45 Gap

[LAR-15]

Are police forces adopting the 45 GAP?

[average_shooter]

Is anybody using 45 GAP?

Kinda seemed like another solution without a problem to me...

[MrBill120]

The New York State Police are using it now

[19-3Ben]

The New York State Police are using it now

Probably got a great discount on the guns from Glock. I understand Glock normally does that.

[Kevin108]

GA and NY State Police

[HorseSoldier]

Yep, GSP in Georgia just recently (last year or two?) switched from .40 cal Glocks to .45 GAP Glocks.

[hotpig]

Glock gave a big discount like they did in the 90's to get Police to change to the 40 cal.

[Quiet]

Are police forces adopting the 45 GAP?
Yes.

Currently, four state law enforcement agencies have adopted the .45GAP.
New York State Police, Pennsylvania State Police, Georgia State Patrol and South Carolina Highway Patrol.
Smaller departments have also authorized the use of the .45GAP.

Even with the law enforcement discount, the .45GAP Glocks are more expensive than the 9x19mm, .40S&W and .357SIG Glocks.

[tkkr]

Why not just use .45acp?

[bigghoss]

^ thats what I do.

[Harley Quinn]

http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_handguns/glock37_0305/

As mentioned several police agencies have gone to it.
*********

After extensive testing four state law enforcement agencies have decided to adopt the .45 G.A.P. as a replacement to their current issue 9x19mm's (NY) or .40 caliber weapons (GA, PA, SC). The New York State Police, Georgia State Patrol, Pennsylvania State Police, and South Carolina Highway Patrol have all adopted the Glock Model 37 and .45 G.A.P.

Due to its acceptance by law enforcement and the popularity of subcompact handguns for concealed carry, more manufacturers have decided to produce pistols chambered in .45 G.A.P. As of 2007, Para-Ordnance and Springfield Armory are offering their micro-1911 series in .45 G.A.P. Springfield Armory is also offering its xD line in .45 G.A.

:):)

[james_bond]

I vote the .45 ACP just because of avalibility and price compared the the GAP. I read an article (forgive me I can;t rember where), but they said, "The .45 GAP is the best answer to the question no one asked."

[mikec]

Why not just use .45acp?

Maybe because the person making the decision doesn't know firearms and was swayed by marketing. "Newer HAS to be BETTER, right?"

Is there any real difference in grip size? Maybe the smaller framed folks like the feel better?

[tkkr]

Doesnt the .45acp have enough trouble penetrating as it is? Why make it worse by shortening it?

[average_shooter]

tkkr-

My understanding is that due to modern powders, the case of a .45 ACP is not filled, leaving air space. By shortening the case all that is really happening is removing that air space inside the cartridge. In double stacks this may also make the grip feel less "wide" by actually being narrower front to back.

What I've read about the .45 GAP is that ballistics and penetration are comparable to the .45 ACP.

[tkkr]

Arent all cases supposed to have air pockets? Which is why bullet setback is dangerous in the first place?

[average_shooter]

Not necessarily. Some reloaders like to use powders that fill the case so there's less chance of double charging. Some loads actually need the powder to be compressed when the bullet is seated. Too much air can cause wierd ignition or misfires. I just saw a thread the other day (think it was in the reloading forum...) about using too little powder for a case leading to misfires and possible overpressure.

Remember too that many cartridges were developed back in the day of black powder which is a bit more "fluffy" than modern ball-type powders. When the new powders came around, the case length was already a standard and so wasn't shortened. People just put less of the modern powder in the case.

[tkkr]

If thats true, why does bullet setback lead to kb's?

[esmith]

Why not just use .45acp?

Their guns would have probably sold better but im guessing their logic was that if they chamber their guns in .45 GAP that they will make more money through ammo sales as well as through pistol sales. Whoever decided GAP probably figured, "Hey, our guns are amazing anyway, so even if people don't like the GAP they will still buy our pistols because of how good they are."

