[trimation]

I am thinking of getting my P220 sent out to be hard chromed. Can anyone give me the positives and negatives(if any) to getting this done?

I am thinking of getting the whole thing chromed. Slide, frame, barrel, whole nine yards. My dealer ships out to a place in Florida. Quoted me $210 for shipping there and back and all the chroming.

[valnar]

No negatives I can think of regarding the finish durability, etc. However, it does not necessarily keep the underlying metal rust free, so treat the gun as it were blued as far as rust prevention.

Also, the P220 has some aluminum parts, so make sure the place doing the chroming knows how to handle that.

Robert

[DDGator]

The place in Florida is probably Accurate Plating and Weapontry (Bob Cogan) in Safety Harbor, FL. They have a good reputation and are probably one of the top refinishers in the country.

Look at their website -- I think it is apwcogan.com -- you can see their retail refinishing price list and determine what kind of mark-up you are paying.

[mete]

Properly applied hard chrome is an extremely durable rust proof finish. Improperly applied it will peel. Make sure that the plater has a good reputation and experience with guns. Before you send it out take a look at the gun - do you want any changes such as chamfering sharp edges ?- this is the time to do it.

[10-Ring]

Done properly, hard chroming has limited downside.

[Nick96]

What's the differance between "hard chroming" and, I guess, "soft chroming"? I've got an old black powder 1860 Colt reproduction I had chromed. It's held up great - real easy to clean (for a black powder gun anyway). I didn't specify hard or soft - they just chromed it for me.

[mete]

Soft chrome , or decorative chrome consists of layers of copper ,nickel and chrome . It is soft and not durable. It is what they plated things like automobile bumpers. Hard chrome is very hard very durable and is the only chrome that should be used on guns. When it comes to nickel there are also two types electrolytic and electroless. Electroless is harder and more durable, it is actually nickel with some phosphorous.

[Southern Raider]

Another Florida chroming location is www.fordsguns.com. Your dealer is charging a pretty stiff markup. Send it off yourself.

[Sean Smith]

Hard chrome's only real downside is that some people must (at least in their minds) have a black finish, which hard chrome ain't. It is a slightly blue-tinged silver gray color usually, but mainly looks like bare steel does, and anything you do to the bare steel (polished, brushed, bead-blasted) will carry through to the appearance of the finished gun.

Hard chrome is NOT the cosmetic chrome you see on car bumpers, it is developed from an industrial coating used on tooling and dies to reduce friction and increase wear resistance. I've actually seen hard chromed dies used for injection-molding PVC, and it is certainly quite heat resistant. It does NOT flake or peel like old nickel plating jobs did... it bonds to the base metal EXTREMELY well. Most of the "wear" people see from constant friction on a hard chrome surface is actually the hard chrome coating being "buffed"... actually wearing through it is quite difficult.

Assuming you don't have a chump do it, it will have the following properties:

Extremely hard and wear resistant. Probably the hardest and most wear resistant mainstream finish you can get. Figure a Rockwell "C" hardness of 65-75 vs. about 30 for your gun's slide. Supposedly there are some super-duper ceramic coatings you could get instead, but they never took off for some reason.

Good corrosion resistance. Applied properly, hard chrome will substantially increase your gun's resistance to corrosion. It won't make your gun 100% rust proof, however. But the finishes that do provide more corrosion resistance when new will wear off sooner than hard chrome... something to consider.

Reduced friction between hard chromed parts. Not as pronounced as NP3 (which has teflon mixed in), and not a substitute for properly lubing your gun, but a nice added benefit.

If your #1 biggest worry is corrosion, NP3 or Electroless Nickel are better choices, and they still have good wear resistance to boot. As an all-around finish, however, hard chrome is tough to beat.

[trimation]

Wow,

You guys have been great. Thank you for all the info. I think I am going to have it done. Although, I am going to try to contact the place myself and see if I can save myself some money.

[lawson4]

Hard chrome can be a little more slick in your hand than the standard blueing. I have a Browning Hi Power that is hard chromed and I will have to put skate board tape on the front strap to keep it moving in my hand. I don't have that problem with a blued HP.

