So much for any last lingering threads of respect I had for Charles Moose...


Mike Irwin
July 17, 2003, 03:09 PM
From the Washington (Com)Post today...

Former Montgomery County police chief Charles A. Moose and relatives of Washington area sniper victims helped a team of seasoned gun-control advocates launch a lobbying campaign yesterday on Capitol Hill to defeat a bill that would help shield the firearms industry from lawsuits.

Moose and the victims' relatives, along with Montgomery County Executive Douglas M. Duncan (D), said they are taking their strong emotions about the October sniper shootings and investing them in the pitched political battle unfolding over gun liability legislation.

"My brother is gone, and there's nothing I can do about that," said Victoria Snider, whose brother, James L. "Sonny" Buchanan Jr., was slain Oct. 3 as he mowed a lawn in White Flint. "But I am asking Congress, 'Please do not take away my rights.' "

The liability legislation, which would protect the gun industry from ongoing and future lawsuits, recently passed the House and is pending in the Senate, where 54 members have voiced support.

The firearms industry calls the legislation a prudent way to prevent manufacturers from being sued each time a criminal uses one of their weapons. Some gunmakers and distributors, facing numerous lawsuits nationally from victims and gun control groups, say jury verdicts and legal expenses could cost them hundreds of millions of dollars if they persist.

Opponents of the measure say it would put gunmakers and dealers in the unique position of being able to operate without fear of lawsuits and eliminate a motive to make weapons safer.

If the bill passes, sniper victims and their families said yesterday that one lawsuit derailed will be their own. Several victims' relatives are suing Bushmaster Firearms Inc., the Maine-based manufacturer of the XM-15 rifle used in the sniper attacks, and Bull's Eye Shooter Supply, the Tacoma, Wash., gun shop where the suspects allegedly got the rifle.

"If Congress passes this bill, I will never have the chance to make my case to a jury," said Rupinder Oberoi, who was shot and wounded in September, allegedly by the snipers, while locking up the Silver Spring beer-and-wine shop where he worked.

James Ballenger III, whose wife was shot to death outside a Baton Rouge, La., beauty store, also allegedly by the one of the sniper suspects, said passage of the measure would be a travesty. "My wife was killed for nothing. My children have to suffer without their mother," Ballenger said. "I want the people of the Senate to know that these people need to be responsible for what they sell."

Such emotional appeals are likely to play a significant role in a national movement, being launched by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, to defeat the bill. Michael Barnes, president of the gun control group, said that while the firearms industry can spend millions to lobby its cause, his group's strength is in the stories of gun victims. The campaign, he said, will include rallies and events across the country, with an emphasis on states that are home to undecided senators.

Lawmakers have credited the measure's unexpected success to the growing political clout of the National Rifle Association and the country's gun advocates.

Some members of Congress have said privately that they believe they need to vote yes on the measure to keep the gun industry from organizing voter revolts in their home districts.

Whether the emotional appeals by victims will help counter that political strength is unclear. Jim Purtilo, who edits a newsletter for gun enthusiasts in Maryland, said he is not intimidated by the effort. "The proponents of stronger restrictions are always willing to wave the bloody shirt," he said. "It's a sign of how weak their intellectual arguments are."

Moose, who recently left the Montgomery police department to finish writing a book about the sniper shootings, said the stories recounted by victims of gun violence at yesterday's news conference should provide a powerful reminder to the senators.

"I hope the people of the Senate understand that these are real people, real Americans," Moose said. "If you're going to pass laws that affect them, please listen to what they have to say."

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July 17, 2003, 03:12 PM
In his quest for find the loner white gun nut NRA member who was doing all the shootings, he gave me a little taste of what it's like to be on the receiving end of racial profiling. And he offered us a good case-in-point about how well that sort of thing works.

