[Colt]

I'm sure we've all found ourselves wanting to attend an event or visit a venue that prohibits firearms. Often times, these events are situated in areas or cities where carrying a concealed weapon is a good idea.

If the event itself doesn't have provisions for storing arms, you have to choose between leaving your CCW at home, or in the car.

What if a private company offered a "Gun Valet"? It could be something as simple as a bread truck with customer-lockable lockers lining the interior. (like those $.25 lockers with the orange keys)

Would you consider using such a service? Would running such a service be legal, or would the operator be considered to be "in possession" of firearms for which he isn't registered?

Just trying to guage interest.

[Flame Red]

I am not a lawyer, but I would think each state/muncipality might have different laws. Would I use it - probably not. The only time I don't pack is if I have jury duty. Else I just don't go there. You might want to post this as a poll too.

[earplug]

I like the idea, while working as A courier, where to stash my weapon on several occasions was A problem.
The lady manning the Hotdog wagon out front of the court house would do it for free. I'd have paid her $5.00.

[Colt]

If a private company provided storage for your CCW at an event or venue that prohibited weapons, would you utilize such a service? What would you pay for such a service?

Assume that the company would provide safe and secure storage of your firearm. It would only be handled by you, etc...

[Colt]

Good idea. Poll posted.

[medic15al]

Yes. I would be happy that they would accomodate CCWs. Now my BUG however.....:)

[SSN Vet]

not sure if I'd use it or not.........

but if I understand correctly, these type of valet or check counters were very common in the "wild west"....

just read up on the Earps and Doc. Holliday.....

[Infidel]

No. Never. I just won't go there.

[The Annoyed Man]

I go to a venue that prefers I not carry my pistol inside every Sunday morning, and it is not a political issue. It is about trusting that, if you are there, then you are exactly where God wants you to be; and if you are exactly where God wants you to be, then nothing can happen to you that will catch God by surprise or that He has not made provision for. I have no problem with it.

On the other hand, if it is a public place like an amusement park or something, and they have a rule about barring CCW from the premises, then I probably won't go.

The latter begs the question: How do you guys feel about simply locking your weapon up in your vehicle until you leave?

[simpleguy]

Though I believe no one has the right to unarm us, if a company or venue insists, they should be required to provide a valet at no cost.

[yesit'sloaded]

concealed means concealed.

[glockman19]

Interesting Idea. Kind of like hotel safes in vegas. IMHO it would have to be permanently attached to a structure that could not be easily moved. You program the Combo.

[silverking]

If I can't legally carry there, I won't go there.

[tnieto2004]

If I can't legally carry there, I won't go there.

You won't go to vote?

[REOIV]

Calling it a valet threw me.

It works like a coat check. But in addition to checking your coat you would check your fire arm. Naturally if you are found or caught with a firearm at a later point you'd be kicked out, beaten etc, but those that complied would get a ticket number and their gun etc would be stowed away until they came to claim it.

They still do this in many places in the world. Henry Rollins did a show in Moscow and was amazed that they had a gun/coat check section in one of the clubs he went to.

Would I use it? No probably not. It would have to be a really classy place or only place for miles before I'd consider it.

The reason they did this so much in the Wild West is you can't just leave stuff in your saddle bags and trust people not to mess with it. Much like riding a motorcycle cross country. At least with a car you have a trunk and doors that lock.

[General Geoff]

The only place I'm not allowed to carry is a court house, and court houses do provide weapons lockers. So it's a non-issue for me (and should be for anyone else in PA, for that matter).

[Baron357]

No way, maybe you guys in free states could think about it but up here in MA the local police would do anything to impound a truck full of civilian firearms, and once they did good luck ever seeing them again.

If it was a permanent structure maybe, but similar situation... what if there is an incident, say a fight breaks out or a fire or any situation were the police take control, the first thing they will do is confiscate or at least stop access to the stored guns.

My gun is My gun.

