[TheLastBoyScout]

There was this one I ran into shooting at a range in Francis Marion Nat'l Forest last year... he went all out--khaki military creased shirt, brown well creased pants, and an official looking baseball cap (that was actually the giveaway--although the crest looked believable enough to an out of stater, I kind of doubt the SC Game wardens wear baseball caps with "So and So Rod and Gun Club" on them):neener:

Anyway, these two old farts took offense that me and my teammates had the gall to bring our black rifles, shoot from positions, and wear our BDUs (our school has a strict uniform policy--you always leave campus in uniform unless you're leaving on furlough, and obviously cammies are the best suited uniform for shooting).

They basically proceeded to ruin our range trip--proceeding to get uncomfortably close while taking digital pictures of our nametapes, faces and weapons, and photographing us as we were firing, as they threatened to report us to everyone from the local PD to the Commandant.

We wrapped up early (1 magazine or so after a 30mile each way drive) because people (including my girlfriend, 2nd time at the range, great PR there old guys) were too uncomfortable to shoot there. We also never got any consequences from that incident.

Probably had something to do with our moderator (a retired Army fullbird colonel) reporting people impersonating LEOs before they could get their own BS in:cool:

For the record, our "offenses" were as follows:

1) You military folks aren't allowed to be here on the weekends, thats civilian time to shoot. (Try to get leave from a military college for a midweek range trip... better yet, try to do anything regarding weapons in a military setting with cadet ID:rolleyes:)

2) Proning out on the firing line and firing into targets properly sited on the backstop is "unsafe shooting"

3) So is sitting.

4) And standing.

5) Leaving steel cases around is littering (while you can barely walk without stepping on spent cases some days)


Anyway, thats MOST of why I hate old guys who interfere with other peoples' shooting so much.

[jefnvk]

5) Leaving steel cases around is littering

I don't care how many cases are on the range, I'll always pick mine up.

Wile I don't agree with pissing people off, gotta not be uncomfortable just telling people to screw off. All you did was to tell them that they are free to intimidate anyone that comes in.

[AZ_Rebel]

Anyway, thats MOST of why I hate old guys who interfere with other peoples' shooting so much.

While I regret that you had an unpleasant experience, I believe that this "rant" against "old guys" is unwarranted and against the spirit of THR. I hope the Moderators agree.

[ClickClickD'oh]

Huh. Well, the annoying busybody at the range is almost always a retired age individual for me, so I know where his rant is coming from.

Who cares though. If you aren't doing anything wrong all the guy can do is whine. Rifle reports are always louder than jabber. Carry on.

[308win]

Ignoring people like this is always a good strategy; they often step over the line which has consequences.

[REOIV]

I just ignore them, or tell them to kindly go the F*** away if they keep bothering me.

Unless they are a range master, owner of the range or law enforcement I could not care less what they are thinking or saying.

Course I think that about most people so old farts at the range are low on the list. Though usually I end up helping people with their guns, jams etc and end up talking about what they are shooting/going to hunt and what animals etc we've seen out and about.

[JohnBT]

"Probably had something to do with our moderator (a retired Army fullbird colonel) reporting people impersonating LEOs before they could get their own BS in"

A moderator? You lost me. Are you on a debate team or something? :confused:

John

P.S. - Ear plugs and muffs do wonders for tuning out bothersome folks.

[TheLastBoyScout]

IPSC/IDPA Team... moderator= liason with school admin/commandant's office and the required "adult supervision" to be a school sanctioned activity.

[Ed Wagner]

Had a similar experience a few years ago, firing a .45 handgun and a 12 Ga. shotgun at a local range using techniques Mandated by the Dept. I worked for. I was at the end of the range, 8 lanes away from anyone else, Never went beyond the firing line but switched weapons as was required for our upcoming quals, ( at the same range ). Older gentleman ( I am 54 ) firing a 22 handgun at paper (11 lanes away ) was going to " take me into custody " for " Didorderly and Dangerous Conduct ". He began to stutter and sweat when I showed him my ID,( Deputy Sheriff ). He left the range with great haste.

[Hokkmike]

If you represent the Citadel Tactical Shooting team then I would hope that you have learned, first to respect other, and especially "older", shooters. I assume that this range has clearly posted rules and that you were, in fact, following them. In this case I would politely ignore anybody in your face. As you represent something larger than yourself it would be excellent PR to pick up as many spent casing as possible, even if not required.

