Best gun based on least complaints and recommendations against?


January 9, 2003, 11:52 PM
ok, please please don't turn this into a 1911 vs glock debate..

But I was just wondering about taking the opposing view of which brand(s) are good guns based on the least NEGATIVE comments made about it.

It seems that Sig gets the nod quite a bit and I have not heard too many bad things about it's accuracy nor it's reliability; same with CZ's. Those are the only two off the top of my head that I can think of.. HK's for the most part; I think with HK's most of the complaint pertains to the ergonomics of it rather then quality of craftsmanship or accuracy and reliability..

Glocks and 1911's have been bashed enough..

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January 9, 2003, 11:56 PM
Hummm dont forget the Walther P99 in 9mm. Its accurate and reliable.

January 10, 2003, 12:06 AM
I don't know if I have ever read a negative post about a Makarov. Maybe it is the price and people are so pleasantly surprised that they overlook any small faults.

Rugers also seem to have many good posts. The only negative thing said is that they are a little on the ugly side, but in the same sentence will be the words utterly reliable.

January 10, 2003, 12:07 AM
Colt Woodsman
Smith mod 41

January 10, 2003, 12:17 AM
So, a double negative making a right...Don't hear to many negative things about HK's, SIGs, & Rugers.

January 10, 2003, 12:18 AM
I never hear anything bad about Sigs, although I don't think I'll ever get a DA/SA semiauto myself.

January 10, 2003, 01:57 AM
Sigs are really nice guns. For me it had good ergonomics, excellent reliability, and great accuracy. The only downside is here in Kali they can be quite a bit expensive. My P225 fits me like a glove.

January 10, 2003, 02:08 AM
It seems like SIG, CZ and Ruger get very little bad press from people online. That doesn't mean that they are the best only that they are not problematic.

January 10, 2003, 02:22 AM
One of the things I will say about Rugers; they are built TOUGH. I mean I looked at the recoil rod on a P series Ruger, wow! The thing is metal and thick! My Ruger Sp101... will digest anything and the lockup is incredible..

So, a double negative making a right. No.. a double negative making a "not wrong" :D

January 10, 2003, 06:20 AM
Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon, none of it's 24 owners have ever posted a complaint on TFL or THR, and thats gotta mean something...What I don't know:scrutiny:

January 10, 2003, 08:06 AM
Hmmmm, well since the complaints and recommendations against Glocks are unfounded, get a Glock!!!


Marko Kloos
January 10, 2003, 08:37 AM
I think SIG Sauer ranks up there as both a highly regarded brand, and one that has relatively few owner complaints against it.

Island Beretta
January 10, 2003, 08:55 AM
True, in thinking about it you hardly ever hear a Sig Sauer complaint!!! The only thing I ever heard was about rusting slides (which is a care issue for me) and frame cracks here and there..Most people seem happy with their Sigs!!

The BHP is one too where you hear many good and little bad about ..

For Glocks, Berettas, HKs, 1911s, S&W -I call these 'bash' or 'discussion' guns- they are all very good guns however!!

Kahr carrier
January 10, 2003, 09:11 AM
Havent heard anything bad about Valtros.

Sean Smith
January 10, 2003, 09:12 AM
Everything has complaints. Wilsons and Baers have complaints. Even *good* pistolsmiths get a complaint every once in a while, if only from fluke part failures and so forth. Internet forums distort how significant those complaints are (or aren't) in the bigger picture. Heck, I haven't heard a complaint about a Jennings in *ages*, but that doesn't mean it is better.

From what I've seen, you find very few owner complaints about SigSauers, HKs, CZs, pre-Series II Kimbers, the newest Colts (!), S&W revolvers, Ruger revolvers, or commercial Beretta 9x series guns on gun forums. I could complain about the M9s the Army issued me all day, but that's a whole other topic. :evil:

Glocks don't have alot of functional complaints, but their popularity makes them controversial, and subjectively alot of people really dislike them.

Everyone says Ruger semi-autos are a good value, but nobody seems to want one. They are ugly and have bad triggers, but so do most "modern" semi-autos anyway. So I dunno. :D

I've never heard much in the way of negativity about S&W 10xx series guns or Performance Center/"Tactical" semi-autos either, now that I think about it. Sigmas, on the other hand, are almost universally reviled.