[FieroCDSP]

If thats true, why does bullet setback lead to kb's

Over pressure is caused by a lot of things. Powder burn-rate, seating depth, too much powder, too little. THere's a lot of factors, but there's a reason them write a lot of different formulas for loads.

The ideal hunting load is one that takes up as much space as possible in the case, thereby preventing an over-charge, and prevents changes in the burn rate by the powder shifting inside. Faster burning powders need less powder to create more pressure. If you use too little of a fast burning powder, or too slow a powder, the pressure will build too high before the projectile is expelled.

If you have two cartidges of all the same parameters, but set and charged at or near maximum, then reduce the Over-All Length of one by seating the bullet deeper, you will blow that gun up. The reloading forum has a lot of info on pressures and effect. Even better are reloading manuals that discuss load work-ups and wild-cat loadings at length.

[average_shooter]

If thats true, why does bullet setback lead to kb's?

This part of the conversation might be more appropriate for the reloading section, but I'll try to answer as best I can here.

My understanding is this; using fast burning powders generally means using less powder. Using slower powders generally means using more powder. No matter what powder you're using the bullet should always be the same distance into the case, no further.

Setting the bullet too deep basically means it's not moving like it should be by the time the powder reaches a certain point in the burn, resulting in overpressure. As pressure increases behind the bullet it should be moving down the barrel, giving the pressure a way out (the barrel). Jamming the bullet too deep into the case means it isn't far enough down the barrel to mitigate the pressure being generated behind it.

I'm not sure I'm doing a good job explaining it... And I could be wrong... Maybe someone else can come along and help me out?

EDIT: Thanks Fiero. I think you did a better job than I.

[tkkr]

Is it true that the .45gap can only go to 200gr?

[dstorm1911]

The GAP is operating on the same principal as the .40 S&W, they pumped the pressure levels up to the ceiling in order to get the same velocity from the shorter cartridge, same inherent dangers as well which is why bullet set back becomes a danger in some guns without fully supported chambers...

When you shorten the Over all length by setting the bullet back it has nothing to do with how long it takes the bullet to get moving down the barrel etc... you very simply are decreasing the amount of space the gasees have to expand in... this can increase the pressure levels of a high pressure cartridge such as the .40 S&W or the .45 GAP as much as 10,000 or better PSI over maximum that the case can tolerate in a gun without a fully supported chamber such as the Glocks with factory barrels, Taurus autos (particularily the Mil pros) One of the reasons my only .40s are all either XDs or 1911s is because these guns all use a better grip angle not only in ergonomics but the 11 degree angle allows for reliable feeding without having to cut the feed ramp into the chamber as with the others..... in otherwords they have fully supported chambers and can handle much higher pressure levels as the case wall is supported rather than exposed.... a KB in the .40 S&W chambered Glock is caused when the pressure is pushed beyond the cases maximum it then causes the case to blow out in the unsupported area at the bottom of the chamber where the feed ramp had to be cut into the chamber so the magazines could feed the short fat cartridge...

The GAP is limited to 200 grns because the case is not big enough to allow ya to seat the bullet deeper, its literally a fully maxed out case already and seating it long will not allow it to feed from a Glock 9 mm dimension magazine...... ya can load longer bullets like 230 grn if your loading for either an XD or a 1911 pattern gun in .45 GAP but the good ol .45 ACP is still a much better choice by far as its a low pressure round which means it can be loaded MUCH hotter if ya have a gun that can take the extra abuse ie; .45 Super which is simply a ACP with a case .003" longer it was made longer so that the round will not go into battery in a gun that is not beefed up to take it...