[foghornl]

"Show me your SC 'Game-N-Fish'*** Department ID RIGHT NOW! ! !"

Works well just about anywhere the 'wannabees' show up.

***Sorry, don't remember the correct department name for SC right now....Some states have names such as Game-n-Fish, Dept. Natural Resources, Fish-N- Wildlife, etc.

[igpoobah]

Alright, I give up. What is a WCO?

[ZeSpectre]

Wildlife conservation officer

[bluestarlizzard]

"While I regret that you had an unpleasant experience, I believe that this "rant" against "old guys" is unwarranted and against the spirit of THR. I hope the Moderators agree."

i hate to say this, but being that half the spray and pray thread is busting on young shooters, it would not be fair to have this shut down without shuting that thread down as well.
point is diffrent generations annoy one another on a regular basis, and its not fair if the younger generations can't complain if the older generation is complaining.
besides i think the point here is someone impersonating a government official.

[Snipe315]

Has Patrick Swayze said...

"Be polite. Until it's time to not be."

I don't give a rats a$$ if its an old guy or young punk. If they bother me at the range for no reason they are:

1. Extremely stupid to mess with a person firing or handling a loaded weapon.

2. Too stupid to mind their own business.

3. About to earn a world of hurt if they don't piss off.

:cuss:

If I was acting like an idiot or some noob bonehead, I'd understand someone asking me what the heck I was doing. They really should go to the range personal first to complain but I'd understand taking the bull by the horns so to speak.

If I'm following all range and safety rules (which I always do) then these idiots should LEAVE ME ALONE.

People (young and old) too often bring their pre-conceived notions and prejudices with them to the range.

:fire:

[armedandsafe]

You attend a military school. You were in mandated uniform. You are training for military service.

"Sir, I am going to protect your right to say what you are saying and act as you are acting. If that bothers you, perhaps you should take it up with the authors of the Constitution for the United States."

Yes, I AM an old fart. Old enough to have been taught manners.

Pops

[WildcatRegi]

I'm an old fart if you don't mind; I've earned every day of it.:D

May you be so lucky as to enjoy the firearm sports long enough to become an old fart, of course then you'll probably be complaining about the young-uns who disrespect you.:rolleyes:

[RPCVYemen]

1. Extremely stupid to mess with a person firing or handling a loaded weapon...
3. About to earn a world of hurt if they don't piss off.


To my mind, not a good attitude to have while in possession of a lethal weapon. Are you going to deliver a "world of hurt" because of the what someone says to you?

If you think that a legal and ethical use of firearms is to control how other people speak to you, maybe you need to dig a little deeper.

Mike

[RPCVYemen]

There was this one I ran into shooting at a range in Francis Marion Nat'l Forest last year..., I kind of doubt the SC Game wardens wear baseball caps with "So and So Rod and Gun Club" on them)

Actually, you may be wrong here.

While the SC Game Wardens may not wear that kind of hat, there are public facilities (in North Carolina) that are administered by local gun clubs. I think that there is a National Guard range in Butner operated on weekends by a local gun club. I know it is true in NC for at least two city/county municipal ranges I shoot at. The Outer Banks Gun Club administers a public range near Manns Harbor, and some offshoot of the Sir Walter Gun Club operates "public hours" at the Wake County range.

In some cases, the gun club is paid to administer the range, in other cases, I think the local gun club actually rents the range. They are both vehicles to permit these kinds of facilities to be open to the public. Note that - at least when I have shot at these "public but administered by a private club" facilities, the club gets to set the safety rules.

Are you 100% sure that you did not stumble into that kind of arrangement? Could the guys who you ran into have actually been doing their job?

It seems like a local club administering a range is a more likely situation than a some guys just deciding to dress up as "fake WCOs". Did the range have a name?

If it was a local club who was actually doing what the were supposed to be doing, it seems like you owe someone an apology. :) If so, I hope you do the right thing - we don't want to lose access to these facilities.

Mike

[mpmarty]

This old fart was born in January 1939 and I still enjoy spray and pray as I chase bowling pins up the hillside with my AK. I don't do this at the public range where I'm a range officer. There is a time and a place for everything, and the time and place to keep your fat lip buttoned is at the range when the folks around you are not causing any danger and are not disrupting other shooters.:banghead:

[Crimp]

I don't typically join bitching threads,
(deleted)
and I guess I won't join this one either...

