Suitable carry for bicycling [Archive]

tackleberi

November 12, 2007, 09:52 AM

I'm not sure if the Seecamp LWS32 is Mass. compliant, but back when I was a bicycle commuter (9K miles/year, per my odometer), I carried the Seecamp in a "Amphipod" waistpak (as opposed to a jersey pocket). The nice thing about the Amphipod was that the waiststrap AND pouch itself were a bit stretchy, so when you transitioned between in the saddle/out of saddle pedaling, the gun/pouch went with you, no chafing/rubbing/undue movement.

The stainless construction of the Seecamp helped with the sweat. The Amphipod is also washable, so that helps too.

I also used a scandium J-frame (S&W 340) in this role for a while, but it only weighed 1 oz. less, and was harder to tuck away on my person. The smaller dimensions of the Seecamp gave me more options to conceal.

Based on your requirement #5, I'm not sure if the .32ACP will do the job, perhaps the revolver might be better in regards to this. Per requirement #6, if the Amphipod is out of the question, either gun might work in a wallet holster (like a Palehorse Scorpion or Safepacker), but that's pushing the limits of comfort/concealability in the jersey pocket. In any case, I'd keep a close eye on corrosion of "small parts" on a gun in such close contact to a sweaty, exercising person; in this regard, the Seecamp can be taken completely down/inspected/put back together much more easily (IMHO) than the revolver could.

HTH; since I used the "bike commuting" argument to convince my wife I "needed" a Seecamp, I'm trying to use the "Honda Ridgeline commuting" argument to convince her I need a new 1911.......not working yet.

Shawnee

November 12, 2007, 10:40 AM

Hey Guys...

Wow! I feel kinda antiquated here. Not being critical - just trying to understand.

The thought of having to "carry" while cycling is (for me, a non-cyclist) a notable surprise. Am (sincerely) curious about why you have decided to "carry" while cycling. ?????

Thanks!

earplug

November 12, 2007, 11:00 AM

I used to carry A J Frame S&W Model 38 in my strong side jersey pocket. Had a leather holster, would use a plastic one now.
Thought about some sort of front under the jersey carry that would work like a binocular holder that some hunters use.

19-3Ben

November 12, 2007, 11:08 AM

Heh. Better to ask here than on Bikeforums.net. Every time the topic of guns comes up over there, people freak!!!
Anyway, I have been thinking the same thing as I ride 75-100 miles per week and would like to carry while on the bike. so far I have been carrying my Ruger SP101 in a fanny pack, but I feel like a total ass-clown doing so, and it is not exactly the quickest way to draw. I've thought about a gun in the jersey pockets, but that too would make for a slower and more awkward draw than I would prefer while pulling 20MPH on my Specialized.
I think I have settled on the thought of a Kel-TecPF-9. it is the perfect size to either fit in the jerey pocket, or fit in the waistband of the lycra shorts. The mere tension of the lycra would hold it in place, and I don't think it would be visible with my jersey draped down over it, especially not while I'm moving quickly.

Shawnee- I live in a beautiful and generally safe area. Nothing happens here. It's right outside New Haven CT. But this summer a doctor's house was broken into, and his family tortured to death about 5 miles form my house. S*it happens, and I'd rather be armed and able to deal with it, than at the mercy of bad guys. Even while on m bike.

Jerry Morris

November 12, 2007, 11:21 AM

Shawnee; Ever ride a $5,000 bike? They are out there, even more than that price is available! Also, some people seem to think bikes have no business on the roads. They are classed as vehicles and entitled to road use in most states. But, some idiots think they can push around bikers, or even run them down. Some thugs are batty enough to think bikers are push-overs to mug. The biker world ain't too much different from the rest of the world.

Bikers are citizens, too. Why should they not be entitled to the same defenses as other folks? They are just trying to get from one place to another. Maybe for kicks, maybe to get to work. Not much different than hopping into your cage, or me hopping onto my Harley. I still bomb the pedals, now and again. It sort of smoothes out the kinks the modern hustle gives you.

Jerry

tackleberi

November 12, 2007, 11:29 AM

Why carry on a bike? Because if you ride long enough, eventually you'll get harassed, etc. by someone who believes you 1) should be on the sidewalk, or 2) look goofy/wimpy in your bike clothes. Biking is no different than any other concealed carry situation; since you can never 'schedule' the instance in which you might need your CCW (and heaven forbid you ever need to), it's better to not need it/have it than to need it/not have it. As a dedicated CCW'er, and someone who has taken upon the obligation to myself and family to make it home everynight, I NEVER leave the house without a CCW, running and biking included. Someone else's risk tolerance may differ....doesn't mean either opinion is wrong, as long as each party can live with their decision.

I'm not espousing shooting people who simply harass you on your bike....but as fellow bike commuters will concur, bike riders do tend to draw a certain amount of attention, and hopefully you never come across the carload of morons who want to pull over and go beyond simple words. I do know that, even at 200+pounds and a great deal of ground fighting experience, I'm at a considerable disadvantage after dismounting from my bike (probably after trying to avoid the aggressors), out of breath, and wearing slippery-soled cleated bike shoes. I would have to count on my Seecamp to overcome that disadvantage. This is what Mas Ayoob refers to as "critical error in the victim selection process".