January 10, 2003, 10:00 AM
Well of course I am going to say SIG, geez what did you expect.:neener:

Actually the one that suprises me is the Springfield XD. Everybody an their brother slammed the HS2000, except myself and a few others, but as soon as Springfield slaps their name on it and ratchets up the price a couple a hundred bucks everybody loves it.

I really never seem to here anything bad about the XD series of pistols, and through my experience they are excellent pistols every bit as good as Glock and much more ergonomic with a much much better trigger.


January 10, 2003, 03:04 PM
I think you will find very few complaints on the newer Kahr models. At least this is what I found when I was doing my homework. So I bought a tiny MK9 elite and so far has been absolutely perfect. Kahr had some growing pains in the very beginning of their manufacturing and when the polymer models were 1st introduced. You still hear an occasional negative about ammo feeding of certain brands of JHP ammo in the Poly models. I couldn't find one negative on any of the newer stainless models other than wgt for its size and most folks have great things to say about the poly's too. I would just becareful if purchasing a used kahr as to when it was manufactured.

My Kimber stainless target II has been near flawless as well in about 1200 rnds. Didn't even have a hicup during breakin other than a faulty mag which Kimber replaced w/in 2 days. I use Wison 47D mags exclusively in it now to be safe. I had one fte and that was it. As hard as I tried, I couldn't get the series II parts to fail even w/the lightest of grips. I would carry this gun if my state would permit me to.

The CZ 85 Combat I have hasn't been perfect but pretty darn close and a great shooter. The CZ 75/85 series has been known to have slide stop issues on some of their guns which mine has a hicup occasionally. In all fairness, I have never really dealt w/the problem and I hear that once it's resolved it'll be gone for good. CZ factory springs are considered even by Mike at CZ to be under spec. I replaced my recoil spring w/14# wolff and mag springs w/the +10% from wolff. Well worth the effort as this is my favorite gun to shoot. Double action has a long reach but decent pull. Single action trigger is fantastic. FWIW my friend has a CZ 75B mil that has been 100% reliable. Shooting his gun is what prompted my purchase.

Any other guns out there I can't really give good advice because I haven't owned them. I hear very good things about Ruger reliability but not as fun to shoot as others. Sig & HK have great reputations as do many other makes.

January 10, 2003, 03:53 PM
Ruger .22 autos. . .


January 10, 2003, 04:27 PM
Boy that's right!

It seems from I have read hear and on TFL, Sigs, Rugers, Browning/FN HI Powers, CZ's, the Walther P99's, the Beretta 92's and the XD series from Springfield get very little bad press!

The Sig's, BHP's Rugers and CZ's seem to stand out most to me in this regard.

Oh, and those darned Makarov's and Bersa's seem to do well too.


January 10, 2003, 05:13 PM
Other than their size, there aren't too many complains about the Ruger P series.

And for a relatively old design the BHP is a stand-out.

January 10, 2003, 05:22 PM
CZ. Not just problem-free, error-free. Accurate, reliable, durable.

Navy joe
January 10, 2003, 05:34 PM
I think this is a little too similar to selecting a significant other based on what all your buddies who have been involved with the potential SO think. You have to try it personally to see how things go for you.

January 10, 2003, 08:19 PM
I remember at the range, the guy there complained about how he loved the Glocks much better then the Sigs, and how he Sigs just "didn't hold up" had a cracked frame..

Upon asking how many rounds the Sig's digested; he said "I'm venturing to guess, well into the 100,000+, we've had it for about 8 years.." :rolleyes: When you realize how much THAT costs in ammo alone, and how little they clean their guns, one can only hope that all my guns make it to 100K rounds..

Sigs are great, my only complaint, $$$.

I do love the browning HP's though; first semi-auto I shot...

January 10, 2003, 10:08 PM
It seems that SIG, Ruger and CZ get a lot of nods for accuracy and reliability in threads like these.

Now take those three and compare price.

January 10, 2003, 10:29 PM
Glock or Sig - most commonly issued LEO handguns for a reason!!!

January 11, 2003, 12:43 AM
"...Glock or Sig - most commonly issued LEO handguns for a reason!!"