[ilbob]

maybe I am more tolerant then others but i don't have it in my heart to be rude to old timers.

that does not mean i will let them hassle me, but there is a polite way to point out the folly of their ways, if indeed there is a folly.

[Average Joe]

give the old farts a break, it took a lifetime to get there.

[BobMcG]

I don't give a rats a$$ if its an old guy or young punk. If they bother me at the range for no reason they are:

1. Extremely stupid to mess with a person firing or handling a loaded weapon.

2. Too stupid to mind their own business.

3. About to earn a world of hurt if they don't piss off.

Wow. You may not realize it but you come off as a quite a hot head or at least someone with a chip on their shoulder. Try one of these...

[TheLastBoyScout]

Mike:

Given that local LE/ DNR personnel were VERY interested in these two men (i.e. "they may have good intentions, but they sound like they are on the wrong side of the law re:impersonating officers"), I doubt they were there legitimately.

Besides that, I've used that range 2-3 times a semester for the past 2 years (typically during high-traffic hours as those are the only times I get leave) and only ever saw them there once.


Yes, policing up my spent cases would be good PR (which I guess makes it worth doing on its own), but at that range one is ahead of the curve by retrieving whatever it was you were shooting at and putting it in the trash when you're done. Picking up brass for cleanliness purposes there seems kind of like trying to pee on a forest fire... My bad.

[Grizzly Adams]

I'm glad that I got interrupted in my original reply and you had a chance to post #25. It changes what I have to say considerably. No one, whether young or old should think they have a monopoly on knowledge and these two if they are doing as you say should be held accountable. There is something to be learned from the "old farts" if it is presented properly. The same can be said about the young. I don't know if it is because you are PO'ed about what happened of if it is your true attitude coming through, but it appears you may have a problem with older people and authority. And I am old fart!!

Snipe315: comments like "About to earn a world of hurt if they don't piss off." only tends to inflame the issue and shows immaturity.

[10 Ring Tao]

Crotchety old white guys are the single greatest internal threat to the continuation of our hobby. They seem to exist to chase away new shooters, or at least anyone who isn't over 35 years old with a beer gut, and prevent any fun from being had.

News flash guys:

If something isn't fun, people don't participate, and it doesn't survive. Plain and simple.

[hksw]

bThey basically proceeded to ruin our range trip--proceeding to get uncomfortably close while taking digital pictures of our nametapes, faces and weapons, and photographing us as we were firing, as they threatened to report us to everyone from the local PD to the Commandant.


IMO, I would go back there and do the same thing. When threatened with being reported to the police for no offenses, I would kindly hand them my phone and in a polite manner ask them to do so.

[TheLastBoyScout]

For the record, my team and I were operating completely within the posted rules of that range. The serious posted rule we were accused of breaking was "Fire only from the firing line into the backstop". Sitting on the line is still "on the line" for that purpose--the rule was written to make sure all the bullets went the same place, it says nothing about using the benches. About 1/3 of the line doesn't even have benches anyway. Firing 'off the line' carries a several hundred dollar fine if you're caught, and such an accusation might have been enough to scuttle my team if the wrong admin people saw it.

I don't have a problem with legitimate authority.

People who wear uniforms they don't rate, to give the impression they are something they are not, while invading my personal space, harassing my girlfriend, my teammates and myself... Yeah, they piss me off.

People trying to get me in trouble with my chain of command or the law for firearms related offenses... you better believe I have a problem with them.

If they had complained about the position shooting in a civil fashion as private citizens, I would have explained in a civil fashion--it's hard to accurately fire an AK from a bench with a fullsize magazine.

If they had complained about the casings in a civil fashion as private citizens... I would have policed'em up.

Trying to give the impression of authority you have no claim to while invading personal space and threatening to call the cops on people behaving legally is not a strategy that I'd imagine works on many people, young or old.

[wideym]

Some old timers think only hunting guns are ok for civilian use, my grandfather was one. He hunted mainly quail and some deer in his younger days. He had a 20guage Remington Mohawk and a sporterized 1903 bolt gun. I like military style rifles and when he saw my AR-15 told me nobody needed an assualt rifle that served no purpose. He even said my rifle was full auto when he heard me rapid firing on semiauto.

