Winchester 1300 bolt opening!


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Matt304
November 3, 2007, 07:34 PM
My Winchester 1300 20ga slug gun is almost brand new. Maybe 20 shots have been fired from it total.

Last year I sighted it in, and was getting 1" groups at 70 yards with Lightfield sabots. I noticed that after a few of the last shots, the bolt was slightly opened, and assumed this was from the recoil on a rest grabbing the handle after the shot.

Today I pulled the gun back out to make sure it was still sighted in ok.

At about 70 yards, the first shot hit about 10" low below the target. As did the second. I adjusted the scope, brought the target way in to about 30 yards, and it was throwing them all over the target. Something was not right.

After every shot, the bolt is almost fully opened and the case is exposed. I was shooting on a wadded up blanket as a rest, and it grabbed the blanket and caught between the handle and feed tube, and completely ripped it having so much kick back from the bolt. This is definitely not from me simply resting the gun; it doesn't have that much recoil to tear the blanket this bad from simply moving.

How in the heck is the bolt opening like this? Should Winchester fix it for me? Could they do it by hunting season, in less than 3 weeks?

I'm starting to think that a bolt-action shotgun is the way to go and never look back.

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Z71
November 3, 2007, 08:04 PM
Nothing wrong. Thats the way the thing was designed. If you read the destruction manual, the feature is called "fast action" or something like that. Basicaly means that the weight of your arm during recoil starts the action opening.

I have a Winchester 1300 Defender. Duing the first few shots I didn't notice the action opening during recoil. After the gun broke in, it would open under recoil. Not opening during actual firing, but during the recoil impulse. Its a normal feature of the gun designed to make follow-up shots quicker.

wcwhitey
November 3, 2007, 08:09 PM
Z71 is correct, I also think the term is "Fast Action". It is supposed to make the pump smoother. I have a 1300 XTR that I use for trap and upland game. Makes it faster and smoother than say an 870. Enjoy, Bill

Milkmaster
November 3, 2007, 08:11 PM
My 1300 says "Speed Feed" on the side of the barrel. The bolt will open and eject the shell completely before I even notice while shooting trap. My left hand has become accustomed to it. On doubles all I have to remember is to push it closed again and fire.

Pete409
November 3, 2007, 08:12 PM
Yep, it was designed that way. As long as the action remains tightly closed until you pull the trigger, everything is just fine.

Matt304
November 3, 2007, 09:18 PM
Hmm. I'm having a hard time believing that this ammo simply shoots off the target this year. The gun has just sat in a gun case. And that still doesn't explain horrendous grouping at 30 yards, which almost seems impossible to me. I bragged about this gun last year it shot so well. My groups look like they should be 150 yard shotgun groups, and I am rested, with a dead center hold and no movement. How does the pump have enough energy to devour a blanket that I have to rip out to push the pump forward? It is like a semi-auto bolt opening, as if pressure is throwing it back, not recoil. This cannot be right. One of my cases looks like it has a ring where pressure caused it to bulge slightly and scrape the chamber upon ejecting. If this is all in my head, and this is just the gun, this is very unassuring that it shoots so horrible suddenly with the best ammo from last year.

Z71
November 4, 2007, 01:00 AM
Well...Maybe better take it to a smith for a check over. Better than destroying the gun and/or your face!

A quick check to see if it's locking would be to unload the gun, pump the thing to cock it and lock the bolt, then try to jack the slide without pulling the trigger. If it will move the bolt back without pulling the trigger or pushing the release, then you for sure got a problem!

Don't know about the accuracy thing.

WAID
November 4, 2007, 02:26 AM
Any chance the scope mount or something inside the scope is loose?

I have an older 1200 and it behaves the same as everyone else is describing on their 1300's. I really prefer it to the 500s and 870s my friends have. The action is supposed to open as soon as the pressure in the chamber drops to a safe level. As I understand it, the pressure from firing pushes the locking lugs against the barrel and keeps it from opening until pressure drops, kinda like on a 1911. Maybe to much grease or something if you use that could cause something like that but I doubt it. A trip to the gunsmith can't hurt, and would be a whole lot better than a ruined shotgun or worse.

Pete409
November 4, 2007, 08:45 AM
Matt,

You are describing two different problems. The first one (the action coming unlocked upon firing the shell) has nothing to do with the second one (lack of accuracy).

Of course, as explained above, the first one is not really a "problem" at all. It is simply the way the gun is designed.

As for accuracy, go back to square one and start again. Check the scope mounts. Re-sight in the scope. Check the bore and choke tube (if any). Check the ammo. Check the way you are holding the gun. Squeeze, don't jerk, the trigger. ETC. , ETC, ETC.

Dave McCracken
November 4, 2007, 08:51 AM
I'll wager the usual flagon of mead that after you zeroed and hunted last year you pulled the barrel to clean it. When you put it back together your zero was history.

With the shots now going "All over", my guess is there's now slop in the barrel/receiver connection. Betcha that if you grab the barrel and twist it, it'll move in relation to the receiver. Tighten up the mag cap with padded pliers one click past hand tight and see what that does,

Alternately, your scope may have gone south. Cheap scopes do not hold up to 12 gauge recoil for long.

AZ_Rebel
November 4, 2007, 01:21 PM
The rotary bolts of the Winchester Deer Guns have a very tight lock-up that secures the shell in the chamber. The four lug rotary lock is similar to the AR-15. This locks firmly into the chamber of the barrel, trapping the pressure in the height of the firing cycle. It then removes the pressure from the receiver, adding speed and safety in the firing cycle. The bolt unlocks and uses the remaining pressure to travel rearwards. There is nothing wrong with the way your gun is functioning.

The accuracy "problem" is most likely related to your scope or to the way it is mounted. Or, as Dave MaCracken said, that you pulled the barrel and screwed the zero.

rcmodel
November 4, 2007, 01:56 PM
Should Winchester fix it for me?Good luck with that.
They went bankrupt and closed the doors two years ago.
They don't even sell 1300 parts anymore.

But I agree, what some of us view as a design defect, Winchester called a design feature (Fast-Action Pump).

Some of the early 1200 12 ga guns would blow open with Mag loads and leave a friction blister on your pump hand where the impressed forearm checkering slipped through it so fast. :eek:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Z71
November 4, 2007, 02:54 PM
Not so sure that FN isn't still marketing a version of the Winchester pump under it's own label. Don't know if it's parts are compatable with a 1300 or not, but the last gun catalog I looked at showed a defensive oriented FN pump that sure looked a lot like a 1300 Defender!

rcmodel
November 4, 2007, 03:13 PM
Yep! Thats it, and the FN sniper rifle is a Model 70 too.
But they no longer support Winchester parts & repair.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

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