10 MM Dream Gun!


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R&J
November 15, 2007, 08:15 PM
Please get in line to drool...

http://gunsmagazine.com:80/F0108.html

Another glowing testimony for 10 mm...

--Ray

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98C5
November 15, 2007, 08:18 PM
Here ya go Ray....

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85078985

hankdatank1362
November 15, 2007, 08:18 PM
Dude, I am diggin' that.

A double stack would be cool too.

Deacon Blues
November 15, 2007, 09:06 PM
What a beast! That would get some serious attention at the range...

One downside: the light rail tempts you to put something on the gun that will completely ruin the aesthetics. OTOH, the rail looks good by itself, a Sig-like quality I'd say.

TwitchALot
November 15, 2007, 09:29 PM
10mm 1911? Dare I ask how much (no, not for the expensive ammo)? :o

98C5
November 15, 2007, 09:34 PM
Fusion 10mm Longslide, $1295

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/VinnyT73/pix1187974062.jpg

TwitchALot
November 15, 2007, 09:47 PM
Yeah. Maybe in a decade or so. -_-'

renegade1alpha
November 15, 2007, 10:00 PM
I bought one of the first Colt Delta Elite's back in 1988 after I returned from overseas with the Marine Corps. I read about that pistol for months and drooled at the thought of owning one. So I saved my pennies from my meager E-3/Lance Corporal pay and bought mine at the Del Mar Gun show in San Diego (Sadly California has gone to hell in the way of handgun ownership since then) for the price of $430, brand new in the box! After waiting the 15 days required I picked up my gun from the dealer and went immediately to the range. I still own that gun and it has been a fantastic shooter. I have not taken any deer with it but I plan on taking a pig with it soon. Anyone that can should own a handgun in this caliber.

"Life is tough. Its even tougher if you're stupid!" -John Wayne

pinotguy
November 15, 2007, 10:08 PM
There's a lot I like about that pistol but those "tacti-cool" features ultimately detract from it. I have a vision of what a Longslide 1911 in 10mm should be and it's not that. I do applaud Springfield for, at least, experimenting with the 10mm cartridge. I view any new gun in 10mm as a good thing. S&W re-introducing the 610 is another example.

Clean97GTI
November 15, 2007, 10:49 PM
now if we could just convince Ruger to give us a 10mm P-series or a 10mm CZ97, I think we could see a revival in the popularity of a great round.

Deer Hunter
November 15, 2007, 10:59 PM
Dan Wesson makes a 1911 in 10mm. One of the only 1911s I've ever thought about purchasing.

jfh
November 15, 2007, 10:59 PM
Inspired, I think my the limited availability of the Dan Wessons, the Kimber Stainless Target II, and the EAA Witnesses.

They show up sporadically, but they sell--if the factories / importers produced more, I'd bet they would sell every one.

You can get a standard EAA Witness in 10mm for under $450--and you could even get a top-end only with an extra mag or two for under $300.00. The EAA Elite Match version is very intermittent, but the .40 Short & Weak shows up, so all it would take is a reamed cylinder and maybe new mags--at $600.00 or under, probably the steal of current 10mms. The DWs run, IIRC, about $850, and the Kimber is now about $1000.00.

I bought the Kimber this summer on an impulse buy, and am thoroughly pleased with it--3 or less" at 50 yards is entirely feasible with the right load. The Kimber makes my 4th one--including the Glock 20 that blew up, and the 1006 I just sold. The original one is a SA Omega from 1989--6", both ported and unported barrels.

The 1911 chassis in 10 is really a dream gun, IMO.

Jim H.

Crunker1337
November 15, 2007, 11:24 PM
I wish it was a bit cheaper. I love the black version.
The Fusion gun looks meh okay. I think it needs a compensator, I don't like the way the slide tapers down towards the forend.

If you want to go double-stack 10mm Longslide, short of making your own pistol from scratch, your only choice is SVI.

Majic
November 15, 2007, 11:32 PM
Way too much crap for me. I thought they had gave up building race guns?

Landric
November 15, 2007, 11:52 PM
I'd be a lot more interested in a 10mm M&P or 1066TSW. Another 1911, Yawn.

O.S.O.K.
November 15, 2007, 11:52 PM
The 10 mm is a good cartridge for those enamoured specifically with autoloaders.

And, its really just a slightly larger diameter .357 magnum.

All the fuss over it being a "great hunting cartridge" is BS in my opinion.

It's no better than a 180 grain bullet out of the .357 Mag revolver.

I'd rather hunt with a 45 ACP - loaded with 250 grain hard cast bullets - they will do a better job than either the .357 or 10 mm.

