.40 cal Glock, heavy recoil springs


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RyanM
November 1, 2007, 03:59 PM
After today, I think I can say with no reservations whatsoever, that if you have a Glock in .40 S&W or .357 SIG, you definitely need to get an increased power recoil spring. Before, with the stock 18 pound spring, brass would bounce off the roof and go flying who knows where. It'd end up all over the range. With a 22 pound spring, it all landed about 8 feet away. First time I've ever recovered all of my brass! I even tried seeing if I could limp-wrist the gun, firing one-handed with my left hand. Not a single problem. I was using 165 gr ammo at about 1050 fps.

For some unknown reason, Glock uses the same weight recoil spring in the 9mms and .40s (and the slides are practically identical in weight, less than 1/10 ounce difference). But if you look at the relative momentums, .40 has about 22.5% more momentum. 22.5% more spring weight for a compact frame is 22 pounds, which works flawlessly. Get a heavy spring!

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gtmtnbiker98
November 1, 2007, 04:26 PM
I've not experienced any ejection issues with any of my Glocks chambered in .40 S&W nor have I heard of a common ejection problem that would require a change in recoil spring aside from the routine change after 5,000 rounds. For CCW and/or duty use, I definitely would not depart too far from OEM for both functionality and liability sakes. Who knows better about Glock pistols then Glock Engineers who designed and developed the pistols.

R&J
November 1, 2007, 05:25 PM
If memory serves, Glock uses a 17 lb. spring for the entire full size line up!

For range practice, I use the OEM springs in all three of our Glocks (17, 19 & 21).

The LaserMax springs are a bit stiffer than OEM. But these work flawlessly in our G19 & G21.

I do use a 22 lb. spring in my G21, when in 10 mm conversion mode, as it offsets the slightly lighter slide, and spares the frame some pounding. This cycles perfectly with all but a few ammo-types.

There is such a wide range of loadings today, in the popular calibers, many shooters choose to tweak their recoil springs--especially competition shooters.

--Ray

Harley Quinn
November 1, 2007, 05:26 PM
I agree, I have many springs because of the slight difference regarding the various rounds being fired as to weight of bullet and pressure etc.

Heavier recoil springs are recommended by those who make the barrels.
They recommend better rods also.

Dialing in a reload is what you are doing, and the spring is also needed to be dialed into the scenario.

Glock has a nice product but some help is needed at times. For those who are very picky.


R&J
How does the slide get lighter if you only replace the barrel?

CountGlockula
November 1, 2007, 05:29 PM
Get a heavy spring!

Interesting. I'd like to give it a try. Is there a particular brand you recommend?

RyanM
November 1, 2007, 05:59 PM
If memory serves, Glock uses a 17 lb. spring for the entire full size line up!

Yep, every single one. 9mm and 10mm frame, and longslides. Pretty crazy.

-------

Glock has a nice product but some help is needed at times. For those who are very picky.

Or those who merely don't like watching their brass bounce off the bottom of a roof, then down a hill and into a lake!

R&J
How does the slide get lighter if you only replace the barrel?

He may have meant lighter compared to a Glock 20. There's a 1.4 oz. difference.

----------------------

Interesting. I'd like to give it a try. Is there a particular brand you recommend?

Well, I've been using a Glockmeister tungsten captive recoil spring guide rod (pretty sure those and all other non-Wolff guide rods are manufactured by THE), and an ISMI 22 pound spring. I recommend against buying from Glockmeister, though. They shipped me springs for full-size Glock models twice, made me pay for return shipping in between, and took several weeks to send the replacement (wrong) springs. It also took several weeks to get any response via e-mail the first time, and no one answered the phone the times I called. My second e-mail, telling them they screwed up again, was never answered. I ended up selling the springs at a loss rather than deal with that again.

At this point, I recommend buying from Lone Wolf (http://www.lonewolfdist.com) and avoiding Glockmeister. I've sent e-mails to both places asking about buying a replacement for the screw and washer that got launched into low earth orbit, however, so we'll see if Glockmeister have cleaned up their act. But Lone Wolf has some of the best customer service in the industry. They've always gotten back to me fast whenever I've asked something on their feedback form thing. In fact, the only company (gun or otherwise) that's treated me better is Volquartsen Custom.