As far as the powder burn rates and amounts of powder, might wanna check some loading manuals.. the burn rate of the powder does not neccasarily determine how much powder is used volume wise.. ... the powder granual type has more to determine how well it will fill a case, If ya have a Lee manual (every reloader does) the burn rate chart is a lil outa date and doesn't list newer powders like Tight group which is a VERY fast powder which works very nice for reduced loads which brings us to the other part of misinformation... OAL is always the same........ actually no its not, it can very with 1st different bullet weights (heavier bullets are physically longer) ya can't seat em deeper to get the same OAL UNLESS ya switch to a powder that will allow for a safe pressure level with the case volume reduced by seating the bullet deeper likewise ya can run into problems seating the bullet longer also but generally less so as some slow powders will see the increased case volume as a chance to spike the power curve which can cause a Kaboom as easy as an excessivly short OAL can this is why all variables must be taken into account, just the type of bullet used will greatly effect pressure levels for instance a .40 S&W load

180 grn lead bullet with Tight group powder 2.9 - 3.5 grns OAL 1.125"

Now switch that bullet to a Speer Gold dot jacketed bullet same powder but now 4.2 - 4.7 grns of Tight group with an OAL of 1.135"

so why so much variation after all they are both 180 grn weight bullets right? The lead bullet provides less bore friction, if ya load that jacketed bullet at the lead bullet specs ya run the risk of a "squib" load and erratic pressure spikes usually resulting in very poor accuracy.......


Disclaimer; please do not load to either of the specs above unless ya have em in a published load manual sitting in front of you as we never wanna take a chance on my memory being 100% in this case ya will find the jacketed load in the Lee manual ya won't find the lead load anywhere except Lymans manual and Oregon bullet companies manual as Tight group is a lil tricky for lead slugs....

[tkkr]

I understand now, I thought they had 230gr .45gap rounds.

[hotpig]

I do sale a lot of the Winchester Ranger 230gr GAP. It will never be a big sale item unless Glock started seriously pushing the caliber.

[XD-40 Shooter]

Seems to me that the XD-45 pretty much solved the problem the 45 GAP was adressing, large capacity in a smaller grip frame. Well guess what folks, Springfield did it with the XD-45, 13 rounds with a smaller grip frame that the vast majority of hands will fit. Looks like Springfield in thier infinite wisdom has gone a long way to killing the GAP.:D:neener:

[LAR-15]

Wow I didn't realize 4 big police agencies had went to it.

[10-Ring]

I've shot a Glock 38 a few times & shot a few 100 rounds through it...my gripe is the same one I have in regards to alot of other calibers...why? They're expensive & the ammo is hard to find :confused:

[uncowboy]

I don't know where you guys get some of your information but I have read a LOT of WRONG things in this thread. FIRST the GAP is not a HIGH pressure round . It operated at 23000 CUP as oposed to the 357SIG at 40000CUP and the 40S&W at 36-38000CUP these are pressures where a setback bullet can lead to a KB. It fits in a frame size that will hold a 9mm or 40S&W. This is a must for LE and Military because of smaller employes like women that can't get there hands around a 45ACP size gun. The GAP round can just about duplicate the ACP velositys in all bullet weights. YES a 230 GR fits in the Glock. If anyone has ever carried a gun all day loaded with 11-230GR 45's in it you will know why they push the lighter bullets for LE. If you carry 180 GR you just asved 550 GR in carry weight(Just under a LB) . The 45 Gap does answer a question that was asked. 45 Is better than 9MM and better than 40. It has a bigger bullet at a lot less pressure so it is easier to shoot. LESS felt recoil, again very improtant for LE. It is a great round, any writer that says different has not taken time to do his research and is most likely a hack. THIS IS THE ROUND OF THE FUTURE, It just had a bad start.This is due to a bad marketing stragity. They entered the compition feild and won but that did nothing to bost the rd's credability on the street. They should have marketed it as the best defence round with the FBI tests as well as tourcher tests. Maybe that would have helped it's popularity. Now we will get some actual shooting reports with it you will see it's popularity grow.You can take this to the bank. J.Michael

[Walkalong]

You have some very valid points, but the market determines what makes it and what doesn't. Grip size is a non issue for most folks because there are plenty of guns that fit folks fine. They are not going to make a reduced size 1911 for the GAP cartridge, because it won't sell. Like XD-40 Shooter said, the XD .45 is a pretty small grip for what it holds. If the .45 GAP "is the round of the future", I'll be very suprised. Shocked, actually.