[tnieto2004]

I wouldn't use it

[Colt]

The only place I'm not allowed to carry is a court house

I live in PA, too. Guns are prohbited at Lincoln Financial Field and Citizens Bank Park. Other attractions on private property also prohibit weapons.

They don't pat you down at Citizens, but they do at the link.

[romma]

I said yes for free... Only if I had to though. I would rather see the venues offer free lockers though.

[CajunBass]

You won't go to vote?

I've never been told I couldn't carry a gun while voting. Never seen a sign anywhere.

About the only place I might have ever had a chance to use a "valet service" would be at a hospital. I'd probably just lock the gun in my car, same as I always have.

[tnieto2004]

I've never been told I couldn't carry a gun while voting. Never seen a sign anywhere.


Here is the law in your state .. The law is the law rather you have read it or not..

§ 18.2-283.1. Carrying weapon into courthouse.

It shall be unlawful for any person to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth any (i) gun or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile or projectile of any kind, (ii) frame, receiver, muffler, silencer, missile, projectile or ammunition designed for use with a dangerous weapon and (iii) any other dangerous weapon, including explosives, stun weapons as defined in § 18.2-308.1, and those weapons specified in subsection A of § 18.2-308. Any such weapon shall be subject to seizure by a law-enforcement officer. A violation of this section is punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to any police officer, sheriff, law-enforcement agent or official, conservation police officer, conservator of the peace, magistrate, court officer, or judge while in the conduct of such person's official duties.

(1988, c. 615; 2004, c. 995; 2007, cc. 87, 519.)

[lucky_fool]

Here is the law in your state .. The law is the law rather you have read it or not..

Nowhere in that law does it say that you can't carry in a polling place. We don't generally vote at the courthouse in this state.

It is, in fact, legal to carry at a polling place in Virginia unless that polling place is a school or other already prohibited place (which mine is, unfortunately).

[tnieto2004]

A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or
while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by
the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization
of the court;

Here is the law in my state ..

[cpaspr]

The Annoyed Man - I go to a venue that prefers I not carry my pistol inside every Sunday morning, and it is not a political issue. It is about trusting that, if you are there, then you are exactly where God wants you to be; and if you are exactly where God wants you to be, then nothing can happen to you that will catch God by surprise or that He has not made provision for. I have no problem with it.

On the other hand, if it is a public place like an amusement park or something, and they have a rule about barring CCW from the premises, then I probably won't go.

Not meaning to pick nits, but the same God that knows all about you when you're in church also knows all about you (and everyone else, including BGs) when you're out in public in other places. With that logic, that God knows all about you and can protect you if He wants to, why bother carrying anywhere? I'm not attacking you personally, just the mindset.

Nothing catches God by surprise, I'll agree with you there. But I don't agree that we're always supposed to be sheep for any wolf (read: bad guy) to ravage at will, just because God knows what's happening. Remember, it was Jesus who asked his disciples if they had a sword. They had two, and He said that was enough. Now, He had twelve legions of angels at his disposal, so he obviously wasn't asking them if they had a sword for His protection.

I believe we are responsible to be prepared to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Yes, God knows what's happening all the time, but we don't. He's not caught off guard by bad guys attacking us, but we may be. Sometimes he may want them removed by our hand, and the only way we can be used thusly is if we are already prepared.

[tnieto2004]

I think opens a whole new can of worms ..

[sm]

Interesting replies.

All I will say is, since I was a brat, such means to store a firearm with trusted persons, when one could not, and later with metal detectors especially could not carry, have been done.

Improvise Adapt Overcome.

Best to not box one's self into a corner...

Let us say one worked in a Gov't Building, or on Military Base.
Person commutes, well the real concern of commuting all this distance, having car trouble, whatever is a concern.
Might be a wife, or daughter...
Commute in, leave gun, head on in.
Time to commute back home, retrieve firearm, and go on home.