My grandfather was a WWII vetern, Ex-POW, and a well respected member of our community. But he did not care for "assault weapons" and would not care less if they were banned. I got the impression his friends were the same way and all were over 65, most 75-80. I loved my grandpa and tried to pattern my like after his except about gun ownership and always voting Democrat.

[Robert Hairless]

Let's not be too hard on those who are angry at old farts. There is solid evidence that many men become stupid, irrational, and offensive somewhere after the onset of puberty, turn into absolute dolts when they turn twenty-one, and are morons at some later stage in their lives.

Studies suggest that this phenomenon is linked to bad parenting, or "permissive parents" as they are commonly known. Those studies are trustworthy because they were done by fifteen-year-olds who, never having respected their own parents, have keen insight into other people who are their seniors.

[Wheeler44]

I like to use moments like the OP described as a good time to teach my son how to shoot under pressure.

[Titan6]

Too bad you did not have a camera as well. Photos all around I say.

[Robert Hairless]

Crotchety old white guys are the single greatest internal threat to the continuation of our hobby.

Shouldn't we get rid of all crotchety old people regardless of race and sex? Old people are irritating and seem to think they know everything.

Can we divide up their guns and ammo once we get rid of them? Those crotchety old guys are the people who gave us the hobby we want to continue, and since they were around long before we were born they have some really nifty guns. Let's club them, take their guns away, and force them to get out of town. Those crotchety old people even think that they built and paid for the ranges we use. Get out.

Who could stand crotchety old white guys. Who do they think they are. Anyway? We need to stop giving birth to them and raising them and sending them to schools. They need to get to work and support us so we can continue our hobby.

[Strings]

>Shouldn't we get rid of all crotchety old people regardless of race and sex?<

Yep... everybody renews at 30, or gets wacked*.

Oops... I'm 35, better get to runnin' before the Sandmen catch me!

Honestly, some of the stupidest words I've heard spoken at the range have come from older folks. Stupidest actions belong to the younger set...


*points to anyone who can name the movie

[jeepmor]

It disappoints me that gun owners don't find common ground considering how many factions there are that would like to see us without them.

[Ala Dan]

I agree with my friend AZ Rebel, as I'm an "Old Fart" myself~! ;)

Sounds like your range company did not do anything to warrant all the
flak that these guys seemed too be dishing out. Taking pic's could mean
they were just trying to learn something from you guys~! :cool: :D

[Robert Hairless]

Sorry, Strings. Since you're over 25 you're interfering with the continuation of our hobby. Get out. But leave your guns and ammo behind, and don't forget to donate your money to our support. It's your duty.

10 Ring Tao: An early happy birthday to you. You're obviously crotchety too and since you'll be 30 in a few years you need to start giving some thought about how not to turn from a crotchety young guy into a crotchety old guy.

Jeepmore: ;)

[BlackBearME]

Let's not be too hard on those who are angry at old farts. There is solid evidence that many men become stupid, irrational, and offensive somewhere after the onset of puberty, turn into absolute dolts when they turn twenty-one, and are morons at some later stage in their lives.

Studies suggest that this phenomenon is linked to bad parenting, or "permissive parents" as they are commonly known. Those studies are trustworthy because they were done by fifteen-year-olds who, never having respected their own parents, have keen insight into other people who are their seniors.

You know, I usually read threads without taking particular note of the author of a reply. It's funny that I can always get halfway through a reply, and sense the cynicism virtually oozing through the screen. It's at this point that, right before I shift my eyes to the left, I think to myself "this must be Robert Hairless" And I'm almost always right :neener:

(No offense intended, Robert Hairless, when you're serious you are worth heeding, and when you're cynical it makes me smile)

But on topic, I agree with the OP. Of course, him saying
thats MOST of why I hate old guys who interfere with other peoples' shooting

doesn't imply he hates old guys per se, but old guys who interfere with him. And I can't blame him. I dislike anyone who - illegitimately and in an uncivilized manner - interferes with my shooting. Or anything, for that matter.

[Powderman]

I've had Fudds attempt to get after me--for wearing my sidearm out in the open, with my badge prominently displayed beside it, ON A RANGE.