Rick

[Serpico]

210 through a dealer isn't really that bad...I sent mine myself to fords and the cost was 140 for chroming with one mag (10 each additional) plus shipping..on my end it was around 30 and on theirs it was about 20....they do great work...

http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/album/00000364/MVC006S.JPG

[tlhelmer]

That is a BEA utiful gun.:D

[incursion]

Ford's w/ brushed flats
http://bba00.bus.utexas.edu/Eric.Lim/Picture%20136.jpg

[FJC]

Tripp's with brushed flats. Shame they're getting out of the refinishing business! Let's hope they change their minds...

http://www.condron.com/pics/colt/comm/carcom5.JPG

http://www.condron.com/pics/colt/comm/carcom4.JPG

[caz223]

Real chrome has a very slight blue tint, and doesn't resist corrosion very well, but the metal underneath it usually does . (Nickel)
There are nickel alloys that are almost as good as hard chrome, and are easier to apply, like electroless nickel, and alloys of nickel, like cobalt, etc.
They tend to be thicker than chrome, if your gun is already tight, I wouldn't recommend nickel, but chrome instead.
If loose tolerances are something you are trying to fix, like putting a 1 mil coating on your barrel and slide to tighten slide to barrel fit, then you want nickel.
Real nickel has a very light yellow tint, which is annoying to some people, the nickel-cobalt alloy makes it plate thick like nickel, and makes it have the color of chrome.
The surface hardness of hard chrome is much, much harder than any alloy of nickel there is.
As with any finish or coating, surface prep is very important.
Caswell is a good resource for do-it-yourself electroless plate kits, and answers a lot of questions on their web pages.
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/index.html

[Reason]

Since we're posting pictures, here's mine, done by Tripp.

http://omgnoyuo.home.comcast.net/images/P228/01.jpg

And there's more where that came from (http://omgnoyuo.home.comcast.net/p228.htm).

[caz223]

Nice!
Now I want to do that to my 228!

[Mastrogiacomo]

I had Tripp do the slide and barrel of one of my compacts and recently sent off the same from my other compact. I plan to chrome my other guns too as I buy them.

[Sean Smith]

From http://www.apwcogan.com/Refinishing.htm :

Plated finishes of any kind offer the greatest wear resistance and a very high degree of corrosion resistance.

Most plated finishes have hardness ratings greater than the base metal they are applied to. And offer superb corrosion resistance in the 100 salt test level.

Personally, after 26 years of applying and testing these finishes, Hard Chrome offers the best all-around properties of any finish available for firearms that exists today. If there is something out there I don't know about please let me know. (sic) Sooner or later someone will come out with a compound containing corn flakes and ground moon rock dusted, sprayed superheated in an reactor and applied by gnomes who vaporize after your weapon is finished and make claims that sliced bread has been replaced...

Plated Finishes- Points of Light

Hard Chrome, when applied to a steel, or stainless steel surface that has been properly prepared, will not chip or peel.

The hardness rating averages 65 R.C., or about 1000 on the Vickers scale.

Its friction co-efficient is .1 ( point one) when working with all surfaces chromed. Polishing the surface decreases the friction co-efficient even further.

Salt spray ratings average around 100 plus hours.

Matte hard Chrome Finishes are a light grey and completely non-reflective.

Brushed Hard Chrome Finishes are the easiest to clean and have a very low reflectivity.
Note: I personally hunt with Hard Chromed firearms with both Matte and Brushed finishes, or combinations of them and I cannot document one instance where the finish has spooked the game I was hunting.

I have had deer come to within ten feet of my position on the ground with a Matte Chrome firearm in my hands. I wear full camo's and they have not even noticed as long as I am downwind. Talk about a rush.

Most areas of the country I hunt, the fall-winter weather conditions give the landscape a "grey" look. In snow, this Brushed Matte combo finish is like camo. If you have to leave your rifle to bring out your game, you better tie surveyors tape to your Matte Hard Chromed firearm especially if it has a black, or camo stock. That's if if you expect to find it when you go back to get it.

[Serpico]

I mean to show my P7 but the pic is gone...guess when I added the BHP pics it removed my older ones....here is my 442 done by fords
http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/album/00000364/aluminum_442.jpg

[mete]

cas223, you've got things a bit mixed up.PLease read my previous post and the Sean Smith post carefully. Real chrome ? no there is only hard or soft chrome. Cobalt alloy? I couldn't find that on the Caswell site. The trick to plating of any kind is to start with a chemically clean (not soap and water clean) surface other wise you get peeling . In hard chrome properly done, they first reverse the leads and deplate. This removes dirt oxides etc, a true chemically clean surface ,and that's where the matt finish comes from .Then they put the leads back and plate. Hard chrome sometimes is very thick when they want to build up a worn shaft for example. But improperly done ,especially do it yourself, will peel. Isaw a 1911 in a match jamb because hard chrome peeled in the frame and jambed the trigger.

[caz223]

The alloys I were mentioning are alloys of NICKEL and COBALT.
Made to look like chrome.
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/electroless_krome.htm
Nickel is electroless, more even deposit on rounded edges.
Electrolytic coatings of nickel and nickle alloys prolly aren't best for guns.
The nickel/cobalt alloy is also electroless.
Chrome is clear with a slight blue tint, and a base coat of nickel or another metal is what gives it it's real color.
Chrome is also porous, the nickel under it is what protects against corrosion.
Real chrome requires an anode, a power source, a source of chrome, like crystals, and an acid solution.
I am probably confused about this, but if there are people who have done plating and know the what for, I would'nt mind some correction, since I'm considering plating some gun parts very soon.