Private ranges , Mom&Pop pawn shops, Mom&Pop Gun stores, Grocery stores, Gas Stations...Beauty /Barber Shops, Cleaners, ...

Nobody advertised this, just low key and only like trusted kind...

More than once I stopped into say "hello", leave gun, head into places with metal detectors and after business done, go back and say "good bye and thanks".
Some even escort one to front door, be there to escort you back when time to leave.

[Nebor]

I carry everywhere that doesn't have metal detectors. I don't go to places that have metal detectors.

[sm]

I don't go to places that have metal detectors.

Then let us hope you never have to visit the local FBI office, Federal Courthouse to give a deposition, have business in a Correction Facility, and the like.

While I choose to not frequent some places, legitimate business is business, such as seeing a Fed Prosecutor, or Judge, for instance.

There are some places with metal detectors, and I am allowed to CCW.

Firearms are fine, still just one tool in the tool box.
Internet is interesting, and one interesting aspect is the difference of persons that their total world revolves around a firearm, and those that live, stay safe, are armed, whether they have a firearm or not.

[Bones11b]

I have in the past, and I'm sure will most likely in the future valet my pistol. The reason I did it in the past is I used to travel to the Dominican Republic quite frequently. There at some night clubs they have a gun check right next to the coat check. I would leave my "nice" gun in the vehicle and carry a cheap 9mm or .380 to the night club. The only advice I give if you find yourself using a gun valet is keep your ammo on your person. Well established night clubs will not lose your gun but employees will steal some or all of your bullets to sell on the black market. Never had a problem with using a gun valet, and thankfully never had a problem that required my using my gun while at a night club. I find it interesting that in D.R. guns are so common place I never really gave a second thought to the fact that most people I associated with carried.

[ClickClickD'oh]

Think about something for a second. The point in which a ND is most likely is removing from or holstering a weapon. How many of you guys want everybody walking into the opera pulling their firearm to put it in that weapons locker?

[Cosmoline]

Yes, sure. Provided it was all legal and the company was legit and gave me a receipt I'd go for it. Better than having to walk to the court unarmed. For some reason they don't let us pack iron in the courtroom.

[BobMcG]

Had to vote no on this.
For one, can you imagine if the storage vehicle got hijacked?
More importantly, where I live I can't legally hand over possession and control of my handgun to another person just because I can't go into an establishment with it.

[TX1911fan]

More importantly, where I live I can't legally hand over possession and control of my handgun to another person just because I can't go into an establishment with it.

I think the obvious assumption is that the valet service is authorized to accept handguns. This isn't some ex-con trying to work his way up the societal ladder.

I voted yes, and I'd even pay $5. When the Dallas Stars used to play in the old Reunion Arena, I used to have to walk quite a ways to get to the arena. Downtown Dallas at night is not the best place to be. If there was a gun valet outside the arena, I would have paid $5 for the comfort of carrying all the way to the doors. You bet.

[ronwill]

To many veriables in a "portable" service. I may use a more permanent system such as a locker room, but not a mobile system.

[40SW]

100% no.
why?
1. I go attend a venue such as a nightclub or concert
2. I check my weapon at the entry point.
3. I am without said weapon for the duration of the event.
4. I need to use the restroom facility during the duration of said event.
5. I get heldup or mugged in restroom facility, no weapon. Not good!:scrutiny: Situation unacceptable.
6. Conclusion: Avoid venues that leave you vulnerable or expose you to threats without your ccw.

[BobMcG]

I think the obvious assumption is that the valet service is authorized to accept handguns. This isn't some ex-con trying to work his way up the societal ladder.

I hear ya, but when you live in NY you find it easy to expect the worst. I think it reasonable to expect that no new laws or exception would or will ever be made to make life easier for handgun permit holders. Quite the opposite. And as it stands right now, it would be out of the question to be able to do it.

