Swiss banning most military ammo in private houses


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Jdude
November 1, 2007, 07:17 PM
http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune_de_geneve/english_corner/news/news_detail/(contenu)/96815


Bullets no longer stored at home

| 10h02 Federal lawmakers approve historic new regulations requiring army ammunition to be kept in arsenals, while stopping short of a ban on firearms in Swiss residences.
The Swiss government is tightening regulations for weapons while the senate has approved a general ban on the storing of army ammunition at home. The measures fall short of a ban on keeping military guns in private residences, although left-wing campaigners are planning to launch an initiative to achieve this goal.

The senate on Wednesday voted 35 to five (with two abstentions) in favor of a policy that will require most of the 120,000 active soldiers in the Swiss militia army to store their ammunition in arsenals rather than at home. At an exception will be made for 2,000 men serving as ďfirst respondersĒ and the situation could change if new threats arise. But the new policy is regarded as historic.

Requirements have eased in recent years, but most young men in Switzerland are required to serve in the army for 10 months, with exceptions made for those who do community service work and for medical reasons. The soldiers keep firearms after their service ends. The result is an estimated 1.5 million guns are kept in Swiss homes, including those for hunting and for members of shooting clubs.

Supporters of the initiative to ban all weapons in homes say about 300 deaths are caused annually by Swiss army weapons, many of them as a result of domestic disputes. Surveys show more than a third of suicides involve firearms. The initiative calls for a national gun registry and a ban on the personal use of automatic weapons.

The parliament this week approved restrictions on carrying dangerous weapons and the private purchase of firearms on the Internet without authorization. Under the new law, police can seize items such as baseball bats, metal pipes and chains if it appears they could be used as weapons.

What's going on over there? What does this say about the future of Swiss arms ownership, and how does it apply to the States?

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nobby
November 1, 2007, 07:34 PM
OK. They have to returned their ISSUED ammo but get to KEEP their weapons after they leave the service. What's the fricking problem? I would love to have kept my weapon after leaving the USAF. And no, my weapon wasn't a pencil or a johnson bar.

They can still purchase commercial ammo.

Chipperman
November 1, 2007, 07:34 PM
approved a general ban on the storing of ARMY ammunition at home

This says nothing about non-military ammo.

Ron James
November 1, 2007, 07:37 PM
The world turns, these are different times. Not in my lifetime or prehaps even in yours, but all handguns will be banned in the United States. You can rant and rave, bury them in ammo boxes or what ever, but the time will come.:banghead:

devilc
November 1, 2007, 07:43 PM
We are defeatists here, aren't we? :)

El Tejon
November 1, 2007, 07:43 PM
Ron, we try not to rant and rave here. That's why we organize and fight for our future.:)


Jdude, I think your thread title is misleading.

What does it say about the Swiss? That they are infested with blissninnies just as we are.:D

Cosmoline
November 1, 2007, 07:46 PM
The last bastion of liberty in Europe is falling? It looks like the EU Socialists are doing to Switzerland what the Kaiser and Hitler never could. While not all the Swiss have been drinking the Koolaide, the signs don't look good at all.

This says nothing about non-military ammo.

I hope someone from Switzerland gets on here and clarifies. Much may have been lost in translation. IIRC there is a box or two of ammo that can ONLY be opened in case of national emergency which is kept in reserve at home. This isn't personal ammo but it belongs to the state. I don't know if they're talking about just this stuff, or any ammo for the military weapons.

Jdude
November 1, 2007, 07:47 PM
Thread title fixed, thanks for pointing that out guys. Sounded clear when I said it in my head :P

ProficientRifleman
November 1, 2007, 07:48 PM
The world turns, these are different times. Not in my lifetime or prehaps even in yours, but all handguns will be banned in the United States. You can rant and rave, bury them in ammo boxes or what ever, but the time will come.

Ron, why don't you go ahead and turn YOUR'S in now. I have just decided that YOU don't need to have handguns.

PR

Jdude
November 1, 2007, 08:05 PM
The final paragraph in the article says:
The parliament this week approved restrictions on carrying dangerous weapons and the private purchase of firearms on the Internet without authorization. Under the new law, police can seize items such as baseball bats, metal pipes and chains if it appears they could be used as weapons.

