Virginia CDL chair spoke at my school last night


PDA






SpeedAKL
October 31, 2007, 12:30 AM
The chair of the Virginia Citizens Defense League was speaking at my school (Virginia Tech) last night. The campus paper actually gave him a somewhat fair writeup, although they definitely picked some of the more inflammatory statements that he made. The article painted him a bit out-there, but it wasn't filled with gun-grabber drivel either. The event was designed to encourage the university to allow concealed-carry on campus and to encourage students to get a CCP. I wasn't able to go.

Some of my friends were discussing it over dinner; generally the words "nutcase", "lunatic" and "idiot" came up. I usually just duck out of political or socioeconomic conversations with people who I know are too ignorant to listen but this time I politely mentioned that he did have a logical point in that there is nothing to prevent a crime in a "gun-free" zone. The response was "yeah, whatever". They expressed concern about drunk college students packing, which I somewhat share, but I also mentioned that the process is designed to make sure that the people who receive CCPs are responsible and know how to use the weapon. They just said it would end up in barfight shootouts (not that local bars are on campus anyway......)

We have had two armed robberies on campus in the past two weeks, one in broad daylight and one after a football game with cops all around. We currently have a stalker on the loose in town who has been harassing women; some of the incidents have occurred on campus. IMO it just makes it all the more asinine to disallow students the right to carry on campus. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it still pisses me off that I have to be made a victim.

If you enjoyed reading about "Virginia CDL chair spoke at my school last night" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Ed Gallop
October 31, 2007, 09:35 AM
Yes... I couldn't agree more. The over reaction across the nation is rediculous. The maniac rampage at nearby VA Tech is likely your area's knee jerk that put their foot in the ceiling. Guns didn't cause the VA Tech rampage or any other crime involving guns. We know the bad guys will get and carry guns and rules/laws will not stop them. Knowing other students are likely armed would be a deterent though. If someone had been armed at VA Tech it may not have gone as far as it did.

My middle aged son brought his girlfriend over last Sunday. I brought a new revolver into the room to show my son. She jumped in fear at sight of the gun and apparently was anti gun. I told her that "her fear was misconceived. That a gun doesn't have a mind of it's own so can't be a threat. I wasn't going to shoot her. I'm a retired cop and the house is full of guns." Her reaction is the problem we face. The public needs more interaction with firearms to ease their fears.

Gunfyter
October 31, 2007, 11:11 AM
Blacksburg has certainly changed since I was there. Back then a sleepy little town with two stoplights. Sadly, not for the better.

Leatherneck
October 31, 2007, 02:09 PM
Here's what Philip had to say to the VCDL members this morning:
"
My talk at Virginia Tech went smoothly last night.

I was really looking forward to speaking at that beautiful campus and to meet students, faculty, and staff. I definitely wasn't disappointed in any of those things. Nice people, including several VCDL members, and gracious hospitality.

TV station WDBJ (channel 7) estimated attendance at about 100 people.
Three or four people were open carrying that I noticed.

Thanks to the Libertarians at Virginia Tech for giving me the opportunity. Special thanks to Jonathan McGlumphy for moderating the event and Christine Malady, President, for the invitation.

EMs attending were Bruce Jackson (also on the VCDL Board), Sandy Ferris (both of whom travelled from Fredericksburg!), and Dave Knight.

Bradford Wiles also attended. Bradford, as you might recall, has been working the carry issue at VT for some time now as a student.

I have audio of the talk and my PowerPoint presentation, which I plan on combining into something that can be downloaded from the Internet.
The idea being that other interested groups can watch the presentation. I will let everyone know when it is ready and posted to the VCDL web site.

Here is coverage by a local TV channel:

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=7283228

Should college students and teachers be allowed to carry guns on campus?

The controversial question hit a feverish pitch across the country shortly after the Virginia Tech shootings. The question surfaced again at Virginia Tech Monday night.

The student chapter of the Libertarian Party at Virginia Tech sponsored the event. Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens' Defense League, spoke to a crowd of about 100 people.

Van Cleave told the audience while police are always "on duty", just like they were the day of the shootings, when seconds count, they are likely minutes away. He also says technology, like the warning sirens and the text alert systems, can't always be trusted.