With the likes of Clinton and Schumer running things I expect some day that a new law will be passed saying you can't take your handgun onto any state property... including state highways. You'll still be able to carry... just not from point A to point B. :rolleyes: We wouldn't be needing a valet service. ;)

[akodo]

I got to agree with cpaspr

It is about trusting that, if you are there, then you are exactly where God wants you to be; and if you are exactly where God wants you to be, then nothing can happen to you that will catch God by surprise or that He has not made provision for. I have no problem with it.

Using the standard Christian God, all knowing and all seeing, infinite wisdom, you aren't going to catch Him unaware anywhere.

To take it a few steps further, "Exactly where God wants you to be" well maybe that is in the pew, armed, because God knows that on a certain sunday in the not too distant future, an axe murderer is going to come walking in.

Or, if you are 'safe' in a church because 'God will protect you here!' well then, why do they care about your gun? If God is going to stop a gangmember from running in and killing a witness against him, won't God also stop your accidental discharge? If it is 'part of God's plan' that a gangmember runs in and shoots the choir director/witness against him, and attempting to stop him would be 'challenging God's plan' then how can they say with certainty that it isn't backwards, that it is 'God's plan' that you carry. After all, it is His church, he can make your gun go *poof* if he doesn't want it there

[Omaney]

I went to see Ron White at the Majestic in Dallas several years ago. This involved a lengthy drive and a two block walk from the parking lot to the venue. Lo and behold, a no firearms allowed sign at the door. A coat check was available, but not a gun check. I was very uncomfortable walking back to the car but even more uncomfortable on the walk back to the theater. I was not going to say to SWMBO that we're going home. I could have just said "F*** it" and carried my pistol inside anyway but aren't we supposed to be a law abiding bunch? In Texas, a gun check would be a convenience and I would surely have used it that night. This gives me a great idea for a new business opportunity. I think I'll go buy and old armored car and convert it to a mobile gun valet service. I could just go park it in front of American Airlines Center every game/event night and charge $5.00 a piece...Genius!!!

[Sistema1927]

I truly believe that any venue that will not allow you to carry should provide secure weapons storage AND should become legally liable for your safety.

If they don't want to provide the lockers and the enhanced security then they should allow you to carry. (In other words, let me be responsible for my personal security unless you want to take on a whole lot of expense on my behalf.)

[The Annoyed Man]

Not meaning to pick nits...That's quite alright. I debated that issue with myself for a while before I finally arrived at the conclusion I came to. My question was, does the fact that I keep a pistol for home and personal protection mean that I am not trusting in God to be my protector? The answer I came up with was this: God often uses people as the agents of His will. Therefore, God might call me to be the agent of my own or my family's protection. That being case, I should be prepared for that call if it comes. I no longer have an issue with that.

Also, when I wrote my earlier post, I did not forget about the cases in which there have been church shootings during services. The decision to carry a weapon is an intensely personal one, as is the decision to believe in and worship the Almighty. In my particular case, I do not feel called to carry during church services. Maybe someone else feels differently, and that is their rightful choice. I am sure that my church's preference for not bringing weapons inside has an exception for LEOs, on or off duty. I know from personal experience that a large number of the members are gun owners and hunters - including among the pastoral staff - so I don't believe that the policy is politically motivated. It is entirely possible that my church gets better property and liability insurance rates if they observe a no-guns policy - something like that. In any case, I love my church and am not disturbed by the policy.

[Robert Hairless]

I go to a venue that prefers I not carry my pistol inside every Sunday morning, and it is not a political issue. It is about trusting that, if you are there, then you are exactly where God wants you to be; and if you are exactly where God wants you to be, then nothing can happen to you that will catch God by surprise or that He has not made provision for.

