Permapin for the AR15


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1lostinspace
November 8, 2007, 08:27 PM
I bought the perma pin



and it does not fit what gives. I mean it's not even close?
Is there bolts of varies sizes?:banghead:

http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=323

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Jeff White
November 8, 2007, 11:05 PM
What's wrong with the standard cotter pin type of firing pin retaining pin?

There are not supposed to be different sized holes in the bolt carriers.

Jeff

1lostinspace
November 8, 2007, 11:08 PM
The permapin was the original Stoner design and is far superior, I go though pins like nothing, it's the part most likely to brake.

blackhawk2000
November 8, 2007, 11:18 PM
What??? Granted I don't shoot as much as some, but I have at least 10K on my AR, and haven't broke anything yet.

1lostinspace
November 8, 2007, 11:21 PM
Well I fire about 1000 rounds a month mainly 25 gr Varget 75 grain BTHP it's a bit hot so things get banned around.... Those pins were a way of saving money.
I think Ill have my gun smith sand the bolt a bit.

blackhawk2000
November 8, 2007, 11:37 PM
I've shot 1k in 8 hrs, on several different occasions. No breakage.

jerkface11
November 8, 2007, 11:58 PM
25gr of varget under a 75gr bullet is an overcharge. Maybe that's why you're breaking stuff?

Jeff White
November 9, 2007, 12:05 AM
I don't believe that in 32 years experience with the M16/AR15 I've ever noticed the firing pin retaining pin to be a high breakage part. I think that I've seen almost everything that can break on one, break.

Perhaps you should back off on your overpressure load before you get hurt? If I were you I'd take continual breakage of a part that doesn't normally break as a sign that you're pushing things past a limit.

Jeff

1lostinspace
November 9, 2007, 12:23 AM
I think I might be doing more damage taking it in and out after shooting to clean it. I clean my gun every time I shoot and it doesn't brake it's just rough going in and out. As far as the 25 gr varget in a 5.56mm chamber at 48,000 cup is not that hot of a load.

blackhawk2000
November 9, 2007, 12:29 AM
I'll go one step further and say you are just plain ole FOS.

Here you claim to have never seen combat: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3874525#post3874525

Yet here you claim to have seen combat, and report the ineffectiveness of .223/5.56 at 150 yds: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3874349#post3874349

Yet here you praise the .223/5.56 at 150 yds: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3870133#post3870133

Here in your quickly locked thread you ask for vets comments on .223/5.56 lethality, even though you have shot at, at least 6 people according to another of your posts: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3867780#post3867780


Here you praise 5.56: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3859042#post3859042


I think you are a troll.

1lostinspace
November 9, 2007, 12:35 AM
what are you talking about

we all know that 5.56mm will kill past 150 yards
I have never seen combat.
The quote of killing 5 insurgents but not been able to kill the one at 151 is obviously a joke.
As far as the thread locked about 5.56mm been effective I was trying to get really data to prove it does work.

Define a troll are trying to say I am trying to sell something???

1lostinspace
November 9, 2007, 12:38 AM
I am not getting into a flame war with you if you don't know about this permapin thing and can't help please dont insult me or claim that I said I have seen combat.

Why are you trying to twist things around?

blackhawk2000
November 9, 2007, 12:39 AM
All your posts are all over the place. It don't add up.

1lostinspace
November 9, 2007, 12:44 AM
add up to what?


Dude you need a beer or something

your too:cuss:for no reason
not cool:uhoh:

I have never said I have seen combat and have never said that 5.56 is not effective maybe you should read the whole thread

ocabj
November 9, 2007, 01:51 AM
That is the biggest waste of $9 I've ever seen in awhile.

You could have bought 9 standard firing pin retaining pins for that price. And one should last you the life if your barrel.

If you're breaking FPR pins on a continuous basis, you have a serious issue with your gun.

I'm not even going to blame your ammo, because I know lots of people, including myself, are shooting pretty hot and heavy loads for the 600 yard line and have no problems with FPR pins.

rero360
November 9, 2007, 02:27 AM
a buddy of mine did indeed have his break on his issued M16, before we got M4s, or he lost it, not sure, either way he used a piece of a paperclip in place of the pin for a long time with no ill effects.

wideym
November 9, 2007, 03:12 AM
I've never had any firing pin retainers break on my ARs or when I was an Armorer in an Infantry company. Guys lost them sometimes, now that I think about it the only part that ever needed replacing were cracked hand guards and a barrel the XO bent around a tree(that was a sight).

Permapins are like those anti walk pins vendors sell, overpriced junk nobody will ever need, but sound so cool you have to buy one.