July 17, 2003, 03:13 PM
You had lingering respect for 'Da Moose, Mike? Where'd you pick that up? You might want to get shots for the future...:D

TFL Survivor

July 17, 2003, 03:14 PM
As for the ex-chief's future, Moose said he and Sandy had yet to make any career decisions.

"If the decision is to walk away from a law enforcement career, there are certainly other things to do, other challenges," he said. "That is frightening and challenging and wonderful, all at the same time."

That would include speeches at $20,000 to $30,000 per appearance, according to information posted on the Web site of Keppler Associates, a speakers bureau in Arlington, Va., touting that Keppler exclusively represents the ex-chief.

July 17, 2003, 03:28 PM
I don't see anyone paying even 20 - 30 BUCKS to hear the 'chief' ramble....

July 17, 2003, 03:31 PM
I am always amazed how the media and the public will make a hero out of someone who in truth probably can't get to work on time.

July 17, 2003, 03:48 PM
$.20-$.30 is still too much. I might go if they paid ME $20-30K to listen.

July 17, 2003, 03:48 PM
Antiques! Let us have antiques!!

July 17, 2003, 03:53 PM
How much is "Elvis On Velvet" nowadays?:neener:

July 17, 2003, 04:48 PM
Aw, come on.

Isn't it worth 30K to hear eubonics in action?

Mike Irwin
July 17, 2003, 05:01 PM
"Isn't it worth 30K to hear eubonics in action?"

No, but it might be priceless if you spelled EBONICS correctly. :neener:

Or was that a case of whitelling (white spelling)?

July 17, 2003, 05:11 PM
Na, it's an non minority grunt engineer trying to write, and everybody knows we can't do that!

Or type either...

July 17, 2003, 06:06 PM
consider this a 20K $ gift to all of you...
Video from the Press Conference:
(Apple Quicktime Required)

* Charles Moose, Cpl. David Mitchell, Doug Duncan (4:34, 6 MB)

July 17, 2003, 06:34 PM
Amen, Cosmoline. Been there, done that.

However, I think once the FBI, BATF, MSP and others got involved, Moose was not really in charge of the investigation. If you remember, there was an endless supply of talking heads in the media constanting speculating that the sniper/s were youngish white male/s, familiar with firearms, and probably had military experience.

There real problem is that LE had several other reports from witnesses that there was a dark colored sedan seen immediately leaving the area of the shootings, and in some cases specifying black, male occupants. My impression is that these witness reports were totally ignored. One report went all the way back to around September in the earlier, deli sniper attack in PG County.

In fact, D.C. Metro Police Chief Ramsey was on the radio one day discounting the report of a dark colored Chevy Caprice seen leaving the area of the only D.C. sniper shooting. Nine at night, and Chevy lights were out and it was moving. This is in the immediate vicinity of the Silver Spring shooting.

Chief Ramsey said they did not announce that information to the public because they did not want to "confuse" the public, who should be on the lookout for a white van and white guys only.

July 17, 2003, 06:46 PM
If you've got the time, this is a lengthy (but clear) detailing of Moose's activities. Not flattering.

July 17, 2003, 06:52 PM
I might go if they paid ME $20-30K to listen.

Maybe to sit and pretend to listen. :)

July 17, 2003, 08:59 PM
When the guy burst on the scene I was more than willing to give him a chance. Bad situation for ANYONE to be in.

Then I learned of his professional history and his "sponsors" throughout his career. I became highly suspicious.

Then I learned he had the public (the self-same public being terrorized) chasing snipes. It was clear the guy had greater allegience to a politically correct ideology than the lives of those under his responsibility.

Respect level = 0.

I still want to see a time line laying out how many people died between the time he knew the perps weren't the AWM's and when the BG's were caught. I want him held accountable.

July 17, 2003, 09:19 PM
Most of his - so called ''work'' on the case was a total and unmitigated joke ..... as in ''sick'' joke. It was embarassing to watch and equally sickening was the apparent media ''back up'' .... ignoring it seemed all the totally useless efforts he employed.