Most churches are "Gun Free Zones," which probably is why church shootings are so common that I got tired of copying them from a Google search. Here are just a few of the many church shootings:

Living Church of God (Brookfield, WI) (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/14/national/main679823.shtml)

Wedgewood Baptist Church (Fort Worth, TX) (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec99/shooting_9-16.html)

The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church (North Baton Rouge, LA) (http://crime.about.com/b/2006/05/21/three-killed-in-baton-rouge-church-shooting.htm)

Sash Assembly of God (Sash, TX) (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167330,00.html)

First Presbyterian Church (Moscow, ID) (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/05/20/three_dead_in_idaho_church_shooting/4394/)

World Changers Church International (Brunswick, GA) (http://www.religionnewsblog.com/11980/church-shooting-a-mystery)

First Congregational Church (Neosho, MO) (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/346818/missouri_governor_matt_blunt_visits.html)

Our Lady of Peace (Lynbrook, NY) (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9403E5DF1E39F936A25750C0A9649C8B63)

Peniel Baptist Church (Orlando, FL) (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2006/04/church_shooting.html)

Acts Full Gospel Church (Oakland, CA) (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/17/BAG0GON6LV1.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea)

[zoom6zoom]

I've never been told I couldn't carry a gun while voting. Never seen a sign anywhere.

It is legal to carry into a polling place in Virginia, and I know several folks who have, even open carrying. However, a large percentage of polling places are in schools - and that trumps it.

[Mtnvalley]

On-topic, I'd think a prerequisite for such a service would be a private area for one to unholster. Not only would whippin' 'em out in public view scare the weewee out of some passersby, but there's a bit of a security risk to the person checking the gun.

I, for one, might consider using such a service but would NOT care to make visible what I carry and where I carry it, to just anyone who happens to be looking. (and no, I don't use a Smartcarry or Thunderwear :neener:). That's the stuff that fouled draws are made of (should an observer decide that they and their friends like your gun), and one may lose any element of surprise that concealed carry affords.

Speaking on the sub-topic (church): I had a pistol instructor whose father was a minister, and who carried his Browning in the pulpit every Sunday for 30+ years.

The pastor at our church is ex-LEO, ex-marine, and his wife (also a pastor) made mention one time that it was difficult for them serving in Bermuda years ago because they as US citizens couldn't legally have firearms and they were used to having them around the house. I suspect he carries in the pulpit as well, though I've never seen him print.

I was talking with one of the church's elders today, and after circling around the topic for a while, discovered that he has a CCW and carries as well. Ours is a fairly large church, and I'm certain that that there are a number carrying every Sunday. What number that is, I of course have no way to know. I do know there are no signs posted at the entrances proscribing carry, and I'm not aware of any formal policy on the matter.

No one of good heart or conscience wants to shoot another human being...but no one of sound mind wants to die or be severely wounded at the hands of another needlessly. Luke 22:35-38 is pretty widely cited as covering the issue, but, as always...the Word is what it means to you, and interpretations vary.

[6_gunner]

I voted yes, if it's free. Although I generally avoid places which prohibit carry, I think that any place which prohibits weapons should provide customers with a secure place to store them. And, like Sistema said, they should be legally responsible for the customers' safety if they wish to deny them the ability to defend themselves.

My issue with businesses (especially restaurants, theaters and clubs) that prohibit weapons is not so much the fact that I'm unarmed while I'm there, but the fact that anyone who sees me leave KNOWS that I'm unarmed. For this reason, I would be much more likely to frequent a business which prohibited weapons if they provided a place to store them while you're on the premises.

Then a question:

A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
...(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or
while early voting is in progress;...

Like some other people posting here, I had assumed that one could carry at the polls as long as the poll is not held in a "firearms free zone."
Is the above law a state or national law? If it's a state law, then what state is it? I'm in Indiana; what's my situation?

[GRB]

Though I believe no one has the right to unarm us, if a company or venue insists, they should be required to provide a valet at no cost.You have no right to carry a firearm on another person's private property if they decide you should not; their right to determining how to run their property overides any right you have if you enter onto their property in the great majority of cases. So if you want to enter their property, they can 'disarm' you. Of course you can choose not to enter therein.