[Sean Smith]

Chrome is also porous, the nickel under it is what protects against corrosion.

Wrong. Properly applied hard chrome (with no nickel undercoat) WILL increase corrosion resistance substantially. Chrome over nickel is almost never done, partly because hard chrome adheres to steel better than nickel does.

We have studied the corrosion problem as it relates to firearm materials, owner expectations and cost. We think that hard chrome, properly applied, does a pretty job on preventing corrosion. The hard chrome itself does not rust. The surface under it can rust if there is a path through the chrome for the oxidizing fluids. In a coastal environment it looks like three years or so may show some corrosion on a part like the grip safety. Could that be six years? Probably, but now the hard chrome is getting thicker and things may not fit any more and the initial expense goes up.

When the plating is .0003/.0005 thick we believe that performance and value are optimized. If you have special corrosion requirements, we will work out a strategy with you.

Polymer coatings are about the best solution to corrosion anybody uses for anything. However, their biggest problem is if it wears off an area and leaves it unprotected.

Nobody, including us, has a coating process that matches hard chrome for adhesion and lack of holster wear. The better coatings do have superior performance to the old standard of bluing. They are not perfect but they solve a lot of problems.

http://www.trippresearch.com/tech/corrosion/corrosion.htm

[mete]

caz223, ok, found the nickel/cobalt. For firearms it is important that you understand that you really have only two choices ; hard chrome ( the most durable ) and electroless nickel. Soft chrome and electrolyti c nickel are for decorative uses only, as are silver and gold. In any case this is not a do it yourself project !! Even the manufacturers can do it wrong - I've heard of Brownings that peeled their electroless nickel. There are many other details of the actual plating operation that I doubt that you would really be interested in.

[caz223]

*snip*
Note on Hard Chrome
It is a common misconception that chrome plating provides corrosion protection. This is not the case, only slight protection is given. Hard Chrome is porous at the microscopic level, which can let moisture and chemicals through to attack the base material. If the item is to be used in a damp environment, or where water based inks are used on printing machines, a layer of Nickel plating is required, prior to hard chrome plating.
*snip*
From http://www.electroplating.co.uk/chrome.htm
It does help, the fact is that chrome IS porous.

Hard chrome does offer some protection, but also harbors corrosive salts beneath it's open grain structure.
Leeching does occur, and the resultant protection is a consequense of the chrome plating being used up to resist the corrosive attack.
When used in conjunction with a cracked grain nickel coating beneath a coating of hard chrome, corrosion protection is increased.
If hard chrome offered better corrosion protection than nickel, then nickel coatings would not be used in conjunction with it.
That being said, nickel-chrome over stainless is very common in corrosive environments because of the hardness of chrome, and the corrosion resistance of nickel plated stainless.

[clubsoda22]

question, If i was gonna get one of these new springfield XD's, waht would be the best finish to put on it since they don't offer a stainless. Since it will be carried, A teflon coating would be nice. Does springfied offer one from the factory? About how much does it cost? Alternatives? Pricing for alternatives. Basically, looking for the most cost effective corrosion resistant finish i can find.

[Sean Smith]

Hmm... you are accepting info from a UK site that plates random widgets over what companies who actually plate GUNS say. Did Tripp and APW forge the salt spray results for their hard chrome guns?

:confused:

[litework]

Clubsoda,

Springfield does offer the XD in stainless (bi-tone). They will also hard chrome your pistol for 125 plus shipping. Springfield can put a number of more durable coatings on your firearm. Just shoot them an email. I recently sent my XD to Tripp Research for hard chroming. There wasn't anything wrong with my finish, but I wanted to hard chrome one of my guns, and the XD was the most worthy candidate. I sent it last Thursday and don't expect to see it until next week. I've heard a lot of good things about their work.

[coldshot03/04]

Nice Guns. But to "Flashy".

[caz223]

http://www.finishing.com/64/74.html
Unbiased professional answer.
I don't think that hard chrome is a bad coating, far from it.
But nickel/chrome offers corrosion protection superior to chrome, and the hardness and low friction of hard chrome makes for an excellent top coat over it.
However it is difficult to have a consistant layer of chrome due to the chromic acid base combined with the electro- nature of deposition.
Electroless is a far better process to get consistant thickness on the surface.
The problem is that chromic acid+electro plating sometimes slightly weakens nickel plating just enough for it to flake off, when the chrome is applied too thick.
It's better for a nickel coating to be applied 1 mil thick, then chrome, a mil thick, or maybe a little less.
Chrome is usually deposited much thinner than EN for these applications.
Like on the order of .0005 (Half a mil.)
If you have an already tight gun, nickel may be too much.
Remember, nickel is harder than steel, even the normal hardened steel you would encounter in gun applications.
So a nickel coating is still beneficial.
Chrome is just harder.
Also, due to the uneven nature of chrome depostion, chrome isn't recommended for hammer/sears.
Nickel is fine for them, and may improve trigger pull.
Just safety check the trigger before chambering a live round.
Nickel applied too thick to these parts may round the engagement point to the point where it might be unsafe.