Really.

So, go ahead and spend your hard earned money on one if you want. :eek:

Halo is for Kids
November 16, 2007, 12:02 AM
Gross :barf:
http://gunsmagazine.com/Ftr0108/01.jpg

Nice :D
http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/085078000/85078985/pix1187974062.jpg

R&J
November 16, 2007, 12:37 AM
"Here ya go Ray...."

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85078985

*****

An impressive piece as well, but the Springfield just dazzles me, and I'm a Glock guy! :eek:

--Ray

Onmilo
November 16, 2007, 12:39 AM
I am working on getting a 10mm Glock longslide together right now.

R&J
November 16, 2007, 01:10 AM
1) The 10 mm is a good cartridge for those enamoured specifically with autoloaders.

2) All the fuss over it being a "great hunting cartridge" is BS in my opinion.

3) It's no better than a 180 grain bullet out of the .357 Mag revolver.

4) I'd rather hunt with a 45 ACP - loaded with 250 grain hard cast bullets - they will do a better job than either the .357 or 10 mm.

*****

1) You're in the right forum! :D

2) It's somewhat newly recognized, is all! :)

3) Except with a G20, say, there's sixteen of those little jewels on tap! :p

4) Hmm. Got some kind of numbers to convince us of that? I know 230 gr .45 Super can parallel some 10 mm loads.

Here's some posted stats...

Lets look at Double Tap .357 Magnum & 10 mm:

1) .357 Magnum, 1600 fps, 710 ft. lbs., 125 gr Gold Dot

2) 10 mm, 1600 fps, 767 ft. lbs., 135 gr Nosler

3) .357 Magnum, 1400 fps, 688 ft. lbs., 158 gr Gold Dot

4) 10mm, 1475 fps, 750 ft. lbs, 155 gr Gold Dot

5) .357 Magnum, 1200 fps, 640 ft. lbs., 200 gr Hardcast

6) 10mm, 1300 fps, 750 ft. lbs., 200 gr Hardcast

I'd say the 10 mm shows a consistent, slight superiority, but okay, I agree.

Here's how DT's heaviest .45 ACP checks out:

.45ACP, 1010 fps, 521 ft. lbs., 230 gr Gold Dot

Hmm. :scrutiny:

Lets look at Buffalo Bore .45 Super

185 Gr Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 694 ft. lbs.

200 Gr Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 639 ft. lbs.

230 Gr Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps
Muzzle Energy: 618 ft. lbs.

230 Gr Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps
Muzzle Energy: 618 ft. lbs.

Impressive, but not superior to 10 mm. I know you said 250 gr... But still...

I also know there's other stuff to look at, like gelatin, sectional density, bullet design, etc.

But still... :rolleyes:

--Ray

R&J
November 16, 2007, 01:17 AM
Onmilo says, "I am working on getting a 10mm Glock longslide together right now."

*****

Cool!

On what kind of platform?

I love my Glock 21 .45 ACP, and it does a respectable job of shooting 10 mm with a KKM Conversio Barrel. But I'd really like a Long-Slide...

LWD puts together a limited number of .45 ACP/10 MM Long-Slides, early each year. They're always a sell out!

--Ray

Autolycus
November 16, 2007, 01:24 AM
I like the Glock 20 myself. I would like an HK USP version. Or just HK to design an HK 10.

roscoe
November 16, 2007, 03:28 AM
If a major gun manufacturer other than Glock gets into the 10mm market, we are in good shape.

Zoogster
November 16, 2007, 03:41 AM
Impressive, but not superior to 10 mm. I know you said 250 gr... But still...

I also know there's other stuff to look at, like gelatin, sectional density, bullet design, etc.

But still...
Lets not forget that excellent flat trajectory either. Where you aim is where you hit for a much longer distance. That makes taking a quick shot from a distance much easier. Retained energy at range is also much better.
Penetration is also very different.

tantrix
November 16, 2007, 04:44 AM
The 10 mm is a good cartridge for those enamoured specifically with autoloaders.

And, its really just a slightly larger diameter .357 magnum.

All the fuss over it being a "great hunting cartridge" is BS in my opinion.

It's no better than a 180 grain bullet out of the .357 Mag revolver.

I'd rather hunt with a 45 ACP - loaded with 250 grain hard cast bullets - they will do a better job than either the .357 or 10 mm.

Really.

So, go ahead and spend your hard earned money on one if you want.

I like the 10mm cartridge and all, but I'd have to agree. When I use a handgun to hunt, it's a real hunting handgun. A Super Redhawk 9.5" in .44 Mag. It spits a 340gr bullet at over 1600fps. About the heaviest 10mm load will be a 230gr at around 1100fps. No comparison.