As for other places, don't you go to the post office, or to federally insured banks? I know for a fact that it is prohibited, in most cases, to carry into U.S. Postal facilities, and I believe it is likewise for federally insured banks.

As for me, I have used lock boxes at courts, in casinos, amusemnet parks, and in hotels, so why not somewhere else. I also have removed my firearm and unloaded in friends' homes when they asked me to do so. I would prefer to be allowed to carry at all times, but will follow the law or a property oweners desires if I want to enter that property.

All the best,
Glenn B

[Fast Frank]

Here in Houston, we are not allowed to carry our CCW into a gun show.

Yes, I know it's crazy but that's how it is. Big legal notice, and a cop sitting right there.

So I have to stop, with no concealment at all, and unload my pistol on the sidewalk outside the gun show.

Then, I hand my pistol to the cop and he ties it open with a zip tie and holds my bullets until I leave the gun show.

My pistol goes back in my IWB holster and rides around with a zip tie down the barrel.

After the show, they give me back my bullets (I always sing the Lynard Skynard song for them).

At that point, I have to stand on the sidewalk out front and reload.

It's a huge hassle.

I follow good gun handling practices, but you can't expect everybody to know what good practice means- so this is not safe.

And not to mention that the area around the big convention center is infested with street people. I WILL NOT park several blocks away and walk unarmed through this bad neighborhood.

I think your idea would work in this situation.

[ZombiesAhead]

Would you consider using such a service? Would running such a service be legal, or would the operator be considered to be "in possession" of firearms for which he isn't registered?

Since when do you have to "register" firearms you are "in possession" of? Maybe it's different in your state...

[Odd Job]

I voted no, because the premise was that the lockers are on a vehicle.
If it has wheels, it is a potential take away. You can't bank on knowing the location of your guns. So no deal, if it is in a vehicle.

Fixed storage: I have used, but not often, in South Africa. Once was because of an unexpected visit to a bar late one night. That was a single key safe. The other one I remember was a high security deal at a scrapyard of all places. That was two-key safe in a passage with iron gates and cameras at both ends, only one person allowed in at a time.
If it is a fixed safe and it requires a key that I can hold, I'll go for it if needs be. Otherwise no.

[Lashlarue]

I have used the ones at the Texas State Prisons, but I have been told more than once to leave it in my car, I'm not law enforcement but I am legally licensed so I'm not breaking any laws by arriving at the prison armed and they do have a place to check your weapons. Having carried for almost ten years, I simply don't think about being armed anymore, my weapon is part of me.

[TX1911fan]

I know for a fact that it is prohibited, in most cases, to carry into U.S. Postal facilities, and I believe it is likewise for federally insured banks.


Glen, your fact may be legend, or it may apply only to your state. In my CHL course here in Texas, no one mentioned a prohibition on carrying in a post offce, and I have seen no signage to suggest it is prohibited. I know for a FACT that I can carry into any bank in Texas, as long as it is not posted with the Texas 30.06 sign.

[TexasRifleman]

know for a fact that it is prohibited, in most cases, to carry into U.S. Postal facilities,

Please cite a source for your "fact".

This carry in the Post Office thing has been tossed around for a long time.

The most in depth review was done by an attorney, Robert Firriolo, and his finding was that lawful concealed carry was OK in a Post Office.

The USPS changed some wording in 39 CFR 232.1 and Mr Firriolo is re-evaluating the impact of that so for now there is some question as to the legality but no one has been charged with a crime under the new regs so it's up in the air for the moment.

So if you know for a "fact" that it's illegal, please tell us and the most knowledgable attorney on the subject how you know that.

The changed wording is in 232.1 L:

Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes.

Prior to November 2005 that said "lawful purpose" instead of "official purpose". Under the "lawful purpose" concealed carry was most certainly permitted, since it is a lawful thing to do.

However, we know that taking a firearm into a post office to mail it is fine, so this regulation clearly has some problems, which is why it is under review with the new language.

