I have noticed something about gunstores.


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firestar
July 16, 2003, 03:12 AM
There are quite a few gunshops around me and I have visited them all at one time or another. I have noticed something that I need to get off my chest.

Most don't want to ever buy a gun from a person off the street and many won't even take guns in trade. There are a few that will wheel and deal with you and they tend to be the most successful shops. There is one shop in particular that will buy or trade almost anything. They sell a lot of guns so they make good money. They understand that making a few bucks off every guy that comes in the store is better than making a killing off one guy once a month.

Why is it that some dealers won't even make you an offer on a gun while others will? Some won't even ask what you have for sale or what you are looking to get out of your gun, they just seem totaly uninterested in your business. :confused:

I am not mearly ragging on gunshops, I just don't understand why so many dealers cut their own throat by not buying used guns and trading? From what I have seen, an average dealer will make between 10-40% profit on new guns but they can easiliy make several hundred percent by buying and selling used guns.

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Cosmoline
July 16, 2003, 03:40 AM
All the places I frequent in Anchorage are always willing to buy and sell used guns. A few of the stores are 90% used, actually. I consign guns, too, when I don't have the time to sell them myself. THe only places I know of that are new gun only are a few sporting good stores where it's a side business.

280PLUS
July 16, 2003, 08:37 AM
i went into a local gunstore and asked the guy if he had any remmy 700 bull barrels

he says he's getting one in he'll let me have for $650

2 weeks later i go back and theres the rifle on the rack

price?

$850

:fire:

Billy Sparks
July 16, 2003, 09:10 AM
I know some gunstores will not purchase used guns or guns off the street because they have been burned in the past. Case in point a local gun store bought a used H&K 91 from a guy and then sold it to a customer. The new customer said the gun jammed and would feed right. The old customer said it worked fine. Long story short the gunstore ended up paying for a expensive repair bill to make things right.

JohnBT
July 16, 2003, 11:32 AM
I've been told they don't have a use for most used guns because they don't sell too well and tie up a lot of money.

The last time I was at the largest gun store hereabouts, a man came in with a Sharps. Everybody looked at it - it was really nice - but they weren't interested in buying it for resale. The manager told him not to take less than $10,000 for it, but that he could likely get more for it if he took his time selling it.

Think about it...car dealers take trades, but don't sell the majority of them on their lots. They take them to the wholesale auctions and dump them. What would a gun shop do with all the dime-a-dozen guns(common guns like S&W revolvers, Glocks, Rugers, etc.) they'd end up with if they took in everything that came their way?

And...they say...the used gun sales cut into the new gun sales. I suspect they trying to keep their volume discounts in place, etc.

John

Art Eatman
July 16, 2003, 11:42 AM
I'd guess it varies with the part of the country, and the type of store. For instance, I know of an Ace Hardware with a good selection, but they don't do trades. Some of it might be the capabilities of the staff, as well.

Dealing with used guns is a lot like working a gunshow table. You have to know the gun's desirability, for a future sale--and this determines both the hoped-for sale price and the price you can pay or allow on trade.

:), Art

Topgun
July 16, 2003, 12:31 PM
You get every Mossberg bolt action shotgun made since 1951, every RG .22, every POS gun that you can imagine.

AND.....you get to try to figure out a ....tactful.......and .......polite.....way to say you don't take ALL used guns.

It just ain't worth it. If you have a FFL, and own your own store, you can assess EACH separate gun and decide which to buy.

But the ....... TRUE LICE ........of the gun schmucks are the ones who WON'T buy, but have nothing against telling the seller how much he SHOULD get.

If you ain't gonna buy it, let the BUYER appraise it and keep your mouth SHUT!

geekWithA.45
July 16, 2003, 12:36 PM
The dealers won't take the risk of the goods, but they will provide a mechanism for sale.

manwithoutahome
July 16, 2003, 04:42 PM
John,

Think about it...car dealers take trades, but don't sell the majority of them on their lots. They take them to the wholesale auctions and dump them. What would a gun shop do with all the dime-a-dozen guns(common guns like S&W revolvers, Glocks, Rugers, etc.) they'd end up with if they took in everything that came their way?

