AR with attached shotgun?


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cwmcgu2
November 1, 2007, 08:01 PM
With the proper NFA paperwork would this AR/Shotgun combo be legal? It would be the perfect home defense weapon :neener:

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/images/smallarms/870mcs_AxxWpn.jpg

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Thernlund
November 1, 2007, 08:02 PM
Eh? Is it illegal in the first place?


-T.

EDIT: On second glance, I see the shotgun is short barreled. Hmmm... I dunno the answer.

igpoobah
November 1, 2007, 08:03 PM
The short barrelled shottie would be..

TexasRifleman
November 1, 2007, 08:04 PM
Eh? Is it illegal in the first place?

Yes. Since the shotgun receiver has its own serial number, it would be considered an SBS in that condition.

A legal SBS could be mounted to an AR legally. They are 2 different firearms with 2 different serial numbers.

cwmcgu2
November 1, 2007, 08:04 PM
Well you'd have to have the paperwork for the short barrel shotgun, I'm just curious about the grey area of sticking the two together.

cwmcgu2
November 1, 2007, 08:06 PM
So the shotgun in this setup is intended for just breaching and really doesn't have an anti-personel purpose does it?

plexreticle
November 1, 2007, 08:12 PM
There are a few versions of this type of combo. Often its referred to as a Masterkey since it's used for blowing the hinges off doors using lead powder rounds.

It would make a terrible choice for home defense IMO.

rcmodel
November 1, 2007, 08:17 PM
If you already have an AR carbine, you sure don't need an attached sawed-off shotgun to make it a superior home defense weapon.

The .223 carbine is already considered a superior indoor fighting weapon by most enlightened PD SWAT teams in the U.S.A.

Besides, with another 6-7 pounds of shotgun & mount attached that far out front, all it's gonna do is slow you down.
And most folks couldn't reach the forearm to pump the darn thing without dismounting the AR from the shoulder for each aimed shotgun followup shot.

IMHO: It's a really bad idea to mount a second weapon system on an AR carbine, unless it shoots the 40mm HE grenades Uncle Sam issues to you.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

cwmcgu2
November 1, 2007, 08:24 PM
The "home defense" remark was sarcastic hence the ":neener:" Just want to make it clear that I would not use one of these combos for home defense, way to heavy and overkill.

devilc
November 1, 2007, 08:32 PM
5.56 is a poor choice for home defense.

Acheron
November 1, 2007, 09:15 PM
In that configuration, the shottie is used just for breaching. For that reason, the entire thing is called the "Masterkey" system. It was built by Knight's Armament for use by the military and SWAT teams.

3+1 in the chamber. Weighs about 6 lbs standalone. Definitely not suited for HD. Just get a regular 870.

gunmn74
November 2, 2007, 01:03 AM
I have aways liked that Idea. I like this but they are both pump action.
It would be nice if the .223 was semi-auto and the pump cycled the
12 gauge.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0800/818.htm

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0100/175.htm

KC&97TA
November 2, 2007, 01:23 AM
you want one? Check out this website about 1/4 down the page, Then find a machineist to make a mount for you, probly the cheapest way to go :)

http://www.internationalpolicesupply.net/forsale.htm

I've handled a "masterkey M4", they're heavy. One of the 'contractors' had one on Camp Fallujah, he was a goober, but he had some nice hardware. I've never seen one in the USMC armory. If I remember right it was a Knights Armament model.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/knights_masterkey.html

Who said .223 or 5.56mm isn't good for home defense, ask all the dead insurgents in Iraq what they think... oh yeah there's a key word in there with 2 d's. I won't get into a 5.56mm debate in this thread though!

Okiecruffler
November 2, 2007, 04:58 AM
What makes a good combat round doesn't always make a good home defense round. I have neighbors who would rather I didn't use my 223 for home defense, course they probably don't want me using 12ga slugs either.

I've always wanted one, just be cool to play with, but it's way down on my toy list.

mljdeckard
November 2, 2007, 05:23 AM
For HD? Not really. My 870 on its own is my primary HD weapon. If I used an AR for HD I would load it with Hornady TAP. (Don't start arguing with these guys about .223 for HD, it never ends.)

But I do get a shiver of pleasure, imagining that rifle, with a custom-built .22lr upper, and that gun, with an 18 1/2" barrel, loaded with birdshot, to be used for depletion of jackrabbits. :)

PercyShelley
November 2, 2007, 05:39 AM
I figure that mounting an SBS of some sort under a bullpup would be the way to go, due to the weight distribution being somewhat rearward on the bullpup to begin with.

enfield
November 2, 2007, 10:51 AM
5.56 is a poor choice for home defense.

Agreed. .223 is much better.

Tag
November 2, 2007, 11:41 AM
This setup was in Predator. Arnies indian guide had one.

VirgilCaine
November 2, 2007, 12:29 PM
But I do get a shiver of pleasure, imagining that rifle, with a custom-built .22lr upper, and that gun, with an 18 1/2" barrel, loaded with birdshot, to be used for depletion of jackrabbits.

Man, are you trying to lose weight or something? ;)

I don't think you need a custom made one, .22 uppers are made standard I do believe.

mljdeckard
November 2, 2007, 06:26 PM
Custom in that, it should be a barrel of the correct caliber, which ARs are not.

Double Naught Spy
November 2, 2007, 11:26 PM
So the shotgun in this setup is intended for just breaching and really doesn't have an anti-personel purpose does it?

This sort of setup has been around for awhile, prior to dedicated door breech rounds.

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