Seems that the blissninnys have won this round in Switzerland. I wonder if they would be willing to take our assistance in building a list of things we believe are capable of being used as weapons? Pencils, plates, babies, automobiles, ovens and so on. All of these things have been used one time or another as weapons. I am curious how this will play out.

Slugless
November 1, 2007, 08:24 PM
:what::what::what:

It gets worse. Far worse. I know a Swiss guy and guess what he said?

They are considering abolishing their entire military.

:what::what::what:

Talk about no sense of history and demographics. What a legacy to leave your great grandchildren. They'll be reduced to rolling rocks down on the same peoples who laid siege to Austria, conquered Spain, conquered Paris suburbs and more.

Cosmoline
November 1, 2007, 08:31 PM
They are considering abolishing their entire military.


Well why not? Europe is one big happy family now, right? 10,000 years of perpetual conflict have been cured by socialism, and never again will there be ANY threat to the Swiss. Of course, there won't be any Swiss either.

Zedicus
November 1, 2007, 09:12 PM
this is probably just something to shut up the EU for now.

Ron James
November 1, 2007, 09:14 PM
I'm not sure why they called this forum the High Road. I've noticed that if you make a statement of fact that isn't appreciated or gos against the grain then several posters start getting personal and nasty. Wow. Defeatist, I don't think so, I've never quit yet but I also know when to start building an ark. Proficient Rifleman ( nice and humble name) why do you feel I should turn my weapons in now? Just what are your qualifications, just curious. I didn't post that it was a good thing, nor did I post it was the right thing, nor I don't think I posted that it should be done. Why and who are you to say " you've decided I should not have firearms and should turn them in". I posted the the world turns and as it turns things change, attitude changes. lifestyle changes. When I was a 15 year old kid in Florida I purchased a used .22 handgun in a surplus store. No question, no background check, cash and carry, can you do that now? At one time you could buy firearms in the mail. All the gun magazines had pages and pages of ads for hand guns and rifles, can you do that now? I brought a .S&W 357 through the Spiegel Catalog. Came in the mail a week later, can you you do that now? I could go on and on. We who believe in the 2nd amendment are in the minority and unfortunately our group is getting smaller. Simply fact of life , I don't plan of quiting the fight, but I also know sooner or later the war will be lost. Sample statement, My HO. By the way , I'm a Life member of the NRA, have been for 40 years, are you even a member?? Just curious. I also served 26 Years in the army , served in Vietnam , Grenada, Panama, two Purple Hearts and a Bronze star for Valor. I think I've earned the right to express my opinion as long as I do so in a civil manner, or do you disagree with that also? Just curious.

pinstripe
November 1, 2007, 09:23 PM
The man is intitled to his opinion. It may not be the same opinion as mine, but it is his opinion. If we all thought alike, would this not be a very boring forum?

Carry on and play nice!

Slugless
November 1, 2007, 09:28 PM
all handguns will be banned in the United States

I'm not sure that's a statement of fact. But if I were a betting man I'd bet Ron's right.

And yes, be nice. It costs nothing.

In the meantime, if we don't like what we see the Swiss, Brits, Aussies & others are doing that means we have a job to do.

??Abolish their entire military??

RonE
November 1, 2007, 10:00 PM
I sent the following to my friends in Switzerland. I will post their replys if they reply in a timely manner.

Erwin,

What is going on in Switzerland? Have some people from California taken
over the country?

How are you guys doing?

Ron

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=313462

Green Lantern
November 1, 2007, 10:02 PM
:( :( :( ....

Well, so long as the Swiss are allowed to buy commercial ammo.

Some people think "Switzerland" when asked to come up with another country with a responsible, armed populace. I tend to think more of Israel myself. Is it a REQUIREMENT that an armed chaperone go along on school functions in Switzerland?

Lucky
November 1, 2007, 10:09 PM
I thought it was part of the mobilization strategy that the men kept arms and ammunition at home because any situation where they'd be called for would be so fluid that they'd likely have to fight their way to the rally point. Stupid commies, they're so focused on disarming everyone and creating secret police agencies.

