Open Letter to Volk


PDA






Bainx
November 3, 2007, 08:58 PM
Oleg, one of our members charges that you are directly responsible for this article by The Knoxville News Sentinel:

http://www.wbir.com/news/maps/handguns.aspx

Please tell me this is not the case!

Signed,
Bainx

If you enjoyed reading about "Open Letter to Volk" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
average_shooter
November 3, 2007, 09:06 PM
:confused: Huh?

CannibalCrowley
November 3, 2007, 09:07 PM
That's not even an article.

JerryM
November 3, 2007, 09:12 PM
The link did not open for me.
Jerry

Bainx
November 3, 2007, 09:13 PM
Perhaps I should have been more direct. You click on a
Tennessee county and up come flags with the addresses of those who have a CCW. mod edit - Incorrect, the information is a composite of census data for the census tract and the population and number of TN HCP holders. There are no names or addresses or any specific information to any individual.

Do I need to repeat myself.
Do you get it?
Are you internet savy enough to figure it out?

Gee......

mod edit - non THR rudeness and name calling removed

bluestarlizzard
November 3, 2007, 09:14 PM
click the bold writing "commentary explaining the map"
slightly disturbed, yet understanding. it was a socialogical experiment, that resulted in data that could be used for or against gun owners.

average_shooter
November 3, 2007, 09:15 PM
The map itself aside, you are claiming Oleg is responsible. Care to explain how?

Slugless
November 3, 2007, 09:19 PM
one of our members

One of who's members?

It is rude and inappropriate to abuse Jerry.

Bainx
November 3, 2007, 09:22 PM
Yes, glad you asked...
one of our members stated in the blog that Oleg was directly responsible for this...
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wbir/TUBKMQK28IHHP456V/p13#lastPost

Well, there it is.

Wild Deuce
November 3, 2007, 09:24 PM
There is a link above the map that links to the "article" about carry permits.

Bainx
November 3, 2007, 09:26 PM
I am beginning to wonder about the motives of our founder of this website.

average_shooter
November 3, 2007, 09:28 PM
Well, do you have any evidence that Oleg encouraged this?

The poster on that other blog, "Joe Milkor," stated:

PS: It was interesting to find out that Oleg Volk encouraged staff members of the paper on their project. Check THR.

I saw no supporting evidence, and thus refuse to condemn anyone...

Regolith
November 3, 2007, 09:29 PM
Riiighhhttt.....Interesting how that person provided no evidence beyond "check THR". Can you find the thread in these forums where Oleg states he "encouraged" these people?

LkWinnipesaukee
November 3, 2007, 09:31 PM
I think if you are wrong, one could argue you libelled Oleg...

bluestarlizzard
November 3, 2007, 09:36 PM
average_shooter, i agree with you. it does not behoove anyone to jump to conclusions about the writers of this artical. and while i agree that posting aderesses of CCW holders by a media sorce is NOT responcible journalism, i see in the writing of the artical no indicatation of anti gun tatics, but rather a amatures attempt to do a sociological study about CCW holders and failing to prove a thesis one way or another.
the map should be taken down. the tables and artical may remain.

Slugless
November 3, 2007, 09:39 PM
There is a link above the map that links to the "article" about carry permits.

That's all I saw. A census map.

There is a statement that CCW permits are public record.

Am I missing something?

Or am I just not internet savvy enough to figure it out?

average_shooter
November 3, 2007, 09:40 PM
Hmmm... Did I miss the addresses? I admit I only took a cursory glance at the map setup, but I didn't see any actual addresses posted. I saw the general area of interest marked.

I would agree, though, that names and addresses should not be posted in such a fashion. And I agree with the assessment that this was simply an amateurish attempt at a sociological study.

