A fool and his money...

[armed85]

Well I suppose calling myself a fool is a bit harsh, but I've come to the realization that I've wasted a lot of money on guns. This thread is partly to vent and party a confession. Am I the only person that's having a hell of a time figuring out what he wants?!

I've tried revolvers and 1911s and have decided I do not like either.

Oddly enough, with the exception of my Ruger 10/22, I like my rifles. The 10/22 while being a cheaply built rifle has so much utility that I simply cannot part with it. The handguns that I've bought and later gotten rid of had little utility.

Here's my list of shame:

Glock 21 Semiauto
Gunsmith Customized Smith & Wesson 66 6" Revolver
Smith & Wesson 500 8" Revolver
Ruger GP100 4" Revolver
Gunsmith Customized Ruger GP100 6" Revolver
Gunsmith Customized Smith & Wesson 686 4" Revolver
Kimber Custom II Semiauto
Kimber Pro Carry II Semiauto
Smith & Wesson M&P Compact Semiauto
Colt XSE Combat Commander Semiauto
Colt New Roll Mark 1991 Semiauto

The Glock 21 was my first "real gun." It was also too big and unsuited for any purpose other than home defense. I would rather use a rifle than a handgun for home defense. Sold.

The Smith & Wesson 66 was bought used on GunBroker.com. The gun looked like hell and most definitely was not "in like new condition." I paid $350, so I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to send it to Smith & Wesson to have the trigger pull smoothed out and the frame refinished. $250 later Smith & Wesson returned a revolver that still looked like hell. I didn't want to deal with it anymore. Sold.

I bought the Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum for $600 and sold it for $600. It was a deal I couldn't turn down because I knew I could get what I paid for it. It was a fun gun, but I could not afford the cost of ammo and simply had no use for it. Sold.

The 4" GP100 had a poor trigger pull. The GP100 is too big for conceal carry and the poor trigger pull took the fun out of target shooting. Sold.

The gunsmith customized 6" GP100 had a good, but long trigger pull and seemed like a good choice for handgun hunting and target shooting. After using the GP100 for hunting, I decided I would rather use a rifle. Because of the size and weight, I didn't like using it as a target gun. Sold.

The gunsmith customized 4" 686 had a good, but long trigger pull. Like the Glock 21 and GP100, the 686 is too big for conceal carry. As a target gun, I didn't like the long double action trigger pull. I didn't like cocking the hammer before each shot for a short, light pull. Sold.

The Kimber Custom II is a heavy gun. It seemed like a good choice for target shooting. I got bit by the Colt bug and sold both of my Kimbers to fund Colt purchases. Sold.

The Kimber Pro Carry II was bought as a conceal carry gun. The aluminum frame made the gun recoil more and was uncomfortable to shoot. I had also got bit by the Colt bug and sold both of my Kimbers to fund Colt purchases. Sold.

The Colt XSE Combat Commander is a heavy gun which makes it comfortable to shoot. Now that problem was out of the way I found my experiment with a conceal carry 1911 had failed because the Commander is too heavy to conceal carry. It's a very pretty gun and very well built. I had no use for it. Sold.

The Colt NRM 1991, like the Kimber Custom II, is a heavy gun that's seemed like a good choice for target shooting. After shooting many rounds through it I decided I don't really like shooting it. It's a very pretty gun and very well built. I enjoyed owning Colts more than shooting them, but I have no use for a target gun that I can't shoot well. Sold.

The Smith & Wesson M&P Compact is smaller and less heavy than the Commander. The .40 S&W round from this gun had the same recoil as the Kimber Pro Carry and is just as uncomfortable to fire as the Pro Carry was. I just can't win. Sold.

So there you have it.

Maybe I'm impulsive.

I have come to the realization that for target shooting, I don't like handguns. I still want another handgun as I want a gun that's easier to shoot than my Smith & Wesson 642.