[Sean Smith]

Once again, the position from people who actually plate guns.

http://www.trippresearch.com/tech/electroless/electroless.htm

In our opinion, this process is OK for firearms but it is not great. It would be a rare day for somebody to take off good hard chrome and replace it with electroless nickel. On the contrary, we replace electroless nickel with hard chrome regularly. Some shops electroless nickel plate before hard chrome on purpose. It may solve some plating problem for them but in our experience nothing is better than hard chrome only.

http://www.apwcogan.com/Refinishing.htm

The only time we recommend Nickel over a Chrome Finish is to do restoration on older firearms, or when a firearm is so heavily pitted from neglect that full flaw removal would create a dangerous firearm.

Matte Nickel Finishes do not show flaws like Chrome does because of softer coloring. Also, Nickel Plating solutions have chemicals in them that enhances the ability of the plating to fill in and fully cover the flaws that cannot be removed.

Note: Bright Nickel solutions, due to their chemical make, create a more brittle and less ductile deposit on the base metal. This can cause the deposit to actually blow off, or crack where high pressure gas from the cartridge igniting come into direct contact with the plating. This problem mainly occurs with magnum handgun cartridges. AP&W uses a Semi-Bright Nickel solution that can be maintained with low levels of brighteners. This allows for a much less brittle and highly ductile deposit. We have used our tank to base coat magnum high power rifles and have not experienced any separation at the muzzles.

Nickel Plated Finishes, in general, run about a 45 R.C. This is as hard as most of the parts in firearms manufacturing, but way off of the standard Hard Chrome at 65 R.C.

Also, Nickel can tarnish, or stain like silver. Even some cleaning solvents can damage Nickel Finishes. Chrome, on the other hand, will not change its appearance unless attached by certain strong acids, or bases. Also, Nickel is more prone to show wear due to the lower hardness of the deposit, similar to Stainless Steel Firearms. Nickel and Chrome Finishes cost the same at AP&W. So unless there is special reason to choose Nickel, Chrome would be the better choice. Salt spray ratings are about the same…100+ hours.

Note that Accurate Plating & Weaponry offers both Hard Chrome and nickel finishes, so they don't have an incentive to make you pick one over the other... they'll sell you either one. I'd also suggest that plating random widgets and plating firearms are not necessarily interchangeable processes.

[caz223]

They are comparing .0005 EN and .0005 HC.
EN must be applied .001 to have full corrosion protection.
It would be unwise to apply HC to a gun surface .001 thick.
.0005 HC does not offer the same corrosion proctection as .001 nickel.
Period.

[mete]

caz223, electroless nickel ( Ni + phosphorous) is not harder than steel. At most you can get 50Rc. Hardened steel is up to 60Rc and Hard chrome up to 70Rc. Electrolytic plating like hard chrome plates at a rate proportional to current density . That means sharp corners will have thicker plating than flat sufaces which will have thicker plating than holes . If I had a gun plated with chrome I would chamfer all sharp edges ( I do that anyway) to minimize the problem. Critical parts such as trigger/sear surfaces I would always check after plating. Hard chrome is still the best platin g for GUNS. PLease don't confuse the picture by bringing up other applications.

[incursion]

I remember reading somewhere that electroless nickel can be heat treated up to a rockwell hardness of 70RC.

[mete]

incursion, 50Rc as far as I remember , the phosphorous does this .

[Serpico]

In some cases, you have to put nickel under the chrome....my 442 frame is aluminum and very chromers will touch it...fords put a nickel substrate under the chrome and it works fine...

[caz223]

Chrome is indeed, very hard.
Nickel is harder than the stainless used on most guns.
Some parts are treated more than others, like sears, hammers, and the like.
You can harden good steel harder than nickel, but most parts you will have plated will be softer.
There are exceptions, of course.
Cobalt, boron, and other metals alloyed with nickel will be harder than phosphorus.
Treated Phosphorus/nickel does get to the mid 60's in rockwell, IIRC.
High phosphorus content (between 10%-15%) increases the wear resistance, and corrosion resistance of the EN coating.

[mini14jac]

A lot of KelTec owners, myself included, get the slide and barrel hard chromed by KelTec.
(Actually, KelTec has another firm do the hard chroming, I believe.)
$20 plus shipping.
I knew that was a bargain, but I hadn't realized how much of a bargain.
:eek:

Since KelTec started offering it on their guns, many owners have had it done.
Our results show it to be an excellent corrosion inhibitor for guns carried in the pocket.