. Clinton just loves pictures like those and treats them like porno, hanging them all over her bedroom. :uhoh:

novaDAK
October 31, 2007, 02:44 AM
I remember these pics a while ago. I didn't know there were 1911s in there...not that that makes any difference, I hate seeing the destruction of helpless guns like that, no matter what kinda gun they are.

Screw HK and/or the UN or whoever the hell had a hand in this :mad:


(the same goes for the needless descruction of old/classic cars. Once they're all gone, they're all gone :( if anyone's seen that texaco commerical on TV where the claw destroys a 60s camaro, you know what I mean. Screw hollywood in this category as well :mad: )

ColinthePilot
October 31, 2007, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by novaDAK
I hate seeing the destruction of helpless guns like that, no matter what kinda gun they are.

Agreed, but if nothing else, it proves guns are not harmful on their own. These EVIL HANDGUNS didn't even put up a fight in the face of their own destruction.

tommygunm1a1
October 31, 2007, 04:08 AM
It's sick. Just sick.

Just like those brand new, never used, still in cosmoline, Thompson 1928's the Russians chopped up.

Medusa
October 31, 2007, 04:58 AM
Coronach, you want to insult me? What the H is that "THIS IS ...."? My home may not be much, compared to the US of A, but it's mine, so you better watch it.

BTW I do wonder as this affair jumps up from time to time. I posted when it happened, then later again, and now again?

Paulus,these were whole $***load of NIB, unused, in factory grease Makarovs and TT-s, plus 500 Colts. 4500 TT-s, 1000 Maks, mint, should make you cry.

The HK specifically required the destruction, so the USPs could be bought a little cheaper. I'm assuming they didn't want those guns to enrich the civil market and lessen their chances there.

Original Thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=204360)

Resurrection of that (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=236802)

Good is that we actually can have some USPs in DL,(each came with one mag only, though) but not everyone, only a selected few. Sad is that every time we shoot handguns, I beat everyone with the USP with my CZ75.

plexreticle
October 31, 2007, 05:03 AM
If this is in fact an HK deal then I just narrowed down the choices of my next firearm purchase by 1.

novaDAK
October 31, 2007, 06:22 AM
If this is in fact an HK deal then I just narrowed down the choices of my next firearm purchase by 1.

If it is HK, then I'll post this pic I made last night:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/novaDAK/downwithHK.jpg

cracked butt
October 31, 2007, 08:21 AM
Coronach, you want to insult me? What the H is that "THIS IS ...."? My home may not be much, compared to the US of A, but it's mine, so you better watch it.

BTW I do wonder as this affair jumps up from time to time. I posted when it happened, then later again, and now again?

Paulus,these were whole $***load of NIB, unused, in factory grease Makarovs and TT-s, plus 500 Colts. 4500 TT-s, 1000 Maks, mint, should make you cry.

The HK specifically required the destruction, so the USPs could be bought a little cheaper. I'm assuming they didn't want those guns to enrich the civil market and lessen their chances there.


Don't feel bad, they do the same thing in our country. U.S. Arms in storage for many years often end up getting chopped up and melted down. The destruction of these weapons, especially M-14s was greatly accellerated during the Clinton regime, unfortunately now they are needed for fighting in the middle east.

Gunner4h1r3
October 31, 2007, 10:08 AM
wow... i am in shock that they scrapped all of those guns. i can't f-ing see how this happened but then again, a lot of bs happened when it comes to europe and firearms.

tinygnat219
October 31, 2007, 10:26 AM
I felt a disturbance in the Force.... as if thousands of tools for self-defence were just suddenly silenced.

Hoppy590
October 31, 2007, 10:58 AM
Coronach, you want to insult me? What the H is that "THIS IS ...."? My home may not be much, compared to the US of A, but it's mine, so you better watch it.

its from a movie, 300. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkWS9PiXekE
short version here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZeYVIWz99I

the messenger of an invading army comes along and demands submission. the spartan king threatens to kill him, he says "This is madness!" to which the response is "THIS IS SPARTA!!!!"

its no an insult, just a general popculture referance. various american/canadian maybe some european 300 referances to show how big this thing is http://www.collegehumor.com/tag:300

added: personal favorite http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1757264

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