[LAR-15]

Most LE doesn't use 1911s.

I can see this becoming a big LE cartridge like the .40 has become

[BlindJustice]

uncoboy makes some good points - the only thing I want
to add to clarify

The .45 ACP was developed for smokeless powder because
of the U.S. Army's requirement for the cartridge to approximate
the .45 Colt load and John M. Browning came up with the 230 gr.
Rn-FMJ at about the same velocity as the 250 gr.
.45 Colt load. The lanyard on the original 1911 was a
U.S. Cavalry requirement.

And I disagree that the .45 GAP is the cartridge of
the future

[hotpig]

GAP will not be the cartridge of the future unless Glock decides that it should be. If Glock chose to do it, I would give it at least ten years before it replaced the 40 in most LE holsters.

[strat81]

If you carry 180 GR you just asved 550 GR in carry weight(Just under a LB) .
I agree with all of your post except that. In the US, bullets (and powder) are measured in grains, not grams. There are 7000 grains in one pound. 550/7000 = .08 pounds. Bullet weight is relatively immaterial in service pistols when considering how much weight to carry. Bullet weight for ballistic purposes is a different matter.

I dig the 45 GAP, I'd consider getting one if I was in the market for a polymer 45.

[XDKingslayer]

When you shorten the Over all length by setting the bullet back it has nothing to do with how long it takes the bullet to get moving down the barrel etc... you very simply are decreasing the amount of space the gasees have to expand in... this can increase the pressure levels of a high pressure cartridge such as the .40 S&W or the .45 GAP as much as 10,000 or better PSI over maximum that the case can tolerate in a gun without a fully supported chamber such as the Glocks with factory barrels, Taurus autos (particularily the Mil pros) One of the reasons my only .40s are all either XDs or 1911s is because these guns all use a better grip angle not only in ergonomics but the 11 degree angle allows for reliable feeding without having to cut the feed ramp into the chamber as with the others..... in otherwords they have fully supported chambers and can handle much higher pressure levels as the case wall is supported rather than exposed.... a KB in the .40 S&W chambered Glock is caused when the pressure is pushed beyond the cases maximum it then causes the case to blow out in the unsupported area at the bottom of the chamber where the feed ramp had to be cut into the chamber so the magazines could feed the short fat cartridge...

Why don't you read up on the case webbing in the .45 GAP? That will clarify that whole unsupported chamber thing you have going with the GAP.

[Quoheleth]

Hasn't Springfield even nixed the original XD-45, the .45 GAP? I believe all that they are making anymore is the XD-45ACP. I was reading a relatively recent ON TARGET issue where they were talking about the XD-45ACP compact (or is it "sub" compact? I always get that one mixed up...) and the article made it sound like the XD was no longer chambered in the GAP cartridge.

Curious...
Q

[mnw42]

My understanding is that the GAP isn't a high pressure cartridge, but is higher pressure that the ACP. This means that while the ACP can be pushed harder (+P) the GAP can not.

A similar comparison would be between the 9x19 and the .38 Super. Keep in mind that the Super is currently loaded to lower pressures than was intended to prevent potential liability with older guns. You have to push a 9mm pretty hard to make it catch up to a mid-level Super, and a hot super can easily do 1300-1400 fps.

[mpmarty]

The 45acp is superior in every respect to the 45 gap except Glock didn't invent it. It has less capacity and therefore, all else being equal is less powerful. The so called "heavy wall" construction of the gap brass just further decreases the case capacity. The 45 gap is a truly poor design, with only one reason for its existence and that is the shorter grip available with the shorter round. The pressure limit was set higher by SAAMI in order to creep up on 45acp ballistics which it truly doesn't achieve. Take a look at the REAL results of shooting the gap over a chronograph and compare it to 45acp performance. Another point is feed reliability with an even shorter stubby round than the already marginal 45acp. This is why I like the acp but prefer the 10mm as it has a longer cartridge length up to 1.260", and guns built for the 10mm were designed from the start to handle pressures of around 37,500 psi which is NOT the SAAMI pressure limit, the SAAMI limit is 37,500 cup. The numbers are the same but the absolute pressure in either psi or cup is different as 37,500 cup is close to 41,000 psi. It's like being measured in feet and inches and then in meters and millimeters.