Clean97GTI
November 16, 2007, 07:13 AM
tantrix, what are you agreeing with? 10mm shows a definite superiority over the fat, pokey .45acp. The 10mm looks even nicer out of a longer barrel. Both were originally designed to stop humans.

Sure the .44 mag is a monster of a cartridge, but thats really a whole different league you're getting into. Your Redhawk is basically serving as a rifle replacement for some game where the 10mm can accompany you hunting on the weekend and then watch over you during the work week.

Storm
November 16, 2007, 07:42 AM
Just give me a Steyr L10A1 and I'll be happy.

Onmilo
November 16, 2007, 10:14 AM
R&J asks me what platform for the 10mm Glock.
Right now a standard Glock 20 frame assembly and the plan, if I can get the guy to get up and sell it to me, a Caspian 6" slide.
If he doesn't come through I am going for a Lone Wolf slide if he ever gets them out.
6" Bar-Sto barrel I have had for some time now and Bomar sights.
3.5 connector with a NY-1 trigger spring, if you don't understand why don't ask, I don't feel like explaining it.:)

the pistolero
November 16, 2007, 10:48 AM
Dan Wesson makes a 1911 in 10mm. One of the only 1911s I've ever thought about purchasing.
I just bought one of those. A shade over $900 out the door, it comes highly recommended.
As for hunting with a .45acp, I would think that cartridge loaded to hunting velocity would be courting disaster due to the low pressures the cartridge was designed for, no?

Onmilo
November 16, 2007, 01:10 PM
There was only one thing the .45 auto was designed for hunting and, for the most part, they aren't fur bearing critters.
Makes a dandy target round too!:)

Harley Quinn
November 16, 2007, 01:21 PM
I was very seriously considering a Desert Eagle in 357 or 44 and 50. But I went the Glock route with all the various barrels.

The 10mm in 6" or the 400 Corbon is a nice addition to my arsenal. Which I now have. The heavy hitters today are so much more powerful it seems hard to conceive a few decades ago we were happy with the puny 357:rolleyes:

The revolver seems to be the favorite when you get into the 454 or 460 and those are very expensive for a defense gun and not really needed. The 10mm for home defense is a heck of a round.

Glock does me just fine, those polished grips shown in the pictures are great for looks, but a little sweat and you'll wish you had a good grip.

I know some who sweat just holding them and not even shooting them:neener:

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 16, 2007, 01:29 PM
It's pretty cool looking, but let's look at it's purposes:

Home Defense: Yes, but for the compensator...so if you shoot an intruder in self-defense, you're going to be deaf IN ADDITION to the other hassles of cleanup, psych trauma, and legal bills? Deafness is the last problem on earth you'll need in that situation. Not good - the compensator kills it.

Hunting: Yes, but for the compensator...you're going to get tinnitus in order to get your game? Makes no sense - the compensator kills it. I suppose if you use ear protection, it'd be a fun hunter, although for me, just finding the game is usually challenging enough - I want a rifle when I do finally come across them...

IPSC? Yeah, I guess, except for the fact that I believe you should practice like you play, and use the same gun you are going to actually carry, so for me, that use is out as well.

Fun range gun and braggin rights toy? Yes! :)

Onmilo
November 16, 2007, 01:50 PM
One of these days Illinois is going to elect legislators with common sense who will allow legal CCW, hunting deer with semi automatic handguns and pistol cartridge rifles and my G20 longslide will be waiting,,,,,,,,:evil:

MASTEROFMALICE
November 16, 2007, 02:22 PM
Were you to feel so compelled, and could convince someone to build it, having a 7" barrel made would:

a) look good
b) give additional velocity (bear in mind that 1" extra is a 16% increase)
c) give you the options of either threading it for a compensator or have someone cut a compensator into it
d) add almost no noticeable bulk in exchange for these benefits

R&J asks me what platform for the 10mm Glock.
Right now a standard Glock 20 frame assembly and the plan, if I can get the guy to get up and sell it to me, a Caspian 6" slide.
If he doesn't come through I am going for a Lone Wolf slide if he ever gets them out.
6" Bar-Sto barrel I have had for some time now and Bomar sights.
3.5 connector with a NY-1 trigger spring, if you don't understand why don't ask, I don't feel like explaining it.

Crunker1337
November 16, 2007, 05:30 PM
I wonder if they would sell an uncompensated version with the same barrel extension?