True...the reason is politics and good LEO sales contracts. They are good guns but most of the things that happen in government have little to do w/quality. This is a whole monstrous thread topic of its own so I'll leave out all the m9 discussion and the like.

January 11, 2003, 01:16 AM
I don't remember hearing many complaints against the Browning High Power. Tough, accurate dependable weapon and if cloning is a form of flattery, then the BHP has to be right up there with the best!!! :D

January 11, 2003, 03:10 PM
Common great guns...Ruger, Sig, Beretta, HK, Glock, Browning, SA, Colt, Kimber, FN, Walther, Taurus, Kahr...etc etc....
Uncommon great guns....CZ, Daewoo, Bersa, Bernadelli, FEG, Arcus, Astra, Star, EAA, Sphinx, Phoenix...etc etc.
I know of many examples of each brand that is well over 2-5K rnds and has a perfect record.......Many good companies make great guns. They also have had teething problems with some new models/improvements at times........
Guns to stay away from Jennins, Lorcin, Davis, Accu-Tek...etc, etc.
Some middle of the road guns....AMT and the like.......
Shoot well

July 30, 2008, 09:16 PM
The SIG 232, is small, well balanced, good looking but not for real use.
Too many little springs jump on you when you try to clean it and if you attempt to change the grips more springs jump loose. Furthermore the return spring is hard, clear indication that sacrifices had to me made on the Weight of the slider. The free floating hammer is a nice safety feature, but try clean or servicing it-and look out for the pesky little disappearing steel pesky springs

July 30, 2008, 09:48 PM
The only complaint ever muttered about Browning Hi Powers is that some people get hammer bite, which is solved easily.

July 30, 2008, 09:53 PM
I don't know if I have ever read a negative post about a Makarov.
Meh, I've seen some with issues before. Usually safety related. Sights pretty much have to be replaced.


Navy joe
July 30, 2008, 10:07 PM
January 9th, 2003, 11:52 PM It's alive!!!

July 30, 2008, 11:12 PM
I never have heard many bad things about bersa 380 pistols, even though I prefer a larger caliber. Sig's P226 never has many negatives except for grip size for some people.

July 30, 2008, 11:36 PM
No gun is perfect, and even 'perfect' manufacturers put out a turkey now and again.

That said, my personal experience tells me that S&W 3rd Generation pistols, particularly the 9mm models, are boringly reliable and acceptably accurate.

My CZ85 was an a amazing pistol - a better High Power than the original Hi Power. Tough, accurate and outstanding ergonomics. Only one or two reliability hiccups in the break-in period. Beyond that it was 100%. I regret selling it and I'm still looking for a stainless steel CZ75.

Every Glock I've owned or shot has been 100% reliable and amazingly accurate from round #1. Yes, from round #1 - I'm not exaggerating. Say what you want about Glocks, but there is no arguing they are an outstanding design and are very well executed.

1911s? My Springfield Full Size Loaded is an amazing gun for the money. I don't shoot it as much as I should, but it has exhibited outstanding accuracy and ergonomics. My only reliability hiccups stemmed from bad magazines. Switching to Wilson Combat 8-rounders cured all the problems.

Other pistols that get honorable mention -

Bersa Thunder 380. Boy, the Argentinians got this one right, right from the start.

S&W Model 10 .38 cal revolver. Boring, boring, boring. Reliable, reliable, reliable.

July 31, 2008, 01:59 AM
R.O.F.L. 2003

I.D.K. because Sig seems to gets alot of hate on the boards now. And it's ironic because it actually comes from Sig-fans who are anti new production. I'd say C.Z. has one of the highest praise:complaint ratios, overall. The only complaint I ever hear about H.K. is that they're overpriced. But if you throw out cost, I'd say H.K. is up there.

July 31, 2008, 08:52 AM
I reckon I'm going to get a bit of flack here, but what about Hi Point? I've got one and I love it. not picky about ammo, and it's more accurate than me. I've not had a malfunction. Ever.

Semms like the people who own them like them a lot, and the peoople who don't own them are skeptical.

I do acknowlege they had quality problems when they first cranked up--but I think they['re solved.

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