But yea, it's the leftists at it. Horrible Irony, the USSR fell, as the KGB sponsored groups in western countries gained mainstream popularity. Fricking ridiculous that literal enemies of the state are dictating state policies. History's most successful 5th column, afaic.

Kim
November 1, 2007, 10:10 PM
Here is something I have not figured out yet. There seems to be world wide leftists who seem to hold mostly the same ideology. I have yet to see USA classical liberalism or even USA Conservatism as a world wide ideology. Why is this. Am I just wrong. Sure Capitalism is spreading but it is still a lefy type with a large welfare state but I am speaking of the ideas of our Founders. That idea of FREEDOM and LIBERTY seems to be perverted everwhere else even in our own country. I feel like an ant and the world is trying to step on my hill.

C. Rabbit
November 1, 2007, 10:25 PM
Mr. James,
I would argue gun bans are not inevitable, and invite you to look at some figures from Gallup polls regarding feelings on gun control:
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

In short, in 1990 41 percent of people wanted to ban handguns. That figure is now 30 percent. Also in 1990, 78 percent of people wanted stricter gun control laws. Now only 51 percent do. Perfect? No, but much improved.

It has improved because of tireless efforts to support the RKBA. Let's not give up the fight now.

This example in Switzerland is troubling, as it seems to indicate to me that antis have managed to get a law passed using emotional pleas, as they did in the US in the 1990s. Does anyone know of Swiss gun rights organizations? They may have to get some started if they don't want to cede the legislative field to the antis.

CR

ArmedBear
November 1, 2007, 10:36 PM
Kim-

American exceptionalism. It's not BS. It is important, actually, unless there is a widespread classical liberalism movement.

But it's been that way since 1776.

Was the French Revolution like ours? The Russian Revolution? Anything south of us?

Did Europeans ever really outgrow the idea of being subjects, even if they have few kings or emperors left?

Hell no. I'm the first native-born American in my family, and I will attest: hell no they haven't.

strat81
November 1, 2007, 10:43 PM
Ron, why don't you go ahead and turn YOUR'S in now. I have just decided that YOU don't need to have handguns.
??? I don't think Ron was advocating the prohibition of handguns. He was stating a possibility for the future. Yes, it is bleak, but it is certainly feasible. His latter post illustrates the losses in 2A freedoms over the past ~75 years. We have gone from mail-order guns to registries of machine guns, registration of arms in certain jurisdictions, background checks, licenses, permits, "smart" guns, microstamping, magazine capacity limits, and even outright bans of certain hardware. I'm not stating such laws are effective at reducing crime, but they do exist and they certainly infringe on the RKBA, at least for law-abiding citizens.

Is the tide turning? Many point to the surge in shall-issue states which IS positive. The sunset of the '94 AWB was also positive. The internet has also been a huge benefit by bringing people together to discuss safety, activism, politics, technique, and hardware. However, the strength the Democrats are showing for the 2008 elections is scary. A case will most likely be heard by SCOTUS re: RKBA in our nation's capital. "Mayors against Illegal Guns" shows no signs (IMHO) of slowing down. And we have a generation of children who really think that the 2A is about hunting and the National Guard.

Attacking Ron James because his opinion was bleak isn't right.


But as to the original topic...
This says nothing about non-military ammo.
You're right, it doesn't. But, if there's one thing US gun-grabbers have taught me, it's that they'll slowly chip away until there is nothing left.

Perhaps some Swiss members can tell us about the availability of commercial ammo. Is it hard to get? Is there some kind of registry or licensing system in place to buy it?

Pilgrim
November 1, 2007, 10:48 PM
It gets worse. Far worse. I know a Swiss guy and guess what he said?

They are considering abolishing their entire military.
This is probably a result of the Swiss army's success in preventing invasion for so many years. The average Swiss is so comfortable he feels no need for a military organization.

Pilgrim

bulgron
November 1, 2007, 10:50 PM
If Heller goes our way, they'll have an awfully hard time of banning handguns unless they either repeal the constitution or, at a minimum, repeal the second amendment.

Could it happen? Sure. If you don't teach your children the importance of RKBA.

The other side is never going to give up, so we can't either.