[Harley Quinn]

I am wondering could the barrel and slide be put on top of a mdl 22 and shot or on top of a mdl 17 and shot?

They seem to be the same receiver.

Any one know about the tricks of interchangability of this one? I have many that change barrels 357/40 or the 45/10mm/400 Corbon Just curious if the 45 gap is capable also?

:uhoh:

[Brad Johnson]

Why not just use .45acp?

Handle a full-size Glock chambered in .45 ACP and it will be immediately apparent.

Brad

[Haycreek]

Some of these responces are truly mis-informed. The GAP round is comparible to the ACP round over the chrono, and it will shoot 230 grain bullits just fine. It does has compable pressure to the +P ACP. However I know of pressure testing far beyond, -with no signs of excessive pressure, due the the stronger web area. I reoad and shoot both the GAP and the ACP. I have carried and shot the 1911A1 for over 55 years, the ACP is still among my favorites, however, the ACP has nothing over the GAP, most of the naysayers are partial to the ACP, [and there is nothing wrong with that thinking,] and some of the other naysayers don't know what they are talking about, because they have not done the research. I know this, I am no less confident with my m37 in harms way than my 1911. The Glock 37 acually may be the better choice because of RELIABILITY and more rounds in the mag. [and yes, I consider my 1911's to be reliable like yours] :)

[Harley Quinn]

I noticed the specs for the mdl 22 are similar to the GAP mdl 37 as far as the height width and all, but the barrel has to be slightly larger.

So if that is the case, does it fit only into the mdl 37, can it be put into the 21 or can a mdl 22 40 cal barrel be put into the Gap, seems the bushing area of the front (if it had a bushing) would need to be addressed.
Seems like the 45 GAP is a lonely one. Maybe other barrel manufactures are working on it as we write:confused:

Just a few more thoughts about interchangeability of the barrel with others like the 40 cal and 357 Sig can do, or the 45, 10 mm and 400 corbon.

I know why go to the trouble:what: Because;) No this is not a duplicate post just a duplicate thought:D

http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_handguns/glock37_0305/

Good article

[Walkalong]

The Glock 37 acually may be the better choice because of RELIABILITY and more rounds in the mag.
[and yes, I consider my 1911's to be reliable like yours
If so, then your 37 is not a better choice because of RELIABILITY. Pick some other reason.

[uncowboy]

Remember the 45ACP is 100 years old. We have new powders to use in the GAP to get the same results with a shorter case. Most GAP rounds operate at the same pressure as the ACP, Strat81 thanks for corecting my math. I was figureing on 5 mags on the belt (Duty rig) and it is just shy of 1/2 lb. Police and Goverment contracts are where the money is made in the gun business. That is why the gripframe size is important.
J.Michael

[mpmarty]

Yup, the 45acp is OVER 100 years old and is still the foremost caliber in defensive pistol use and carry because it is still the best all around caliber. PDs went to 9mm, 38spl, 40 S&W etc etc because the folks who decide what to carry or authorize don't know squat about firearms, they're politicians after all. Our local PD went to the 45 gap when it came out and have since gone to the 45acp with females carrying 1911 type commander size pistols and the rest using either Glocks or Sig 220s. The 45gap didn't do in real life what it is claimed to do on paper and the internet. Gee, I'm so surprised!! Now, as to the magic "new" propellants, that is so much hokum. There are only two constituents to smokeless powders, nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine. All smokeless powders contain nitrocellulose and some contain some amount of nitroglycerine. The double base powders, those with nitroglycerine, have a somewhat higher energy content than the single base powders. That being said, a given weight of smokeless powder has a specific amount of chemical energy stored in it and if its bullseye or H870 the amount of energy per weight is fairly constant. Yes, there are some variations in burning rate which is all the different powders are about but bottom line, there is no magic powder and if there were, the ammo manufacturers would use it in the 45acp as well as the 45gap and your so called equality vanishes like steam in a desert. The gap in inferior in every way to the acp except in it's percieved magical quality due to being sponsored by the "perfection" folks.