My 642 is great for a last resort weapon that I can always carry. But there are times that I can fit a larger gun in a holster. So my search continues...

Needless to say, I don't want to buy another gun and find that I don't want it anymore.

If only I could find a range where I can rent...

Am I the only person that's having a hell of a time figuring out what he wants?!

[22-rimfire]

Stick with rifles! I really never figure out what I want other than I want it and I buy it. I almost never sell anything. Last gun sold was a Python. The money was used to feed my 22 habit.

Buy a high quality 22 revolver for target shooting and plinking. Buy a Colt Trooper Mark III in 357 for range shooting and perhaps hunting. But they do have a long trigger pull in double action, but they're smooth. My favorites hunting revolvers are my 41 magnums. I see you never really had one of them. You skipped up to the 500...

Look at the Smith 625M for target shooting. It is a good one.

[GunNut]

You really need to try a 9mm handgun of some type. The reduced recoil compared to the .357mag and .45ACP will make quite a bit of difference.

I'd recommend trying one of the following:

HK P7M8/P7 PSP
Browning Hi-Power
CZ 75B
Sig P226
Glock 17 or 19

One of those should work out for you.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Unless you live somewhere that requires you to have a handgun, whether or not you carry one, or have one in the safe is, entirely up to you. From the list it looks to me like you spend a lot of money trying to make a gun "perfect" as opposed to having one that is fun to shoot and versatile to boot. Why not try to find a few gun nuts who have cases of them and respectfully inquire if they will show you how theirs work. Few guys with large numbers of handguns can resisting informing a newbie.

I have a few revolvers and semis simply to practice with or carry. Nothing glamorous about them, but they shoot!

[ReadyontheRight]

A rifle you know is the perfect personal firearm.

You may notice that an extremely small number of Armys issue a handgun or shotgun to a soldier without issuing a corresponding rifle.

At least our tax dollars are spent on something right once in a while.

If you need to carry, you have certainly burned through a lot of good pistols you do not like. Your dislike of the G21, 1911 and GP100 are beyond me, but that's why we have a free market.

What about a Browning High Power, CZ-75B, Walther P99, Taurus PT-145, Beretta 92, Ruger Redhawk .44 mag, Ruger SP101, Kel-Tec P11, H&K, All the various Sigs...?

[Walkalong]

Well I suppose calling myself a fool is a bit harsh, but I've come to the realization that I've wasted a lot of money on guns. This thread is partly to vent and party a confession. Am I the only person that's having a hell of a time figuring out what he wants?!
You are not alone my friend.

The only way to truly know if you like something is to shoot it. Around here there is nowhere to rent guns so I have to buy it if I think I will like it. I have "rented" many guns by buying them, then selling or trading if I did not like them. Some I liked, but they just did not "flic my bic" so if I needed funds or trade fodder, out they went. :)

[Mad Magyar]

All of us go through this somewhat, probably hanging on to some guns longer than we should...No problem with your rifle choice, perhaps you might consider a smaller handgun for pocket carry, your car, and to keep handy around the house....:)

[Jim Watson]

Your only application for a handgun is for holster carry, something more shootable than your 642 pocket gun, right?
If so, I see two approaches:
1. Go with Gun Nut and get a medium or compact 9mm. Recoil will be moderate and accuracy at least passable with a large magazine capacity. The 9mm version of your Kimber Pro Carry would be a very soft shooter.
2. Get a good example of a K-frame S&W, better than your dud M66 and learn to love the double action. That will give you small and medium guns that operate the same way, which might pay off if you get attacked.

[CWL]

Ragsdale85,
I think that you are among the few who have actually paid for the right to be opinionated about handguns.

Most people have owned very few pistols and yet try to push their brand of Kool-Aid down other people's throats.

[armed85]

I've been considering a Glock 19 because of the reputation, but I've been looking at the Springfield Armory XD 9mm and Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm. The CZ 75 P-01 looks interesting as well.