Jeff White
November 2, 2007, 12:38 AM
Pilgrim has it right. In 1989 plans were made to dismantle the US military. There plans were made by a republican president, George HW Bush. It was widely belived after the fall of the Soviet Union that there would never be the need to deploy more then a brigade task force again. The drawdown was just about to start when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in August of 1990. We deployed 100s of thousands of troops to accomplish the limited mission of removing Iraqi forces from Kuwait. By 1992 the drawdown was starting. We beat a 5th rate army so handily that it reinforced the mistaken notion that war had fundamentally changed.

The Clinton administration gleefully followed the Bush plan to draw the military down. In 2000 George W Bush campaigned on the platform of restoring the US military, yet after the election his defense department proposed further cuts in the military infrastructure. It was only after 3 years of war in Iraq straining the ground forces to the breaking point and the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense did we acknowledge that our force structure was too small to possibly accomplish all of our obligations.

During the drawdown, which was continuing until last year, those in the defense establishment who spoke out against it were derisivly referred to as Cold War Dinosauers.

So it's real easy to accept that the Swiss have been lulled into a sense of false security and are ready to disarm. The same thing has happened to the American poeple.

Jeff

LAK
November 2, 2007, 04:51 AM
How sad to watch the overthrow in the now very familiar (to me at least) predictable pattern of the forced change of Switzerland. One of the last civilized countries with stable old world culture.

It is a terrible pity that having known the prospective agents, their agenda, and having seen the m.o. in action in much of europa and here in the U.S., the Swiss did not take the initiative and pre-emptively deal with these destroyers as we should have done a long time ago.

The Swiss people however do still have a chance; but it would take some swift organizing and action. This highlights once again the fact that socialist ideology needs to be stamped out; not tolerated as some "legitimate political alternative". It should have been banished right alongside it's twin sibling of nazism.

----------------------------------

http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

mljdeckard
November 2, 2007, 06:18 AM
Jeff is absolutely right. Clinton is often INCORRECTLY blamed for reducing the size of our military, when the truth is, Bush I is actually responsible for the bulk of the troop cuts.

There are many conservative people in europe, (Ok, SOMEWHAT conservative) who feel that the EU is a cinspiracy to encroach on the sovereignity of individual nations. The fact that the plan is for the EU to HAVE ITS OWN TROOPS concerns them greatly.

Of course, I remind them that it was their idea to try to unify Europe in the model of the U.S., and they can't have it both ways.

Ithaca37
November 2, 2007, 08:04 AM
Some people think "Switzerland" when asked to come up with another country with a responsible, armed populace. I tend to think more of Israel myself.

Not so much.... http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

The Swiss people however do still have a chance

They do. Unlike the US the people of Switzerland have a direct democracy (or about as close as you are going to get int he modern world) and can change the course of national politics.

LaEscopeta
November 2, 2007, 08:18 AM
Was the French Revolution like ours? The Russian Revolution? Anything south of us?If this is to imply there were no executions of civilians or prisoners during the American Revolution, like there was during the French, Russian and other revolutions, I think you should look up the origin of the word “lynching.” (Also just because Americans did it does not mean it is good or even necessary to win a Revolution.)

In 1989 plans were made to dismantle the US military.I remember Gen. Powell and others in the military testifying before Congress about the draw down of US forces after the break up of the Soviet Union. They recounted the problems caused by the poorly planned drawn down after WWII and how it lead to poorly trained, under equipped US troops at the start of the Korean War. I remember the G.H.W. Bush White House saying things like we are starting down a path with our former adversaries the Russians, and neither of us knows quite where the path will lead, except it leads to a place less bad than the heavily armed standoff we have had for the last 40+ years. I’m afraid I’m not remembering the plans “to dismantle the US military.”

It was only after 3 years of war in Iraq straining the ground forces to the breaking point …did we acknowledge that our force structure was too small to possibly accomplish all of our obligations.I’m also remembering that shortly after the end of the Vietnam War the Defense Department set the size of US forces to be able to fight 2 wars at once. After the break up of the Soviet Union, the size of the 2 simultaneous wars planned for was reduced (no longer planning for a Warsaw Pact invasion of Europe.) Since March of 2003 we have been fighting those 2 simultaneous wars, and we have been doing it longer than we fought WWII. I believe it is our failure to win either of these wars outright, or at least beat the enemy down significantly, that is causing the current situation of the US not “possibly accomplish all of our obligations”, not a too small force structure.