[slzy]

how long will it be before they discover a 357 or 41 mag makes the best duty weapon,and come,full circle?

[mpmarty]

As soon as the 357 mag and 41 mag are available in carry size high cap autoloaders.:neener:

[XDKingslayer]

Some of these responces are truly mis-informed. The GAP round is comparible to the ACP round over the chrono, and it will shoot 230 grain bullits just fine. It does has compable pressure to the +P ACP. However I know of pressure testing far beyond, -with no signs of excessive pressure, due the the stronger web area. I reoad and shoot both the GAP and the ACP. I have carried and shot the 1911A1 for over 55 years, the ACP is still among my favorites, however, the ACP has nothing over the GAP, most of the naysayers are partial to the ACP, [and there is nothing wrong with that thinking,] and some of the other naysayers don't know what they are talking about, because they have not done the research. I know this, I am no less confident with my m37 in harms way than my 1911. The Glock 37 acually may be the better choice because of RELIABILITY and more rounds in the mag. [and yes, I consider my 1911's to be reliable like yours]

Give it up chief. You aren't going to educate the ACP kool-aid drinkers because they don't want to learn.

I've even given up showing them links to tests and data because they will simply not read them and still argue with you.

What do you, I, firearm manufacturers, bullet manufacturers, and 4 state police agencies know over them?

[Harley Quinn]

Both the 357 and 41 have been in the main stream (some depts) at one time or another for Leo in CA anyway. What they found was most officers could not handle them. To much power for the avg person, especially since they have gone to the smaller handed folks.

Remember though we talk about it a lot the firearm is the least used of all the weapons avaliable to LEO. Unless in the special units it seems that they are just not that well trained anymore. Shooting and hitting what you are aiming at, has taken a step backwards it seems.

Pray and spray is common discussion now with the Hi Cap thoughts.:uhoh:

[mikec]

Handle a full-size Glock chambered in .45 ACP and it will be immediately apparent.


Try an XD in .45ACP and see how you like it. A proper gun, a proper cartridge.

[Quiet]

Springfield Armory was the second firearm manufacterer to make a handgun that uses the .45GAP. They still offer the XD in .45GAP, which they made before the XD was available in .45ACP.

Para-Ordnance is the third firearm manufacterer to make handguns that use the .45GAP. They offer micro-1911 style pistols.

Of the four state law enforcement agencies that adopted the .45GAP, one switched from the 9x19mm and the other three switched from .40S&W.

[Bullet]

I think some of the 45ACP guys are afraid Glock made something better – 45 GAP. Don’t worry guys you can keep your 45 ACP’s, some people like antiques.

[ArchAngelCD]

Is the 45 GAP really that much better than the 40 S&W? The PA State Police turned in their Beretta Model 96 for a Glock Model 37. IMO that isn't a good trade. If they were changing over to a 45 GAP from a 9mm Beretta 92 it would be a different story but there's nothing wrong with the 40 S&W.

[mavracer]

I think some of the 45ACP guys are afraid Glock made something better – 45 GAP. Don’t worry guys you can keep your 45 ACP’s, some people like antiques.
I think sombody who thinks this thinks hardware matters more than software.
but after it's all said and done it still won't matter what caliber or how many you have in your gun if your tactics and situational awareness suck

[Harley Quinn]

I was talking to a guy who sells many guns and is a Glock dealer, he mentioned the 45 GAP turned out to be a dud, no one wanted them.

He was tired of telling folks what they were, they would look at it handle it and then put it down. Was handled so much he ended up selling it used:what:
:D

[hotpig]

I'm not a official Glock dealer but I do sale some Glocks. My new Glock sales have been dominated by GAP sales all this year. Used Glocks I sale more 9mm than anything else.