1lostinspace
November 9, 2007, 04:47 AM
well like I said they don't brake but tend to be finicky going in and out.

Coronach
November 9, 2007, 05:41 AM
As far as the 25 gr varget in a 5.56mm chamber at 48,000 cup is not that hot of a load.Uh. Dude. You're breaking parts in your rifle that don't normally break. This is one of the signs of a load that is too hot.

You can do what you want. You can continue to abuse your AR, have your gunsmith alter the bolt to make the non-spec part fit, and then wonder why something else breaks in a few more thousand rounds. Or, you can replace the broken cotter pin with another one and use a standard load and go for a long time with no parts failures.

Your choice.

Mike

ugaarguy
November 9, 2007, 05:45 AM
It's a cotter pin - it's held in by friction - of course you'll feel some resistance taking them in and out. It could also be that the FPR hole on your bolt is on the small side of tolerances, and the FPRs you've been buying are made on the large side of the tolerances by that particular mfr. That would add to the tight feeling you get with removal and insertion, and explain why the permapin won't fit. Heck the FPR hole on your bolt could be out of spec and too small. Have your gunsmith thoroughly check your rifle to see if there might be some problem from a damaged or out of spec part.

As for the FPR being likely to break my limited experience runs against it, and two very experienced folks here have already told you it's not a high breakage part.

You'd also do well to listen to the folks who are warning you to back off on the hot handloads. The AR15 is a much more robust design than many give it credit for, but that's not a valid reason to put potentially dangerous handloads through it. But hey it's your face when an over pressure load sends hot gases through the charging handle port, or worse.

LittleLebowski
November 9, 2007, 08:38 AM
1lostinspace, you SURE you've never seen combat?

Allow me to quote you:

1lostinspace
Member


Join Date: 09-14-07
Posts: 92

when i was in Iraq i killed 5 insurgents but the 6th was 151 yards away i fired and nothing just smoke i fired again he flips me off i fired 5 more times as he walked away phrasing Allah. what gives?


that damn 5.56mm

if it was .308 his head would have exploded.

TexasRifleman
November 9, 2007, 08:45 AM
Removed. Bart thinks he's legit so that's enough for me.

LittleLebowski
November 9, 2007, 09:05 AM
Can we get rid of this kid?

Bartholomew Roberts
November 9, 2007, 09:07 AM
I go though pins like nothing, it's the part most likely to brake.

If you are bending/breaking the firing pin retaining pin, something is wrong with the rifle. The only time I've seen this is on unshrouded bolt carriers where the hammer catches the firing pin collar and pulls on the firing pin as it is being cocked. Even then, it takes a lot to bend one - they should be good for several thousand rounds no problem.

I think Ill have my gun smith sand the bolt a bit.

As a general rule, sanding on the more expensive, critical-to-functioning part so it will accept the $9 part is a bad idea.

I clean my gun every time I shoot and it doesn't brake it's just rough going in and out.

It isn't unusual for people who aren't familiar with the disassembly to have a little trouble putting the firing pin retaining pin back in. Instead of buying "far superior" parts that don't fit your rifle, try giving the pin a little clockwise twist as you insert it. You'll eventually get the hang of it. Absent a noticeable bend in the firing pin, I wouldn't bother replacing it just because you have some difficulty with assembly.

You might also want to read the manual and become familiar with the terminology (when you say "bolt" I assume you are referring to the "bolt carrier" which is the part where the firing pin retaining pin is located).

I'll go one step further and say you are just plain ole FOS.

Actually I read the post in question and 1lostinspace is being sarcastic about the claims that 5.56 is not effective past 150yds. I don't think he intended to seriously claim that he was a veteran and shot five people. It might not be real clear because 1lostinspace doesn't communicate very effectively or write well; but I don't think he is trolling.

foghornl
November 9, 2007, 09:28 AM
I have no experience with the AR-Series Rifles, but with many years of "device" repair (firearms/electrical/mechanical/hydraulic) I offer this point of view...

If one part/assembly constantly fails, it is 1 of 2 things..

1. Bad Design or manufacturing...possiblE, but generally not likely with the AR-xx

2. Something external to the device is out of spec...Bad ammo for firearms, power out of spec for electrical things, wrong hydraulic fluid/fittings on those applications.

1lostinspace
November 9, 2007, 11:25 AM
If i twist it the go in they just seem slightly scratched or bent.
I have only had this problem with one of my AR's. I called the company that makes the permapin and they said it should just slide in.
Well I give up I am going to send them back and get some extra pins.

taliv
November 9, 2007, 04:06 PM
i bent two pins jamming them in there years ago. i haven't bent one lately. granted, that could be because i don't clean my guns very often anymore.


edit: that load is not overpressure in my guns, but i can't speak to his
and by bent, i mean, the two legs of the pin spread about 1mm apart at the end so you can't get it easily through the far hole.

aloharover
November 9, 2007, 04:24 PM
#3 I go though pins like nothing, it's the part most likely to brake.