(And not to go political but I’m blaming our failure to win on the current Pres. Bush and his advisors failure to understand. (“An invasion of Iraq will be like when we liberated France! The Iraqis will love us!” “Oil revenue will pay for Iraq Reconstruction!” “Iraq has WMDs!”)

Novus Collectus
November 2, 2007, 11:04 AM
This from the article: Supporters of the initiative to ban all weapons in homes say about 300 deaths are caused annually by Swiss army weapons, many as a result of domestic disputes. What bull!! In 2003 there were only 187 murders and in 2005 there were only 204 murders of all kinds!! The number of murders where a firearms were used was only 48!! The number of suicides using any firearm is 271 in 2005. That includes non-military issued guns, former military issue guns and non-military civillian guns including smuggled guns. It is an outright lie to claim that all the murders and suicides were committed by guns currently issued by the military.
Once again the gun control freaks are blatantly missrepresenting the numbers to scare the public.

Jeff White
November 2, 2007, 11:20 AM
Once again the gun control freaks are blatantly missrepresenting the numbers to scare the public.

Is there anyone who's surprised by this?

Jeff

Novus Collectus
November 2, 2007, 11:31 AM
Heh heh, I guess I am speaking to the choir. :o

ilcylic
November 2, 2007, 11:42 AM
If this is to imply there were no executions of civilians or prisoners during the American Revolution, like there was during the French, Russian and other revolutions, I think you should look up the origin of the word “lynching.” (Also just because Americans did it does not mean it is good or even necessary to win a Revolution.)

I'm pretty sure that's not what he was getting at at all.

The American revolution has been essentially unique in it's goal and drive to establish of Freedom from Government, as much as possible. Yes, I know it looks like a complete failure today, but it was the original goal. The French and Russian revolutions mostly had the goal of "putting different people in power".

Kim: As to why socialism spreads, and capitalism doesn't... well, as my friend Arf says, "Liberty is scary". Socialism promises to take care of you, to cuddle you, to wrap you in mommy's arms. (Even if it fails miserably, it still promises.) Capitalism says "I'm not going to do anything for you. You have to do it yourself. But you get the luxury of making your own choices."

I'm willing to trade security for liberty. (Please note word order in that sentence. ;) ) Most people don't seem to grasp what they are losing when they default to wanting to be taken care of.

----

The story of the Fall, as I was told it, goes something like this. YHVH asked his sons, Yeshuah and Lucifer, what should be done with all the angels He had created, and the new world which lay before Him. Lucifer said, "I will make them all behave, and they will all come back to glory, and I will be praised." Yeshuah responded, "I will give them free will. Some will fail, but many will return, and You will be praised." Two thirds of the hosts sided with Yeshuah, one third sided with Lucifer, Lucifer and his angels were cast out of Heaven, and humanity was given free will.

Now, I draw two conclusions from this story, and one of them I won't mention here because it's not relevant. But the relevant one is, according to this story, we're supposed to have the option to make bad choices, so our good ones actually mean something. Socialism (and many, many other actions of "government") takes that option away from us.

Green Lantern
November 2, 2007, 12:11 PM
Not so much.... http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

:( Depressing, but educational. Thanks for the info!

xsquidgator
November 2, 2007, 01:06 PM
I'm willing to trade security for liberty. (Please note word order in that sentence. ) Most people don't seem to grasp what they are losing when they default to wanting to be taken care of.

Not to get too political, but am I the only pro-2A person who's a little bothered about Fred Thompson's campaign signs with the 3 slogans? "Security" being the first word? I want to like him but that whole security at the expense of liberty thing has me concerned.

Phil DeGraves
November 2, 2007, 01:15 PM
Are they banning possession of military caliber ammo (restricted to military only, like Mexico) or just the FMJ military issued ammo? If it's military issued ammo, I have no problem with them keeping the military's ammo in the military's arsenal. If they are restricting all ammo in the military caliber, then what good is it to keep the gun after your term of service since you would not be allowed to have ammo for it?

Lucky
November 2, 2007, 01:29 PM
It's the end of pictures like this that make me sad now.