Walkalong
November 16, 2007, 07:05 PM
Pretty cool, but strange to have a light rail on a hunting gun.

ndh87
November 16, 2007, 07:07 PM
ooooh, i want one

tantrix
November 17, 2007, 06:43 AM
tantrix, what are you agreeing with? 10mm shows a definite superiority over the fat, pokey .45acp. The 10mm looks even nicer out of a longer barrel. Both were originally designed to stop humans.

Sure the .44 mag is a monster of a cartridge, but thats really a whole different league you're getting into. Your Redhawk is basically serving as a rifle replacement for some game where the 10mm can accompany you hunting on the weekend and then watch over you during the work week.

I'm simply agreeing with O.S.O.K. that the 10mm is a little over-hyped as a hunting platform. I also wouldn't go so far as to say the 10mm shows "a definite superiority" over the .45ACP. Some believe it, but most know better. Simply put, no matter how many blocks of ballistic gel you go through, they are both very capable of incapacitating a person. What irritates me the most is some of the same people who worship at the altar of 10mm look down on the .357 even though the old 125gr .357 load has long been one of the most proven man-stoppers ever.


As another person in this thread has already mentioned...that particular gun in the link is more of a racegun than a carry weapon. In regards to my Redhawk, I sometimes carry it in a shoulder rig along with my rifle so I wouldn't exactly call it a replacement. Walking around with 6 rounds of 340gr/1600fps .44 Mag on tap doesn't make me wish I left the house with a 10mm instead, that's for sure.

varoadking
November 17, 2007, 08:07 AM
10 MM Dream Gun!

Had my dream come true last weekend when I found 1 of the 151 of these ever made...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/sw1046.jpg

Not my picture - borrowed it - thanks to whomever. Mine is LNIB...

Paid $625 and have already been offered $1,500 for it.

I think I'll keep it...

shooter1
November 17, 2007, 08:57 AM
I have owned a couple of 10mm pistols, and still own one, an EAA Witness in wonder finish. It is one of the most pratical platforms now available in 10mm, IMO. Owned a Delta Elite, great pistol, loved it, don't know how I let it slip away! Owned a Glock 20, which is probably the best choice for anyone who just has to have a hicap 10mm. You don't need a long slide for it, just pop in the 6" barrel and go to work! The Springfield long slide will no doubt appeal to a few people, but I'm betting even fewer will buy it. Lots of choices out there for 10mm fans, Kimber, Dan Wesson, EAA, Glock, maybe STI/SVI, and now Springfield. There are probably others, not to mention there are still a bunch of S&W 10mms and Colt Delta Elites floating around out there. There are plenty of choices coming in at well under the $1300 asking price of the Fusion! The 10mm would not be my first choice as a hunting round, but would serve the purpose if that's all I had, within the limitations of the cartridge, of course. It's all in what we want, nothing to do with what we need.:)
str1

SHOOT1SAM
November 17, 2007, 11:10 AM
The cow moose I took a couple of weeks ago with my S&W 1086 in 10mm didn't seem to know it was an inferior round.

Sam

eldon519
November 17, 2007, 01:31 PM
I'd agree .45 ACP is still the better hunting cartridge. If you're a revolver fan, John Linebaugh's favorite deer load is a 260-grain Keith around 900 fps. He's had it shoot end-to-end on deer. I'm aware of .45 ACP data that lists 250-grain bullets at 900 fps or 260-grain bullets at 850 fps, both are standard pressure.

Consider that penetration and the fact that a non-expanded .45 bullet is about the same size as 30% expanded 10mm, it's a pretty formidable load. 10mm is no joke, but I'd have to disagree that it's superior to .45.

Peter M. Eick
November 19, 2007, 09:38 PM
My 10mm dream came true when I had Les Baer make my 10mm Heavyweight monolith, which I believe is a one of a kind.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/hwml_grips3.jpg

roscoe
November 20, 2007, 01:17 AM
Consider that penetration and the fact that a non-expanded .45 bullet is about the same size as 30% expanded 10mm, it's a pretty formidable load. 10mm is no joke, but I'd have to disagree that it's superior to .45.
There are four areas where 10mm is superior :

1. Penetration (especially with 200-230 grain hardcast load). There is really no .45 ACP equivalent to the heavy 10mm hardcast in terms of penetrating power, especially on bone.

2. It is the most versatile autoloader round available - on par with .357, really, since loads range from 135 to 230 grain.

3. Given its velocity, it is flatter shooting, which is helpful in hunting.

4. It has all this additional power and flexibility over the .45 ACP, yet it is available in a hi-cap doublestack magazine. With a Glock 20, you actually do have more overall power on tap than any .44 mag sixgun.

Frankly, if you were looking for one caliber to do it all, 10mm is as close as you can get.