That one is easy, internet sales/auctions. Most of the folks on the internet (that buy guns from) are doing so because they can't find or get the used guns they want locally. So, put them on the internet. Many people buy guns for parts, for "projects", etc.. Until the government outlaws it (and they will) then that's what you do with them.

M

Dr.Rob
July 16, 2003, 07:34 PM
There is a very popular store here with a consignment case, though it seems to me all the prices are what you should be paying for new else where.

$600 for a Centennial with a grip safety?

I don't get it.

Standing Wolf
July 16, 2003, 09:11 PM
Sad to say, the majority of gun shops I've been into in the past five years are clearly very poorly run businesses. If they ever had to face much actual competition, they'd fold virtually overnight.

Snake Eyes
July 16, 2003, 09:16 PM
I have a little experience buying and selling all sorts of stuff and I've found a few things to be true:

--Most people overpay when they buy new
--Most people want full retail when they sell
--Most people want to pay wholesale when they buy used
--Most people don't want what you don't want anymore either

So, you've got a poor gunstore owner that's looking at your POS Xanadu 85b12 that you've shot to pieces (3 times) and you want $250 in trade for it. New ones sell for $285. Now you think it's a great gun and he should give you a new Glock straight across for it. He thinks if he gives you $75 he might maybe sell it in the next two years to some idiot willing to pay $150.

When he tells you he can only give you $75, are you gonna take it? No, you're going to leave, cursing his mother, run home and post here about how Bob's Used Guns is a horrible place to go.

Ergo, when I go to Bob's, he doesn't have any used guns.

firestar
July 17, 2003, 12:21 AM
So, you've got a poor gunstore owner that's looking at your POS Xanadu 85b12 that you've shot to pieces (3 times) and you want $250 in trade for it. New ones sell for $285. Now you think it's a great gun and he should give you a new Glock straight across for it. He thinks if he gives you $75 he might maybe sell it in the next two years to some idiot willing to pay $150.
When he tells you he can only give you $75, are you gonna take it? No, you're going to leave, cursing his mother, run home and post here about how Bob's Used Guns is a horrible place to go.


That is not even close to what I was talking about. I was not talking about dealers offering too little for a trade, I was talking about how some will not even consider buying your used gun at any price. I have brought several high quality guns into gunshops and the dealer didn't even inquire as to what I was asking. I take it for granted that they are going to offer less than I want but it is only business and if they don't want to even consider doing business then that is their loss.

I am not really complaining, I just don't get it. It is clear that the stores that will buy and trade guns seem to be doing MUCH more business and doing MUCH better financially. Do they not buy and trade guns because they are not doing well or are they not doing well because they are cutting their throats by not buying and trading guns?

I know several people that seem to be on their way to buying and selling every gun ever made just so they can see what they like. These guns will buy a new pistol, decide it is not to their likeing and trade it in for something else. Each time they do this, the dealer will make at LEAST $100 off them. I know one guy that does this every couple of weeks! The dealers he ends up doing most of his business with are the ones that will take slightly used guns as partial trade. He just wants to get rid of his slightly used Beretta for a new SIG or trade in is SIG for a Glock. He loses a lot of money this way but he doesn't mind because he is searching for the perfect gun and he has the spare cash. He gives the stores that he does business with so much more money that way.

blades67
July 17, 2003, 12:39 AM
It really depends on your local area. I went into a small gun store (so small that it was the aisle:eek: ) in Apache Junction that couldn't sell new Glock 19s @ $479. His average customer wouldn't buy anything over $250. He had all kinds of used (and abused) guns, lots of Chi-Com crap and a handful of new Glocks with dust on them. Some shops in Mesa, no more than 20 miles west, can't keep Glock 19s @ $520 in stock. It all depends on the shop's customer base.

hansolo
July 17, 2003, 02:26 AM
I try and "support" the Mom & Pop Gunstore as much as anyone. Unfortunately, the following anecdote pretty much typifies why so many are "true lice": I drive about 30 miles to an outdoor range occasionally. I figure, I'll introduce myself to the proprietors of the small town's gunshop and, fingers crossed, start a long-term gun-buying relationship.