Van Cleave says the Virginia Citizens' Defense League is currently working on a new bill which would overrule all university administrator's decision not to allow students and faculty to carry guns on campus.

--

Here is coverage by the VT newspaper, Collegiate Times. There is a
place for comments at the end of the article on the web and there are
quite a few. Feel free to jump in:

http://tinyurl.com/yvqppt

Speaker endorses concealed weapons
Caroline Black, CT University Editor
Tuesday, October 30; 12:00 AM

While the audience milled around in the entryway with exposed guns
hanging from holsters in their khakis, Philip Van Cleave took the
stage in Litton Reaves last night to speak on behalf of the rights of
gun owners to carry their weapons concealed on campus.

Van Cleave is the president of the Virginia Citizen's Defense League
(VCDL) and his lecture, Higher Education and Lawful Concealed Carry:
How Much is Your Life Worth?, was hosted last night by the
Libertarians at Virginia Tech.

Concealed carry is a legal authorization for anyone eligible to own a
handgun or other weapon to be able to carry that weapon in a
concealed, non-visible manner. Currently, it is against the
university policy for anyone to carry a concealed weapon on campus.

Van Cleave opened his presentation last night in front of a giant
screen on which was projected a PowerPoint opening with the words,
"When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only
minutes away."

That sentiment seemed to be echoed throughout his presentation, as
Van Cleave made several more allusions and references that
highlighted his apparent dissatisfaction with the performance of the
police when it comes to providing safety to citizens. He summed up
his thoughts on police protection with the phrase, "I'm responsible
for my safety, the police will be my backup, but I'll protect myself."

Making his first specific reference to Tech, Van Cleave asked "How
many students are here? How many police, how many square miles? It
may be too late, and that is the significance of being able to defend
yourself."

He took issue with university police, calling the concept a "conflict
of interest" because with the administration as their bosses,
university police can be told to try and keep crime statistics quiet
by the people who "sign their paychecks."

Van Cleave governed his speech last night around a PowerPoint
presentation that made an explosive metaphor of his views of gun
control. Modeling gun control as a "bomb," the bureaucratic mindset
as the "fuse," and the criminal mindset as the "flame," he speculated
that when all of those elements come together, that is when bad
situations occur, and the right to carry concealed weapons on campus
is not the real problem.

He argued that students were being labeled as unstable or unreliable,
and that gun control advocates don't believe that students are mature
enough to handle the right to carry concealed weapons on campus.
However, Van Cleave explained, students over 21 who are able to
drive, drink, vote and serve their country should not be considered
incapable of handling the responsibility of a concealed weapon.

Of the alert systems, Van Cleave said, "Basically, (by restricting
the right to concealed carry on campus) the government is telling me
that if these things fail, I'll die."

He was also of the opinion that being able to carry guns, even
concealed, is actually a deterrent to crime, saying that there is a
certain look or attitude that comes with carrying a concealed weapon
that can alert potential attackers or criminals to the fact that
someone they may be targeting can defend themselves, and they will be
less likely to commit an act of aggression.

His presentation was peppered with personal stories and anecdotes in
which just the presence of guns have prevented dangerous crimes,
including a friend [That maverick, Dennis O'Connor ;-) - PVC] who was
in a bank openly carrying a gun in a holster when a man entered
wearing a ski mask, noticed the friend's exposed weapon, and
hurriedly left the bank.

During a question and answer session in which the audience could
write their questions on index cards, which were filtered by
organizers, most questions seemed to be about gun rights that are
already established.

One question was asked about whether or not Tech students had the
right to carry weapons in a visible manner, to which one audience
member loudly responded, "Only once!" to open laughter. [Board
Member Bruce Jackson, referring to students getting expelled for
breaking a school rule - PVC]

Van Cleave summarized his opinion that the right to conceal carry
guns on campus would benefit students with one of his closing
statements.

"(Seung-Hui) Cho had planned to kill himself when police showed up.
If someone else had displayed force, would he have done the same
thing? I believe he would."