I, too, live right up the road from the unfortunate home invasion/torture/triple homicide referenced by Mr. 19-3. While a bit removed from the biking scenario, his reference to the situation is apt.....this family was chosen at random by the cold-blooded killers who selected them while hunting for victims in a supermarket parking lot, followed them home, and spent the whole night raping, torturing, and killing the mother and two daughters (who were burned to death tied to their beds). Random is random.....whether you're on a bike, in your home, or just picking out ingredients for tonights dinner.

Ride safe.

MCgunner

November 12, 2007, 11:36 AM

I've never considered a 5K dollar bike that didn't have a motor in it. Last bicycle I bought was about a hundred bucks at Walmart. I figure the heavier and harder to pedal the bike is, the less you'll have to ride it for an equal workout, if that's what you're after. Frankly, I don't expect a 5K bicycle would impress most people other than other bicycle types, if you're out to impress anyone. I guess if you have a 20 mile commute to work every morning, an expensive bicycle would be better, but I'd rather just thumb the starter button, LOL!

You can run into the same hassles on a motorcycle that you describe on a bicycle and ever since it first happened to me at age 16 (guys in a pickup tried to run me down) I have been armed on the motorcycle, well before anyone ever suggested a CCW law and when it was illegal in Texas to transport a handgun unless it was locked in a trunk.

Not such a big problem anymore, motorcycles are everywhere and doctors and lawyers are faux hell's angles on the weekends. The movie "Wild Hogs" wasn't far off base. But, in the late 60s, you were a target to every redneck in Texas if you rode a motorcycle. So, I know the problem even though I'm too old and lazy to pedal anymore. LOL

PointOneSeven

November 12, 2007, 03:05 PM

I vote for mounting a semi-auto shotgun to the frame.

But in all seriousness, one of those pocket autos in .32 or .22lr would be a good choice. I wouldn't be all over either of them for windshield shots or car doors, but side windows shouldn't be a problem.

bcp

November 12, 2007, 03:15 PM

Several years ago someone wrote that after they started carrying their slung AR-15 while biking motorists gave them a wide berth.

Bruce

22luvr

November 12, 2007, 03:35 PM

My son is also a long-distance cyclist who does a 60 mile round-trip commute to his office 2-3 times a week here in south metro Atlanta. His problem is not so much the 2 footed variety of predator but the FOUR-legged variety.

He rides through some tough-looking neighborhoods and a favorite pet is all manner of pit bulls, staffordshire terriers, rotweilers, junkyard dogs, etc.

I told him to get an NAA mini revolver in 22 mag and stoke it with shot shells. A good load of shot in and around the snout of one of these dogs should slow it down or stop it enough to ride away safely.

bltmonty

November 12, 2007, 03:37 PM

I have been carrying on my road and mountain bike for years. I ride competitively on very nice bikes and have seen lots of situations on the road and mountain that remind me why I carry.

After much trial and error, I have ended up carrying either a Kel-tec p11 or a Makarov in a Camelbak rogue hydration pack. I carry the gun in the slot designated for the short bike pump. It permits quick access. I won't carry in my jersey because of sweat and the problems of crashes, and the fanny pack does not balance the weight well.

For this situation, I actually prefer the Makarov in 9x18 because I can get ballistics from it that are fairly close to what I can get from the shorter barrel Kel-tec 9mm, but I can shoot the makarov much much better, and it has been much more reliable for me. The mak is quite flat too.

I have been in the past what bicyclists call a "weight weenie," someone so concerned about weight that I get anxious about every ounce. At one time, I carried the Kel Tec .380 but was concerned about its accuracy and power. I am less concerned now about weight. However, I am thinking about a Kahr P40 or CW40 instead of the p11 or makarov because they are a bit lighter.

Phydeaux642

November 12, 2007, 03:44 PM

The thought of having to "carry" while cycling is (for me, a non-cyclist) a notable surprise. Am (sincerely) curious about why you have decided to "carry" while cycling. ?????

I have had more trouble when riding a bicycle than at any other time that I am out in public. Many people feel that it is their right and obligation to mess with you while you ride. There have been cyclists in my area that have had tools thrown at them and even hit with a baseball bat while riding.

When I ride, I carry a S&W 642 in a Smartcarry holster. I wear sweats when I ride, so, that holster works well for me. It may not work as well for someone that wears lycra.

_________________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

The Bushmaster

November 12, 2007, 03:53 PM

One of the small framed .357 magnums by S&W, Ruger or Taurus and Rossi. Using any of the name brand 125 grain SJHPs or JHPs. If recoil ends up to being just too much you can go to .38 Special ammunition for the same gun...It's very hard to set a modern revolver of even if it gets dropped from a bicycle on to asphault...

cyclist

November 12, 2007, 04:29 PM

Just one option:
http://www.nordicgroup.us/s78/images/NA-FRB2.gif

and another option:
http://www.adventurecycling.org/store/images/BAR-BAG--Red_sml.jpg

Nobody will even suspect:
http://www.bicycletouring101.com/getimage.php?w=295&o=no&i=JerryHandlebarbag.jpg

glockman19

November 12, 2007, 04:50 PM

S&W J frame. I would choose a 642 or 442 or 640

lee n. field

November 12, 2007, 05:34 PM

2) Must be available in Massachusetts

Mass has a list, don't they, of acceptable handguns? Got a link to that?