Bergeron
November 20, 2007, 02:57 AM
The 10mm has a lot going for it. As a 1911-sized cartridge, the only competitor is the .45 Super, which in addition to having ammunition more expensive and rare than the 10mm, will require a spring configuration seperate from that specificed by the .45 ACP.

200+gr bullets launched at 1200 fps are the current upper limit on service sized pistols. While this level of performance can be equaled by .357 revolvers, it is more easily approached by larger caliber autoloaders. Amongst those sidearms, the 10mm offers what I consider the greatest versatility. It's cartridge capacity is superior, in both single and double stack, than the .45 ACP. +P .45ACP can approach full-power 10mm loads, but not by remaining inside SAAMI specifications. 10mm runs from 135 gr to 200+ grain loadings, an accomplishment previously offered only by revolvers.

The semiauto offers reduced recoil at the same power factors compared to the revolver, in addition to increased capacity. Granted, the 10mm will never offer the upper limit capable with full-pressure .41 Magnum ammunition. These advantages are often mainly applicable to large game hunting, and not nessicarily to self defense.

Factory pistols chambered in 10mm are currently offered by Kimber, Dan Wesson, Glock, and EAA. While lacking the availablility offered to those who prefer 9mm or .45ACP, a sufficient variety abounds to select a design satisfing all a but the most demanding of afficianados. Discountinued designs such as the Smith and Wesson autoloaders increase the variety of possible design, as do the various reworked H&K USP and ParaOrd models.

For these reasons, I chose the 10mm as my primary defensive pistol ammunition. In the autoloading 1911-platform that I prefer, I can achieve 8-10 shots per magazine, have a 200+ power factor, and have access to factory ammunition at the 200+ power factor level that I prefer for the lowest overall price of gun and ammunition.

My first pistol was a polymer framed double-stacked 9mm, my second was a steel-framed single-stack .45ACP. In no circumstance would I feel underarmed with one of these compared to any 10mm. My most recent acquisition was a 10mm. Even with only a small measured advantage that I consider it to deliver compared to "traditional" ammunition I'll always treasure that increased performance that I consider it to deliver versus its competitors.

Put another way, "Yeah, it's not the same, but the joy of life is in the differences!"

CPshooter
November 20, 2007, 03:29 AM
XD in 10mm..now there's a dream.

rmgunsmith
December 23, 2007, 09:21 PM
The 10MM is my favorite handgun cartridge. It offers several different bullet weights and loads which exceed 1200 fps muzzle velocity, and with over 600 ft Lbs muzzle energy, it packs quite a punch.

If I had to choose between 10MM and 45 Auto for hunting, I would pick the 10MM. I have fired my Delta Elite at 100 yard targets with 200 grain XTP bullets with no problem.

The Glock 20 offers 15+1 firepower in 10MM. Ted Nugent carries two G20's most of the time. He has taken wild hogs with them.

Developed in 1905 by John Browning, the 45 auto is a good man stopper proven in war time. The .45ACP also operates at a relatively low maximum chamber pressure as compared to the 10MM which helps extend service life of weapons it is fired in.

There are several excellent semi auto 10MM handguns both past and present which are discussed in this thread. However there is the Smith & Wesson model 610 revolver which will shoot both 10MM and 40 S&W using moon clips.

I have the Colt Delta ELite, which I have customized, the Glock 20 with custom features, and the Smith & Wesson 610 with smooth trigger.

The Delta Elite is easier to carry concealed then the Glock 20, and the 610 makes a good hunting revolver for woods carry. I keep the Glock 20 as my car gun, carry the Colt Delta Elite concealed, and use the Smith & Wesson 610 on Elk hunts or hiking in the woods as my favorite sidearm.

I have just ordered a Para PXT 1911 Stainless SSP in 45 ACP, as my first 45 auto handgun. The cartridge has been around a long time and deserves a spot in every gun lovers collection.

whatbrick
December 23, 2007, 10:09 PM
The 10mm is just too damn fun to shoot. I like shooting both .45 and 10, but I actually smile when sending some 10mm down-range.

@Peter M. Eick

That is a beautiful firearm...you even have the full length dust-cover that I like.

SilentArmy
December 23, 2007, 11:24 PM
All that tactical performance improving "crap" is just too much! Give me something ugly, black, with fixed sights, muzzle flipping and without any nice checkered grips to help me hold on to it and you have a "real Mans gun":rolleyes: Note to the slow... The afore mentioned is sarcasm and does not in any way reflect the actual opinion of one who CAN accept that improvement can and has been made to the original John M Browning design! If I do not buy the Dan Wesson in 10mm to go with my PM7 .45, that longslide SA is the sexiest handgun I have seen yet!

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