So, how do you deal with people like that?

In a few sequential sentences.

When they are obviously going to approach you, cut them off: "Hi. Can I help you?"

When they rant about what you're doing: "Are you a Range Safety Officer/owner/manager of this range (private range/land)? Are we breaking a range rule/regulation?"

If they even HINT or give an appearance by their dress or speech that would lead a reasonable person to believe that they are a law enforcement officer in ANY capacity: "Are you a law enforcement officer/police officer/state trooper/deputy sheriff (etc.)?"

If they give ANY answer to the affirmative: "May I see your badge and commissioning card/credentials?"

If they do NOT produce any, call 911 ASAP. Report them for impersonating a police officer. Get their license number and get a complete description as well.

Or, you can use the express method...
(Them)
"Hey! You! You shouldn't be..."

(You)
"Do you own this range? Are you a police officer? If not, piss off and leave me alone."

:evil:

[Kaeto]

Yep... everybody renews at 30, or gets wacked*.

Oops... I'm 35, better get to runnin' before the Sandmen catch me!

Honestly, some of the stupidest words I've heard spoken at the range have come from older folks. Stupidest actions belong to the younger set...


*points to anyone who can name the movie

Try making it harder next time...Runner! The movie is Logans Run.

[Grizzly Adams]

BoyScout, let me ask a couple of questions:

1) Did you address this with the SC authorities before posting on THR?

2) Did you bring it to the attention of your Commandant?

This in my opinion should have been your approach to this problem. With all the testosterone that flows on these forums, I would have tried to resolve this issue before posting and if the problem could have been resolved forget about it. If not then I would air it so everyone would know about it. The "old fart" "young guy" thing is just a side issue. Wrong is wrong regardless of age! I apologize if I offended you in my earlier post. I should have waited until I had read some of your other posts to get a better understanding of all that happened and where you were coming from!

Buel

[jwxspoon]

I've shot at this particular range myself... you never know what you'll get there, sometimes a good group of guys and sometimes some not so nice.

jw

[SaMx]

I'm a younger guy and I try to be respectful to my elders, but I have had to deal with old farts who think they can be rude and tell me what to do just because I'm younger. I'm thinking of one incident at a public range, shooting a friends ar-15.

"you can't shoot that here, it's an assault rifle."
It's a legal rifle and it's legal to shoot here.

"You can't shoot from standing, you have to shoot from the bench."
there is no rule against shooting from standing, I'm shooting in a safe manner, behind the firing line right next to the bench.

"You're shooting to fast, you have to leave"
There is no rule against rapid fire, I'm not shooting very fast (maybe one shot every two seconds) all my shots are hitting the target, I'm being safe.

So yeah, I've experienced similar things, and the OP's reaction is warranted. The problem isn't old guys who ask you to do things, the problem is old guys who think they can make you stop doing things that are entirely within your rights (safely shoot an ar-15 at a public range) because they don't like it.

[bogie]

My club doesn't allow "spray and pray." It tears heck out of the target stands (which cost ME money, as a dues-paying member). We also have rules which stipulate that all actions must be open when not in uses (if not holstered). If I see someone with a closed action, I _will_ correct them.

We're cool with position shooting, etc., etc., but all muzzles MUST be pointed at the berms at all times. MUST. We had someone let one go a while back, which resulted in a $200 assessment PER MEMBER to raise the berm height. So I don't want to see people shooting at the ground (and bouncing rounds) or playing cowboy...

[TheLastBoyScout]

Grizzly Adams:

I dealt with it through proper channels when it occurred. I have been back and forth to that range several times since then, with no further issues. The discussion re: young guys sprayin' and prayin' just brought it back up, where I realized I'd never posted about it here.

[Robert Hairless]

You know, I usually read threads without taking particular note of the author of a reply. It's funny that I can always get halfway through a reply, and sense the cynicism virtually oozing through the screen. It's at this point that, right before I shift my eyes to the left, I think to myself "this must be Robert Hairless" And I'm almost always right

(No offense intended, Robert Hairless, when you're serious you are worth heeding, and when you're cynical it makes me smile)

At last I have a groupie, and one who is both a linguist and a philosopher! You've been a forum member for not quite a month yet but you show great promise. There's no telling what you'll accomplish once you learn what the word cynicism means and the difference between cynicism and Cynicism. I'm sure that you mean the latter ("one of a sect of Greek philosophers, 4th century b.c., who advocated the doctrines that virtue is the only good, that the essence of virtue is self-control, and that surrender to any external influence is beneath human dignity") which is flattering. The word cynicism ("a person who believes that only selfishness motivates human actions and who disbelieves in or minimizes selfless acts or disinterested points of view") can't possibly apply to my work, not even when I'm parodying, burlesquing, or doing humoresque.