Micro Glock or Springfield XD subcompact. Smith snubbie or equivalent from Ruger or Taurus.

The thought of having to "carry" while cycling is (for me, a non-cyclist) a notable surprise. Am (sincerely) curious about why you have decided to "carry" while cycling. ?????

Dogs, for one.

Back in the day, back when I road a lot more than I do now, there were a few situations involving either dogs or, more likely, fools in cars, where it would have been nice to have that option if it came to that.

Alton

November 12, 2007, 06:13 PM

Dear Bill [ the doctor ]

I carry my Kel-tec P3-AT when I ride my bike on the road or trails.
When I ride I have cargo shorts with the pocket on the side of the leg to keep my gun in. I would not tkink of riding with out my 380 on the road and Im glad your going to.
Bill if you are like me I sweet alot when I ride and my gun gets all wet.I all so ride in the rain and my gun gets all wet.But I never get any rust on my gun becouse I put Johnson Paste Wax { floor wax } on the inside and outside of my P3-AT. I put the wax on the Inside and it will protect the meltal parts from rusting.
Hope I help you out.
Rob

the_doctor

November 12, 2007, 06:32 PM

Wow! I feel kinda antiquated here. Not being critical - just trying to understand.
The thought of having to "carry" while cycling is (for me, a non-cyclist) a notable surprise. Am (sincerely) curious about why you have decided to "carry" while cycling. ?????

I am not feeling the love! I don't know why someone would really ask me this question.

Consider this. I ride an expensive bicycle. It cost me approximately $1200. I no longer accessorize. My old bicycle cost me more money in replacement parts for upgrading. I am riding along on a vehicle that costs a substantial amount of money to some people(myself included). This vehicle can also been perceived as a 8,000$ or more bicycle by the general public.

I know many people that carry their weapon in the car as they are worried about being carjacked. I know people whose cars COST less than my bicycle.

However, my real concern is the threat of bicycle haters.

I have ridden down the road and had ITEMS thrown at me. Do you think that could lead into something? I am lucky that coat hangers and other stuff such as apples have not killed me. No one had attempted to digest any morsel of that apple btw.

We had people in the club ride that became targets of verbal threats from people passing by.

Here is an example of something that happened to a friend recently that yelled out "car right" as a car pulls to the edge of the road at a McDonalds. The car pulls out in front of us like we are not there. It does a u turn and the guy comes back threatening to kick our butts.

Two weeks ago I had two women walking a dog unleashed that yelled at me for bothering their dog. I was riding up the hill when the dog went running down the hill at me. I was twenty feet away from them when their dog left them for the playful attack against me. This was a minor incident, but ever worry about a big dog that is trying to hurt you?

The seacamp is interesting and it is apparently on the EOPS list. I do not know if it is approved by the AG(which is the other list). Pistols have to be on both lists. I am going to review over the other replies, too.

Thanks
Bill

kd7nqb

November 12, 2007, 06:33 PM

Yet another situation where the tiny Kel-Tec P3AT is a great option. However if your pocket is pig enough step up to the PF9 or PF-11. Not sure about the Mass. Question.

TimboKhan

November 12, 2007, 07:09 PM

Somebody needs to let Cosmoline know about this thread. He is very familiar with biking and carrying firearms. Very, very familiar.

the_doctor

November 12, 2007, 07:21 PM

Ok.

I am unclear regarding the Seacamp 32ACP. It could be approved on the EOPS list and not be approved by the AG.

Everything in Massachusetts after 1998 has to be approved by the AG and the EOPS. There are two separate lists from the AG office. The AG created a second list for target pistols, but the one gun on that list is not on the EOPS list.

NAA and Keltecs are not allowed. The KelTec P3-AT was looking very interesting in addition to the Seacamp. I am not clear on the Seacamp, yet.

BTW Taurus is not allowed in Massachusetts, either. I have noticed its' line is very popular in mentions.

bill

340PD

November 12, 2007, 07:22 PM

In Minnesota we had a bicycleist killed while on a evening ride this summer. Jumbed a few miles from his home. Carry is a good idea.
The S&W 340 series has .357 power if needed with very light weight. It is a handfull with .357 but 38 sp. +P loads are no problem. Great firearm. I would forget the rear pocket carry. My jerseys will not let me get anything out of them without a struggle. Get some sort of frame mounted pack. Good luck.

MrBorland

November 12, 2007, 07:27 PM

I have ridden down the road and had ITEMS thrown at me. Do you think that could lead into something? I am lucky that coat hangers and other stuff such as apples have not killed me. No one had attempted to digest any morsel of that apple btw.

We had people in the club ride that became targets of verbal threats from people passing by.

Here is an example of something that happened to a friend recently that yelled out "car right" as a car pulls to the edge of the road at a McDonalds. The car pulls out in front of us like we are not there. It does a u turn and the guy comes back threatening to kick our butts.

Two weeks ago I had two women walking a dog unleashed that yelled at me for bothering their dog. I was riding up the hill when the dog went running down the hill at me. I was twenty feet away from them when their dog left them for the playful attack against me. This was a minor incident, but ever worry about a big dog that is trying to hurt you?