#18well like I said they don't brake but tend to be finicky going in and out.

This is why some people may be getting confused.

clang
November 9, 2007, 05:06 PM
The only thing that drives me nuts is it is B - R - E - A - K not B - R - A - K - E

1lostinspace
November 9, 2007, 11:38 PM
fine. break

boredelmo
November 9, 2007, 11:51 PM
Are you guys really serious? It's not THAT hard to spot sarcasm.

His post about combat was obviously a joke...

Geez, this thread reminds me of a real immature forum i used to be on.

LittleLebowski
November 10, 2007, 09:50 AM
It's hard to spot sarcasm when he has the grammatical skills of a third grader. I still think he's just some kid.

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 10:50 AM
LittleLebowski
Senior Member


Join Date: 08-28-06
Posts: 108

It's hard to spot sarcasm when he has the grammatical skills of a third grader. I still think he's just some kid.
LittleLebowski is online now Report Post

Actually I have 2 degrees. For some people English is a second language my first language was Greek. I am now fluent in both. I admit that spelling is not my strong point.

brian923
November 10, 2007, 10:52 AM
what the heck was the point of this thread again:confused:

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 11:07 AM
I was asking if anyone had used a permapin before and if anyone knew why it will not fit my bolt.

hankdatank1362
November 10, 2007, 11:08 AM
Geez, ease up on the guy. He's asking a serious question. Was I the only one to realize his other post claiming "combat experience" was flippin sarcasm the first time I saw it?

Christ we've got people with barely 6 more posts than this guy accusing him of trolling. :banghead:

Not very High Road fellas. And, unfortunately, with the recent influx of members we've got over the past several months, it's been like that a lot lately.


BTW, congrats on just becoming a senior member, you troll. ;)

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 11:18 AM
I am sorry I am new what is trolling?

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 11:23 AM
LittleLebowski
Senior Member


Join Date: 08-28-06
Posts: 108

Can we get rid of this kid?
It's hard to spot sarcasm when he has the grammatical skills of a third grader. I still think he's just some kid.

Your one of those Internet tough guys...aren't you
You have been insulting me all over my own thread...
Maybe this reflects how tough you are in real life.....
I think we can clearly see your immature behavior and subsequently your lack of intelligence is far more evident then any third grader.

LittleLebowski
November 10, 2007, 11:30 AM
OK, I'm not that tough right now because I'm nursing a bone graft to my gunshot wound in my right arm that destroyed over 2.5" of my humerus. But, like I said in answer to your annoying little PM, I live in Fairfax, VA. Come on out in 2 months or so and we'll see who's tough or not.

Meanwhile, I'm not the only one who suspected your poor grammar and ill constructed posts. Suck it up and develop a thicker skin or just maybe, use a browser with a built in spell check (Firefox 2).

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 11:34 AM
I have the spell check
Like I said apology accepted..

You might be an ass sometimes but always a hero.
Thanks for your service

lol you must like having a broken arm challenging me to fight.
JK dude relax.... The lack of sex is getting to you..rub one out.

LittleLebowski
November 10, 2007, 11:46 AM
You sound more and more like a teenager. Here's some enlightening snippets from your PMs.

"Dude I am 240 pounds and crazy as they come."

"well I have been coaching some of the worlds best fighters today. I run an MMA school in Bellflower California."

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 11:52 AM
Your the one talking about you want to kick my ass in PM
I am just telling you the truth.
I started Brazilian Jujitsu back in 94 with the Gracie family then with Chris Bren non, Chris Pork, Joe Winters, Fransico bueno.
Then got into Greco roman freestyle wrestling and Thai boxing.
I am not trying to fight some wounded marine or some crazy guy on the net accusing me to be as intelligent as a 3rd grader.

I really think the lack of sex is getting to you. Take a chill pill.

LittleLebowski
November 10, 2007, 11:54 AM
Oh, you studied with the Gracie family? Well, that changes everything. Definitely provable and not internet bravado.

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 11:54 AM
can someone lock this thing this is going to go on and on and on.
That damn permapin....

1lostinspace
November 10, 2007, 11:55 AM
what ever bro you said you want to kick my ass all I want to know is why this permpin don't fit

Larry Ashcraft
November 10, 2007, 01:37 PM
:rolleyes:

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