It's nice to have choices :-)

[Silvanus]

Glock 9mms are a very good choice, it size was the only thing you didn't like about the 21.
CZs and M&Ps are awesome too.

Try one of those and you'll find something that suits you.

[bruss01]

Sounds like you might want to try one of the following:

Springfield XD9 (there's a compact, if that's your preference)

CZ 75b 9mm (again, compact if you prefer) Send to Jim Miossi at Miossi Gun Works to have it slicked up nice. There is about a 1 year waiting list but Jim is the best.

A nice .38 special revolver that will handle +P - The Ruger SP101 is ok (you might want to swap grips) or a S&W. But by all means get a pretty one. No one wants to be stuck with an ugly gun.

I think you will find that there is no one best gun that magically excells at every possible function you want a handgun for. You will be happier buying separate handguns for individual purposes. One for targets, one for CCW, one for HD, etc. And don't be afraid to keep a gun a while, have it tuned, or even put it away for a few months because your tastes and your needs do evolve over time - you might come back to it later with a renewed appreciation.

I have a bunch like that, have never sold any, and I'm very happy with my little harem. :D

[armed85]

I'm leaning towards the XD as of now. I'm going to hold one tomorrow and my local funstore.

Is there a pictures of a size comparison between the XD Service and the Glock 19? I've been trying to find some pics for size comparison.

[autospike]

Where are you? IMHO, it sounds to me like you would benefit from finding someone (or a rental range) that would let you shoot a hundred or so rounds through an XD & a G19 before you make another purchase.

I gotta ask something: You mentioned that the .40s and .45s were uncomfortable to shoot, but you didn't say that about the .500. Was it really that big of a problem on the autos?

[Sun195]

Here's my list of semi-shame - most of these were traded at a loss...

1) S&W 642: barrel wasn't put on straight; didn't want to fool around with it; didn't really suit my purposes anyway; traded

2) Ruger Vaquero 5.5" Stainless .357: thought I wanted to get into CAS, but didn't; really didn't like balance of this gun; traded

3) Russian SKS: bought a Mak-90, so thought I didn't need this - dumb mistake; sold (at some profit); later replaced (for a lot more money) with another Russian SKS

4) Benelli Sport II: always wanted a Benelli - didn't actually like the way it shot once I got it; traded

5) Mossberg 500: everyone should have a truck gun... if they use it...didn't use this one; traded

There's other guns I've bought that I should just get rid of because I don't use them, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[modifiedbrowning]

If you're now looking at polymer 9mms make sure to look into the Walther P99. Best of the breed IMO.
Another nice lower cost alloy 9mm is the Bersa Thunder 9 in fullsize or compact. Should be around $350 or so.
www.bersafirearmsusa.com

[Jim Keenan]

Hi, Ragsdale85,

I think you are approaching the thing the wrong way. It is obvious that you are a pragmatic person and want a gun or guns you can use. So how do you plan to use a gun? Hunting? Range? Home defense? Carry concealed? Personal defense while hiking?

A "gun nut" or a collector may buy a gun simply because he likes its looks, or it fills a niche in his collection, but you want to buy only what you need. So first you have to figure out what your need is. Then you buy a gun suited to that need. You may have more than one need. You may hunt, but also need another gun for home defense. Fine, but when you go shopping, think of the gun you need for one purpose and select only from those guns that fit that purpose. You won't always be satisfied, but you won't spend a lot of money trading guns, either.

Jim

[doc2rn]

1) S&W 351-traded becuase it wouldn't shoot straight at 5 yds
2) GP100- bought for range/HD sold
3) S&W 9mm- sold inaccurate shot low consistently
4) SP101- bought for CCW sold too heavy
5) S&W 642- too light to shoot stout loads
6) M66- bought for work traded
7) G19- traded on G32
8) Beretta 96- hurt wrist after prolonged shooting sold
9) Berretta Bobcat- traded
10) KelTec 32-traded
11) Taurus 92AFS-brand new waiting on parts so I can trade it, Grip screw fell out.
I have kept the G32, Ruger MKI, S&W Model 10, and Colt MIM .45 as I enjoy shooting these along with my favorite rifle the 77/22.