So get a few more likeminded people and let's talk about your starting a formal fan club. (Think t-shirts. You'll be the envy of all the other kids in your neighborhood and the girls will love you--until it's your turn to become an old fart.)

I am always serious. I know you think that the original poster "doesn't imply he hates old guys per se, but old guys who interfere with him," but that's not what he said and it's not what anyone else thinks he said--not even you. You're just funning me. The original poster didn't say that he dislikes "anyone who - illegitimately and in an uncivilized manner - interferes with" his shooting. He specified that it was "two old farts." They weren't even just "old guys" or "old people" but "old farts". (Phew. Stinky old guys.)

Everyone is in tune with his statement. As one paintball orientalist has noted, "Crotchety old white guys are the single greatest internal threat to the continuation of our hobby." That's not a racist comment because "white guys" doesn't refer to anyone's race, only to their skin color, so what he must mean are the "crotchety old guys" who paint their faces white and run around the ranges ruining the sport of placid, stable, and even tempered young guys. I haven't seen any of those face painting crotchety old guys but I'm sure going to be on the lookout for them now because they shouldn't be ruining your hobby. You probably invented it as long ago as, say, 15 years ago or as far back as 1981, in the Dark Ages before there was the glory and wonder of you.

But let's get off that theoretical level. All those crotchety old white guys are running around ruining your hobby. I've tried to suggest that we focus on the practical implications. Those crotchety old white guys--ancients of 34 years and more--just aren't as smart or tough as younger guys who created the world when they were born, or shortly thereafter. So let's focus on the practical: we can jump them, take their goods, and split up their guns and ammo. We don't have to stop there, though. At least some of this forum's moderators are over the hill too, and at least a couple of them seem kind of crotchety as well (closing threads and pushing people around and all that) so we can jump them and take away the forum. The future belongs to us! Keep in mind that we have to leave any crotchety old black guys and all crotchety old women alone, though, unless they're transsexuals and we catch them while they're in a male iteration.

Let's not get bogged down in details at the beginning of this great venture. It gets so awfully confusing once we pay attention to the meanings of the words we use. Just keep in mind that before you run the crotchety old guys (otherwise known as the "old farts") off your ranges--the ones you've built yourself or paid for with your taxes--get their goods. Then throw them off and tell them never to return. If you need to finance your participation in this operation, ask your mommies and daddies for the money.


And don't forget the fan club and the T-shirts.

[bluestarlizzard]

but robert,
what about those of us in the "young" range (early 20's) hearing about those "young punks"? isn't that the exsactly the same as "old farts"?
for the record, i don't have an issue with either term as long as both can be used freely or BOTH are not allowed. both terms insult a group of people based on age.

[Red Dragon]

Wow, Mr Hairless.

I feel I must applaud your rather impressive skill in the art of sarcasm. I must say, it was quite an entertaining read. I do so hope one day to reach the impressive level to which you have achieved.
:D

[The Deer Hunter]

I haven't gotten a lot of the "crotchety old white guys" hassling me, its usually the 20 somethin, mall ninja wanna be that thinks he knows everything. Now it doesn't happen very often, but its not pleasant no matter what.


but it appears you may have a problem with older people and authority. And I am old fart!!

It appears that he is some sort of military type school of some sort, so I would have to imagine he puts up with a good amount of authority... And while I'm genuinely aware that there are 2 sides to every story, it sounds like the thread started was harassed for no reason at all.

Sorry you had a crappy time.

[ArfinGreebly]

:D

Y'all do lighten a man's afternoon.

Absurdity amplification.

An art form seldom mastered.

If you ever find yourself up this way, come on over and I'll introduce you to the Old Farts' Rod and Gun Club.

They have a range that was constructed using money appropriated from piggy banks purloined from teens and twenty-somethings. We occasionally allow aspiring farts to visit the range, in anticipation of their achievement of oldness.