USPS regulations also describe in great detail exactly how a firearm must be shipped from a post office, when firearms can enter a post office, etc. So the question becomes, "what is an official purpose?"

If shipping your privately owned firearm is an official purpose, then would carrying under an "officially issued permit" not be?

That's the legal question, and many are awaiting the analysis by real lawyers to see where it falls.

So it's WAY too simplistic to just say "you can't do it and I know that for a fact".

Now, prudence would dictate you avoid it for the moment unless you want to be the test case, but there is no certainty how it would go.

[The Annoyed Man]

THIS THREAD (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=322093) about contacting mall management regarding their CCW policy prompted me to come back and revisit this thread because of comments I made previously about not carrying in church. I had previously misunderstood the law to say that one could carry in church, but that I chose not to do so.

I just took my CHL class a couple of days ago and have had the Texas law refreshed in my mind regarding carrying in church. The following comes straight out of my brand new copy of the 2007-2008 Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statutes handbook:PC 46.035
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun in concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogoe, or other established place of religious worship.So, in Texas anyway, it is illegal for a license holder to carry his weapon into a church, and that puts paid to the question.

[The Annoyed Man]

Sorry to revive a dead horse for another whippin', but I just learned today that I am wrong about CHL carry in churches in Texas. Someone pointed out a codicil in the law that I had not noticed, and if you read that codicil along with the part of the law that I just quoted above, what you get is:PC 46.035 UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do[es] not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
...which means that, unless a church in Texas posts a 30.06 sign at each entrance, CHL carry is by default legal.

Never let it be said that The Annoyed Man is too annoyed to admit when he knows he's wrong. :D

[mekender]

You have no right to carry a firearm on another person's private property if they decide you should not; their right to determining how to run their property overrides any right you have if you enter onto their property in the great majority of cases. So if you want to enter their property, they can 'disarm' you. Of course you can choose not to enter therein.

this whole private property rights thing is a load of crap... any place that services the public isnt private property... they cant require you to go topless inside, they cant require everyone that enters to drink a beer or smoke a cigarette... they cant prohibit you from bringing your car keys in...

but for some reason the only physical item that is guaranteed by the constitution is something they can prohibit you from carrying???

sorry but dictation of what can and cannot be done on private property isn't guaranteed in the constitution... carrying arms is...

the antis argue that private property owners have all these rights... but then they determine that some private property can be seized for government use in the cases of "eminent domain"

[geekWithA.45]

You have no right to carry a firearm on another person's private property if they decide you should not; their right to determining how to run their property overrides any right you have if you enter onto their property...

Sigh.

Here we go again with the libertarian dogma that all property rights are absolute, and fully vested in the property owner at all times.


And once again, I refute the issue.


The proposition is demonstrably false: a restaurant owner has NO RIGHT to regulate the content of a private conversation or speech that is peacably taking place at a diner's table, even if such speech is inconsistent with cultural marxism...er...is polititically incorrect.

There are various DEGREES of privacy of property, and the property owner's rights justly vary with the degree of privacy of the property.

Case 1: Your rights as a property owner are at their highest in the privacy of your home or dwelling. They are not, however, absolute. You may not kill, injure, or enslave your guests or people who blunder into your yard.

Case 2: They are diminished somewhat when your property is opened to a select group, such as employees in your office or plant. The owner's rights are balanced against the rights of your employees.

Case 3: Your property rights are diminished to an even greater degree when you open your property up to the public, as in the case of a shop, restaurant, theater, and so forth.

We simply don't have a national concensus on the issue of how to balance the interest of property owners agains the interests of the peacable armed public in cases 2 or 3.

Of course, I have my own beliefs as to how they should be balanced, but I don't want to drag this thread any further off course.

[The Annoyed Man]

I probably shouldn't have posted that last bit. I just felt that, since I had posted a factual error in my previous post, I owed it to man up, and post that I was wrong and why.