[jeepmor]

Maybe I'm impulsive.


It's a hobby, that's okay. Maybe you just haven't found what your looking for yet. Or, maybe you just get one, get bored with it and move onto another. Guns are much cheaper than women in this regard, and they don't talk back.

Hobbies are supposed to grow, alter and change. Some interests grow stronger, some fade, it's just life. If your enjoying yourself in the process, so what. If you're making yourself bankrupt in the process, well, that's a different issue.

[wideym]

Finding one pistol for every occasion is as rare as finding out your Bill Gates long lost brother. Instead use this opportunity to buy a pistol or two for each occasion. A couple for plinking, a couple for concealed carry, a couple for hunting, five or six for zombies, five or six for mutant bikers from outer space(S&W 500 would have been perfect), etc.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Well I suppose calling myself a fool is a bit harsh, but I've come to the realization that I've wasted a lot of money on guns.

Welcome to the club. ;)

If I sat down to think about how much money I've spent on guns that I didn't like, or sold/traded at a loss to either get something I liked better or just because I was in a pinch and needed money right then, or had stolen ... :fire: Denial feels so much better. :D

[jpwilly]

My buddies XD 9mm seems to both of us to recoil more than my PT1911. My PT145 is comfortable to shoot too even though it has a short bbl and polymer frame??? The PT145 is my CCW. The PT1911 is my range queen I shoot the PT145 too but certainly not as much. Sounds to me like you need 2 pistols just like me. One for carry and one for range.

[clang]

Trigger pull on double action revolvers take practice - if you don't want to invest the time, I suggest you stay away from them. (Personally - I've come to appreciate them.)

The same can also be said of some DAO pistols that have exceptionally strong trigger pulls.

Someone already mentioned a Target .22. This is something everyone should own, as they are accurate and very inexpensive to shoot. A Ruger Mark II or Browning Buckmark can be had for a reasonable price, or a S&W 41 or Browning Challenger for more money.

As already said, if .45ACP and .40S&W are too painfull, then a 9mm is your best choice. There're too many good guns out there to list.

[Seancass]

so does the OP have any handguns he DOES like? you shouldnt force yourself to like something. if you dont like handguns, you'd better just keep shooting rifles.

p.s. 22's are whacha need.

[armed85]

I have a Smith & Wesson 642 that I like.

It might not sound logical, but for some reason I like the 642 more than I do 1911s or large revolvers. It's never jammed, it's never malfunctioned, it's easy to clean, I can shoot it accurately at 7 yards, and I can conceal it in almost any clothing. I can conceal it in sweat pants (I'm not that much of a redneck though haha). It's kinda hard to wear a good gun belt and holster with sweat pants.

I do appreciate the history behind the 1911 and the classic lines of a revolver. I believe that a 1911 or a revolver are just as capable of saving my rear end as a Glock or XD or any "modern" handgun.

I don't like 1911s or revolvers. I can't quite figure out why. The one reason that I have come up with that makes sense is weight. Recoil doesn't bother me so much as having my arms extended while unsupported and holding a heavy gun for long shooting sessions. I feel fatigue after shooting 50 to 70 rounds from a 1911 or revolver. I can shoot 200 rounds sitting or 500 rounds prone from my rifles before I feel fatigue.

Maybe that's the way handguns just are.

I would like to try to find a handgun that has greater range than my snub nose revolver, but not be heavy like my 1911 or revolvers.

I tried the Kimber Pro Carry and Smith & Wesson M&P Compact. These guns are not heavy, but without the weight, recoil is too much of a distraction from shooting accurately.

I am now thinking that the 9mm is the way to go.