Well, Doc, I started riding competitively in 1980, and I still ride competitively. I log in 15-20 hours and 250-300 miles a week during the season. I have 3 bikes, each costing at least $5k, and no one's been the slightest bit interested in stealing my bike while I'm riding. I commute to work. I put lights on my bike and ride in the dark. All that you describe happens to me and other cyclists routinely, yet, despite this, I don't know of a single instance where I felt I or any other cyclist "needed" a firearm.

A decision to carry while riding is a personal one and yours to make. I don't know your circumstances, so it's not my place to judge, but keep in mind that the rules for defending yourself apply to a cyclist with a gun as much as anyone else with a gun. I understand your concern that getting stuff thrown at you or getting run off the road or chased by a dog might lead to a grave thread to your life, but in my experience, unless the cyclist allows the situation to escalate by flipping them off or getting of their bike and engaging them, the motorist simply wants you out of the way or is having some perverse fun at your expense. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, you might even have gotten hit by an object, or even crashed when they ran you off the road, but once it's over, it's over. Don't let it escalte beyond that. And even when it's not "over", they just want to give you a piece of their mind. Ignore them. Do not look at them. Do not speak to them. Do not stop and get off the bike and engage them.

And dogs? Ignore them, too. I ride in the country here in the south, and yup, we have dogs. Lots of 'em. They're just interested in the chase. I can't even recall the last time I really and truly felt in danger when a dog chases me. 90% of the time, I don't even speed up. It's kinda funny to see their face when they realize you're not sprinting away - a kinda "aw crap, now what?" look. And if you do feel in danger, a blast of water from your bottle in their face usually stops them in their tracks, at least for a little while.

FWIW, I do carry a canister of pepper spray in my rear jersey, right next to my Gu's. Thankfully, I've never had to even reach for it.

10-Ring

November 12, 2007, 08:37 PM

I used to carry either my Beretta 950 or my S&W j frame when I rode my street or my mountain bikes

kayl

November 12, 2007, 11:10 PM

Search for the camelbak goblin; it's gotten good reviews from a couple xdtalk members :)

Captain Bligh

November 13, 2007, 08:03 AM

I carry a S & W Model 60 in a fanny pack. Fanny pack doesn't look so out of place on a bike.

I am totally against off body carry on the bicycle. I would never carry in a frame or handlebar mounted bag. If someone knocks you off your bike, you are separated from you gun. In my opinion, it defeats the purpse of carry and leaves you vulnerable. YMMV

jeepmor

November 13, 2007, 09:37 AM

I used to hit agressive dogs with my Zefal bicycle pump. It's one of the long models that mounted between the frame. It would extend as I swung it and give a nice little love tap to fido as I kicked my cadence up.

Settled a couple moving disputes with dogs in that fashion and recommend this method before a boomstick for obvious reasons. If this doesn't work, boom stick away. If you go the shot shell route, realize these are made for many autos, but they do not cycle the action.

I really like the bag options that cyclist illustrated. The frame pack close to the seat is ideal in my experience.

I rode extensively in my college years, but I never carried a gun. I always figured I could outrun any trouble or hop the curb and escape any yahoos in cars since I was in a fairly rural community at that time.

I don't care how or why you want to carry, I'm just happy that you take personal responsibility for your own safety. Kudos man, good luck in your selection. I'd start with a Kel Tec or the like. Light guns, heavy triggers, should be very safe should you bite it at 20mph. I remember that feeling, I have a few scars to remind me.

cyclist

November 13, 2007, 10:28 AM

I was thinking of the carry bags due to crash issues, it isn't fun to fall on a gun. I ride motorcycles too and this type of discussion comes up often enough. Hopefully one will have enough notice before resorting to displaying the firearm becomes necessary. The bike mounted bag helps to contain the firearm in the event of a crash or if the need to jump a ditch or curb comes up.

I'm thinking that the Camelback option might be best if one is concerned about bike-jackings. Not sure how accessible the gun compartment is on them though, I's have to see on in person first. Hmmm, wonder if I could get one on order through REI-Coop....
Clerk: "We have all these other options, why do you want to order this particular model?"
Me: "I want to keep my GPS unit both secure, out of sight, and easy to get to quickly if I need it right away."
Clerk: "We have handlebar mounts for the GPS unit."
Me: "Part of my ride is in a bad neighborhood and I'd rather the bad guys not see anything expensive worth stealing."
Clerk: "Oh."

Another possible plus of the Camelback option is when in a NPE where some might frown upon what is concealed inside. Hmmm, off to do a little shopping I think.

mekender

November 13, 2007, 11:14 AM

pistol grip 12ga laid across the handlebars? or a holster for one mounted on the frame cowboy style?

jefnvk

November 13, 2007, 11:14 AM

I often have a PPK in the upper chest pockets of a rather tight softshell fleece jacket, not uncomfortable and prints like a wallet or notepad. I'd imagien it would work in your back pocket.

Don't know how much I would count on it going through glass, but it'll punch through sheet metal real good.

mekender

November 13, 2007, 11:57 AM

ppk will go through glass just fine, ive tested it... it will deflect depending on the angle, so say you are shooting at a car front window, youll have to aim about 3-6 inches high to hit your mark

middlechainringguy

November 13, 2007, 07:05 PM

So what's the pedal-power equivalent of our foot-based brothers' and sisters' IDPA and ISPC? Anyone in Central Texas up for joining me in setting up a concealed carry biathlon? ARC has land and berms and nice roads nearby, and so does Karl at KR Training ... seems like we could make this happen.