[Choclabman]

The three local gun store owner's I know, are saying the .45GAP has outsold Glocks in .45ACP. The sales of Glocks in .45 caliber are greater in .45GAP than .45ACP.

The GSP has gone to the .45GAP. Ammo for the .45GAP can be found at any of the local gun stores. Ammo for .45GAP at these store's, is cheaper than .45ACP. People seem to be buying, and liking the .45GAP.

I tried the .45GAP and really liked it. I liked it enough, to buy a G38 for the collection. That G38 has become on of my wife's, favorite pistol. Recoil is very light, and it fits her small hands. I have nothing negative to say about the .45GAP.

People seem to cry, about the .45GAP. I find that very amusing. When pushed many of these blowhards, have NO firsthand experience with the .45GAP. Just more gun store commandos, talking BS out the side of their mouths
It would be funny, if Glock did the same thing with the .45GAP, as he/they did with the G22 and .40S&W. Police Depts across the nation using the .45GAP. Civilians seeing this, go to the .45GAP in droves. The .45GAP the premier round.
I find the attitude of some .45ACP snobs, to border on arrogant in their choice of caliber. For them, I would find the above situation hilarious.

From my standpoint.

Frankly, I personally prefer calibers such as .357Sig, .357mag, and the .41mag. But, I would like to see, the .45GAP succeed. It gives us another choice/more options.

[wuchak]

To me the real advantage of the .45 GAP is that since it can be chambered in a 9mm grip frame many of the subcompact 9mm's could be offered in it. The lower pressure should make it less snappy than the .40 which would be a major advantage in a small gun.

I'm just waiting for George to make a .45 GAP Kel-Tec using the P-11 frame.

[stephpd]

I don't know much about guns but I thought the reason the 45gap was make was because Glock was unable to make a compact gun that could chamber a 45acp. The long slide and recoil would beat up the gun.
A few other manufacturers since then have been able to get a 45acp into a small gun. Even able to get a double stack into the grip and still fit a small hand. Taurus's first generation of the MilPro shows how hard it can be to achieve this. Cracked frames and all. But they kept trying and by the third gen they have a good working gun with little felt recoil.

Glock just seems to have taken the easier root and shortened the bullet.

Since the 45gap came into being, more companies have overcome the brute force that the 45acp impacts on the gun. Glock would have to give substantial discounts to get police and military to adopt this round.
The biggest problem I see with the 45gap is price and availability of the ammo.Few companies made guns for it until very recently.

I can see a use for the round in a subcompact BUG.10 rounds in a true pocket gun would be nice. Just no need for it in anything bigger.

[hotpig]

Glock made the 40 caliber popular by giving substantial discounts to LE. If they chose they could make the GAP the premier LE round within the next decade.

In order to keep the market share all manufacturers will have to make GAP guns and ammo just like they all made the 40.

My dealer cost for 45 caliber ammo is pretty much the same. It does not matter if it is standard, +P, or the GAP.

[Lovesbeer99]

From what I remember of the intro of the 45GAP was that it was truely competing with the 9mm and .40 double stack mag guns and that it was not truely intended to compete with the 45ACP.

If it does what it's intended to do, than I don't see what the problem is. No one will have to sell all there guns and buy all new 45GAP, but now we all have an additional option for out next new gun.

Also, and I don't mean to offend, but there are some out there who are snob 45ACP fans. To each his own but there are plenty of great rounds out there and some are better than others for target, hunting, defense, plinking etc.

[Noxx]

All I know about .45GAP is that it's a pain sorting it out of my .45ACP brass.

However this thread has piqued my interest, I think I'm going to do some more looking into it. Thanks for all the info.

[Walkalong]

This thread may outlast the .45 GAP. :evil:

[Harley Quinn]

I saw a barrel on Gunbroker that is a 45 GAP taken out of a Glock and up for auction, if anyone is interested.

:)

[Kevin108]

Why not just use .45acp?

The GAP Glocks have the same-sized frame as the Glock 17 so in most cases no additional training was required as the ergonomics and functions were all the same. Couple this with a larger, more effective round and you've got a winner.