The Glock 19 looks like it might be it, but I don't like the grip. The Springfield XD Service feels great, but it looks like it might be too big to conceal. The Smith & Wesson M&P grip is too big. The sub compacts, the Glock 26, XD Compact, and M&P Compact are too small.

I'm torn between the Glock 19 and the XD Service as of now. If I could figure out how to conceal the XD, that would be what I would want.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Find yourself a good belly band holster, preferably one with muliple holster pockets sewn in, and then you can be a redneck and carry even with sweat pants. It is a practical way to carry, particularly with a snubby.

[earplug]

Try and sort out the pistols between Service pistols, Target Pistols, and Concealed Carry (CCW) pistols.
A Service pistol can be A home defence pistol but is seldom A good (CCW)
If you compete with A pistol you need the best GAME GUN for the Game.
I recommend you try some handgun competition. It will keep you from going stale on any one pistol.

[KONY]

I am now thinking that the 9mm is the way to go.

The Glock 19 looks like it might be it, but I don't like the grip. The Springfield XD Service feels great, but it looks like it might be too big to conceal. The Smith & Wesson M&P grip is too big. The sub compacts, the Glock 26, XD Compact, and M&P Compact are too small.

I'm torn between the Glock 19 and the XD Service as of now. If I could figure out how to conceal the XD, that would be what I would want.

If G19 size is what you're after, take a look at CZ's compact alloy pistols (pcr and p-01). :cool:

[coelacanth]

just experience purchased. Sometimes it is worth what you paid for it and sometimes no but at least you have a knowledge base from which to proceed. It seems you like your 642 for the reasons most of us like our revolvers so if I were to recommend a revolver for general use it would be a S&W K frame - probably a model 10 with the tapered 4" barrel. New or used they have a pretty nice trigger right out of the box and are not particularly burdensome to pack around for a day of woodswalking. They are not in the least muzzle heavy and the .38 special round is neither expensive or abusive to shoot. It is also quite adequate for most of the things handguns are used for. A 9mm is ballistically interchangeable with the .38 special but from a semi auto pistol and is also neither expensive nor abusive to shoot. I recently opted for a Springfield Armory XD9 with the 5" barrel but I have owned and shot several 9mm's over the years and they are in many ways similar the the model 10 in that they are easy to pack around and to shoot well. Pick something that fits your hand and is comfortable to practice with and you will be a happy camper. Good luck.

[armed85]

coelacanth, I tend to agree with you, however it's rather frustrating that I want to keep every rifle I've bought yet I can't seem to hold on to any handgun I've bought. The exception is my little 642.

Ironically, the 642 is the least expensive handgun of all the handguns I've bought. Of course, price isn't always an indicator of quality or utility.

Utility is what I'm after. In the case of a handgun, I've ruled out a target gun as I don't seem to have any interest in target shooting with a handgun. What with a Glock 21, 4 1911s, and 4 revolvers of various barrel lengths and calibers, I have owned a wide range of target handguns.

That leaves me with home defense and conceal carry. I've ruled out home defense as I have a rifle for that purpose. I will be buying a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense as well.

The obvious choice for conceal carry are the sub compacts, but I don't think I'll like a sub compact. The short sight radius limits the range I can shoot effectively and doesn't give me much utility over my 642. Like the 642, short barrels have increased recoil which reduces my likelihood of practicing as short barreled guns aren't enjoyable to shoot.

The XD Service with a 4" barrel looks like a winner, but I don't know if I can conceal it. The Glock 19 is about the same size though it is slightly smaller.

I'm not ignoring anyone's suggestions or comments. To reply to people's comments helps me organize my thoughts and clear up confusion. I appreciate the help!

[-terry]

Might want to take a look at the Walther P99c AS. It's in 9mm, reasonably small, 10+1, accurate, nice looking and easy to conceal.

[Joe the Redneck]

Go black powder for your handgun range shooting. You will love it.

Joe

[gandog56]

Around here there is nowhere to rent guns so I have to buy it if I think I will like it.