I'm a roadie and would probably need to borrow someone's mountain bike. A really high-zoot one, please. But in a generous community like this, I figure that shouldn't be a problem.

--middlechainringguy

woad_yurt

November 13, 2007, 07:32 PM

To those who wondered why anyone would want to be armed when they ride:
A long time back, when I was out riding a bike and some freak in a car going 50-60 mph threw a beer bottle at me. It smashed almost to dust on my handlebars. Another time, I got pelted with french fries full of ketchup from another passing car. I understand why the guy wants a gun with him.

joshk-k

November 13, 2007, 08:07 PM

"Hey Guys...
Wow! I feel kinda antiquated here. Not being critical - just trying to understand.
The thought of having to "carry" while cycling is (for me, a non-cyclist) a notable surprise. Am (sincerely) curious about why you have decided to "carry" while cycling. ?????"

Many people, myself included, commute by bike. I happen to live in one of the most bike-friendly cities in the country, but still get hassled a lot.

If it makes sense to you for people to keep a gun in their car or on their person, then it should make sense to you why someone might want one on a bike.

I don't have a CCL and my workplace is "weapon-free" so it's a moot point for me, but I choose a 30-inch length of sturdy chain as part of my locking system and keep it readily available (draped over my neck) when mounted in case I need a weapon.

Josh

markmc753

November 13, 2007, 08:18 PM

Back in the 80's I raced road bikes and logged about 10k miles/yr. I learned to take the tact of just ignoring the jerks who yell, throw stuff etc... they mostly just go away. I only had one instance of a fellow insisting on a confrontation -- though not as popular on newer models car as the use to be, if found that a car's antenna is a very effective defensive weapon.

Now days most of my riding is off road and confrontations have been nil

OpFlash

November 13, 2007, 08:22 PM

Kel-Tec PF-9 in a belly band.

I went mountain biking with the above setup and took a rather nasty spill. I didn't even think about the gun until I had climbed back on and pedaled a good distance away, luckily it was still there snug as a bug in a rug. It weighs so little it doesn't have much inertia so it moves with you.

I'm real impressed with the PF-9. After some early teething issues, they have been shipping very reliable examples since around the beginning of 2007. I got mine about 3 months ago and it has been 100% with about 300 rounds down the pipe. It is similar to the old P11 but lighter, thinner, and with a much lighter trigger.

Belly bands are underrated IMHO. They don't require a belt, allow you to carry IWB at 3:00 and are much quicker on the draw than a Smartcarry. They also retain quite well because they utilize not only the tension of the band itself but also whatever is holding your pants up, i.e. belt, shorts string tie, etc. I can run in shorts (no belt) with my PF-9 in a belly band with no retention strap and be confident the pistol is not moving around or in danger of coming out.

MrBorland

November 13, 2007, 10:37 PM

some freak in a car going 50-60 mph threw a beer bottle at me. It smashed almost to dust on my handlebars. Another time, I got pelted with french fries full of ketchup from another passing car.

...and how would carrying a firearm have prevented this? Did the knuckleheads come back and threaten your life? Unless you did your part to escalate the situation, very likely they didn't, which is the point I and markmc753 were trying to make. You couldn't have prevented the incident, and once the bottle shattered or the ketchup splattered, the incident was over.

If a rider can honestly say they have a reasonable idea that their life may be threatened on a ride, I'd say sure, go ahead and carry, but so far, I haven't seen anything on this thread that constitutes anything more than the usual harassment that all cyclists normally recieve. And in my 27 years of cycling, I learned that if you leave your ego at home before you go out for a ride, this "usual harassment" doesn't turn into much more than just that.

I was fortunate to have started riding in an area where a lot of pros lived and I rode & learned from them. In retrospect, one of the best pieces of advice they ever gave was "Just shut up & ride".

And btw, these raise my eyebrows:

Ever ride a $5,000 bike? They are out there, even more than that price is available!

Consider this. I ride an expensive bicycle. It cost me approximately $1200. I no longer accessorize. My old bicycle cost me more money in replacement parts for upgrading. I am riding along on a vehicle that costs a substantial amount of money to some people(myself included). This vehicle can also been perceived as a 8,000$ or more bicycle by the general public.

I know many people that carry their weapon in the car as they are worried about being carjacked. I know people whose cars COST less than my bicycle.

Are you saying you'd feel justified in shooting anyone trying to steal your bike?! Any bike can be replaced. Write the serial # down. Get your insurance to cover it if it's stolen. Or if you're that worried about it, don't ride it.

jefnvk

November 13, 2007, 10:46 PM

If a rider can honestly say they have a reasonable idea that their life may be threatened on a ride, I'd say sure, go ahead and carry, but so far, I haven't seen anything on this thread that constitutes anything more than the usual harassment that all cyclists normally recieve

And only those that have threats against them or restraining orders on stalkers, or off duty police, should be able carry a gun in public, if you ask me.

woad_yurt

November 13, 2007, 11:00 PM

MrBorland:
Just because the idiots who threw stuff at me rode away doesn't lessen the desire or need to defend myself if I have to do so. A carry piece is there to protect one's self against miscreants, and miscreants can pop up anywhere. Why would one go through the trouble of getting a permit, a gun and ammo, only to leave it home when one is on a bicycle? I think people get accosted out of their homes more often than in. Should we not have a gun handy in the house? If something goes wrong, the victim of assault or robbery or whatever doesn't get to choose where or when it will happen. What's the point of having a gun if you don't have it handy? People carry them in their car and no one here says that's crazy. It is called a carry permit for a reason, so one can carry.