EDIT TO ADD:
this is an example of the information I got off the map;
Knox
Permits: 10
Population: 2726
Urban pop:2726
Rural pop: 0
White pop: 760
Black pop: 1908
Pop in family households: 1830
Median income: $15427

As for addresses, I believe the info boxes on the map simply represent the geographic center of the individual areas of interest, not the address of permit holders. Maybe I'm still missing something...?

EDIT TO ADD (Again):
I'm also a cartography minor and would just like to say that most of the maps in that article are absolutely crap-tacular.

Geno
November 3, 2007, 09:41 PM
Bainx said:

I am beginning to wonder about the motives of our founder of this website.

Frankly, sir, I feel you should have taken it up in private with Oleg. It's called verify.

BainX also stated:

Perhaps I should have been more direct. You click on a
Tennessee county and up come flags with the addresses of those who have a CCW.

Do I need to repeat myself.
Do you get it?
Are you internet savy enough to figure it out?

Gee......


edited: hell Jerry it opened up for me.
Damn son, are you that stupid?

BainX:

Allow me to be the first to point the way to the door if you're unhappy at THR. This is Oleg's house. We don't call people stupid either. Read the rules. Take The High Road.

Doc2005

plexreticle
November 3, 2007, 09:48 PM
Perhaps I should have been more direct. You click on a
Tennessee county and up come flags with the addresses of those who have a CCW.

Do I need to repeat myself.
Do you get it?
Are you internet savy enough to figure it out?

Gee......


edited: hell Jerry it opened up for me.
Damn son, are you that stupid?

Pure class.



If you have a problem with Oleg why do you PM him instead of troll baiting your tinfoil hat drama all over his forum.

Are you internet savvy enough to figure it out or are you just stupid?

nwilliams
November 3, 2007, 09:50 PM
Perhaps I should have been more direct. You click on a
Tennessee county and up come flags with the addresses of those who have a CCW.

Do I need to repeat myself.
Do you get it?
Are you internet savy enough to figure it out?

Gee......


edited: hell Jerry it opened up for me.
Damn son, are you that stupid?

My god man what is your problem! You have a serious attitude issue going on here, calling people stupid and making accusations isn't very THR. If you have a problem take it up with that person and get your facts straight first.

Nuf said, done with this thread!

Apple a Day
November 3, 2007, 09:54 PM
Bad form and more bad form. Admin's notified.

brighamr
November 3, 2007, 09:55 PM
Bainx - looking at all the other things Olegs ever posted... I'm more apt to believe that you're anti.

pax
November 3, 2007, 10:00 PM
Okay, everyone, please take a deep breath and slow down a bit.

Bainx, I'm pretty sure Oleg is offline at the moment, equally sure he'll be along in awhile to answer your question.

Understandable that people whose addresses are in that database might be a tad unhappy* about it, but still no need to take it out on each other. Especially not on THR.

pax

* "tad unhappy" = royally ticked off

tkkr
November 3, 2007, 10:04 PM
This is obviously just a joke that was taken the wrong way.

SouthpawShootr
November 3, 2007, 10:05 PM
We need that "eating popcorn" icon for times like this. Frankly, I surprised, given the tone of the OP in post #5, that this thread is still open.

4v50 Gary
November 3, 2007, 10:28 PM
It's time to call "Quiet Time." Let's take a nap.

Oleg Volk
November 4, 2007, 12:44 AM
1. Until today, I had no idea what or who WBIR is.
2. The only thing I've seen about the "article" was one of our members critiquing it.

hso
November 4, 2007, 01:17 AM
For anyone interested, Bainx's information is pretty much incorrect.