We even reminisce about those bygone years when we actually knew everything and were cool. Sorry, kewl.

It's hard, getting old and losing the "cool" and "with it" parts of our personalities.

Especially when all that replaces it is this "wisdom" stuff.

And wisdom sucks.

It makes you miss being young.

[KelVarnson]

Ah, Mr. Hairless, who in another thread, when I apparently got a little uppity, wrote:

Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary, Kel: in another week you'll have been a member of this forum for a whole two months.

Crotchety? You be the judge...

[bluestarlizzard]

arfingreebly,
i beg to differ, my dad is 55 years old and is cool as sh^*! he listins to new rock 'n' roll just as much as he listins to the classics. he's more up on pop culture then me (and i'm a 23 year old GIRL) he wears leather coats and kangle hats, and wouldn't be caught dead in dockers and a polo shirt.
*grin* but then again, my dad was a mod, a glitter rocker and a punk all before he got out of his twentys, so i guess he's used to keeping up with the times!

[Wheeler44]

Wheeler 44, himself a middle aged person, looks left at the gang of young purple haired, machinegun wannabe totin', fast shootin', spray and prayin' punks and then looks left at the old, crotchety, fat dudes with imitation SWAT ball caps asleep at the benchrests with drool running out of their mouths and says " can't we all just get along?"

[ArfinGreebly]

Ah, bluestarlizzard, you see only what I write, not what I mean.

I must confess I sometimes get obtuse when I write.

I'm not quite as skilled as Robert.

It's easy for people to take what I write at face value and fail to read it from my side of the screen.

That's okay.

My kids tell me I'm "old" too.

But then, they don't really dig Jethro Tull, Boston, and Thin Lizzy.

And they think "eclectic" is something that's fixed by a Heimlich Maneuver.

*Sigh*

You only think you differ with me.

Stick around.

I may be old, but that doesn't mean I have to be mature.

:D

[bluestarlizzard]

well, bosten sucks, so yeah...
but not liking jethro tull, SACRILIGE!
by the way, i'm currently listining to king crimson. *grin* we "young punks" are not as obtuse as you think we may be!

[Red Dragon]

ah, so its kinda the whole "we all get old but we don't have to grow up" kind of thing?

[akodo]

those guys were Aholes.

however, that is the price of freedom.

[mgregg85]

I find the best way to deal with these types of people in all situations is to just stare right over the top of their head and agree with whatever they say by saying "yup" and continuing on with what your doing as if they aren't even there.

[AZ_Rebel]

I know you think that the original poster "doesn't imply he hates old guys per se, but old guys who interfere with him," but that's not what he said and it's not what anyone else thinks he said--not even you. You're just funning me. The original poster didn't say that he dislikes "anyone who - illegitimately and in an uncivilized manner - interferes with" his shooting. He specified that it was "two old farts." They weren't even just "old guys" or "old people" but "old farts".

As usual, RobertHairless nails what has become the side issue of this thread.

Anyway, thats MOST of why I hate old guys (emphasis added) who interfere with other peoples' shooting so much.

This statement prompted my reply and that of others. Saying its OK because other threads have picked on "Young P***s" is wrong. It not ok to introduce discrimination into a public forum like this - whether to "Young P***s" or "Old F***s" - just because someone else has done it previously. We call this Forum The High Road... let's try to keep it that way. As I said in my initial reply, I regret that the OP had a bad experience but - if it happened the way he described it - was not because these people were older than him or his friends. These people would have been just as offensive and obtrusive at any age.

3. About to earn a world of hurt if they don't piss off.

Dang... still shaking my head at that statement!

[ArfinGreebly]

Case some of you missed it in all the chaff about "why it's bad to be old" this thread started about discussing people impersonating WCOs to intimidate people whose activities they disliked.

So, to stay in the groove, let's see if we can locate some other "dudes pretending to have authority in order to impose their will" incidents.

Let us not continue to opine on age discrimination either way.

That way I can leave the thread open.

Thanks.

[gunsmith]

Don't forget the T shirts!