On the other hand, I live by one that rents almost any gun you could wish to try. I end up wanting to buy them ALL!

[sixgunner455]

If you don't live somewhere that makes the 5 shot snubby look like it's a bit inadequate for your needs, then why look any further for your concealed carry needs? I have a number of handguns, they are my first love in firearms, but the 642 is what I carry daily. The others, just sometimes or never.

I own one shotgun. It is an old side-by-side 20 guage. It satisfies all my shotgunning needs. I don't use it for home defense. I have pistols and rifles for that. I don't compete with it. I do informal trap shooting and hunt small birds with it. I can run a pump gun very well, but I prefer this one, so it is my only shotgun.

I have several rifles, and many more handguns. Those are the things that I like best. Nothing wrong with you having only one need for a pistol, having the one pistol that you need to fill that purpose, and not worrying about it any further.

You might consider getting an all steel J frame, to make your practice sessions a little less wearing in the recoil department. Otherwise, I think you've got the perfect CCW already. I went through what I thought was a lot of guns before I got mine -- lol, you've definitely got me beat there!

[yongxingfreesty]

those other firearms you listed would be considered a real gun to me. not a joke gun like bryco jennings.

[Oldskoolfan]

Sounds like you should try an HK P2000... ;)

[autospike]

The obvious choice for conceal carry are the sub compacts, but I don't think I'll like a sub compact. The short sight radius limits the range I can shoot effectively and doesn't give me much utility over my 642. Like the 642, short barrels have increased recoil which reduces my likelihood of practicing as short barreled guns aren't enjoyable to shoot.

My G26 is *much* softer shooting than my J-Frame. The M&P may be even softer.
I can hit much further out with the Glock than the J.
The sight radius is a bit longer, but the main thing is that the sights are FAR superior to those on my J. And there are many many different sights to try out on a Glock.

There is nothing wrong with a J though. One thing that has improved my shooting with it are a set of Crimson Trace 405 laser grips. The laser is good for low light sighting (when the little iron sights just disappear for me) and the grips have a "recoil absorbing pocket" that really seams to work.

Recoil doesn't bother me so much as having my arms extended while unsupported and holding a heavy gun for long shooting sessions.

How long is a typical range session? Mix things up. Shoot from a compressed position. Switch out to your rifle. Try doing some dry fire each night. Minutes each night dry-firing can really improve your shooting.

[Sylvan-Forge]

Hi Ragsdale85,

I feel your pain.

The Glock 19 is nice.
Here's a few others to ponder:

FN FNP-9M (note the SAO model)
STI VIP (they are considering a re-release)
Sig Sauer P250 (pending)

[lev83]

I have never really thought about this before...now lets see over the course of the last ten years I have purchased the following guns:

Browning:
A-Bolt Medallion .270 SOLD

Colt:
1911 S70 Gold Cup National Match .45 ACP
1911 S80 Gold Cup Trophy .45 ACP
1911 S80 XSE Commander .45 ACP
1911 S70 Combat Commander .45 ACP SOLD
Frontier Scout .22 LR SOLD

Franchi:
AL-48 SOLD

Harrington & Richardson:
Topper 098 12 ga. SOLD

High Standard:
Dura-Matic .22 LR SOLD

Marlin:
Model 36 30-30 SOLD
Model 60 .22 LR
Model 80 .22 LR SOLD

Remington:
Model 700 ADL 30-06 SOLD
870 WingMaster 12 ga. SOLD
870 WingMaster 12 ga.