JohnBT
October 31, 2007, 03:17 PM
Interesting reads. Thanks.

John
VCDL member
VPI Class of '72

Beatnik
October 31, 2007, 03:34 PM
The response "yeah, whatever" is a comeback worthy of all the scorn you can muster.
If that's their serious comeback to a logical argument, I'd point out to whoever said it that a) it doesn't address the problem, and b) what are you doing attending one of the nation's better technical colleges if you can't follow this argument to its logical conclusion?

Remember there are three sides in this argument: us, the 4 or 5 marxist professors who scream the loudest, and the vast majority of the population who just hasn't put any real thought into the problem.

Ask them to really think about it, or at least point out that they're not thinking about it.

silverbird
October 31, 2007, 03:40 PM
26,000+ stuents, and all they could muster was 100 people?

FYI (for those not familiar), Litton Reeves is the main building for the College of Natural Resources at Tech. Most of the students outside of this college don't even know where the building is. I would like to have seen it at Squires or one of the other "main" buildings.

Also, how were people allowed to open carry? I believe that is a no-no there as well.

Blacksburg has certainly changed since I was there. Back then a sleepy little town with two stoplights. Sadly, not for the better.
It has changed a little, but it is still the same old town. The campus just dominates the demographics a little more than before. I don't think the changes are either "better" or "worse".

goon
October 31, 2007, 03:44 PM
It really is a no brainer.

MakAttak
October 31, 2007, 03:48 PM
Also, how were people allowed to open carry? I believe that is a no-no there as well.

In Virginia, colleges can only prevent students and employees from carrying. The public has a right to carry on campuses per state law.

MakAttak
October 31, 2007, 03:49 PM
One more note. Students and employees are not legally barred from carrying, they are simply faced with expulsion or firing.

bluestarlizzard
October 31, 2007, 04:28 PM
this is probably a stupid question, but is there any college in the u.s. that supports its students right for conceled carry?

El Tejon
October 31, 2007, 04:47 PM
Other than our Utah friends?

The-Fly
October 31, 2007, 06:42 PM
this is probably a stupid question, but is there any college in the u.s. that supports its students right for conceled carry?


Colorado State University. Any of the Utah schools (even K-12).

bluestarlizzard
October 31, 2007, 08:07 PM
darn, and i'm stuck with uva.:mad:

Ed Gallop
October 31, 2007, 08:20 PM
A local southwestern Virginia high school, not too far from Salem/Roanoke, chastized a student with a shotgun in his vehicle last year. He explained it was hunting season and it was not convenient to go home to get his gun before hunting. I believe the school board reviewed the situation and ruled it was okay to have firearms in vehicles on school property as long as hunting season was in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

bluestarlizzard
October 31, 2007, 08:25 PM
i remember that. but also i remember a kid at burley middle school in albermarle who got kicked out for wearing his nra/4-h hoilday lake camp shirt. the nra ended up involved. i think if that kid with the shotgun had been in albermarle schools, it would have ended diffrently.

SpeedAKL
October 31, 2007, 08:57 PM
Blacksburg is still a very nice place to live. It's a pretty town, there's plenty to do for younger people, and I'm only five minutes away from the range. Furthermore, the region is perfect for people who like the outdoors.

However, as with any college town, it's disproportionately populated by leftists. Many of the professors, as well as many of the residents you see wandering around downtown, are Baby Boomers who got caught up in the '60s New Left movement and never got out. Just walk into any local coffee shop or restaurant and you'll see what I mean. Thus, the town's priorities can sometimes be a little odd...for example, Virginia Tech is planning a massive campus expansion over the next 20 years, but the campus and town plan to add ZERO new parking for cars because they want to make everyone walk or use public transportation and fight global warming. In other words, they want to make a huge traffic mess.

bluestarlizzard
October 31, 2007, 09:00 PM
yes, in another few years you get to be c-ville. sorry, no pity from me.

JohnBT
October 31, 2007, 09:27 PM
Won't happen, Montgomery County won't draw the millionaires and movie stars the way Albemarle County has. Albemarle had high per capita rate of millionaires even back during the Depression when my father was a kid and Rt.29 was still a dirt road connecting C-ville and Lynchburg.