[gunsmith]

Just today a fellow cab driver tried to tell me how it is illegal
for commercial drivers to carry guns or knives because of "federal law"
I told him to find that law and show it to me, he then said it is in
that little green book that truckers have so I told him
if you can prove it by showing me the code or statue I will give you ten dollars.
He shut up....I guess he don't need ten bucks.:D

[Grizzly Adams]

BoyScout, enuff said from me other than that you can see from my signature that I am retired military and have run into my share of people that seem to have a problem with anything that has to do with the military community, (ref: "You military folks aren't allowed to be here on the weekends, thats civilian time to shoot.") which may be the case here. Anyway good luck on your career if that's what you intend and maybe if you are ever around Montgomery, AL I'll invite you out to my farm and I'll guarantee not "old fart" will mouth off to you. God Bless.

Buel Adams

[Ithaca37]

We also have rules which stipulate that all actions must be open when not in uses (if not holstered). If I see someone with a closed action, I _will_ correct them.
What about an AK? No bolt hold open, therefore no open action possible. The rule sounds good, but would exclude an AK. I don't belong to a range, is this a common rule? If so, how does anybody use an AK at a range?

[xjchief]

So leaving brass behind is okay if everyone else does it? How about scooping up a bunch of brass that other lazy litterbugs leave behind and leaving the area cleaner than when you arrived? I'm surprised that you aren't taught that as part of your training considering the school you attend.

My dad taught me to return things I used to their original state or better. That doesn't just include filling up a car I've borrowed with gas before returning it or wiping down and cleaning a tool someone trusted me with, it includes policing up the area when I go shooting. (BTW he is an old guy):p

[Correia]

At least some of this forum's moderators are over the hill too, and at least a couple of them seem kind of crotchety as well (closing threads and pushing people around and all that) so we can jump them and take away the forum. Good luck with that! :D


Old... young... I just hate stupid people.

Guys, please, enough of the complaining about people's ages. You can't lump giant groups of people together and expect them to act the same. It doesn't work when the antis do it to us either.

[RPCVYemen]

My dad taught me to return things I used to their original state or better. That doesn't just include filling up a car I've borrowed with gas before returning it or wiping down and cleaning a tool someone trusted me with, it includes policing up the area when I go shooting.

That's funny - my dad taught me the exact same thing. He told us it was a "code of the West" kind of a thing, "Always leave a campsite cleaner than the way you found it. And always leave enough wood for the next man's first fire. When you are camping in the mountains, that just what you do. It's neighborly."

I am still not convinced we have the whole story from the original poster. I think he's telling us everything he knows - he's telling the truth, but I'm not sure he has the whole story.

If someone walked into the ranges I shoot at and didn't know that the ranges were administered by local clubs, they would report exactly the behavior that the original poster's reported - old guy with club insignia's on hats or shirts who are very particular about picking up your brass, and shooting positions.

They are particularly concerned about shooting from prone positions - they want the path of the bullet to be parallel to the ground. In other words, they want the center of the target to be at the same height as the muzzle of the weapon being fired. That's part of ensuring that bullets don't go over berm/backstop. So if you are shooting from a standing position, and move to a prone position you must move the target down and vice versa.

So we have and odd situation. When you factor out the attitude of the first poster, it sounds exactly like the kind of range I shoot at - people dressed the way he describes the "old guys" being dressed, people saying the things he describes the "old guys" saying. In general description and in exact detail, what the OP described is what I see when I go to a public range administered/policed by a private gun club.

There are two explanations - either a couple of old coots decided for no apparent reason to commit a felony (impersonating a federal officer) by dressing exactly how they would dress and saying exactly what they would say if they were members of a local club administering the range, or they were in fact members of a local club administering the range. Seems sort of odd to me.

For an example of a private club administering a state/federal range military for civilians, see the following:

http://www.northstateshootingclub.com/Frames/Frame_Info.htm

For an example of a private club administering a county range for civilian use, see the following:

http://www.wakegov.com/firingrange/default.htm

So we either have two old coots committing a felony for no apparent gain, or we have two older gentlemen acting legally in what is a pretty common arrangement.

How can we determine the truth? The next time the range has a volunteer cleanup, maybe the OP and his buddy should go there, and see if they see the old coots.

Mike

[CleverNickname]

What about an AK? No bolt hold open, therefore no open action possible. The rule sounds good, but would exclude an AK. I don't belong to a range, is this a common rule? If so, how does anybody use an AK at a range?
Get a chamber flag or just use a piece of brass to hold the bolt open.