The maps on WBIR's website do NOT provide the addresses of any HCP holders. What you CAN do is key in an address and select your county and it will pull up the overall stats for the census tract your address is in. Not the address of an HCP holder (unless you think that putting your own address into the the finder somehow is triggering your address from the data???:rolleyes:)

Some folks are ranting that there's another data set that can be downloaded from the WBIR website and that opens in Google Earth that provides the addresses of HCP holders. Again, BS. I pulled the file down and opened it in GE and it provides nothing more than the same anonymous census/income data for a census tract you can see below -

Knox
Permits: 403
Population: 16722
Urban pop:15837
Rural pop: 885
White pop: 15626
Black pop: 316
Pop in family households: 15470
Median income: $75468

The "author" of WBIR's analysis states repeatedly that they will not be revealing the identities of the HCP holders nor their addresses. People don't seem to be paying attention to the fact that WBIR doesn't present that information and that they keep saying they won't reveal it, but that doesn't stop the tin foil hatters from embarrassing all of us with their ranting about something that hasn't been done.

There's nothing in the maps to rant about, but it doesn't stop plenty of folks who have swallowed the tinfoil bs from joining the lynch mob.

As to Oleg's involvement in the analysis by WBIR? Someone mysteriously references THR and Oleg in the comments on the article at WBIR while someone accuses Oleg of having encouraged the folks at WBIR here on THR. Interesting coincidence? Self fulfilling prophecy? Self supporting slander? :scrutiny:

hso
November 4, 2007, 02:49 PM
APOLOGY OFFERED TO THE AUTHOR AND WBIR.

Upon reviewing my postings, I have found some of them to be out-of-ling and uncalled for. As I stated, I mean absolutely no malice for anyone. Its just that it seems that 98% of everything the media puts out on gun owner is negative and demeaning to us as individuals. After reviewing the article, I find it is not meant to damage me as an individual.
Please accept my sincere apology for acting like a jerk.

This is the alarmist who kept ranting (incorrectly:rolleyes:) at the WBIR line that the WBIR folks made identity information available for TN HCP holders then posted the addresses for WBIR employees on the WBIR line. Now he's recanted.

No apology for slandering Oleg there (or here) yet. :cuss:

XavierBreath
November 4, 2007, 08:18 PM
From Jake Jost:

Wow. The response to this story and associated commentary, frankly, has been stunning.

A few points I'd like to emphasize:

1. NO NAMES, NO ADDRESSES PUBLISHED. Sorry for caps, but somehow folks are still missing it.

2. This study does not assess the handgun carry permit program's effectiveness. It does not aim to. Our goal was descriptive statistics of who is making use of the program. Many are taking my statement about a lack of data for Tennessee to be an assertion the program does not work. The point was, specifically, that we were unable to gather the data to assess its effectiveness. Mr. Lott's work may well be tremendously persuasive with compelling evidence--the only thing I wrote was that the studies we've read didn't settle the issue. I'll give Lott's work a read.

3. The question of whether there's a debate over the program does not begin and end at pro- or anti-Second Amendment. Given the pretty clear economic split our study suggests, it may be worth asking whether Tennessee's permit fees and the cost of training are an impediment to folks carrying in lower-income areas--and further, would that create an inequality in rights? Frankly, if I knew where we could find the data to answer that question, we'd do a follow-up posthaste.

4. The assumption by many parties has been a sort of "worst case scenario" the second they saw we were studying this program. I'm aware of the longtime frustration of gun owners and enthusiasts with their portrayal in the press. However, that's really no excuse for deciding what the story says and does not say before you've actually read it, and subsequently flying off the handle. If you'd like to change anything about the way the press represents these issues, you're much better off viewing journalists as misguided allies than as the enemy.

5. You'll see plenty more stories combining geography and available data to reveal unseen trends in the near future. For better or for worse, I predict many will be a lot more boring for you, as we study issues a bit farther from your heart. While I can't guarantee they'll catch your interest like this story has, you have my firmest assurances we'll do our level best to treat any potentially sensitive information with the same dignity and respect we'd treat the people represented by the data.

6. Once again, NO NAMES, NO ADDRESSES HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. IN ANY FORM.(Just in case anyone skimmed and didn't catch it the first time.)

Regards,
--Jake, wbir.com

If you enjoyed reading about "Open Letter to Volk" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!