Mannlicher
November 2, 2007, 01:33 PM
Reading the responses here often warms the cockles of my heart.
Who would guess that we have so many absolutely perfect members? Who would think that so many would constantly pontificate, and put down their fellow member's opinions?
A simple statement of your views would suffice, bashing those of others is just poor form.

That said, it looks like the Swiss are circling the drain, just like we are.

Deer Hunter
November 2, 2007, 01:42 PM
For their sake, I hope they fight it.

Beatnik
November 2, 2007, 02:03 PM
Regarding revolutions: I see the point about the US revolution resulting in limited government and protections from it... but only as an adult.
As a kid, I was taught that the whole thing was about taxation.
And then came my first vote, and the ballot issue was to raise taxes... so even that message didn't come forward cleanly.
I suggest that's why it doesn't look the way you describe.

Regarding the military: well, regardless of who wants to slash what, will someone explain where all of this comes from, anyway?
Seems to me that in 1941 we had squat, and in 1945 we had won. Four years from nothing to juggernaut.
If we stopped playing Team America, and took more of a Swiss approach to things - as in, every citizen belongs to this organization, let's call it "the militia" - wouldn't that necessitate more gun ownership, and pretty much silence the opposition?

Regarding the OP: why bother to point at other countries at all?
I'm perfectly comfortable being an ugly American, as long as I'm not on their soil, anyway. We do things our way, it's the right way, and if you don't like it, tough. I don't know why we need tiny countries rife with conflict to make our point for us.
Which is not to say I don't want to be friends: I just don't like the idea of our friends telling us what to do, and I don't like being ashamed to stand alone and say "this is the way we're going to do it".

And don't forget eastern Europe. I keep hearing things are different there. They came out of communism, and they get it.

quatin
November 2, 2007, 02:13 PM
I thought the Swiss can't keep commercial ammo. Wasn't it that they can only buy ammo at the range and all ammo bought must be used at the range before leaving.

Cosmoline
November 2, 2007, 02:30 PM
So it's real easy to accept that the Swiss have been lulled into a sense of false security and are ready to disarm. The same thing has happened to the American poeple

The analogy is flawed. The Founders of this nation feared a large standing army, and with good reason. Until the Cold War era we had always made a habit of pulling apart the military force after a war. Like the Swiss, we relied not on a vast standing Army but a militia of the people. I would love to see the military drawn down and overseas bases folded up. I would also love to see all those weapons being handed over to the people. We are the nation, we should be our own protectors. The notion of relying on a small cadre of uniformed soldiers and contractors to do our defense work is anathema to the American character, and a sign of our decline. I hate the idea of any uniform protecting me. It goes hand in glove with the notion that I should be kept unarmed, warm and fed by the socialist mother/government.

Elza
November 2, 2007, 03:22 PM
Cosmoline: I would also love to see all those weapons being handed over to the people.I like your idea but I suspect that those weapons would see a grinder long before ‘We, the people’ ever got our hands on them.

Elza
November 2, 2007, 03:46 PM
Ron, 10 years ago I would have agreed with you. Now Iím not so sure. While still a very real threat I donít believe that it is now imminent. A few things have changed in our favor. Not as much as I would like to see, certainly, but better than it was even a few years ago.

All things are cyclic. The great wave of liberalism that swept this country seems to be receding somewhat. At least I certainly hope so.

The internet has made a huge difference. It allows like-minded folks to keep informed and politically active. Few would bother to write a letter to their elected representatives, perhaps a few more would call, but hammering out e-mail is quick and easy. Inundating a politician with e-mail will get his/her attention.

But the biggest plus is the dissemination of information. People are waking up to the fact that the MSM is lying, agenda-driven scum. They are finding out that the truth is anything but what they hear from the MSM. Their lies donít hold up well when viewed in the cold, harsh light of reality.