To paraphrase you:
Would you feel justified in shooting anyone trying to steal your car?! Any car can be replaced. Write the serial # down. Get your insurance to cover it if it's stolen. Or if you're that worried about it, don't drive it.

That's your reasoning, not mine. I totally disagree with you.

Kevinch

November 13, 2007, 11:01 PM

I used to ride a good bit - although all recreational. Still have my Rockhopper (with an upgrade to an original Judy suspension fork that I installed myself :cool: ) and a Specialized Epic.

Anyway, I sold a Taurus .38 snubnose & used the funds to help with the purchase of a Colt Mustang Pocketlite to carry when I rode my bicycle. I thought that little .380ACP was just about ideal in that application. Hard to find now for any reasonable amount, a Keltec without 1 in the chute (you mentioned concern about jarring a striker-fired pistol) might be your best bet.

yesit'sloaded

November 13, 2007, 11:03 PM

I just have to post it. http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/uploaded_images/Military-prepares-for-possible-cutbacks---bicycle-+-wagon-783785.jpg

MrBorland

November 13, 2007, 11:17 PM

Would you feel justified in shooting anyone trying to steal your car?! Any car can be replaced. Write the serial # down. Get your insurance to cover it if it's stolen. Or if you're that worried about it, don't drive it.

They can have it. No car and no bike is worth a life. If they threaten my life in the process of trying to get it though, that's another matter.

Regarding carrying while you ride, re-read my posts - if you feel the need, then do it. It's simply been my experience that harassment is common, but has never led to anything more and I've never felt the need to carry myself. YMMV.

Vonderek

November 13, 2007, 11:38 PM

MrBorland,
I'm not much of a bicyclist but I've been driving a car for 30 years and have never been in fear for my life so I guess there's no need for me to have a gun in my car. Heck, I've been a pedestrian for 40+ years and haven't been assaulted yet so I may as well throw away my CCW and get rid of my guns...guess I'll never need 'em!

Phydeaux642

November 16, 2007, 11:06 PM

Well, Doc, I started riding competitively in 1980, and I still ride competitively. I log in 15-20 hours and 250-300 miles a week during the season. I have 3 bikes, each costing at least $5k, and no one's been the slightest bit interested in stealing my bike while I'm riding. I commute to work. I put lights on my bike and ride in the dark. All that you describe happens to me and other cyclists routinely, yet, despite this, I don't know of a single instance where I felt I or any other cyclist "needed" a firearm.

A decision to carry while riding is a personal one and yours to make. I don't know your circumstances, so it's not my place to judge, but keep in mind that the rules for defending yourself apply to a cyclist with a gun as much as anyone else with a gun. I understand your concern that getting stuff thrown at you or getting run off the road or chased by a dog might lead to a grave thread to your life, but in my experience, unless the cyclist allows the situation to escalate by flipping them off or getting of their bike and engaging them, the motorist simply wants you out of the way or is having some perverse fun at your expense. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, you might even have gotten hit by an object, or even crashed when they ran you off the road, but once it's over, it's over. Don't let it escalte beyond that. And even when it's not "over", they just want to give you a piece of their mind. Ignore them. Do not look at them. Do not speak to them. Do not stop and get off the bike and engage them.

I've been riding for quite some time myself. In the not so distant past I averaged 900-1000 miles per month commuting because I made a decision to use my bike as my main source of transportation. Dogs have never really bothered me as far as being a threat. Most of them are just curious and loose interest quickly. I have had to use mace one time for a dog and it worked very well. I have only had one dog chase me that I felt was dangerous (running at me without barking, ears back and tail straight), however, I was able to outrun it. People, however, are another matter.

I have had someone in a car cross over into my lane forcing me into the ditch. Then the driver took his car into the ditch coming straight for me. I stopped, then he stopped. I had no idea what to expect out of him at this point. After what seemed like a very long time he drove away and I continued on my way. This was at 5:30 am.
I have had a car full of drunk guys try to chase me down for some unkown reason. They actually did a u-turn to come after me, but I rode into the shadows of a side street and they missed me. I did nothing to escalate the situation either time, but they both kept coming.
I have more stories but my point is that people that act in this manner are generally not stable and you really never know how a situation will play out. I never want to be in a situation where I feel threatened enough to draw a weapon because that means I am in fear for my life. I won't, on the other hand, be caught with my pants down hoping that that situation doesn't arise. The two incidents mentioned above could have played out very differently and that is why I now carry my 642 with me when I ride. I desperately hope that I never need it.