After a little chit-chat to let them know I'm not a total squid, I ask for a ball park price on a decent CA legal SKS(I know thy can be had for about $150.00 through an FFL, plus TX and CA $20.00 DROS). Salesman asks owner, "How much are those SKS's...about $450-500.00?" Owner responds, "Yeah, that's about right." I inform the "fine gentlemen" that I can get one for about $200.00 OTD and that they should read Shotgun News to see what information us "idiots" are privy to...another case of trying to gouge a customer and hope he won't know any better. And they whine about the internet and big sporting goods chains driving them out of business...the REAL reason is good old American Greed. :fire: Now, bring on the stereotypical response where "I" am made to look like an ignoramous who doesn't know the intricacies of the Gun Trade.....Please!; for every decent person trying to earn the respect and business of a community, there are two or three who want the quick kill and leave your carcass to the buzzards.

firestar
July 17, 2003, 03:14 AM
for every decent person trying to earn the respect and business of a community, there are two or three who want the quick kill and leave your carcass to the buzzards.

That is sad but true. In fact, I think the ratio may be even worse than that! I know 2 decent and honest gun dealers that I can trust but that is out of about 10! That is only one of of five! The ones I can't trust vary from just a little crooked to outright illegal! Some of these guys don't think that the law applies to them and all is fair in love, war and the gun business.:D

When people rag on gun dealers, they are not talking about the dew that are honest and decent, they are talking about the bad apples that spoil the barrel. Not all cops are bad but they get a bad rap, same goes for lawyers and any other group of people that have a bad rep. There are good gun dealers but in my experience the majority of them are at least a little crooked.

The best defense you have is know your stuff! They can't screw you if you know what you are doing. I am past the point of going in like a lamb to a slaughter but I have been screwed recently and I will be screwed again I am sure. I just feel sorry for all the new shooters that are going to get taken advantage of and maybe turned off shooting by a bad experience with a dirty gun dealer. I know people that almost abandoned shooting and guns because of a few bad experience early on. It is sad and the only way I know how to fight them is to never give them my business. Somehow they seem to stay in business for a lot longer than they should.

Ala Dan
July 17, 2003, 07:12 AM
Greeting's All-

The gunshop here locally that I've been doing business
with for well over thirty year's (watch out! telling my age)
has a rather large inventory of high quality gun's; and
doesn't mind trading, provided that the firearms received
are also of high quality and desirable weapons that other
consumers might want!:D Quite naturally, one might as
well leave his/her Lorcins, Jennings, Brycos, Ravens, and
RG's at home.:uhoh:

I'm pleased to say, I have on occassions purchased a few
used Smith's from this dealer. The transactions were first
class, and in each case the firearm received was LNIB.
I would not hesitate doing business with this dealer
again; if and when I'm searching for a used firearm!:)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

cracked butt
July 17, 2003, 11:48 AM
There is a local hardware store in my area that also deals in guns. He has a big backroom filled with used longguns. Its fun to poke around in the room once in awhile to find unique things. The think I noticed though is that all of the items are overpriced, half of them are junk: shot out, neglected, or 'improved' by a basement gunsmith. Some of the items have been in the room for years. The owner of the store sells all used firearms on consignment- a good thing or he would lose his shirt.

2nd Amendment
July 17, 2003, 01:50 PM
Think about it...car dealers take trades, but don't sell the majority of them on their lots. They take them to the wholesale auctions and dump them.

Actually the money is in used cars unless you are a HIGH volume new car dealer. They are the only ones who dump their used inventory. The only thing I take to auction is either junk that's unfit to sell(which winds up on buy here/pay here lots like JDByrider) or something I got for nothing, literally, and can turn a fast buck on. One would think it would be the same for firearms IF the dealer knows how to trade and isn't scared spitless of offending the guy who wants to trade.