So hang in there. Think what it looked like 5 or 10 years ago. Things have improved. Is it enough to stem the tide of the anti-gunners? I donít know. But at least we have a fighting chance now.

ernunnos
November 2, 2007, 07:33 PM
Ron,

Cheer up, man! If you've been around as long as you say, you remember the '90s. As I look back on the arguments we used to have in talk.politics.guns, I realize we won. Many of the gun control arguments we used to be so passionate about are now totally discredited. There's a lot more pro-gun scholarship, at least one anti-gun scholar has lost his job, the assault weapon ban expired, more states than ever have concealed carry, and thanks to online discussion groups and video, more people are getting exposed to the gun culture. Which is also becoming a lot more broad, encompassing a much younger and more diverse audience. Even inflation is helping us out, reducing the tax on restricted weapons, allowing them to become more common, and less terrifying to the average person.

It takes hard work, but we should enjoy our success when we can get it. And we can get it.

Novus Collectus
November 2, 2007, 07:48 PM
I thought the Swiss can't keep commercial ammo. Wasn't it that they can only buy ammo at the range and all ammo bought must be used at the range before leaving. I am not Swiss, but this is what I understand from my reading.
The Swiss can buy ammo at the range without showing ID or having their ammo purchase recorded, but they are supposed to use the ammo while at the range.
The Swiss can buy rifle and pistol ammo at the store and take it home with them, but they have to show ID and sign for it I think.
The Swiss are allowed to reload their own too.

People hunt in Switzerland too and if they were not allowed to take any ammo home with them, then how could they?

LAK
November 3, 2007, 01:45 PM
I do not believe for a second that the Swiss have been lulled into any spirit of disarming. What we are seeing are the surface headlines and other published highlights. Underneath more likely there is a very forceful coup in progress - much like here in the late 1950s into the 1960s. The change agents no doubt had the majority of Swiss media sewn up early on in the game.

The Swiss could make a good stand having seen this agenda in operation everywhere else. They do not need to waste any time in mounting a counter-attack and could do what should have been done in this country fifty years ago.

paramedic70002
November 4, 2007, 12:19 PM
This law is what anti-gunners call a "step."

wahsben
November 4, 2007, 12:53 PM
Chances are good that if the anti-gunners get their way that crime will go up in Switzerland like it did in the UK and elsewhere.

col_tapiocca
November 4, 2007, 02:33 PM
Our parliament issued a new law
to ban ordinance ammo of active service man. They are 50rounds GP90 for a soldier and 20 rounds for a officer. Regulations for civilian used weapon and ammo are still the same.

The Swiss can buy ammo at the range without showing ID or having their ammo purchase recorded, but they are supposed to use the ammo while at the range.
The Swiss can buy rifle and pistol ammo at the store and take it home with them, but they have to show ID and sign for it I think.

That's absolutely right.
We can buy ammo Military round (only GP90, GP11 and 9mm) on governmental / army subsidized shooting ranges at reduced price. But you "should not" take it home.
Commercial Ammo are still obtainable with a swiss ID / passport.

This law is what anti-gunners call a "step."
It's sadly truth! The tactics are around the world the same. We lost our rights piecewise.
Next argument of our anti-gunners will be: Since the service man don't have the ammo at home, why do they need their rifle at home?

Just for your infomation:
Before 1999 all weapon except handguns and full-automatics are obtainable without any licence or paperwork. Just get in to the gun shop show a ID, sign and pay and It's yours!
Carry a gun was free in most cantons (Swiss word for State) before 1999!
But since the new federal gun law of 1999 things changed.
Now switzerland is not saver at all.

And for those who don't know yet: Switzerland is not a member of the European Union. Fortunately :rolleyes:

Slugless
November 4, 2007, 03:59 PM
Colonel,

What's the story on abolishing the Swiss military? My colleague is an ethnic german Swiss who says it's "being considered."

Does that just mean a couple of politicians have said something to that effect or is someone proposing a referendum?

Thnks.

col_tapiocca
November 4, 2007, 04:46 PM
Colonel,

What's the story on abolishing the Swiss military? My colleague is an ethnic german Swiss who says it's "being considered."

Does that just mean a couple of politicians have said something to that effect or is someone proposing a referendum?

Thnks.
Years ago we'd a popular vote about abolishing the swiss army. But most people voted no. So we keep our army.
But the antis don't give up.

willbrink
November 4, 2007, 05:23 PM
Ah, we all know how smart it is to store all your ammo in a few easy to find locations during times of war.....:barf:

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