I wonder if our little range is still behind the house/shack we rented at the base of Brush Mountain just off rt. 460 ouside Blacksburg. Probably not. Those were the days, a huge blackberry patch in the front yard and a range in the back yard. And only $75 a month. :)

John

bluestarlizzard
October 31, 2007, 09:33 PM
millioniares arn't the problem. gun grabbers and traffic is the problem. that and some stupid real estate survey said that it was the #1 place to live in america. uggg..... they're even trying to pass some ordinance in the county about shooting on privet property (and i ain't talking about the suburbs, i'm talking out in the bondocks, like scottsville) so while the blackberry bushes in the front yard will remain, the range in the backyard is under threat.

Soybomb
October 31, 2007, 09:36 PM
Some of my friends were discussing it over dinner; generally the words "nutcase", "lunatic" and "idiot" came up. I usually just duck out of political or socioeconomic conversations with people who I know are too ignorant to listen but this time I politely mentioned that he did have a logical point in that there is nothing to prevent a crime in a "gun-free" zone. The response was "yeah, whatever". They expressed concern about drunk college students packing, which I somewhat share, but I also mentioned that the process is designed to make sure that the people who receive CCPs are responsible and know how to use the weapon. They just said it would end up in barfight shootouts
Its rather sad that "whatever" is what passes as logic and analysis for some college students. You would think virginia tech students would be more open to considering the implications of violence in a gun free zone and not dismiss such concerns as quickly.

bluestarlizzard
October 31, 2007, 09:41 PM
"Its rather sad that "whatever" is what passes as logic and analysis for some college students. You would think virginia tech students would be more open to considering the implications of violence in a gun free zone and not dismiss such concerns as quickly."

or at least come up with a more brilliant argument then "whatever".

BB62
November 1, 2007, 09:44 PM
...They expressed concern about drunk college students packing...

YES, those same people who are legal to carry off campus (do they get drunk on campus?), and legal to carry in many states when alcohol is being consumed (like in Indiana at BARS?), and of age to get a license (some states issue them to those **18 YEARS OLD**) would no doubt a) get themselves good and drunk out of their fricken mind, and b) start blowing people away once in that state, RIGHT?

Somehow just the smell of alcohol, or the mere stepping of one's foot onto a campus turns an otherwise normal, licensed CCWer, who happens to be a college student into a THREAT TO SOCIETY !!

It's your party (schoolmates), but I would at least put together some punch lines like I have above to direct to their "whatever" responses.

Is that the kind of critical analysis skills a potential employer is looking for in today's college graduate?

BTW - in Utah, where campus carry is legal, there've been a WHOLE LOTTA students twirling their guns around their fingers as a prelude to blowing their fellow collegians away.

Riiiiiight.

paramedic70002
November 4, 2007, 11:50 AM
Blue Ridge Community College allows CCW. The state CC system is trying to implement a statewide policy forbidding CCW.

Feel free to join the blog they have set up:

http://vahighered.com/2007/10/04/help-vccs-make-safer-campuses/

An 18 year old high school student in Norfolk was arrested for having a rifle in his car on school grounds last year. Once VCDL pointed out to the Commonwealth's Attorney that no laws were broken, the charges were dropped. Not sure what kind of school punishment ensued.

bluestarlizzard
November 4, 2007, 01:42 PM
hey, paramedic70002. does piedmont allows ccw?

paramedic70002
November 5, 2007, 01:00 AM
Only Blue Ridge that I'm aware of..........

bogie
November 5, 2007, 04:09 AM
I guess it just shows that those folks in Utah are a lot more advanced than the folks in Virginia area...

Whip that one out, and watch 'em backpedal while trying to think something up...

shc1
November 5, 2007, 07:05 AM
WHOLE LOTTA students twirling their guns around their fingers as a prelude to blowing their fellow collegians away.
No flame intended butů
All the more reason to blame guns for evil deeds as opposed to the people who carry them?
Looking cool is for the movies. Some 21 year old kids need to learn this.

If you enjoyed reading about "Virginia CDL chair spoke at my school last night" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!