_______________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

Rexster

November 16, 2007, 11:42 PM

Mocean makes bicycle shorts and wind pants, for the police bike patrol market, that have belt loops. The Wilderness makes a product called the Safepacker, which, to put it simply, is a squared-off flap holster. The Safepacker can be carried while riding, either in shoulder bag mode on a strap, or in belt-pouch mode on a belt. Before the anti-carry ninnyhammers chime in, no, the Safepacker does not "scream gun" at all; I have carried mine many times to such bastions of grass-eaters as Whole Foods Market and the Galleria Mall in Houston.

Rexster

November 16, 2007, 11:53 PM

BTW, I do not carry while cycling because I think cycling is dangerous, I carry while cycling because I carry anytime when I am out and about. Well, OK, I also carry because I am a peace officer and sworn to be subject to duty at all times, but the first reason is most important.

marley

November 18, 2007, 12:19 PM

For the reasons listed above a g-26 in a fanny pack always goes with me. It is light, it is a " real " gun, and it will work. YMMV Ride safe

luckyrxc

November 18, 2007, 04:20 PM

Long time lurker here, first time post. Thank you for this thread as I too struggle with carrying while riding.

My greatest concern has been how to carry safely. Statistically, I have a much greater chance of being in a bicycle or motorcycle crash than I do of needing to access my pistol. I know several people who have been significantly injured by items carried in their pockets when they have crashed. Falling on cameras and tools have fractured ribs.
While on the motorcycle the best I've found so far is to put my Jframe in the tank bag.
I've thought about holstering my j frame in a chest pack mounted to my chest protector while dual sport riding. I don't think this will help you on your bicycle.

bcp

November 18, 2007, 05:50 PM

"One mountain bike rider is dead and another is in serious condition after two separate mountain lion attacks Thursday, January 8, in Lake Forest, California."

http://www.bikemag.com/news/mntlion/

Bruce

Cosmoline

November 18, 2007, 06:23 PM

Why carry on a bicycle? Same reasons you'd carry anytime.

I log in 15-20 hours and 250-300 miles a week during the season. I have 3 bikes, each costing at least $5k, and no one's been the slightest bit interested in stealing my bike while I'm riding. I commute to work. I put lights on my bike and ride in the dark. All that you describe happens to me and other cyclists routinely, yet, despite this, I don't know of a single instance where I felt I or any other cyclist "needed" a firearm.

I'm happy for you, but I'm a bike rider, not a cyclist. I don't ride in groups, I don't shave my legs and I don't have any bike worth over a grand. I ride in all seasons through all weather. I ride through some pretty tough neighborhoods where murders are far from unusual and 1,500 lb. beasts from the rough end of the pleistocene still roam free. So yes I carry.

Regarding carrying while you ride, re-read my posts - if you feel the need, then do it. It's simply been my experience that harassment is common, but has never led to anything more and I've never felt the need to carry myself. YMMV.

So may yours, and if you ever find yourself in such a situation you're going to be up creek. Do you oppose CCW in general, and if not why do you make a distinction for the bike?

Personally, I prefer a jacket pocket for carrying as it keeps the revolver out of my way. But barring that I'd use a shoulder rig. I wouldn't want it too close to my hips or legs as those are "moving parts" so to speak when cycling. I keep the big .44 in my rack bag as backup. I'd like to carry it, but the Bisley-Vaquero is simply too bulky and my experiments with more compact .44's have not worked too well for cycling. I move too much and a firearm that big carries like a brick. I am working on a concealed chest holster but it's in the beta stages.

I even use my bike to transport rifles to the range. Nothing like a Schmidt-Rubin long rifle to keep motorists in their place '-)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/Swiss3.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz1IdG928ns

sdj

November 18, 2007, 08:30 PM

I used to ride a great deal, but have moved away from it: just too much insensitivity out there; too many folks in a rush; too many close calls. :eek:

Good thread; be safe.

" The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon,
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers,
For this, for everything, we are out of tune;
It moves us not.--Great God! I'd rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathed horn."

-Wordsworth

19-3Ben

November 18, 2007, 08:57 PM

ooohhhhh....Cosmoline, that looks like a Books saddle....nice. very nice. A brooks saddle, and a Swiss rifle. You are a man of great taste if ever there was one.

TOADMAN

November 18, 2007, 09:32 PM

I am with the Cosmoline crowd on this one and definitely conceal carry while biking.. Ride a mountain bike for fitness/fun and wear the baggy mountain bike pants.. Old men in tight spandex pants, not a pretty picture.. Usually ride alone four or five times a week lasting 2 hours+ per ride... Go everywhere to include paved road, gravel road and off road thru woodsy trails, sometimes covering thirty miles.. Almost always see unsavory looking characters while on a ride; mostly walking the wooded trails. That is why I conceal carry while biking. Usually wear a Glock 26 or a S&W 642 belt holstered OWB like I normally would any other time while out and about in warm weather...In-addition to the baggy shorts, a baggy un-tucked shirt over the handgun. No worries.. BTW, I always take a cell phone...

Matt King

November 19, 2007, 02:05 AM

Cosmoline: Is that a Brooks saddle on your bike?

sinistr

November 19, 2007, 06:29 AM

didn't read through all the posts,but heres my.02 from some one that rides with weapon.if your training and dressed as such, go with smartcarry or second , bellyband.please no fannypacks:D

cyclist

November 19, 2007, 10:30 AM

posted Jan. 9, 2004

The bikemag cougar attack was from 2004.