[mavracer]

The GAP Glocks have the same-sized frame as the Glock 17 so in most cases no additional training was required as the ergonomics and functions were all the same. Couple this with a larger, more effective round and you've got a winner.
this is very true IF you like the ergonomics and mode of operation of a glock 17 and feel the need to have a .45. since I have short fat fingers a single stack 1911 fits my hand better.IMHO the .45 gap will never surplant the 45 ACP (way too many 20-40 year olds with the old fart mentality of It works don't fix it) also IMHO it does not offer much over a .40 in the way of a service cartrage for that matter there's not a lot of difference between all service calibers with good bullets. and once again IMHO the 45 gap's popularity has just about peaked, I also don't see it going away any time soon.

[ArchAngelCD]

No opinions on what I said in Post #53???

[Harley Quinn]

AACD,

I will mention I agree with you, the reasons for its popularity.
Is the vehicle (firearm) is readily there. FBI needed and the S&W 40 cal round seems to have fit their desires, all the rest rolled down hill to smaller depts, the Glock forty is well intrenched as of now. If it is not the Glock it is an S&W or a Sig. Here in CA. XD is doing its part also.

;)

[Quiet]

Is the 45 GAP really that much better than the 40 S&W? The PA State Police turned in their Beretta Model 96 for a Glock Model 37. IMO that isn't a good trade. If they were changing over to a 45 GAP from a 9mm Beretta 92 it would be a different story but there's nothing wrong with the 40 S&W.
The PA State Police was looking to replace their 14 year old Beretta Model 96D (.40S&W) and chose the Glock Model 37 (.45GAP).

PSP troopers seem to like the switch. Less felt recoil and improved accuracy over the Beretta.
Ammo capacity didn't change much, went from 11+1 of .40S&W to 10+1 of .45GAP.

www.forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1014753

[ArchAngelCD]

If they are replacing the handguns because of age that's a different story too but for the most part, a 14 year old Police Service Weapon isn't really 14 years old because they rarely shoot them. :uhoh:

[Harley Quinn]

If they are replacing the handguns because of age that's a different story too but for the most part, a 14 year old Police Service Weapon isn't really 14 years old because they rarely shoot them.

Some LEO shoot more than others, if kept up by the various locations that do that for the dept or like LAPD has its own trained to take care of the many they are now allowed to have.

Armories and the men that run them are good in the big depts the same can not be said for smaller ones I figure. The price now is pretty expensive for monthly or bi monthly, many do the once every quarter or tri year or even half year qualifing. Maybe even yearly...But most that are street coppers and face the bad guys shoot on their own and for good reason.

If they don't they are not going to win. Many don't it does seem based on some of the terrible shoot outs that have happened in past and will happen again in the future I am sorry to say.

If it is 45 GAP or 45 ACP or 40 cal S&W they are good rounds. But still the most popular is the 9mm and will be for quite some time I figure just because it is cheaper to get that ammo.
:)

[uncowboy]

The 45 GAP operates at just about 1/2 the pressure of the 40S&W . This makes the 45GAP more managable expecially in a smaller gun. LESS FELT RECOIL!I have shot speed events with the model 37GAP with factory ammo at a side event at GSSF and it is very manageable. A lot more than the 40S&W with Factory ammo. That is why it will EVENTUALLY replace most LE guns. IT is just plain easier to shoot! Glocks marketing was to let Dave Siv. Shoot it in USPSAand IDPA and Win HE DID. They should have marketed it to LE with jello tests and shooting demos. They didn't let the right market know about the guns. The dealers don't know the real scoop either. How many gun shops really give good advice? This rd won't go away and it shouldn't. The 40S&W in a sub compact is just brutal to shoot. The Gap in the same gun is manageable. The gun writers that pan the GAP are not much different than the ACP croud posting here. I love my 45ACP's and I just ordered another new one. I soon will be carrying a 45GAP and when I do I doubt that the ACP will get much carry use. Doesn't mean I no longer like the 45ACP I found a smaller package. J.Michael