Your other option is to use Wolff springs and guide rod. ISMI springs are flat like the OEM springs, and will work on the OEM plastic guide rod as well, if you can pop the retaining thing on and off without damaging it. They do have a slightly larger internal diameter, however. Wolff springs are round, and require a wider guide rod. Lone Wolf claims the guide rod they sell will work fine with Wolff springs, though, if you use a plastic washer. I'm guessing Wolff guide rods are the diameter of the hole in the slide, so they can't have a wider end to retain the spring. I guess to prevent the rod from moving around as much, if that matters at all.

I went with ISMI primarily because of the availability of a captive tungsten guide rod. That extra ounce helps. Wolff only offers steel, non-captive guide rods, and I definitely do not want to wrestle with a spring like that, every single time I field strip the gun. It is a huge hassle.

I recommend rolling a piece of paper around the spring and taping it together, cutting it to the same length as the guide rod, then trying to find something you can stick in one end, with a hole in it the diameter of the guide rod. Use the paper tube to compress the spring, then put the screw in. I didn't have anything to stick in the end of the tube, though, and was attempting to use my Glock slide, when everything went flying. So you may not want to try that.

I have no advice on getting a non-captive spring in, other than keep trying, and wear face protection (or at least eye protection).

CountGlockula
November 1, 2007, 06:21 PM
Thanks for the input Ryan!

jakemccoy
November 1, 2007, 10:59 PM
I have a Glock 27 .40cal. I have had success with the Wolff (not Lone Wolf) recoil rod and 20 pound spring. When I shoot hot loads, the recoil is quite a bit more manageable. This stiffer spring also works well with cheap Blazer Brass 180gr practice rounds.

In the subcompact Glocks, the stock spring is 16 pounds. It's the same spring used in the Glock 26 9mm. Go figure. I guess 16 pounds is the heaviest that is reliable with the lightest 9mm load. Who knows?

I'm of the philosophy that one should use the stiffest spring that is reliable. Nowadays, there are hot loads for .40 cal that are a bit too strong for a 16 pound spring. I have not yet had a hiccup with the stiffer spring after shooting about 300 rounds of a wide variety of loads.

By the way, handling a non-captive 20 pound spring is no big deal whatsoever, and the subcompact Glock recoil spring setup is more complex. Wolff recoil rods and springs are noted by many as being highly reliable.

R&J
November 2, 2007, 12:32 AM
Harley Quinn asks, "R&J How does the slide get lighter if you only replace the barrel?"

*****

RyanM's all over it! :)

The G21 has a slightly lightened slide, as compared to the G20. The excess metal in the slide is removed well ahead of the firing chamber, so I figured the additional mass was deemed desirable for the firing cycle. I reckoned a stiffer spring might offset the lighter slide's increased velocity (at least backward). :scrutiny:

Am I smart, ever! :D

Of course, the OEM spring works fine too--even in 10 mm. :rolleyes:

But I like the hot loads! I shoot mostly Double Tap 135 gr Noslers, rated at 1600 fps and 767 ft/lbs. :what: The stiffer spring saves the frame some pounding.

--Ray

Kor
November 2, 2007, 01:13 AM
...the harder the slide slams back into battery.

You may well be sparing your frame from battering, and your hand from recoil, but that may come at the cost of causing battering and wear to your slide and barrel, particularly where the barrel locks-up to the slide at the ejection port. Look for a raised edge to get peened up on the inside of the slide at the top of the ejection port, and/or a peened-up raised edge at the top of the exterior chamber portion of the barrel.

Yes, this may well take several thousand rounds to manifest, and yes, you can purchase a new barrel and/or slide more readily than you can purchase a replacement frame, but a broken gun is still broken, regardless of which parts got busted.

IIRC the Glock 23 survived 200K+ rounds in FBI adoption testing with the original factory recoil spring setup, therefore, since the guns didn't break, they don't need to be fixed...IMO, after 16 years and 2 generations of production, if the G23 really needed heavier springs, the factory would have changed them by now.

R&J
November 2, 2007, 01:42 AM
1) "...Look for a raised edge to get peened up on the inside of the slide at the top of the ejection port, and/or a peened-up raised edge at the top of the exterior chamber portion of the barrel."

2) "Yes, this may well take several thousand rounds to manifest, and yes, you can purchase a new barrel and/or slide more readily than you can purchase a replacement frame, but a broken gun is still broken, regardless of which parts got busted."

*****

1) Will do! 10 mm isn't a caliber I plan to shoot often, which is why I went with the conversion approach, but I will be mindful of this!

2) Point taken! This was not my goal!

Thanks!

--Ray

RyanM
November 2, 2007, 03:04 AM
I sort of doubt that the force of the gun going back into battery will be anywhere near the force at the other end of the cycle, since it will be feeding a round. Just don't drop the slide on an empty chamber on a regular basis, and you should have no problems.