I've been run off the road cycling, and motorcycling. I've had someone stop in front of me while I was cycling and get out of their car and threaten me and try to intimidate me into riding on the sidewalk "where I belonged" (which was actually against the law for an adult to bicycle on the sidewalk), I've had stuff thrown at me, even had some punks throw a chunk of truck tire at me coming from the opposite direction which bounced off the front of the bike apparently because they thought it was funny (and apparently they were the kids of some local favored person because the police stopped being motivated to do anything about their attack once they found out who the parents were {I figured those punks would eventually mess with the wrong person one day}), and in all that time I haven't had a situation yet where I'd felt the need to dent a primer but have had a few incidences where I'd have been much more comfortable (or if carrying where I did feel more comfortable) if I'd been carrying.

Just found an outdoor range a few miles from home, going to have to dig out the scabbard and test fit in on the BOB trailer. Test rides around town might be a little interesting. :D

KBintheSLC

November 19, 2007, 07:10 PM

I am nervous about even considering striker semi-automatics because of bumps

On the contrary... I commute on a bike sometimes too, and a DAO striker-fired semi auto would be the first thing I would recommend for this purpose. A Glock or Khar or even a Kel-Tec will not fire if it is dropped. Thats what the point of this design is... to be safe with one in the pipe.

Cosmoline

November 19, 2007, 07:11 PM

Cosmoline: Is that a Brooks saddle on your bike?

Yup. I converted a while back. I've got the B-17 for my winter mountain bike and the B-66 for my summer cruiser pictured above.

They can have my Brooks when they pry it from my cold dead... ah never mind.

the_doctor

November 20, 2007, 02:02 PM

I've been run off the road cycling, and motorcycling. I've had someone stop in front of me while I was cycling and get out of their car and threaten me and try to intimidate me into riding on the sidewalk "where I belonged" (which was actually against the law for

I ride all year long. I typically ride through some areas that considered "black" in the licensing scheme in Massachusetts. These towns and cities usually deny LTC to their residents and have high crime rates. I also ride through the nice areas.

In the group rides I try to keep everyone mellow and have things roll off their back. I have lead a whole bunch of regular recurring rides this year. Last year a fellow got all of excited because a pedestrian walked in front of him. The pedestrian decided that the bicyclist would stop and just walked out in front of him. Actually, the walker was legally right. The Bicyclist has a duty to stop. However, no one was hurt but I don't think it was very prudent. I wouldn't do that type of thing with a car coming.

Anyways, the bicyclist got upset. I tried to calm him down. Too many of the guys have bad experiences where they are wronged and they get excited all of the time, now. You go through these sedate towns and black towns, where people throw things at you. I've mentioned this previously. However, these incidents where people come back to "visit" you, seem to indicate possibilities of severe things happening. It is good to be prepared.

I have reconsidered carrying on my person as the accident issue is very true.

I am not sure how legal it is in PR of Massachusetts of carrying loaded in a bag attached to the frame.

Bill

luckyrxc

November 20, 2007, 05:01 PM

+1 :)

ooohhhhh....Cosmoline, that looks like a Books saddle....nice. very nice. A brooks saddle, and a Swiss rifle. You are a man of great taste if ever there was one.
__________________
Member:
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JPFO

Cosmoline

November 20, 2007, 05:06 PM

Last year a fellow got all of excited because a pedestrian walked in front of him. The pedestrian decided that the bicyclist would stop and just walked out in front of him. Actually, the walker was legally right. The Bicyclist has a duty to stop.

Ever notice how in the old scenes from Asian cities the pedestrians just walked out in front of the stream of bikes? There's a trick to it few Amercians know. I learned it in Little Hanoi (Eugene Or) The pedestrian walks as normal and the cyclist approaches and aims for the spot right behind them. By the time the bike gets there the bike slides right on through. Repeat as needed and there's never a crash. The problem comes when the pedestrian or cyclist wig out and try to second guess each other.

19-3Ben

November 21, 2007, 02:09 PM

Now Cosmoline- if you are out there riding on the "raggedy edge of the verse", what happens when Reavers try to cross the street in front of you? Do they tend to keep walking, wig out, or rape you to death and eat you?

the_doctor

December 2, 2007, 09:34 PM

BTW Kids threatened bicyclists with a BB gun in Worcester during this week as well.

Bicyclist assaulted near Brookline T stop
Email|Print| Text size – +
November 28, 07 09:09 AM

By Globe Staff

Brookline police are searching today for four teenagers who used a wooden two-by-four to assault a young man on a bicycle near the Longwood T stop Monday night.

The victim was riding a bicycle on the Longwood footbridge at 6:20 p.m. when, he told police, he saw three black teenagers wearing baggy jeans and dark sweatshirts standing in his path. One of the teens had a goatee and weighed 150 to 175 pounds.

A heavyset Asian teenager jumped out of some bushes and hit the bicyclist from behind with the two-by-four. The Asian teenager weighed about 185 pounds and was wearing baggy jeans and a blue bandana, police said.

The victim fell to the ground and was repeatedly kicked and punched by all four assailants before they fled on foot toward the Fenway area, police said.