Savage:
Model 110 .270 SOLD
Model 110 30-06 SOLD

Smith & Wesson:
Model 586 .357 Mag SOLD
Model 686 .357 mag SOLD
Model 22A .22 LR SOLD
Model 41 .22 LR
Model 39 9mm SOLD
1911 SC .45 ACP SOLD
1000 .12 ga SOLD

Sturm Ruger:
MKII Target .22 LR SOLD
MKIII Target KMK .22 LR SOLD
P89 9MM SOLD
NM Single Six Convertible .22 LR/MAG SOLD
NM BlackHawk .357 MAG SOLD
NM Super Blackhawk .44 MAG SOLD
OM Single Six .22 LR STOLEN
GP 100 .357 MAG SOLD
M77 MKII 22 .22 LR
M77 MKII .270
M77 MKII .243
No. 1 A-B .270
No. 1 B .243 SOLD
10/22 .22LR SOLD
10/22 .22LR SOLD

Walther:
P22 .22 LR SOLD

Winchester:
Model 94 30-30 STOLEN
Model 70 .270 SOLD
Model 12 12 ga STOLEN

Wow 43 different guns. 3 Stolen, and 30 Sold. Some of these were just ill advised purchases and I did take a beating on some of these guns but reagrdless of that I had fun and enjoyed every one. The ten that remain are now in my permanent collection.

[armed85]

I've decided to give the Smith & Wesson M&P another shot. This time the full size 9mm Luger.

I looked at a bunch of handguns, but with the $50 rebate plus 2 free magazines (4 total magazines), the M&P was the best deal.

I like the grip and it's less blocky than the XD.

I'm going to try the Comp-tac Infidel Holster with a good gun belt to see how concealable this gun is, if at all.

Another experiment I guess haha.

lev83, I had fun with all of my guns too. Especially the 500 Magnum. That was a fun gun.

[Jim Watson]

Sort'a wish you hadn't said that. The promotional deal was getting close to selling me on a Plastic M&P. I figured the $50 rebate would be a good down payment on a Dan Burwell trigger job; a gritty trigger is the worst flaw I have seen on them.

[Newton]

True firearms lovers never find "the right" handgun, because even when we do, we still keep searching just in case there's something even better out there.

PS - +1 on the 1911, I just don't get it either.

[armed85]

I just shot 100 rounds through my new M&P full size 9mm Luger.

Here's my impression:

I was amazed I could shoot it as well as I did. Especially considering this a gun I have little experience with.

My first shot was dead center. I laughed out loud!

My next two shots were dead center as well making my first three shot group about 2". I opened that group up firing several magazines, but I did manage to punch out a satisfying baseball sized hole in the center of the target.

This gun feels like half the weight of my 1911s and revolvers.

My last three lightweight guns (Smith & Wesson M&P Compact .40 S&W, Kimber Pro Carry .45 ACP, and Glock 21 .45 ACP) had harsh muzzle flip. The M&P full size 9mm Luger has very little muzzle flip.

I was turned off to plastic guns and lightweight guns in general because of harsh muzzle flip. I should have started with 9mm Luger to begin with, but oh well, live and learn.

I bought the gun during a promotion and got four, rather than two, 17 round magazines with it. After the mail in rebate I paid $450 plus sales tax.

Some of you might dismiss my impression of this gun thinking I'm a "recoil wimp" or some such. That's not true. I enjoyed shooting heavily recoiling .357 Magnum and .500 Magnum revolvers. When I take my time and shoot slow I can shoot .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, and .500 Magnum just as accurately as I shot today at the range.

For a defensive handgun, I cannot take my time and shoot slow.

If I invested a lot of money in ammo I'm sure I could shoot a lightweight .40 S&W or .45 ACP as accurately as a "nine," but from what I've seen today at the range, there's no reason to spend the time and money on the "more serious" calibers.

While it seems like no experienced or professional handgunner would admit to preferring a "nine" over a .40 S&W or .45 ACP, I'm comfortable with my choice.

After all this fuss and money spent on expensive all metal 1911s and revolvers from quality makers such as Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and Colt, I ended up with a $450 plastic gun.

Go figure...

[jhansman]

Don't feel bad. I've been through two XDs, a bolt .17HMR, a .30-30 levergun, and am about to sell a revolver I was just sure was going to be my last gun. It's process, not an event....