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By the way, handling a non-captive 20 pound spring is no big deal whatsoever, and the subcompact Glock recoil spring setup is more complex.

More complex, sure. But how long are those springs? With a compact frame increased power spring, you've got a 7" spring going on a 2.75" rod. That's a lot of slack to try and line up. And there's no outer housing to use to keep the inner spring lined up.

jakemccoy
November 2, 2007, 02:15 PM
Kor wrote:
"...the harder the slide slams back into battery.

You may well be sparing your frame from battering, and your hand from recoil, but that may come at the cost of causing battering and wear to your slide and barrel, particularly where the barrel locks-up to the slide at the ejection port. Look for a raised edge to get peened up on the inside of the slide at the top of the ejection port, and/or a peened-up raised edge at the top of the exterior chamber portion of the barrel.

Yes, this may well take several thousand rounds to manifest, and yes, you can purchase a new barrel and/or slide more readily than you can purchase a replacement frame, but a broken gun is still broken, regardless of which parts got busted."

=====

Is that personal experience of what has happened to your gun?

If we're just talking theory, that seems plausible, but a lot of other things also seem plausible. For example, I'm totally amazed how the slide itself stays on the damn gun when a bullet is fired. After all, it's just held in by those 4 rails. Also, it seems to me that a recoil spring too light would cause more wear as the slide slams against the frame at full opening. Anyway, the forces you describe seem to be amongst the lightest forces that occur to the gun during the firing process. Note that when the slide comes back into battery, it's not like your hand is holding the frame completely still; your hand is absorbing some of the battery force, acting like a shock absorber.

Harley Quinn
November 2, 2007, 05:02 PM
R&J

Ok, I understand you are comparing the 20 to the 21...

I have a 21 with an after market barrel that shoots the 10mm in my 21. I also have an after market barrel that shoots the 400 Corbon in my 21.

The slide is not lighter :p

Thank you for the information. I figured it out;)

PO2Hammer
November 3, 2007, 01:25 PM
I like a 20 pound spring on my Glock 17L with a tungsten guide rod. On my G-20 I used a 22 pound spring for everything including the .40s&w conversion barrel.

Also the guy who runs Double Tap ammo uses heavy springs in his G-20 and shoots thousands of rounds of very hot 10mm ammo every year and he has not noticed any unusual wear. Glock steel is some of the toughest stuff on the planet.

I think it's prudent not to let the slide slam home without a loaded mag in place to buffer it.

DBR
November 3, 2007, 09:06 PM
If you go to a heavier recoil spring in a Glock it is a good idea to also use Wolff +10% mag springs so the mag can reliably keep up with the higher slide velocity.

Chris Rhines
November 3, 2007, 11:25 PM
I go the opposite way - I run the lightest spring that will fully return the slide to battery. In my Glock 35, that's a 15# ISMI spring with two coils clipped off.

http://www.custom-glock.com/springtech.html

I can't imagine why I would put a heavier spring in my Glock - recovering more of my .40 brass is not worth the heavier recoil, increased muzzle flip, and reduced slide velocity.

Harley Quinn
November 4, 2007, 06:22 AM
Brass Ejection:
It does not matter how far away it lands or if it is in a neat pile. You are there to shoot, not to pick up brass.
*****
The above statement is for a lighter recoil spring. Faster action is also part of it. The damage to the firearm can be increased if you are using heavy loads.

If you followed the advise of the light spring advocate on the heavy hitters (10 mm) you might be wearing out the pistol very soon. Damage is going to occur and you could even be injured.

There is a lot to this slide situation and the competitors have it down to a science to shoot faster and feel less recoil, it is a give and take situation what you give regarding feel to assist a faster second shot, does take its toll on the firearm.

RyanM
November 6, 2007, 08:16 PM
Just in case anyone's interested, Glockmeister has not responded to my inquiry yet, and they've taken their phone number off their webpage, so I can't call. I e-mailed Lone Wolf the same day (I figured that would save time, rather than waiting 3 weeks for no reply, or at best a totally unhelpful reply, from GM), got a reply the same day, and after a couple e-mails back and forth, they are providing a replacement washer (I found the screw, but not the washer, and Lone Wolf's rods are a different brand, anyway) free of charge, even though I didn't even buy the rod from them, only the springs.

I think Lone Wolf has cemented themselves as people to definitely do business with, and Glockmeister as people to avoid.

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