He should be held accountable for certain directions the investigation took ...... it was ham fisted and inexcusable.

July 18, 2003, 03:29 AM
During the whole sniper incidents Moose seemed like he was a puppet. The FBI seemed to be doing the work but wanted to stay in the background. Moose doesn't seem very bright, I doubt as a Policeman that he could catch a cold.

July 18, 2003, 06:36 AM
Moose doesn't seem very bright, I doubt as a Policeman that he could catch a cold.

He met the criteria for the job that was most important to the Montgomery County Council and County Exec. Doug Duncan, the quantity of melanin pigment in his skin.

Tropical Z
July 18, 2003, 12:44 PM
I knew Moose was a snake from day one!:barf:

July 18, 2003, 01:28 PM
One does it to help protect society and the other does it to help themselves.

Remember Joseph McNamara from the assorted gun bans of the 80s? Former police chief of San Jose who ordered his officers to appear in uniform and while on the job at anti-gun rallies and democratic photo-ops?

Thanks to his efforts on behalf of the ruling elite, he is now...
Joseph D. McNamara was appointed a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, in 1991. He was chief of police for the city of San Jose, California, for fifteen years. He is recognized as an expert in criminal justice, police technology and management systems, crime prevention, and international drug control policies.

McNamara has served as lecturer and adjunct professor at five different colleges and has lectured at many of the nation's top universities, including Harvard, Stanford, and the University of California at Berkeley. In 1980, he was appointed by the U. S. attorney general to the advisory board of the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

He has been a commentator for National Public Broadcasting radio and has appeared on Meet the Press, Good Morning America, the Today Show, CBS Morning News, the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, Crossfire, Nightline, Oprah, Donahue, Larry King Live, Sixty Minutes, and other programs.

He has been a consultant for the United States Department of Justice, State Department, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and some of the nation's largest corporations. Over the past decade, McNamara has organized four conferences at the Hoover Institution, attended by police chiefs and command officers, focusing on U. S. drug control policies.

McNamara has written five books, including three national best-selling detective novels and a respected crime prevention text. He has published articles in the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, the Kansas City Star, Newsday, Harper's, Cosmopolitan, National Review, USA Today, the San Francisco Chronicle, the San Jose Mercury News, and other publications. In addition, McNamara is sought as a lecturer throughout the country.

Moose thinks he has done his time on behalf of the ruling elite and now seeks his rewards.

July 18, 2003, 02:04 PM
do you think he'll really command that kind of pay for speeches? i just.. just can't imagine anyone paying for moosey to show up.... maybe to stay away, though...

July 18, 2003, 03:35 PM
Not knowing anything about Chief Moose before the shootings started, I was willing to give him the benefit of any reasonable doubt.

After the interview with the "Do Dat" statements, Chief Moose[brain] had less than zero credibility with me.

July 18, 2003, 05:08 PM
I lost all respect for the man when I read on World Net Daily that he was so incompetent in his prior job as sherriff [Oregon?] that they ran him out of town!

July 18, 2003, 10:19 PM

Yup. Portland, to be exact. He was a pompous, pandering, smarmy j***a** here, too.

July 18, 2003, 10:57 PM
they'd promote him to LtCol or higher in the Air Guard. That would cheapen the rank for other deserving field grade officers...

July 19, 2003, 02:26 AM
"But I am asking Congress, 'Please do not take away my rights.' "


how about, "don't you dare?"

July 19, 2003, 12:12 PM
"I want the people of the Senate to know that these people need to be responsible for what they sell."


Just like you should be able to go after Anheuser-Busch and/or Seagram's for the damage drunks do, and throw in Ford/GM/Daimler-Crysler if they do it in a car. Or any other manufacturer of any product that is mis-used in a crimanl manner. Forget personal responsibility. Are these people Brittish?:barf: :barf: :barf: :fire: :fire: :fire:

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