Cosmoline
July 17, 2003, 02:39 PM
I get the sense that things must be very different in the lower 48. Used guns are a hot item in town, with every major gun dealer selling a large portion of them. I've never heard any of them express liability concerns. Perhaps it has to do with better informed customers. It almost sounds like lower 48 dealers are expecting a used firearm to simply blow up at the first chance.

chadintex
July 17, 2003, 02:41 PM
Went to a pawn shop yesterday to put a Ruger M77 on layaway, very good price. Same dealer had a Russian M44 carbine for $250:what: The rest of his guns were similarly priced. I'm very happy about the Ruger though.

Diesle
July 17, 2003, 03:59 PM
To the origional question.... Who cares if they do or dont. Gun shops ALWAYS offer well below the averages. I wouldnt even give them a chance at my stuff. Gunbroker and Auctionarms are the ticket.


Diesle

Sunray
July 17, 2003, 04:30 PM
"...Most don't want to ever buy a gun from a person off the street and many won't even take guns in trade..." Would you risk taking in trade or buying a potentially stolen firearm, then having it confiscated with no compensation to you? And most accountants don't get trading. You take two guns and cash in on a deal for one other gun, then sell one of the two you took in trade for a high price plus taking in another gun in trade and sell the other one for a low price, but all cash. The question is what was the original gun worth? How do you balance the books?
Those books must be balanced and everything accounted for or the taxman will be standing there with his hand out. The IRS is nothing. It's the sales tax guys. They look at your books and say you sold this much our cut is this much, give. One hand out for payment, the other holding a chain and padlock.
As to the Sharps, what gun store or any other small business has that kind of money laying around? That manager knows his customers and he'd never sell a rifle worth 10 grand so why bother having it cluttering up the shelf?
"...10-40% profit..." Absolute nonsense. There may be a mark up of 10% over cost, but that's not profit. At just 10% your profit is nothing or next to it after expenses. Even at 40% mark up there's little profit. There's very little profit in the firearms themselves.

Dorrin79
July 17, 2003, 04:40 PM
most of the gun shops in South Texas, at least, run a brisk trade in used guns.

Their prices are sometimes a little too high (in my humble opinion) but they certainly carry them.

I've never tried to trade or sell one of mine to any of them. I would imagine they prefer to buy higher quality guns that they can resell for close to the NIB price, but that's just smart business.

BlkHawk73
July 17, 2003, 08:43 PM
Some shops don't want to trade if the model ofered is a model that won't likely be re-sold in a decent amount of time. Others, yeah, they'll take in anything any time. It seems that the later type are the ones with higher prices (offsets the non-selling pieces that $ is tied up in and not selling). I do know of some shops that flatly refuse to take in/sell the Raven/Jennings type pieces. In this area, a person will have one , maybe two shops they deal with and that's it. The owners know thier clients and what they like. They're not likely to stock what thier regular clientel (sp?) doesn't want. Problems arise when the customer starts to take the dealers words as 100%. This is when the prices start to inflate. There are shops like that here also. Anything in his shop is "rare", "classic" or "special".

Freightman
July 17, 2003, 09:14 PM
Here is another reason, The city requires you to hold a gun that you bought off the street (walkin) for 20 days while they run the numbers, I cant afford to tie up the money and stand a chance of loseing the money altogether in the case of a stolen gun.

Ed Brunner
July 17, 2003, 10:18 PM
Regardless of how it is explained, a dealer must make a profit. Otherwise he is guilty of philantrophy and the ATF or IRS will censure him.
If he gives you a "fair" price on your trade-in, will he be able to sell it for a profit?
No comparison to the car business. Many people have no idea of the actual price they paid for a car. All they know is that it was something like $487.63 per month for life, tax title and out the door.

Suppose you needed a federal license to sell cars.

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